2009.11.26 13:00 - Happy Thanksgiving to all Corvis!

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera, standing in for Storm. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Pema Pera: Hi there Eden!
--BELL--
Pema Pera: And hi Yakuzza!
Yakuzza Lethecus: good day,evening everyone
Pema Pera: I expect we'll see few people from the US this afternoon :)
Eden Haiku: Hi Pema, Yaku...
Yakuzza Lethecus: happy thanksgiving pema :)
Pema Pera: all eating, or digesting, Thansgivings dinner
Pema Pera: And indeed, anoher European! Hi Vendy!
Yakuzza Lethecus: and i also already learned that kanada had it a few weeks ago
Eden Haiku: hello Vendy!
Yakuzza Lethecus: so that was my first mistake today and i won´t repeat that eden :)
Vendy Walpole: Hello all
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello vendy
Vendy Walpole: I am so happy I was able to teleport myself finaly today
Eden Haiku: ;-)
Vendy Walpole: I was suffering with sl whole day
Pema Pera: SL has had some difficulties the last few days, it seems
Vendy Walpole: :)
Eden Haiku: I also had problems logging yesterday...
Vendy Walpole: today is my worst in sl
Pema Pera: Hi Synergy!
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello synergy
Vendy Walpole: but this time tp worked
Pema Pera: Fee free to join us!
Eden Haiku: Hi Synergy.
Vendy Walpole: Hello Synergy
Vendy Walpole: I invited my friend Synergy to attend
Wol Euler: hello invisibles
Eden Haiku: Cornuscova, nice to see you again!
Pema Pera: Nice to meet you, Synergy!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nice to see you, Eden!
Eden Haiku: Wol, how are you?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: please call me Corvi, cause it's easier.

Pema Pera: hi Wol !
Pema Pera: and hi Corvi!
Wol Euler: hello eden, vendy, pema
Vendy Walpole: Hello Wol
Vendy Walpole: Hi Fox
Eden Haiku: Ok Corvi, much easier yes ;-)
Pema Pera: Syn, did Vendy tell you about our group? We get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- We record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi fox
Vendy Walpole: Syn please take a seat
Eden Haiku: Bonjour Fox!
Pema Pera: hi Fox!
Vendy Walpole: I did not say all
Fox Monacular: hello everyone
Pema Pera: and hi Qt!
Wol Euler: hello fox
Vendy Walpole: about recording did not
Wol Euler: eden, I'm well thanks, and you?
Qt Core: hi all
Eden Haiku: Hello Qt...
Wol Euler: hello qt
Eden Haiku: Good, thnaks ;-)
Eden Haiku: It is fun to see so many people!
Pema Pera: yes, indeed!
Vendy Walpole: Syn is busy in his kitchen
Pema Pera: more than I expected during/after the turkey
Vendy Walpole: until next time
Qt Core: just wait we start to talk, then the fun begin ;-)
Wol Euler: ah yes, happy turkey day to the Americans :)
Vendy Walpole: Happy Holiday
Synergy Watanabe: hope you don't mind if I just sit, I will be back
Pema Pera: Is Corvi here the only real American today?
Wol Euler looks around.
Eden Haiku: Happy Thanksgiving to all Americans!
Pema Pera: to all Corvis!
Eden Haiku: To all Corvis!

Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
Qt Core: just seen a pic of a turkey filled with a duck filled with a chicken (quite a medieval kind of recipe the multi filling)
Wol Euler: O.O
Vendy Walpole: hmmm
Fox Monacular: wow
Fox Monacular: was there an egg in the chicken?
Wol Euler: heheheh
Eden Haiku: ;-)
Pema Pera: and a very small chicken inside the egg?
Qt Core: i remember a lesson where the history teacher read us about a medieval lunch, the external animal was a ox
Qt Core: and ended with an eggs or something like that
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that would take a long time to cook.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: by the time the egg was done the ox would be charcoal!
Wol Euler: absolutely.
Qt Core: i hated it as it was about 1pm and we haven't eaten yet
Qt Core: ;-)
Pema Pera: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins
Corvuscorva Nightfire: much better to have a little bird and cook the stuffing on the side.
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Corvuscorva Nightfire: then we vegetarians get to eat it too.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: giggles.
Wol Euler: I liked Thanksgiving turkey but I hated the week or 10 days of leftovers and soup made from it.
Pema Pera: hahaha
Wol Euler: really, these are **huge** birds.
Pema Pera: the neverending turkey

