2009.11.27 01:00 - Tea and nails

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    Wol Euler was guardian and commenter for this session.

    A casual question about Gaya's group tag "Siworae" sparks a great discussion.

    Wol Euler: hello arch, gaya
    Wol Euler wonders what a Siwora is.
    Archmage Atlantis: Hiya Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... it's a Korean film that was made into an English version later, called 'Lake House'
    Gaya Ethaniel: Siworae actually means in October.
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: It was sold internationally as Il Mare - the sea ... name for the Buyeo area :)
    Wol Euler: aaaaaaah
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Oh, I saw that, "The Lake House" english version
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
    Wol Euler: oooooh, that sounds spooky-good.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I prefer the original though some bits a bit sacharine ... but English version also pleasant.
    Wol Euler: hollywood always adds a spoonful of sugar
    Gaya Ethaniel: brb more coffee
    Archmage Atlantis: It expressed longing and the issues of distance for me
    Gaya Ethaniel: :D
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah
    Gaya Ethaniel: Did you like the film then Arch?
    Archmage Atlantis: Very much, Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Wol Euler: oooh, I'm getting goosebumps and misty-eyed. Must see this film.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Watch both versions and tell me what you think :)
    Archmage Atlantis: The original was filmed in Korean then, Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel: mhm ... by sea instead of a lake.
    Gaya Ethaniel: http://images2.iwilab.com/shared/ite...59787_500x.jpg -- poster for the Korean original :)


    Languages, and the learning thereof.

    Archmage Atlantis: I have very little ability to learn new languages, I spend 5 years trying to learn German, and 4 years trying to learn Spanish.......so I am always dependent of subtitles
    Gaya Ethaniel: Me too, I'm not very good at languages either.
    Archmage Atlantis: As I remember none of what I attempted to learn
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well, I have to have a certain motivation other than just liking a language to learn it better ...
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: curiosity?
    Wol Euler: love?
    Gaya Ethaniel thinks ...
    Archmage Atlantis: I wish I could just have Finnish as a plug in module *grin*
    Wol Euler: heheheheh, that would be good.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Not sure ... it's not just about liking it ... I like Japan/Japanese but I have no motivation to study hard though it's relatively easy for me to pick it up.
    Gaya Ethaniel: heheheh
    Wol Euler: so perhaps the difficulty is in the concept of "studying hard". Why not just pick it up easily?
    Gaya Ethaniel: It is easy to pick up I mean Japanese compared to Tibetan for example but I like learning Tibetan better :)
    Wol Euler: you're young, learn both.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I never warmed to French compared to English either ... interesting :)


    Gaya Ethaniel: nah, so much interesting stuff to do ... :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sometimes, having too many interests and hobbies going isn't very good for me, like having too many options.
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Gaya Ethaniel: Actually we were talking about this a few days ago.
    Archmage Atlantis: I understand that Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel looks up ...

    Perfection and tea.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Calvino Rabeni: there is a saying - Show me a man who can make a perfect cup of tea, and I will show you a man who can do anything.
    Wol Euler laughs.
    Wol Euler: so true.
    Archmage Atlantis: What does that saying mean to you. Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel: One learns a particular thing that is congenial to do, enriching perhaps then ... s/he can learn to do other thing just equally well without going through typical 'learning' processes ... I think that's what I saw in this.
    Wol Euler nods. It's about attention and ... hmmmm ... recognition of the worth of doing things well
    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, that is similar, but not the same as the meaning I heard
    Wol Euler: which some people don'T recognize.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Please say more?
    Wol Euler: IMHO )
    Gaya Ethaniel: What is the meaning for you then Arch?
    Archmage Atlantis: Making a perfect cup of tea, a metaphor, is about learning how tea and the rituals around it, are in existence in a particular culture
    Archmage Atlantis: Is there a "right" way to make tea?........I grew up on tea as brewed and prepared in the SE US
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's relative?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think ...
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, sure is. The tea ceremony is one way
    Wol Euler: indian roadside chai is another
    Gaya Ethaniel: An ideal is quite subjective :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: lol roadside chai
    Wol Euler: oh, lemme find the URL, I saw a great film about roadside chai-wallahs :))
    Wol Euler: http://chaipilgrimage.com/2008/11/28...a-chai-wallah/
    Gaya Ethaniel: ooo *looks*
    Wol Euler: it's about excellence. His example: on this particular street there are a dozen chai-wallahs already in business, and one young man setting u his stall
    Archmage Atlantis: My mother boiled water, put in the tea bags
    Wol Euler: there are a dozen people waiting for him, people on their way to work, in more or less of a hurry
    Wol Euler: but they wait for him rather than going to someone else who is already open for business
    Archmage Atlantis: Then as much sugar as the hot water would hold
    Archmage Atlantis: And poured the finished tea over ice
    Gaya Ethaniel: They sometimes put cinnamon ... and some insists on full milk. A uni flatmate German-Indian often made this spiced tea :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: So I'm sure certain people perfer certain vendors :)
    Wol Euler smiles. Arch, that sounds familiar.
    Wol Euler: my canadian (norwegian) grandmother made it that way
    Gaya Ethaniel: Quite a common feature in old markets ... I had specific a tempura stall I'd go for example :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... :)
    Archmage Atlantis: about as far from tea served in a Japanese restaurat


