2009.12.12 13:00 - Living is Creating all the time

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    The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hiya you both
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Yakuzza
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Liza
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sorries getting settled at the moment :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: how did you like your log yesterday Yakuzza :))
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, only 4 hrs :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hahaha
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Ive seen you here before Liza, right?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yep
    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Calvino
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey cal
    Liza Deischer: hey cal
    Liza Deischer: right sophia
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i was here only for the first hour of the session
    Yakuzza Lethecus: eliza came back after the pheno session
    SophiaSharon Larnia: well, I came in about 3 hours later ^.^
    SophiaSharon Larnia: does anyone have anything they want to discuss??
    Calvino Rabeni: how about creativity?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: well, i have a thought that Id been meaning to ask
    SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sort of related to creativity
    Calvino Rabeni: 9
    Calvino Rabeni: what is that sophia?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: what are your thought on using sl as a meditative tool for creative expression, building in particular? Is it a valid tool
    Calvino Rabeni: BTW, big lag on chat today ...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
    Calvino Rabeni: are you building things in SL ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: this and that
    Liza Deischer: what do you mean with 'valid'
    SophiaSharon Larnia: there are freebies better than I can make atm
    Liza Deischer: building is different then bying
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I mean valid by a way to really obtain insight into something
    Calvino Rabeni: The chat bubble has .. as if I am typing, but I was not.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I dont see that on my screen :)
    Liza Deischer: what means meditation to you?
    Calvino Rabeni: Anyway, what is a "tool" compared to a practice, for creativ expression?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: good question
    SophiaSharon Larnia: -s
    Calvino Rabeni: I think of a tool, maybe something to build other things
    Calvino Rabeni: Or a tool for meditation - to aid meditation, not to build
    Calvino Rabeni: Like a mandala
    SophiaSharon Larnia: a paintbrush and a canvas can be considered tools, i thought of prims and textures the same way
    Calvino Rabeni: Is "flow" important, and is the mediuim of SL good for that?
    Liza Deischer: do you man Cal that meditation to you is limited to practice
    Liza Deischer: mean


    Calvino Rabeni: Meditation has lots of meanings to me, not sure which you might mean
    Liza Deischer: I know what you mean sophia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: flow is very important to me, and sl is good for that as long as I'm not interupted
    Liza Deischer: but wat i miss is the use of the whole body
    Calvino Rabeni: ZSometimes the difficult thing in these dialogues is choosing between competing threads of ideas
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you, I am not being very clear
    Calvino Rabeni: I understand Liza
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the whole body Liza :)
    Liza Deischer: I miss the grounding
    Calvino Rabeni: The end result could express some creativity - some people have done wonderful art in SL
    Calvino Rabeni: but I miss the ease of immediacy and embidiment
    Calvino Rabeni: Embodiment
    Calvino Rabeni: My creative moments are in the planning and imagining, but when I go to do the building and scripting, it just seems like work
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the grounding bit I hadnt considered... the actual work part does that for me
    Liza Deischer: I still imagine when Im building
    Calvino Rabeni: WHich is why I am getting more attracted to oral arts - like spoken word - because the doing and being are together
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Liza Deischer: I play piano
    Liza Deischer: that includes a lot of layers
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nice :)
    Liza Deischer: from conentratrion, embodiment
    Liza Deischer: different kinds of memories
    Liza Deischer: my whole body antipates
    Liza Deischer: thnx sophia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes a language there, in the music and layers
    Liza Deischer: but playing is the closest thing to meditation to me
    Liza Deischer: when I get up, i feel cleansed (im not sure if I write this right)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i understand
    Liza Deischer: if I get up from my computer I feel stressed, because my head si doing all the work
    Liza Deischer: but sitting here, certainly has an effect
    Liza Deischer: as a contradition
    Liza Deischer: contradiction
    SophiaSharon Larnia: in what way?
    Liza Deischer: there seems to be more room and space
    Liza Deischer: the 90 seconds you can do actually sitting on your chair
    Calvino Rabeni: I like the word Liza, contradiction - how did that come to you?
    Liza Deischer: sl en rl sometimes seem so different and sometimes so alike
    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Eos, long time no see :)
    Liza Deischer: but contradiction to me is the effect it has on my whole being
    Liza Deischer: hi Eos
    Calvino Rabeni: an alternative
    Eos Amaterasu: Am I really there?
    Liza Deischer: I dont know
    SophiaSharon Larnia: as a cloud Eos
    Liza Deischer: i thoght wat is happening behind me :)
    Eos Amaterasu: I'm on an iPhone app, Sparkle
    Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes it is nice for an alternative to present itself forcefully, almost
    Liza Deischer: ye, i agree
    Liza Deischer: hmm he didnt make it
    Calvino Rabeni: IPhone - I guess we are even tinier than usual