Corvuscorva Nightfire: we used to eat turkey popsicles for lunch sometimes.
Pema Pera: ?!?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: slices of white meat still frozen!
Fox Monacular: turkey popsicles? really?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I rather enjoyed it, feeling it melt in my mouth
Corvuscorva Nightfire: odd but true.
Eden Haiku: Popsicles. Yak...
Wol Euler: wow
Vendy Walpole: Just talked with Syenrgy about this holiday, it is his holiday as well, and I like the meaning...It is folk's wisdom, to be grateful to what we have, which we all should practice, no matter whera are we from
Qt Core: the biggest turkey you can find here is less than half the standard one in USA
Eden Haiku: Yes, it is a beautiful meaning this holiday.
Pema Pera: yes, indeed
Vendy Walpole: think we talked at some of previous sessions abot gratefulness
Vendy Walpole: and it's connection with love and Being
Wol Euler nods
--BELL--
Synergy Watanabe: Wol, that is a funny sign
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: a fellow ex-Canadian sent that to me
Pema Pera: Hi Zon!
Pema Pera: And hi Mick!
Wol Euler: hello zon, mick
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi.
Vendy Walpole: Hello
Qt Core: i once tried to cook mediavel style, well, more precisely, ante 1492 style, with no american foods
Eden Haiku: Hi Zon, hi Mickorod!

Qt Core: can you imagine italian cusine without tomatoes ?
Wol Euler shakes her head.
Eden Haiku: Funny sign yes... Thanks!
Mickorod Renard: Hi Everyone
Wol Euler: :)
Qt Core: hi mick
Zon Quar: talking about food ?
Eden Haiku: Rounds of Happy Thanksgivings to you two.
Mickorod Renard: busy today
Mickorod Renard: ahh..ok thanks
Pema Pera: Zon and Mick are also European, far removed from the turkeys here . . . .
Mickorod Renard: ;)
Pema Pera: or are you Zon?
Eden Haiku: Oh they are ;-)
Zon Quar: no turkeys here
Vendy Walpole wonders how long last the privileges of being new guardian and blinks
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: Vendy, last week you asked about PaB practices, and we talked a bit about YSBS and absolute/relative, both in sessions and also in email. Have you explored some of those themes further, or do you have any other questions about them?
Eden Haiku: This is European parliament here today !
Pema Pera: almost yes!

Vendy Walpole: I do have Pema :)
Vendy Walpole: thank you for the chance to ask
Vendy Walpole: well
Vendy Walpole: I have one very very basic question
Vendy Walpole: i know the Being can't be defined
Vendy Walpole: but since it is our goal
Vendy Walpole: can we try to explain it through our experiences?
Vendy Walpole: perhaps you could?
Pema Pera: it has to be related to experience, yes, otherwise it would be just theory, ideas
Zon Quar: inexplainable is the tao
Pema Pera: but the way in which it is related to experiences is radically different from anything we are familiar with . . . . .
Pema Pera: it is not a goal, for example
Synergy Watanabe: when you say the Being, do you mean 'you' or what many refer to as 'god'?
Pema Pera: and as long as there seems to be an "I" there is no "Being" in sight
Pema Pera: The notion of God is somewhat similar, but not the same, as "Being"
Pema Pera: the Trinity would come a bit closer
Pema Pera: but different traditions have different language
Vendy Walpole: Can we say Being is life?
Zon Quar: isnt I only noticed after u notice there r Yous
Pema Pera: more than that, Vendy :)
Eden Haiku: Chi?
Fox Monacular: would you say that Being is more of a process than a thing?
Pema Pera: beyond any of all that, I'm afraid :)
Eden Haiku: Shakti?
Vendy Walpole: beyond is not very clear to me
Zon Quar: Shiva and shakti
Pema Pera: to be practical, when we do the 9 sec breaks, we try to drop what we have to see what we are
Pema Pera: so we drop whatever we can
Pema Pera: we wipe our windows
Pema Pera: and see more and more
Pema Pera: when we say "it is shakti" or "it is god" we are painting a nice painting on the window
Pema Pera: looks very pretty perhaps
Eden Haiku: just let being flow...is that what you mean?
Pema Pera: but better to open the window
Pema Pera: and let the sunlight in
Eden Haiku: Open the window, yes...
Pema Pera: that's part of it, yes, Eden
Zon Quar: bath in the light
Pema Pera: to let be . . .
Vendy Walpole: this is the point where I am confused, not life, not God
Vendy Walpole: what is more?
Pema Pera: one other practice we sometimes explore may answer that, Vendy
Eden Haiku: You are a hippie Pema ;-)
Zon Quar: mind wants more