    Archmage Atlantis: as posssible
    Wol Euler: I was about to say that we are perhaps re-enacting the parable of the blind men and the elephant :)
    Wol Euler: guessing what Calvino might have meant
    Archmage Atlantis: The first time I had tea in a Chinese restaurant I was amazed
    Gaya Ethaniel: So it can go like this too ... "show me a person who can make a perfect piece of tempura, and I will show you someone who can do anything." :D
    Archmage Atlantis: It was wonderful
    Wol Euler smiles. What was so great about it, Arch?
    Archmage Atlantis: And I still like both versions

    Difference and wonderfulness.

    Archmage Atlantis: That the same thing can be different, yet still wonderful
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, an important lesson to learn :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Wol Euler: seriously, though. Many people think seeing a difference means that one *must* be superior to the other
    Gaya Ethaniel nods ... easy to think that.
    Archmage Atlantis: The nail that stands out gets hammered down - I have alway disagreed
    Wol Euler nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: Why? It's a hazard?
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, it is a hazard
    Wol Euler: metaphorical nails :) The meaning is "don't be better than your peers at doing anything"
    Wol Euler: which is of course nonsense
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... ok
    Archmage Atlantis: It also says there is nothing new to learn
    Wol Euler: also nonsense
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm reading this funny log from 1 pm yesterday ... meetings are not becoming solely about PaB pracitces.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Here it's all about food ... :)


    Gaya Ethaniel shrugs ... show me a place where there is no nonsense ... :P
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh ... clever, it does get steered into 'Being' half way through ... :) Very skillful hosting ...
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, I remember now, had to look it up to be sure what you meant.
    Gaya Ethaniel: brb
    Gaya Ethaniel: back
    Wol Euler: wb
    Gaya Ethaniel: ty :)

    A little meta-discussion to round the morning out. 

    Gaya Ethaniel: To be honest, I'd find sessions where we just do breaks and talk about experiences one by one boring ...
    Wol Euler grins
    Gaya Ethaniel: But then perhaps it won't be for people who doesn't get to practice in RL much ...
    Wol Euler: I get the impression thatt many visitors don't do the practices at all.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Balance sounds easy but hard to do ... :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well ... people don't just take up meditation ... need a trigger of some sort, genuine reason for trying out.
    Archmage Atlantis: Define balance please.
    Gaya Ethaniel: May take some time for some people while some will just dive in.
    Gaya Ethaniel: What do you think Arch?
    Archmage Atlantis: I asked first
    Gaya Ethaniel shrugs ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: You can ask ... but whether I choose to answer is another thing :P
    Wol Euler: play nicely, please :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, of course, and that is balance
    Gaya Ethaniel: heh ok :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Just tired to think about concepts that's all :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Should go get some rest I think ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good day/night, nice seeing you both :)
    Wol Euler: bye gaya, take care.
    Archmage Atlantis: I agree, so I shall tell you my understanding of balance
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok
    Archmage Atlantis: Balance is a transitional moment, when all we know is coherent
    Wol Euler nods thoughtfully
    Gaya Ethaniel nods ... and will read the log later :)


    Archmage Atlantis: New knowlege create new balance
    Wol Euler: often only after a period of imbalance, until it's understood and incorporated into what we know.
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Wol, that is how I see it for us, for now
    Wol Euler: I foresee some work in my immediate future, alas.
    Wol Euler: take care, Arch, get some sleep :)
    Archmage Atlantis: I will try
    Wol Euler: bye for now

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