2009.12.05 19:00 - Like Being on Top of a Mountain

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

    Pema Pera: Hi Eden!
    Pema Pera: you look very distinguished tonight!
    Eden Haiku: Hi Pema! What time is it in Kyoto now?
    Eden Haiku: blushing...
    Pema Pera: Hi Widget!
    Widget Whiteberry: good... morning?
    Eden Haiku: Hi Widget!
    Widget Whiteberry: Hi Eden
    Pema Pera: just noon here in Japan, Widget, for me
    Widget Whiteberry: sl -7
    Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
    Pema Pera: may I ask, is there a particular symbolism connected with your great outfit, Widget?
    Widget Whiteberry: you may
    Pema Pera: :)
    Widget Whiteberry: I found some interesting creations from a group called alpha.tribe
    Widget Whiteberry: this is a mix of one of their skins and their 'hermit'
    Widget Whiteberry: I decided to make myself look the way I'm feeling
    Eden Haiku: Looks perfect for this snowfall...
    Widget Whiteberry: well, too try
    Widget Whiteberry: it does work with the snow
    Widget Whiteberry: I added the boots
    Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
    Eden Haiku: And it looks good!
    Pema Pera: yes, it's comfy and yet intriguingly mysterious :)
    Widget Whiteberry: I thought about running around in just the skin
    Widget Whiteberry: but it's too provacotive
    Pema Pera: :)
    Widget Whiteberry: and I feel kind of hermity
    Eden Haiku: A nude hermit maybe?
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Widget Whiteberry: who would know?
    Widget Whiteberry: their skins act as clothes
    Pema Pera: have you been feeling hermity for a long time?
    Eden Haiku: What do you mean?
    Widget Whiteberry: lately, often
    Pema Pera: I mean, days, weeks, months, or . . ?
    Eden Haiku: Thanks Pema. I'm still learning how to do the logs...
    Pema Pera: best to ask someone, to go through it in real time, step by step
    Pema Pera: tonight is my weekly slot
    Eden Haiku: Wol has been helping me.
    Pema Pera: (as for clothes, Eden is a hermit-about-town tonite I guess :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Calvino!
    Eden Haiku: Exactly...some club opening later ;-)
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello, good to see you Pema (and others)
    Eden Haiku: Hi!

    I learned something new about viewers.

    Eden Haiku: Is it with the Emerald viewer that avatars can have tags over their heads like that?
    Pema Pera: I'm not sure about what an "emerald viewer" is -- is that different from the default viewer?
    Widget Whiteberry: yes, not made by LL
    Pema Pera: ah, so you have to buy that separately, from another company?
    Eden Haiku: I read a mail by Storm about it.
    Widget Whiteberry: free download
    Pema Pera: open source?
    Eden Haiku: He sent the link but it is a lot of info.
    Widget Whiteberry: I think so, Pema
    Pema Pera: interesting idea!
    Calvino Rabeni: The tag is from a hovertext script I wrote - it works in standard viewer - I did not test it in others
    Eden Haiku: It seems to do lots of things, ways to teleport and so on..
    Calvino Rabeni: It is just a way to "show up" a nother bit of info - an experiment
    Eden Haiku: Ah, thank you Calvino.
    Pema Pera: Does anyone have a suggestion as to what we can do during the next 90 seconds, a short exploration of some kind?
    Widget Whiteberry: I was thinking of breathing
    Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
    Pema Pera: always a good idea :)
    Eden Haiku: Yes.
    Pema Pera: (drinking not bad either :-)
    Eden Haiku: Throwing her chewing gum...
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi all!
    Pema Pera: Hi Eos!
    Eden Haiku: Good evening Eos!
    Pema Pera: Eos: [19:13] Pema Pera: Does anyone have a suggestion as to what we can do during the next 90 seconds, a short exploration of some kind? [19:13] Widget Whiteberry: I was thinking of breathing
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema, Widget, Eos, Eden, Calvino :)
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Pema Pera: Hi Eliza!
    Eden Haiku: Eliza is wearing the Invisibility Shield.
    Pema Pera: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Am I? Fun. :)
    Pema Pera: zoom in and out and she will show up, Eden