    SophiaSharon Larnia: can you say more about an alternative presenting itself forcefully Calvino?
    Calvino Rabeni: It feels like, we don't really control creativity
    Calvino Rabeni: OK
    Calvino Rabeni: an alternative might seem like an idea, like - "I know I could do better, or differently"
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes ive been inspired at the 'worst' times, when in the middle of something :)
    Calvino Rabeni: but sometimes it seems to come from outside oneself
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Calvino Rabeni: and it might be a creative impulse that seems "not me"
    Calvino Rabeni: There are lots of myths, of course
    Calvino Rabeni: Muses for example
    Calvino Rabeni: But as modern people we can also give that some credit
    Calvino Rabeni: And not feel all the time completely responsible for what happens
    Calvino Rabeni: in the creativity department
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the devil made me do it
    Calvino Rabeni: ?
    Calvino Rabeni: Does this make sense ?
    Calvino Rabeni: A benign spirit, not necessarily a devil
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry sometimes creativity comes out of nowhere, like a flash, no not like a devil
    Liza Deischer: the 'not me' I do understand, I think
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh yes definately makes sense
    Calvino Rabeni: It could come from other people
    Calvino Rabeni: Even if they think they are saying something different
    Liza Deischer: but to me, that is like all the parts of me, the consious and unconsious one are somehow working together
    Calvino Rabeni: That seems like a valid idea to me also
    Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes, according to one theory, people "dream up" something for others around them
    SophiaSharon Larnia: that feels like the basis of the matter actually
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (to Liza)
    Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps because they intuitively know - or unconsciously - what the need is
    Liza Deischer: yes, you can ask yourself if the state we described maybe has connections to our surroundings
    Liza Deischer: I think so
    Liza Deischer: but those are parts of me I normally seem to lack in daily life
    Liza Deischer: and I cant define it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nodsnods
    Calvino Rabeni: THe lacking things appear in the other people
    Liza Deischer: thats an interesting thought
    Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes it is nice to get them back to oneself
    Calvino Rabeni: BUt often I'm content to let them keep it
    Calvino Rabeni: Not sure if phenomenology has a word for it...
    Calvino Rabeni: what psychology calls "projection"
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm thinking, maybe phenom is a skill to see it quicker
    Liza Deischer: I think I understand what you mean
    Calvino Rabeni: (If you hang around Kira, one gets lots of ideas :)
    Liza Deischer: but sometimes lacking to me is not being able to reach it
    Calvino Rabeni: Reach it in what sense, can you say?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: do you have a practice or method that helps you reach it Liza?
    Liza Deischer: like it is blocked out
    Liza Deischer: most of the time an awarenessmeditation helps