Pema Pera: it is called Appreciate the Presence of Appearance as a Presentation by Being
Pema Pera: APAPB for short
Eden Haiku: Let it be...
Pema Pera: I used to be, yes, Eden :-)
Eden Haiku: ;-)
Pema Pera: so if we drop all words and labels and concepts then still something appears
Pema Pera: we see, feel, hear, think
Pema Pera: and we can appreciate that fact
Pema Pera: or more precisely the presence of all that appears
Pema Pera: and being grateful for that as a present from the Universe
Pema Pera: or from Being
Pema Pera: (the Universe as a "local" representative of Being in our realm)
Pema Pera: does that make some sense?
Vendy Walpole: Is it true that universe has limits?
Pema Pera: I don't know, Vendy, let's find out :)
--BELL--
Zon Quar: no..didnt find any limits
Eden Haiku: Yes, it makes a lot of sense Pema. Good or bad, whatever the Universe is sending is always a blessing?
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: well, we can choose to appreciate it
Vendy Walpole: I have read somewhere that someone claims that universe has limits
Pema Pera: while trying not to judge
Vendy Walpole: This is not proved Pema in the science? About the borders of the universe?
Pema Pera: as for the physical material universe, we can only see so far as the light has traveled since the Big Bang; most of it is still beyond that horizon
Pema Pera: but I wasn't so much thinking about the material universe, rather our whole world in the widest sense
Mickorod Renard: I read that it was turtles all the way down Pema
Wol Euler: :)
Zon Quar: is there matter ?
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: does it matter?
Zon Quar: lol
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think there are two different things.
Zon Quar: no if u dont try to measure it
Corvuscorva Nightfire: one is what I do and the other is what is.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: if I sit and just don't do for as much as I can.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that is important.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and the rest is a game..
Corvuscorva Nightfire: what "is?"
Corvuscorva Nightfire: we can tackle that with stories and science.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but it is just the game we are playing this moment.
Pema Pera: yes, we have to explore for ourselves, Corvi
Pema Pera: much better than losing ourselves in speculations and theories
Pema Pera: we have our own mind to watch
Pema Pera: terrible as it is, remember :-)

Pema Pera: (running joke with Corvi)
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
Pema Pera: ((Corvi, please explain the joke!))
Corvuscorva Nightfire: a mind is a terrible thing to watch....from an old commercial about education..." a mind is a terrible thing to waste."
Zon Quar: smiles
Pema Pera: it was a comic in a book that Corvi and I read during the RL retreat in August in California
Pema Pera: was pretty hilarious
Pema Pera: (but hard to explain a joke!)
Zon Quar: better get out of our minds then
Eden Haiku: But is there matter?/ Does the vast universe ends?/And does it matter?/
Wol Euler smiles
Pema Pera: or let the mind get out of "us"
Pema Pera: hahaha, Eden, perfect!
Pema Pera: always ready for a Haiku
Zon Quar: it matters if we think so
Vendy Walpole: I just thought how naive is to try to see closer what Being is as I did
Eden Haiku: Mickorod is slipping away...
Pema Pera: the trick is more to let Being see . . . .
Mickorod Renard: sorry
Vendy Walpole: It is like a microbe try to see what si the world
Eden Haiku: Welcome back dear!
Mickorod Renard: ;)
Zon Quar: we thought we lost u
Wol Euler: :)
Mickorod Renard: its not Naive Vendy
Synergy Watanabe: our universe could be an atom on another microbe
Vendy Walpole: yes, i have that thought too
Synergy Watanabe: our conscious mind will never know
Synergy Watanabe: we can only speculate
Vendy Walpole: we can experience Being
Pema Pera: as for "beyond" -- to say that something is "beyond concepts" simply means that further arguing and analyzing won't get you closer, but still there are ways to explore, just not by using logic -- rather by doing a kind of practice, like APAPB, YSBS, etc
Synergy Watanabe: meditation
Pema Pera: or Being can present experience, Vendy :-)
Vendy Walpole: yes, it helps
Pema Pera: if we try to experience Being, we make it into an object, that can't work
Zon Quar: watching---
--BELL--
Zon Quar: melting...
Pema Pera: (even "presenting" is not quite right as an expression; none of the words capture it)
Vendy Walpole: I You mean we can appreciate the appearance of the being?
Pema Pera: (small detail, it may be better to leave out "the" in front of Being)
Pema Pera: (there is only one Being :-)