    Eden managed to wake us all up :)

    Eden Haiku: ßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßß
    Widget Whiteberry hurries off for water
    Calvino Rabeni: (eden sleeps on keyboard?)
    Eden Haiku: Hi! How can I avoid these cam moves showing in the chat window?
    Pema Pera: ß is German for ss . . . perhaps a snake visited her?
    Eos Amaterasu: catching some betas
    Calvino Rabeni: In USA sleeping is ZZZZZZZZZZZ
    Eden Haiku: No, when I do zoom in and out (it worked, I see Eliza now!) ther write lettersin the window...
    Pema Pera: must be Eden's French accent
    Eden Haiku: ha ha ha!!
    Pema Pera: artistically displayed in German
    Eos Amaterasu: we log all zooming
    Eden Haiku: It does not do that when you use your camera?
    Pema Pera: nope
    Eden Haiku: What's wrong with me ;-(((
    Pema Pera: perhaps first click outside the "local chat box" before you give camera commands?
    Eden Haiku: Brilliant...Thanks!
    Eos Amaterasu: click outside the box, Luke!
    Eden Haiku: ;-)))
    Pema Pera: I enjoyed the breathing suggestion by Widget, during the break -- nice to see my thoughts falling down and resting, like the snow flakes here
    Eos Amaterasu: also sense of communing with the world, taking it in, letting go into it
    Eden Haiku: I felt my body, its position and also afeeling like after a day in ski, memories I guess..
    Eos Amaterasu: like after a day skiing?
    Eden Haiku: Yes, skiing.
    Eden Haiku: Mayve beacuse this place feels like being on top of a mountain.
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Widget Whiteberry: snow flakes and wisteria
    Eden Haiku: Winter and summer mixed.
    Eos Amaterasu: Lately I've been getting or including more of a geographic sense of presence of the RLs of the SLs here, all in the 90 secs

    I was not the only one who was slightly puzzled :-)

    Widget Whiteberry: Eos??
    Eden Haiku: Can you tell us?
    Pema Pera: "RLs of the SLs"?
    Eos Amaterasu: might be part of that "reverence" quality you alluded to the other day, Eden
    Eos Amaterasu: the real life people scattered over the globe across thousands of miles but yet together here in SL
    Pema Pera: ah!
    Eos Amaterasu: in a shared 90 secs
    Eden Haiku: yes, I see...
    Eos Amaterasu: Kind of amazing!
    Widget Whiteberry: oh yes.... I think of it in a temporal way
    Pema Pera looking to his feet deep down to where Eos is sitting now at the other side of the world
    Widget Whiteberry: when we are
    Eos Amaterasu: (I won't tickle )
    Widget Whiteberry: Pema is SL -7
    Widget Whiteberry: Eos is SL +4 (typically)
    Eden Haiku: The silly skater is here!
    Pema Pera: SL-7+24
    Eos Amaterasu watches Storm skate in
    Pema Pera: (it's Sunday here in Japan)
    Pema Pera: hi Storm and Arch!
    Widget Whiteberry: I am SLT (pacific)
    Eden Haiku: I'm SLT +3
    Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
    Calvino Rabeni: And I, SLT
    Archmage Atlantis: Hi all
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Arch, Storm :)

    The talk turned toward the role of time in greetings.