    Calvino Rabeni: it is that way for me also.
    Liza Deischer: but ina way that I can actually use it, only when Im playing the piano
    Liza Deischer: coing back to creativity
    Liza Deischer: coming
    SophiaSharon Larnia: finding the medium for expression that bypasses the barriers in some way
    Calvino Rabeni: meditation has indirect effects, I try to keep in mind
    Liza Deischer: true
    Calvino Rabeni: The "some way" is invisible
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, like pounding on an open door
    Calvino Rabeni: BUt I notice when the "space" is there
    Calvino Rabeni: And also when it starts to go away
    Calvino Rabeni: Do you notice this kind of thing?
    Liza Deischer: yes, I understand what you mean
    Liza Deischer: I like the pounding on an open door
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (it is not mine i borrowed it lol)
    Liza Deischer: still like it :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i understand what you mean Calvino about the feel the space
    SophiaSharon Larnia: of*
    Calvino Rabeni: Identification and some kinds of emotions seem to block the creativity or close the "space"
    Liza Deischer: I think that is the right word: identification
    Calvino Rabeni: It might feel good, or bad
    Liza Deischer: or wanting to identifiy yourself with, but that is more psychology
    Liza Deischer: drawin yourself away from yourself
    Calvino Rabeni: nice
    Calvino Rabeni: that doesn't seem really about who, or where.
    Calvino Rabeni: In that sometimes I feel most myself when my attention is on others
    Liza Deischer: right
    Liza Deischer: it is not the who or where but the need for identification or the identification self
    Liza Deischer: can be anything
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't think I've ever had a dlalogue before about this - inner sense of discrimination
    Calvino Rabeni: Do people have an inner compass?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i think so
    Calvino Rabeni: As in, how to know when going the right direction
    Calvino Rabeni: since it isn't defined by externals and objects
    Liza Deischer: I know a have
    Liza Deischer: but like my inventory
    Liza Deischer: it is sometims hard to find :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Calvino Rabeni: easy to get turned around sometimes
    Liza Deischer: meaning?
    Calvino Rabeni: emotional expression seems like a tricky one
    Calvino Rabeni: You start in one direction, and it appears to be right
    SophiaSharon Larnia: an inner compass to me is emotional, if something feels right... but this is judgemental in a way
    Calvino Rabeni: later going in the same appearent direction, doing the same thing, it is no longer right
    Calvino Rabeni: something important has changed, without noticing it


    Liza Deischer: I think context is imported here
    Calvino Rabeni: I agree about context, I think.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: attempted to drop during the 90 sec and thinking about an inner compass :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: very ephemeral
    Liza Deischer: I think then whe you take an action...
    Liza Deischer: or anykind....
    Liza Deischer: you influence yourself and/or your surroundings....
    Liza Deischer: so you change the context....
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes an ongoing process
    Liza Deischer: which means you cant do the same thing twice....
    Liza Deischer: and expect it to work again
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: never exactly the same again
    Calvino Rabeni: true action can't be made mechanical I would say
    Liza Deischer: I certainly realise that this is for me one of the most intriguing and interesting thing about life
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thats what creativity feel like to me, never the same
    Calvino Rabeni: I am intrigued that you are intrigued :)
    Liza Deischer: exactly
    Liza Deischer: thank you for making me realise
    Liza Deischer: it cant be mechanical, I agree
    Calvino Rabeni: it is a subtle thing, following a delicate thread
    Liza Deischer: life requires movement
    Calvino Rabeni: in a way, continually re-created
    Liza Deischer: true, I think
    Calvino Rabeni: that is creativity, in a microscopic way
    Liza Deischer: yes, you could say living is creating all the time :)
    Liza Deischer: nice
    Calvino Rabeni: It reminded me of a poem I heard
    Calvino Rabeni:    There's a thread you follow. It goes among

                               things that change. But it doesn't change.

                               People wonder about what you are pursuing.

                               You have to explain about the thread.

                               But it is hard for others to see.


                               While you hold it you can't get lost.

                               Tragedies happen; people get hurt

                               or die; and you suffer and get old.


                               Nothing you do can stop time's unfolding.

                               You don't ever let go of the thread.

                                                                       ~ William Stafford ~
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Liza Deischer: like the poem
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to log off, nice talking to you :)
    Calvino Rabeni: That poet had poetry as a meditation like practice
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ah interesting Calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: OK sophiq, good talking - see you later :)
    Liza Deischer: bye Sophia
    Liza Deischer: i need to go too
    Liza Deischer: but it was very interesting
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye Liza
    Liza Deischer: thank you
    Liza Deischer: bye Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks
    Calvino Rabeni: CU
    Yakuzza Lethecus: night calving
    Calvino Rabeni: Yaku-san is meditating with green tea
    Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, i was reading :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and thinking about if making music can be part of meditating as well


    Calvino Rabeni: I was singing today with a group - it definitely was meditation
    Yakuzza Lethecus: are you using voice sometimes in second life ?
    Calvino Rabeni: not yet, other then the open-mic poetry readings, where so far I listen rather than read
    Yakuzza Lethecus: in real life i am often a bit scared about doing new things because irrationally i care to much about how i might get percieved
    Calvino Rabeni: What I was referring today was in person, in a big room
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so i even think while i try to do something new and can´t really fall itno the situation
    Yakuzza Lethecus: do you have a micro ?
    Calvino Rabeni: I just turned it up - I hear you
    Calvino Rabeni: THis is an old laptop - not a mic

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