Synergy Watanabe: we see the results of it
Zon Quar: if u appareciate someting..its separate of u
Pema Pera: what we can appreciate is what appears
Pema Pera: and we an appreciate what appears *as* Being
Pema Pera: or a bit more precise:
Pema Pera: we can appreciate the presence of that appearance as a presentation by Being, in some sense
Pema Pera: but we have to jump into it to taste the sense :)
Fox Monacular: (quetly leaving, bye everyone)
Mickorod Renard: bye Fox
Synergy Watanabe: tc Fox
Vendy Walpole: Bye
Vendy Walpole: To be honest, can't say this is clear yet, probably will be in time
Vendy Walpole: through practice
Zon Quar: not in time..only in now
Pema Pera: it can't be clarified in words, so I'm glad it isn't clear :-)
Wol Euler: :)
Eden Haiku: Bye Fox...

Mickorod Renard: as a child I used to feel and sense so much,,the smells,,the touch,,but as an adult, I am shielded from this in a regular way because my mind is full of urgent thoughts about,,well,,stuff
Vendy Walpole: The words are limited and the truth is infinite. We believe we can describe and capture the truth by words, but it is impossible. Vendy's pic
Synergy Watanabe: it's a journey in many ways
Pema Pera: yes, Mick, we have to retrace our steps in some sense
Mickorod Renard: but how one can recapture the richness by allowing the thoughts to drift away,,does open things up
Pema Pera: Vendy, you may like to read our last meeting's transcript for the phenomenology workshop in Kira: http://sites.google.com/site/phenome...ngs/2009-11-20
Pema Pera: there is a lot of overlap with what we're talking about today
Vendy Walpole: Thank you Pema, I will do it
Vendy Walpole: what was the topic?
Pema Pera: and yes, for you too, Mick: I was talking there about the "epoche"
Pema Pera: an experimental method to see closer what is
Pema Pera: rather than what we impute
Pema Pera: it was introduced by Husserl
Eden Haiku: Yes, Micko, like a veil being drawn...
Pema Pera: German philosopher of a hundred years ago
Pema Pera: unusually practical philosopher!
Mickorod Renard: I have felt a mix of sensations recently by just being able to alow into my conciousness,,the real nature of what I was born into,,rather than what I have stained with my imagination
Pema Pera: yes, Mick, isn't nice to drop those layers?
Mickorod Renard: yes,,it can be momentarily frightening too
Mickorod Renard: like a vertigo
Pema Pera: it almost should be, to be real :-)
Pema Pera: I think Stim's workshop is about to start, right?
Pema Pera: In the Kira Cafe
Yakuzza Lethecus: right
Mickorod Renard: wow,,thanks for reminding me,,I am so ,,erm,,forgetful these days
Wol Euler nods
Zon Quar: on which subject ?
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: Ways of Knowing -- living the good life :)
Zon Quar: tha sounds..essesntial
Pema Pera: is, yes
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye for now everyone
Mickorod Renard: ok,,nice seeing you all,,must go to wok,,for my realignmeent
Wol Euler: goodngiht all, take care
Pema Pera: thank you all for coming here!
Synergy Watanabe: nice to meet you all
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye all for now.
Pema Pera: nice to meet you, Syn!
Vendy Walpole: Thank you for answers
Mickorod Renard: bye
Synergy Watanabe: ty
Vendy Walpole: Bye
Zon Quar: i go to wshop,,bye all
Qt Core: 'night all
Pema Pera: thanks for your questions, Vendy!
--BELL--
Wol Euler: bye everyone
Synergy Watanabe: \o/
Eden Haiku: Bye! I have to leave also...
Vendy Walpole: Bye