    Widget Whiteberry: When is everyone else?
    Storm Nordwind whispers "Hello" to everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: SLT+3 like Eden :)
    Storm Nordwind is on MST
    Pema Pera: "when are you?" -- interesting SL greeting!
    Widget Whiteberry: my thought too
    Widget Whiteberry: we cast a temporal net
    Pema Pera: "when on Earth are you?"
    Widget Whiteberry: both synchronous and asynchronous
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Widget Whiteberry: our virtual hands almost touching
    Archmage Atlantis: We need a new verb or pharse that expresses both time and location on earth
    Archmage Atlantis: *phrase
    Widget Whiteberry: I wonder how it would feel to be sitting here with hands linked around the pool
    Widget Whiteberry: time and place, yes
    Eos Amaterasu: so when is this place?
    Widget Whiteberry: all-time?
    Pema Pera: and where is this time?
    Widget Whiteberry: metaverse?

    I tried to connect with a PaB like topic.

    Pema Pera: in general I think virtual worlds are great tools to help us de-identify with what we are normally clinging to
    Archmage Atlantis: Maybe the weather or environmental conditions also, as my Austrian friends remind me it is mid-summer and the days will be getting shorter not longer
    Pema Pera: helping to wear our usual identifications more lightly
    Pema Pera: Australian?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, not sure... think I may be more preoccupied with clothes and hair since I started SL ;-)
    Eden Haiku: Australian you mean?
    Eos Amaterasu: in a kind of paradoxical way, through taking on new, virtual, identifications
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, thanks Pema
    Widget Whiteberry grins at Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal grins back widely
    Pema Pera: yes, but the skin and hair here are more easily switched than in RL, so the identifications are less "sticky"
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, true true
    Eliza Madrigal: playfullier
    Eden Haiku: I stick to the same haircut in Sl as in RL...No, not the same haircut in each world...
    Widget Whiteberry: outfitting myself in SL seems a more creative experience, less constrained
    Pema Pera: SL may be a help in shifting from seeming-to-be to seeming-to-have -- in RL we seem to be a body, and here we more clearly have one (though still we identify, of course)
    Pema Pera: a great meditative experiment
    Archmage Atlantis: I must admit I do not love the phrase "meat-bag", but behind this image and this keyboard I remain flesh and blood
    Widget Whiteberry: yucky phrase - evokes self loathing
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes interesting angle.. we don't think, as we move through RL "oh, let me move my body over there"
    Eos Amaterasu: not yet
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eden Haiku: Soon...
    Calvino Rabeni: The control is imperfect, but the better it gets, the easier it is to identify
    Eliza Madrigal: well if we think less, in rl, then over there might move the body? hah..
    Calvino Rabeni: And I notice a desire to improve it
    Eden Haiku: I can't wait for teleportation in RL
    Widget Whiteberry: I don't think about moving my body , I think about going somewhere, being somewhere
    Storm Nordwind: Oh I can wait. It would be a terrorist weapon very quickly

    The conversation turned to various world problems.

    Eden Haiku: really?
    Widget Whiteberry: true, Storm, sadly true
    Widget Whiteberry: but everything is a weapon in the hands of someone wishing to create chaos
    Widget Whiteberry: although some weapons are more powerful than others
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, true Storm, but it may evolve anyway
    Widget Whiteberry pulls her cloak around her
    Eden Haiku: Chilly suddenly...
    Archmage Atlantis: And new "evils" are part of dealing with existence and moving forward
    Archmage Atlantis: I had a conversation today with a friend, the conclusion of which was
    Archmage Atlantis: To exist is to change, to not change is to not exist
    Widget Whiteberry: /request 75
    Calvino Rabeni: How about "being is movement" not stillness?
    Eden Haiku: The small islands of Tuvalu in the Pacific are doomed to be washed out by the ocean. Yet the people there refuse to move to New Zealand. They even say it will still be the land of their ancestors even if it goes underwater.
    Calvino Rabeni: Responding to AA's statement
    Calvino Rabeni: About that, Eden?
    Eden Haiku: I was thinking about «new evils»: terrorism, climate changes...
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, Eden... complex. It relates a little to something I was thinking today... about superstition.. can be layered/imperceptable, why change seems difficult, etc
    Archmage Atlantis: The last 90 seconds brought another poem to me
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Tuvalu people - a nostalgic idea to a modern person, or maybe, irrational sounding
    stevenaia Michinaga: evening
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Steve
    Archmage Atlantis: Exist

