2009.11.25 13:00 - Patience and Practice

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Fefonz Quan. The comments are by Fefonz Quan.

    Bolonath Crystal: namaste fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: namaste bolonath :)
    Bolonath Crystal: how are you?
    Fefonz Quan: very good, and you?
    Bolonath Crystal: thanks. still working...
    Fefonz Quan: well, for me it's 11pm, :)
    Bolonath Crystal: it is 10pm here
    Fefonz Quan: wow, hope you get paid for extrar time
    Bolonath Crystal: i am preparing some oinments. at the moment i have a break, because the oinment is in the filter right now
    Fefonz Quan: what is oinment? (and filter in that matter)
    Bolonath Crystal: i'm not paid for the time, but for the oinments
    Bolonath Crystal: oinment is some healing stuff you can put on a wound for example
    Bolonath Crystal: there are still parts of plants in it, so it has to be filtered
    Fefonz Quan: Oh, i see! i thought ornaments...
    Bolonath Crystal: oh sorry, the right word should be ointment
    Fefonz Quan: so do you make your own, or make others recepies?
    Bolonath Crystal: my own
    Fefonz Quan: that sounds very ineresting.
    Fefonz Quan: interesting*
    Bolonath Crystal: it is :) a very nice part of my job
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste calvino
    Fefonz Quan: hello Calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello Fefonz and Bolo :)
    Fefonz Quan: where did you learn to make healing ointments Bolo?
    Bolonath Crystal: i have a lot to do with plants. i learned that from different sources
    Qt Core: hi all
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste qt
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Qt
    Wester Kiranov: hello everybody
    Qt Core: hi wester
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste wester and bert
    Fefonz Quan: hi Wester!
    Bertram Jacobus: hi all ...
    Fefonz Quan: hey Bert!
    Bertram Jacobus: hello again ... still phone here ... only one hand to write ...
    Fefonz Quan: do someone have something to share about the practice lately?
    Fefonz Quan: (what a lag, i type something and see it after 2 minutes)
    Fefonz Quan: (and in reverse order ;))
    Calvino Rabeni: I had a massage just befo0re this meeting. I was able to be mindful in it.
    Bertram Jacobus: i know that ... for sure (telephone finshed here) :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: message ? mindful with it ?
    Bolonath Crystal: massage
    Bertram Jacobus: oh
    Calvino Rabeni: Massage on a table with a masseuse
    Bertram Jacobus: sorry. how unaware and unprecise ! (me)
    Fefonz Quan: sounds like a great place to be mindful at
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't do them often. They create a lot of karma
    Fefonz Quan: did this mindfulness show you new things?
    Fefonz Quan: massages? why?
    Calvino Rabeni: More about recent things I am keeping in mind, from the WOK.
    Bertram Jacobus: you all wear the pab host tag. were there a common decision to do that please ?
    Fefonz Quan: not that i am aware of
    Bertram Jacobus: fine ... :-)
    Qt Core: no, i just like the host more than the other possibilities
    Fefonz Quan: can you say more calvino?
    Wester Kiranov: well i just figured out how to wear the tag :P
    Fefonz Quan: Hello SHyama
    Shyama Sheryffe: hello:)
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste shyama
    Bertram Jacobus: hi shayama
    Qt Core: hi Shyama
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    Wester Kiranov: hi shyama
    Calvino Rabeni: I noticed the skills of the masseuse and - a complicated interplay of sensation and movement (or energy) in two connected bodies
    Bertram Jacobus: yes : i´m also interested : what was from the WOK ?
    Calvino Rabeni: One intersting thing is, the skilled praticioner pushes to just a certain critical point
    Calvino Rabeni: (themes of energy and aliveness)
    Bertram Jacobus: wonderful - tyvm calvino !
    Calvino Rabeni: The critical point is where one is on the verge of resistance, but just short of that
    Fefonz Quan: not too soft and not too painful it is?
    Calvino Rabeni: because it blends movement and sensation
    Calvino Rabeni: The pratitioner must listen deeply for the response
    Calvino Rabeni: "listen" with body
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Calvino Rabeni: And at that point a creativity is contacted
    Fefonz Quan: quite rare i would say
    Calvino Rabeni: that opens possibilities about the body tensions involved
    Wester Kiranov: sounds very good
    Calvino Rabeni: This woman was experienced.
