2009.12.11 07:00 - Appreciating Hajj (A Bedtime Story)

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, who was first joined by Pema, then doug, Sophia, and Benedizone... sort of. :)

    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema :))
    Pema Pera: hi there Eliza!
    Pema Pera: good morning!
    Eliza Madrigal: Good late evening!
    Pema Pera: yes, midnight, exactly
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, then I might still get away with Good Morning :)
    Pema Pera: so, to keep me awake a bit longer, how about (with a nod to Calvino) "tell me a story" ?
    Pema Pera: yes, Good early morning!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal wonders what stories she might have to tell...
    Eliza Madrigal rummages through her purse
    Pema Pera: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, what were you thinking about today? That might help...
    Pema Pera: oh, let's see, differential equations, uhh, . . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, I definitely do not have differential equation stories...
    Pema Pera: . . . how pleasant the rain sounded on my umbrella . . .
    doug Sosa: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ahh, well THAT is lovely image
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi doug :)
    Pema Pera: . . . how much fun it was to hear the creation story of the new research center that I am visiting now
    Pema Pera: Hi Doug!
    doug Sosa: !
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd love to hear about that, too
    Pema Pera: hah, you want *me* to tell stories, he :-)
    Eliza Madrigal grins

    Maybe Pema will share that story another time. This time, Doug arrives and shares his ongoing impressions of applying the 9second practice in daily life...

    Pema Pera: Doug, I really enjoyed reading an earlier chat log, more than a week ago, where you talked about doing the 9 sec while talking with others, even in front of a whole grup
    Pema Pera: *group
    doug Sosa: yes, i've really taken the 9 sec as a kind of rabbits foot i can stroke at any time.
    Pema Pera: I have a quote from 2009/11/30 7 pm:
    Pema Pera: doug Sosa: i am in an intense converation wiht two othrs. try the 9 sec. suddenly it is not me and two of them, it is three of us.
    Pema Pera: that is nothing less that Being Seeing !
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sophia! :)
    sophia Placebo: Hi
    Pema Pera: Good afternoon Sophia!
    doug Sosa: yes, "I" become just another i the conversation, and i can see "I" as him.
    Eliza Madrigal: oooh, nice doug!
    Pema Pera: how did it go, in front of a whole group, did that work, Doug?
    doug Sosa: yes. not quite as well, but i noticed that the breadth of visual focus "lets's go" and i see the whole room and the people in it more clearly, not
    doug Sosa: as if from one angle but from all.
    Pema Pera: very inspiring!
    Eliza Madrigal: Indeed
    doug Sosa: and helpful. and interesting.
    Pema Pera: there were some interesting other Doug quotes in that session too: doug Sosa: that is when we really learn from the 9. Don't stop doing what you are doing, just add in the 9 sec and seewhat happens to get experienced. doug Sosa: I want the intensity, just not to be dominated by it. doug Sosa: So hey, during my own speech, yes. i'll try.
    Pema Pera: (this is what I refered to in my previous question :)
    doug Sosa: yes.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes how interesting... when we focus on dropping maybe sometimes it can seem an interruption? Hm, but adding in... yes very helpful angle
    Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...ive_experience
    sophia Placebo: thanx
    Pema Pera: dropping the "you seeing" part, effectively
    Pema Pera: leaving the "Being seeing"
    doug Sosa: i never liked dropping what i was doing to do the 9 sec. he 9 sec for me is an appraoch to being with what is happening from the standpoint of appreciation (etc)
    Pema Pera: the idea was more: dropping what is extraneous, distracting, what we add to a situation in terms of self-centered worries
    doug Sosa: yes, although sometimes what seems extraneous is actually the needed part of the experience. I know that is not clear,
    Pema Pera: there are many subtle levels in there . . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes we hold on to what wants to fall away i suppose
    Eliza Madrigal: or already has
    Pema Pera: yes, and in different ways
    Pema Pera: we can avoid the rain or enjoy the rain :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    doug Sosa: snow.
    doug Sosa: I want to feel cold seeing it, but don't. feels like my tee-shirt is not enough.
    doug Sosa: but i am sitting in a room with a fire and bundled up.
    Pema Pera: notice that it doesn't stay on the ground, so it can't be toooo cold
    doug Sosa: there are drifts (piles).

    Pema asks Sophia what she's been up to, which leads us into the rest of this session... 