      All times may exist at once

      But this me exist in this moment

      The past is a learning

      The future is a choice

      Only the present exists In this universe

    Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
    Eden Haiku: Time, yes, What is the nature of time?
    Storm Nordwind: We have a Kira workshop dedicated to asking just that question Eden!
    Archmage Atlantis: To the physicist or to the poet, Eden?
    Eden Haiku: Both ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: the sentence reads like a lyric :)
    Archmage Atlantis: What is the story, I believe it was told originally in Sanskrit
    Archmage Atlantis: About the blind men and the elephant?
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to pop in to see everyone tonight :) Bye for now
    Widget Whiteberry blinks
    Eos Amaterasu: Bye Eliza
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Pema Pera: bye Eliza!
    Eden Haiku: Bye Eliza!
    Archmage Atlantis: Bye Eliza
    Pema Pera: talking about terrorism and climate change: somebody once said "if only climate change had a mustache" -- it is so much easier to galvanize people to fight against a person as an image than against a global climate effect . . .
    Archmage Atlantis: *chuckles*

    The topic of multiple greeting lines comes up; some day we'll find a solution!

    Widget Whiteberry: I think our chat logs would benefit from some convention that doesn't require everyone to greet and say goodbye to everyone and still allow us to feel recongnized and part of the group.
    Widget Whiteberry is feeling a touch cranky
    Widget Whiteberry: goes with feeling herimit-y
    Eden Haiku: I like the greetings. We might want to be more creative about them maybe...
    Pema Pera: we could have a designated greeter :-)
    Widget Whiteberry: could the recording device be a greeter on behalf of all of us
    Pema Pera: but yes, Widget, the topic comes up regularly
    Eden Haiku: Maybe script some animations like bowing and so on...
    Pema Pera: no clear solution
    Widget Whiteberry: oh, a designated greeter!
    Calvino Rabeni: I think with climate change we are up against a myth that Nature is unchanging
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Pema, like Wal-Mart *smile*
    Pema Pera: :)
    Widget Whiteberry: hello and good bye on behalf of the group
    Widget Whiteberry: damn, I'm stuck in trivia
    Widget Whiteberry: with the planet melting
    Storm Nordwind winces
    Calvino Rabeni: People might have an easier time accepting it if they thought of everything including climate as continually changing
    Eden Haiku: I think sometimes the greetings force us into another mode which is good. Small talk helps usé
    Eden Haiku: *us
    Widget Whiteberry: it has it's benefits
    Calvino Rabeni: If they hear the slogan "Our changing climate" enough times, it will sink in as an idea
    Eden Haiku: Hail to uou Master Hermit Widget!
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Storm Nordwind: Salutations at the lotus feet of the hallowed mendicant
    Eden Haiku: Salutations at the lotus feet of the hallowed mendicant: the best greeting ever Storm! I'm notecarding it and will copycat you if you allow me ;-)
    Widget Whiteberry: Thank you and farewell, all
    Calvino Rabeni: (finally checking out Widget's outfit - like your cowl expecially)
    Calvino Rabeni: BYe
    Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
    Pema Pera: (may I say "bye Widget"?)
    Eos Amaterasu: Bye Widg (is that you?) :-)
    Eden Haiku: Goodnoite, farewelll,,, (Family Trapp like...!!!
    Widget Whiteberry: it is me, yes
    Widget Whiteberry: just in a particular mood
    Eden Haiku: Bye Eos!
    Storm Nordwind: Salutations © 2009, Storm Nordwind Inc., Eden. All royalty payments to the Kira website donations button :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, time to depart, blessings and farewell my friends
    Eden Haiku: Sure ;-)
    Pema Pera: bye Arch!
    Eden Haiku: Blessings Archmage!
    stevenaia Michinaga: seems I;ve been missing some interesting converations today due to my late arrival (probably every day)
    stevenaia Michinaga: is that ice on the fountain, Storm?
    Storm Nordwind: It is supposed to be Steve, yes
    Eden Haiku: Ho are you doing Steve? We have been talking about time, identification...
    Pema Pera: see you all soon again!
    Pema Pera: bfn

    Since I left at this point, I'll leave the rest of the session uncommented.