    Calvino Rabeni: THere is a difference I noticed.
    Calvino Rabeni: In some massages - maybe most - I feel the masseuse as external and cannot sense where they are
    Calvino Rabeni: SO they have me as object, or to each other
    Calvino Rabeni: but in this case of skill, it is like subjects merging in a way
    Calvino Rabeni: On a level of sensation
    Calvino Rabeni: I think she had less fear to "show up"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello (too)
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Yaku
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste yak and steve
    Calvino Rabeni: Hai, Yaku-san
    Bertram Jacobus: hey yak and steve :-)
    Bolonath Crystal: i have to go back to my cauldron. afk for a few minutes
    Qt Core: hi yak, steve
    Fefonz Quan waves to bolo
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Steve
    Fefonz Quan: I noticed something surprising about the 9-sec practice lately
    Calvino Rabeni: ?
    stevenaia Michinaga: what can be accomplished in 9 seconds always supprises me
    Fefonz Quan: I started a new job about two months ago, and a few weeks ago i put some 15 min reminder on my desktop, so i get a popup every 15 minutes
    Fefonz Quan: and i found out, maybe dissapointingly, that many times it pops up and i feel like i don't even have the time or patience for 9 sec!
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow
    Wester Kiranov: ahhh
    Fefonz Quan: as short as it sounds, it feels like it takes an effort to get 'unplagged' even for such short time
    stevenaia Michinaga: (a tax revolt)?
    Fefonz Quan: yeah hehe
    Bertram Jacobus: no PATIENCE for 9 seconds ! (?) - with me it is ... i think, it would not be necessairy, i would be aware anyway *blush a bit* - i meditate longer periods mostly every day and so on ... hm -
    Calvino Rabeni: I feel it is just the doing , not how long the period, that is difficult
    Wester Kiranov: the willingness to shoot a little hole in what you are doing
    Wol Euler: hello everyone
    Wester Kiranov: hi wol
    Bolonath Crystal: back
    Bertram Jacobus: hey wol ! ... :-)
    Qt Core: i see something like that when i watch random youtume videos, if it does not start in a few (less than 10) sec i change video
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste wol :)
    Bertram Jacobus: and re bolo :-)
    Bolonath Crystal: thx
    Fefonz Quan: yes, i meditate too for longer periods, but tha's what i am trying to point out here - it is much easier to take one hour of meditation in a silient corner at home on a cushin, that incorporat even 9 seconds into 'regular' daily activity
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Wl!
    Qt Core: hi wol
    Wol Euler smiles and waves
    Bertram Jacobus: interesting fef. i have sometimes the impression, these many short periods could drive me crazy ... hm -
    Calvino Rabeni: In the longer sit, does it take a while to get to a "no mind", and is that consistent?
    Calvino Rabeni: FOr me, yes to both.
    Fefonz Quan: i still don't know Calvino :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm thinking there is a scaling phenomenon.
    Fefonz Quan: fefonz's mind still didn't find the no-mind
    Calvino Rabeni: One is more patient in a theater, watching a movie, than on Youtube
    Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps it depends on the size
    Fefonz Quan: size of what? :)
    Bolonath Crystal: of the entrance fees ;)
    Wester Kiranov: :D
    Calvino Rabeni: length of the time period, and the physical size of the space
    Fefonz Quan: there is some quality for long sessions, but i found that the hard part is *getting8 to do it, or starting
    Qt Core: maybe i just got some kind of excited state doing youtube channel surfing and can't wait that short time for another "dose"
    Wester Kiranov: well that would explain that getting started 4 times an hour is more diffcult than once a day
    Bertram Jacobus: hi arabella ! ... :-)
    Bolonath Crystal: namaste ara
    arabella Ella: Hiya!