    Pema Pera: Sophia, it's good to see you again! How have you been?
    Eliza Madrigal: And if you walk through the piles, the snow scatters about :)
    sophia Placebo: good to see you too , im still alive thankfully
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Pema Pera smiles too
    Pema Pera: did you travel for a while?
    sophia Placebo: :) i went to Hajj hmm 10 days in mekka
    Pema Pera: that must have been an extraordinary experiene!
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, will you tell us about it, Sophia?
    Pema Pera: *ce
    sophia Placebo: on all levels
    sophia Placebo: oh Eliza you need to be there to feel it right
    Pema Pera: was it your first Hajj Sophia?
    sophia Placebo: yes and i hope it wouldnt be the last
    Eliza Madrigal: just picturning and imagining what it must be like to be part of such a thing is incredible
    Eliza Madrigal: so many... a real stirring of shared devotion
    Pema Pera: was it very different than you had expected, Sophia?
    sophia Placebo: hmm it needs lots of energy , physical and spritual and mental too , you get tired sleepless and dirty and your smell stincks , your nerves are about to fire at any moment if you were not in hajj lol but you hold your stress to not lose your efforts and hmm well lots of joy and hopes
    Eliza Madrigal: :)))
    Pema Pera: !!!
    Eliza Madrigal loves you way of describing things.. hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: *your
    doug Sosa: vivid. bit frightening. hold on to the group to avoid feeling the panic of the presence of the group.
    Pema Pera: but the group's energy must be tremendously inspiring
    sophia Placebo: yes pema , sleeping with 5 more in one room is something new , sharing one bathroom with hmm 18 others and sleeping under one tent with like 120 , and walking around the ka,aba with million person is absulotly totally new
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh My!
    Pema Pera trying to picture it all, with all senses . . . .
    Pema Pera: (Sophia, I asked Eliza "tell me a story" but she wisely defered and waited till you showed up!)
    Eliza Madrigal: One bathroom and 18 others, yes that is devotion :)
    Pema Pera: and foresight in timing . . . .
    Eliza Madrigal smiles "Being always ready to approach"
    sophia Placebo: notice we have not to complain during hujj including changing your expression when smelling like million persons in their sweats
    sophia Placebo: lol eliza
    doug Sosa: i must go.
    Eliza Madrigal: What a wonderful example of appreciation.... you can notice, while not complaining... while really experiencing...
    Eliza Madrigal: engaging
    Pema Pera: hmmm, that reminds me of a PaB session, more than a year ago: You Smelling Being Smelling :-)
    Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...in_Assumptions
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh My
    Pema Pera: (sorry, couldn't help the pun :)
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    sophia Placebo: :))
    Pema Pera: how many days did you stay there, Sophia?
    sophia Placebo: the hajj is from the 8th of the last arabic month to the 12th
    sophia Placebo: but we depart in the 5th and we visit prophet grave and mosque so we return after 15th
    sophia Placebo: totall 10 days
    Pema Pera: wow ...
    Eliza Madrigal: And you went with your whole family?
    sophia Placebo: i visited mecca befor to do Omra < a ritual must be done for any who enetrs mecca , but i guess i didnt know what i was doing i just performs acts back then but this time it was diffrent
    sophia Placebo: no Eliza , me my brother and my cousin , we all did our fist hajj
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah :) How was it different (say shh if I ask too many questions..hehe. You are always so patient)

    Starting to think about it seriously...

    sophia Placebo: i start to think about it serousily , i mean what would walking around the ka'aba 7 times do to your whole life ?
    Eliza Madrigal: :) yes, what! :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I remember your feeling that Ramadan this year seemed more significant also
    sophia Placebo: what would walking between 2 mountins 7 times do to your spirits , and why woyld i thraw Satan -virtually - with stones when i know he isnt there , he was there once when ibrahim -ibraham - was there once
    Eliza Madrigal: hm
    sophia Placebo: i graw up i guess thats why things have more meaning to me
    Pema Pera is quietly slipping out, time to get some sleep -- thank you, Sophia, for sharing such vivid impressions -- bfn Sophia and Eliza!
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Night Pema
    sophia Placebo: bye Pema :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Sophia, did you have a more layered impression of why the stones?
    sophia Placebo: yes :)
    sophia Placebo: hmm let me try
    sophia Placebo: we do ablution , washing our hands and face befor each prayer time , we are not meaning the apparent dirt though it is recommnedd to be clean for prayer but it is a reminder to us that thats what you are up to , cleaning the inner dirt
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, you know I wash my hands before meditation almost all the time too... yes that makes great sense...
    Eliza Madrigal: it points to something inward, as you are saying
    Eliza Madrigal: everything does... but please go on. I am listening closely :)
    sophia Placebo: we say a prayer as we do that washing , when we see water we say : thank god who made the water a purefier , we mean that water is enough to get rid of impure fliuds like blood , semen and urine etc , but also one notice that our body holds large amount of that fluid too , water , large amout f pure thing , all living beings are created from water or with water as quraan state

    Bene appears, with onigokko music still playing from the last session he attended in which he started onigokko just as he signed off...