    Storm Nordwind waves
    Eden Haiku: Salutations at the lotus feet of the hallowed mendicant Pema!
    stevenaia Michinaga: I have having a lovely day, snow 2-3 inches here
    Calvino Rabeni: BYe Pema
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Eden Haiku: Nice. Snow is late up here... not yet stays on the ground. Only in SL...
    stevenaia Michinaga: Eden... identification...? or how it relates to time?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I could read the log :)
    Eden Haiku: Well, I,m not sure how they relate either Steve....
    Calvino Rabeni: The individual listener blogs - I was wondering where that goes - on the wiki somewhere?
    stevenaia Michinaga: there is a place for those, or their links on the wiki, do you ahve a blog, Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: Not at this time. If I did, could I access those logs out of the database?
    Calvino Rabeni: In the PAB wiki?
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, although the search capabilities of the wiki are limited
    Calvino Rabeni: (has no mental model of where it goes)
    Eden Haiku: _/|\_
    Storm Nordwind: Namaste
    stevenaia Michinaga: best to remmeber the dates and times :)
    Eden Haiku: Well, salutations at the lotus feet of the hallowed mendicant to all of you.
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Calvino Rabeni: Good bye
    Storm Nordwind: I too will depart
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
    Storm Nordwind: Goodbye dear friends!
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Strm
    stevenaia Michinaga: Storm
    stevenaia Michinaga: thanls for the weather
    Calvino Rabeni: Stylishly as always, departing
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, wonders if he as a scateboard for the summer
    stevenaia Michinaga: skate
    Calvino Rabeni: Lots of room for layful expression in SL
    Calvino Rabeni: Playful I meant
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: If I meet people from this group in RL, I will think "you are a lot bigger than I expected" :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Little moving people in a laptop. It reminds me of childhood toys a bit.
    stevenaia Michinaga: "Play"
    Calvino Rabeni: But this time around I'm more convinced it is the beginning of big future
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, people in RL ahve additioanl complexities about them
    Calvino Rabeni: I am a toy, here
    stevenaia Michinaga: it;s always the begining
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice about every moment, a new begining
    stevenaia Michinaga: like a blank piece of paper
    Calvino Rabeni: hmmm
    Calvino Rabeni: do you think, say, tatoos and piercings (in RL) are related to that idea?
    stevenaia Michinaga: for me it;s hard to say as I don;t have any, it may not be for the receiver, but perhaps for the artist
    Calvino Rabeni: For the receiver, it is saying - look at me - I am no longer blank - I am writing on this my body with indelible ink. It is a permanent mark.
    Calvino Rabeni: Just a thought
    stevenaia Michinaga: exactly
    Calvino Rabeni: In a sense they rebel against blankness
    stevenaia Michinaga: thee can be permanent things, no turning back to a blank canvass,
    stevenaia Michinaga: some people need to be anchored to a moment ot a theme in that way
    Calvino Rabeni: THe parents say - it might seem like a good idea NOW, but ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Anchoring is their desire
    Calvino Rabeni: and to make a mark in time
    stevenaia Michinaga: a very specific mark that stops time
    Calvino Rabeni: it seems like that
    stevenaia Michinaga: do you have tattoos?
    Calvino Rabeni: no, I just think about it
    Calvino Rabeni: I mean consider, but not enough to go get one
    stevenaia Michinaga: some tattoos are quite abstract however and can be quite beautiful, something more than just "Mom"
    Calvino Rabeni: Not that I want more, but I don't regret the scars I have
    stevenaia Michinaga: or "Stella"
    Calvino Rabeni: I've seen some I almost coveted
    stevenaia Michinaga: or cultural