    Wester Kiranov: hi ara
    Wol Euler nods to Wester
    Qt Core: hi ara
    Fefonz Quan: yes Qt, one of the major curses of our time is the lost of our ability to stay and wait patiently
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Arabella
    Wol Euler: hello ara
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off, Happy Thanksgivng to those who are in the US and not Native Americianss
    Wol Euler: :)
    Bolonath Crystal: bye steve
    Wol Euler: bye steve, indulge well
    Fefonz Quan: looks like our span of intention is shrinked to a few seconds
    Wester Kiranov: bye steve
    arabella Ella: bye Steve
    Fefonz Quan: bye Steve
    Bertram Jacobus: but, fefonz - isn´t that a very old cognition generally : that starting often is the most difficult point of various actions ? ...
    Fefonz Quan: i didn't claim for originality. i would expect though that the difficulty will be reduced when the task is very short and easy.
    Calvino Rabeni: good point
    Wester Kiranov: it still has to be started, no matter how short it is
    Calvino Rabeni: but for me it feels independent of that
    Calvino Rabeni: yeah
    Calvino Rabeni: starting is starting
    Fefonz Quan: well, it is a lesson worth learning i would say
    Calvino Rabeni: for each person it could be a different quality, but still consistent for that individual
    Bertram Jacobus: great insight fef ! ty ! ...
    Wester Kiranov: but with very short things you have little excuses for not starting, so you would notice easier
    Qt Core: that's why you have to procastinatge similar works... to save on starts
    Fefonz Quan: exactly wester!
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, the excuse is not so dependent on the actual thing
    Calvino Rabeni: but more on one's attitude or character
    Calvino Rabeni: I can procrastinate small or huge things - same feeling :)
    Bolonath Crystal: sorry, gtg. rl calls
    Wol Euler: bye bolo, take care
    Bolonath Crystal: om shanti :)
    arabella Ella: bye Bolonath
    Fefonz Quan: so Fefonz can find that with infinitesimaly smaller period, he can be infinitely lazy
    Bertram Jacobus: bye bolo nath ! ... :-)
    Fefonz Quan: By Bolo!
    Wester Kiranov: it's easier to claim you don't have half an hour than that you don't have 9 secs
    Fefonz Quan nods to calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: What if the claiming is not so social - it is only to one self
    Fefonz Quan: in a way, i think we even tend to rpcrastinate small things, because we feel they are less urgent
    Calvino Rabeni: as in , excuse-making I mean
    Wester Kiranov: i meant excuses to oneself as well
    Calvino Rabeni: ok
    Fefonz Quan: infact, we need excuses to start doing something, not excuses to not-start it
    Fefonz Quan: inretia it is called
    Wester Kiranov: inertia?
    Fefonz Quan: (sorry, guess wrong english here)
    Calvino Rabeni: Interesting. BUt in physics, "a body in motion tends to remain in motion"
    Calvino Rabeni: So a perception of being in motion will endure.
    Wester Kiranov: in the same motion. or the same rest.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Fefonz Quan: exactly wester
    Calvino Rabeni: CHanging it seems to take energy, whether it is a doing or a not doing
    Wol Euler: "... unless acted upon by an external force", thus proving the mind/body separation :)
    Fefonz Quan: haha!
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, could be "will"
    Calvino Rabeni: WHich often seems like an "external force"
    Fefonz Quan: though, with separation, how can they act upon each other?
    Wester Kiranov: nooo, not that one!
    Calvino Rabeni: THe dreaded m / b problem :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wester Kiranov: rl company walking in. see you all later
    arabella Ella: bye Wester
    Wol Euler: bye wester
    Qt Core: bye wester
    Wester Kiranov: namaste
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye wester
    Wol Euler: I too must leave, things to do etc etc
    Wol Euler: goodnight all
    Fefonz Quan: by Wol, Wester
    arabella Ella: bye Wol
    Yakuzza Lethecus: night everyone
    Bertram Jacobus: good night all. i´ll leave, too ...
    Qt Core: me too, things to do... mostly sleep to sleep ;-)
    arabella Ella: nite Yaku
    Fefonz Quan: I will leave too, midnight here
    arabella Ella: nite Fef
    arabella Ella: must go too nite all
    Calvino Rabeni: I have teleconference - will join the exodus. Bye all!
    Fefonz Quan: Good night all! it's been a pleasure
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