    Benedizione Vita: stop
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bene...you need to stop your onigokko.. can't believe the music entered with you!
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, thanks! hah
    Benedizione Vita: yes, that was weird
    sophia Placebo: hi ben
    Benedizione Vita: hi sophia
    Eliza Madrigal: Sophia was sharing her experience going to the Hajj this year for the first time
    Benedizione Vita: oh wow
    Eliza Madrigal: I'll give you a note to catch you up :)
    Benedizione Vita: that's very nice--congratulations
    Benedizione Vita: unfortunately I can only be an avatar presence today--I am prepping for a final--but I wanted to put an avatar here anyway while I do that ;^)
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, okay... well nice to see your av then...hah
    Eliza Madrigal: Sophia, so you feel that these things make your whole experience of devotion more conscious, in a sense?
    Eliza Madrigal: Meaning... *feeling* the rock...really considering the water....
    sophia Placebo: Hajj is more focused on inner side of self and universe not the appearance of things but we do things physically , and i guess that give you a sense of hard times you get on spritual levels
    Eliza Madrigal: yes that makes sense... when we come up to difficulties... they are 'tangible'.... so Hm...
    Eliza Madrigal: spiritual practice and devotion can't be merely abstract...
    sophia Placebo: in stone case , it is a statment of you to satan that i disagree with you totally , you must mean it and you must be aware of what you do , when you return from hajj you must not do the bad things you did befor cuz you just said your word
    Eliza Madrigal: These rituals, in a sense, bring the lessons alive... into the present life
    sophia Placebo: looool now i said that it reminds me of voodoo game
    Eliza Madrigal: if one is mindful about them I suppose... not if just going along
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
    Eliza Madrigal: yes well... funny lines in talking about these things I guess

    Transparency with self before others...

    sophia Placebo: yep so it is a siritual journey that is represented or acted physically in short
    sophia Placebo: spiritual*
    Eliza Madrigal: I think that's wonderful :)
    sophia Placebo: it is :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Many of the practices I engage in are about developing a kind of sensitivity... makes one very aware of minute intentions, etc...
    Eliza Madrigal: so I definitely relate to how this must be a powerful experience that resonates out into all of life/future/even past, in a way
    Eliza Madrigal: One becomes quite conscious of their motives... as we talked about in the struggle session
    sophia Placebo: transperancy with self befor others
    Eliza Madrigal: Gaya would like follow up with that again, btw, so I will email you :)
    sophia Placebo: sure :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Thanks!
    Eliza Madrigal: There is one thing I wonder... when such a big experience fades from immediate memory....
    Eliza Madrigal: do the smaller things one does to kindle the memory measure up?
    sophia Placebo: when one lose his sensibility
    Eliza Madrigal nods... yes
    sophia Placebo: when one get a heart of stone
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, well maybe not even a heart of stone... but it is easy to 'forget' during daily life
    sophia Placebo: true , but some just forget it for ever
    Eliza Madrigal: Can you entirely forget if something is real to you?
    sophia Placebo: satan did , and i guess many humans did too
    Eliza Madrigal: so interesting
    Eliza Madrigal: My life is made up of millions of little events I think... little rituals...
    Eliza Madrigal: haven't really been part of the large scale sense of community
    Eliza Madrigal: must be quite scope-expanding
    sophia Placebo: :) well you can try it someday and see
    sophia Placebo: engage in some big big event
    Eliza Madrigal: yes some day that might be fun... though I can't think of big buddhist events... Hm...
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Or who knows what events and opportunities will arise :)
    sophia Placebo: marathone or something for a start , or some hmm i dont know what you have
    sophia Placebo: but really it isnt the crowds that count
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    sophia Placebo: though it give the scene more glorius look
    Eliza Madrigal thinks of it like a big heart setting intention
    Eliza Madrigal: with a rhythm and stirring
    sophia Placebo: well , no one there care whats your intentions nor you would have time nor energy to do that
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Eliza Madrigal: So I romanticize things... yes... haha

    After death...

    sophia Placebo: all you must care about is your self cuz that what would count after your death , thats the only thing you would have then
    Eliza Madrigal: So in Islam is there not the sense of unity/oneness/interconnection with others then... I'm sure there must be? Seems the reason not to lie, etc...
    sophia Placebo: no , you dont lie cuz it is wrong regardless there was poepel around or not
    Eliza Madrigal: hm.. so pretty direct then .. 'just don't do it'
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    sophia Placebo: unity in sense of we are all humans regardless of race and social status , brothers in religion peers in humanity
    Eliza Madrigal: but not unity in the sense of being responsible for one another even after death to some degree?
    Eliza Madrigal: Or I guess like in every faith, that is a deep thing...
    sophia Placebo: unity in terms we all vow to worship one god and obey him , and he order of no injust and so his worshppers should attemptd not to harm others weather muslims or non muslims
    sophia Placebo: unity in terms we agree to be on one boat
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes... so the unity is God... Ah, yes... one boat :)))
    Eliza Madrigal: What interesting distinctions... I'm wishing for better words right now!
    sophia Placebo: yep all other things are into an end , so it must not what unite us
    Eliza Madrigal: the more one gets into the distinctions sometimes, the more the essential agreements become apparant
    sophia Placebo nods
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for sharing this morning Sophia, have missed you!
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd better get going... have neglected things at home for a few days and must pay the piper :)
    sophia Placebo: :) me too , i didnt attaned any pab session lately
    sophia Placebo: bye Eliza :) have great weekend
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes I know... I figured you were settling in/reflecting after your trip
    sophia Placebo: noo im lazy person
    Eliza Madrigal giggles... and doubts that!
    sophia Placebo: i was rp and snap shooting and other rl fun stuff
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, that's not lazy... that's play... important too! :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Re creation
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, so nice to see you and have a lovely weekend !
    sophia Placebo: nice to see you too

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