    Calvino Rabeni: My ex has large area tatooos
    Calvino Rabeni: I went to a spa that sponsors special groups - one was large women with large tatoos
    stevenaia Michinaga: SL or RL?
    Calvino Rabeni: Like big-screen tv - lots of surface. Very impressive
    Calvino Rabeni: RL
    Calvino Rabeni: I was not quite aware of the number of small groups like that, with distinctive features
    Calvino Rabeni: And a kind of tribal quality
    stevenaia Michinaga: it is a very old tradition
    Calvino Rabeni: They redeemed their natural tribalism
    Calvino Rabeni: From being possessed by other institutions
    Calvino Rabeni: It is ironic or maybe just interesting that globalism results in tribalism.
    stevenaia Michinaga: it is something basic to humanity, here we are , member sof SL groups and the PaB tribe
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, there is something ancient, rich about it
    Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps some had dreams of the unity of all humanity in a technological future.
    Calvino Rabeni: True too, but it's complex, no?
    stevenaia Michinaga: can;t imagine who
    Calvino Rabeni: There are more perspectives than ever to identify with
    Calvino Rabeni: Techno-utopians, perhaps? The ones that don't have dystopian cyber-punk visions.
    Calvino Rabeni: In the dark aspects of that dream there are romances
    stevenaia Michinaga: your dream or one you read about "Perhaps some had dreams "
    Calvino Rabeni: I meant an aesthetic worldview expressed in literature and in futurism
    stevenaia Michinaga: not that familair to me
    stevenaia Michinaga: sounds scary
    stevenaia Michinaga: techno uniformity?
    Calvino Rabeni: Do you follow any genre of drama, e.g. science fiction on television?
    stevenaia Michinaga: some
    stevenaia Michinaga: recent FLash Forward
    stevenaia Michinaga: Star Trek in the past
    Calvino Rabeni: That is based on a novel, which I haven't read.
    Calvino Rabeni: WIthin a genre you see a progression that speaks of cultural changes
    stevenaia Michinaga: available on Hulu.com
    Calvino Rabeni: I have seen it there, as I have no TV
    stevenaia Michinaga: that;ws what I am saying it is available over the internet
    Calvino Rabeni: For instance, the Stargate series. THere were several versions
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: RIght, I watch it there.
    stevenaia Michinaga: the movie and series
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, and the latest one, Stargate Universe, is kind of stridently postmodern
    stevenaia Michinaga: haven;t see those
    Calvino Rabeni: As art, aimed at the mainstream zeitgeist
    Calvino Rabeni: But geek culture, I think, falls for a different stage of things - maybe post post modern
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: a label to place it in time
    Calvino Rabeni: There was a lot of affection for Seldon's stuff (I think that is the name) e.g. Firefly and DOllhouse
    Calvino Rabeni: The label can be argued - but kind of identifies a broad cultural trend
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pocohantis
    Pocohantis Jumanya: hello stevenaia
    Calvino Rabeni: Like in Dollhouse, the in-group is slightly evil, but there is an affection based on tribalism.
    Pocohantis Jumanya: hi calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Pocohantis, welcome
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice of you to join us
    stevenaia Michinaga: how did you discover this location
    Pocohantis Jumanya: just tp around
    stevenaia Michinaga: we record out conversations here, is it ok if we incluse yu?
    stevenaia Michinaga: *include you
    stevenaia Michinaga: our, rather
    Pocohantis Jumanya: why not
    Pocohantis Jumanya: tks
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: we post the logs on our group Wiki
    Pocohantis Jumanya: ok
    stevenaia Michinaga: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
    stevenaia Michinaga: we meet to explore reality as a group 4 time a day, at 1:00 and 7:00 am and PM
    Pocohantis Jumanya: I'll just take a moment and read it ok
    stevenaia Michinaga: no problem, enjoy
    stevenaia Michinaga: so Cal, how do you feel all this future visioning affects now?
    Calvino Rabeni: Do you mean, the effect on me personally, or of the fantasies that seem to be all around?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I love how certain aspects of architecture are as fresh today as they were 100 years ago, or 200 years ago
    Calvino Rabeni: I am very appreciative of the options available
    stevenaia Michinaga: how they affect the current moment in general, alike all the 2012 literature and movies currently being circulated
    stevenaia Michinaga: a very near future vire
    stevenaia Michinaga: view
    Calvino Rabeni: I have not tuned into 2012, do you think it is somewhat mainstream?
    Calvino Rabeni: It seems to me there are millenial visions whenever people get a chance for it.
    stevenaia Michinaga: some are trying
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: it generally does not speak well of the future
    Calvino Rabeni: You have a concern
    stevenaia Michinaga: not at all, I see the worry in some of my friends, though
    Pocohantis Jumanya: this is all very interesting however not a good time for me at the moment thank you for the introduction and I 'll return at a better time
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks for sitting with us Pocohantis
    stevenaia Michinaga: but it;s like jsut abother birthday fo me
    stevenaia Michinaga: a passing f time , nothing more
    stevenaia Michinaga: nothing you can much about
    Calvino Rabeni: How do you choose your horizon?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I belive in the hand of fate, I also belive I have a bit of a hand in the hand of fate
    stevenaia Michinaga: the paths exists, perhaps made withough my hand, but the choice can be mine
    Calvino Rabeni: the hand of fate, in part, your hand.
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, as I see it
    Calvino Rabeni: (Change "you" to "me")
    stevenaia Michinaga: and yours?
    Calvino Rabeni: Resolving various paradoxes I suppose. Lately thinking a bit about fate and destiny as themes.
    Calvino Rabeni: They seem less remote than in the past
    Calvino Rabeni: They are poetic, non-modern ideas.
    stevenaia Michinaga: sounds lovely
    Calvino Rabeni: In a way it is like swimming upstream - I think that notion came up in one of the Kira groups recently but I don't recall which.
    Calvino Rabeni: More ice.
    stevenaia Michinaga: I try to persoanlly avoid upstream swims, or make upstream downstream somehow
    Calvino Rabeni: We don't have to have weather here but we enjoy it - a simulation of nature
    Calvino Rabeni: Upstream swimming converts fate to destiny - kind of a formula I know, but something I consider
    stevenaia Michinaga: and downstream lets fate take you away?
    Calvino Rabeni: In that metaphor yes
    Calvino Rabeni: It's not the "follow the tao" metaphor.
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: destiny seems like an uphill battle, alot of work to possibly get to the same place
    Calvino Rabeni: there are stories about that distinction.
    stevenaia Michinaga: I;m sure
    Calvino Rabeni: People who fought their fate, embraced their destiny and made something of it.
    Calvino Rabeni: And paradoxically they could not change the fate nor escape from it
    Calvino Rabeni: but its character was transformed through their wholehearted participation.
    stevenaia Michinaga: not in this universe
    stevenaia Michinaga: the joys of having many universes
    Calvino Rabeni: In a chat medium, it's kind of limited, hard to tell a long story like that one.
    Calvino Rabeni: We get to speak in short coded phrases
    Calvino Rabeni: And imagine the rest
    Calvino Rabeni: Luckily the internet backs us up with references and links
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: but still it is not as enjoyable as to step into the presence of creating the story afresh
    stevenaia Michinaga: I msut be off
    stevenaia Michinaga: thanks Cal

    Calvino Rabeni: YW, a pleasure, steve

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