2009.12.15 07:00 - Park the "I don't ..."

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways.

    Riddle Sideways: howdee, just missed the notice... when is/was the grand opening
    Riddle Sideways: ah, good morning Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Riddle :) Hope I didn't disturb deep contemplation :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pablito, nice to see you again!
    Riddle Sideways: was in deep contemplation. so deep my neck is hurting
    Eliza Madrigal: Oooh, that won't do...
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Pablito
    pablito Steampunk: is this another play at being session?
    pablito Steampunk: Hi Riddle :)
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes... sessions every 6 hrs :)
    pablito Steampunk: on whta hr?
    Riddle Sideways: 1,7,1,7
    pablito Steampunk: nice setup
    Riddle Sideways: so, you have been to other sessions?
    pablito Steampunk: once before, but only towards the end?
    Eliza Madrigal: pablito wandered in for a surprise session... hah... was about 2 hrs in...
    Eliza Madrigal: as did I that day... then we took it to a 3rd hr!
    Riddle Sideways: ah, then you probably missed the light hellos part :)
    pablito Steampunk: yes, big sess
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    pablito Steampunk: yes, hellos start to become tedious when you start attending sessions like these :)
    Riddle Sideways: many sessions get interesting just as people start to leave
    Eliza Madrigal: pablito likes Alan Watts, Riddle... and I was reminded of the audio you sent out once of his...
    pablito Steampunk: frequently that is
    Riddle Sideways: like so many things, it gets to be really good about time to leave
    pablito Steampunk: yes, my main mentor on life Alan Watts :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Think we do that intentionally Riddle? hehehe
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yakuzza :)
    Riddle Sideways: hi Yak
    pablito Steampunk: hi Yakuzza
    Eliza Madrigal: thinks of scratching surfacees as 'Being teasing'
    Riddle Sideways: hmmm, Being Tested?
    pablito Steampunk: just read your 2nd life profile Yakuzza, nice interests :)
    pablito Steampunk: ah snow
    Eliza Madrigal: !!! Riddle, re testing :)
    Eliza Madrigal reads Ya's profile, which I don't think I've ever done... heh.. curious but incompetent?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yep, thats why i sit around quiet most of the time :)
    Riddle Sideways thinks Yak is not very imcompetent
    Eliza Madrigal grins and agrees
    pablito Steampunk: watching our psychologies?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i hope not, but i want to keep the expectations low
    pablito Steampunk: yes, expectations can be a killer lol
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and i am really a beginner on both topics, but how to keep in contact with those topics in a positive way ?
    pablito Steampunk: do you read books on the subject?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: real life does provide many philosophical topics but not with references who talked about those issues first or in any structurized way
    Eliza Madrigal wonders about playing as incompetent
    Riddle Sideways: many , play as incompetent so others will do things for them :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, i hope that i am not incompetent doesn´t mean that i know what i think i have to know to say i know enough to be competent :)
    Riddle Sideways: hope not
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) so incompetent is a stated expectation
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for example i don´t know what to say in a session like the time workshop
    pablito Steampunk: i think we can get too rigiid in our focus on these topics sometimes though, to the point of dulling the situation perhaps?
    Eliza Madrigal: flattening the landscape, pablito?
    Riddle Sideways: can go many years silent before parking the "I don't know enough" on the side and having some fun
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal is learning to park the 'i don't know enough'..'yet'...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, i just don´t want anyone to expect to much and then get dissappointet thats about it because i try sometimes to talk about things like the men "watching at eliza"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: meno
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but most of the people don´t know me and i don´t want anyone to even anticipate that i might be a philosopher
    Yakuzza Lethecus: especially since i met hell of alot in second life who studied it
    pablito Steampunk: wrong impressions, is that a crisis?
    Riddle Sideways: hope not
    pablito Steampunk: lol
    Yakuzza Lethecus: around thothica and kira are much more academics then i´ve ever seen in real life ,,thats easy by the way"
    Eliza Madrigal: it seems helpful for 'academics' to frolic with the non... we all get into our normal frameworks and ways of approaching things...
    pablito Steampunk: but academics are fallible beings at times aswell
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i like for example the issue that the ppl interested in buddism around kira like piet and stim have not only that profession
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, and then we all get to see things freshly...
    pablito Steampunk: an academic is a specialized thinker
    Yakuzza Lethecus: stim as phil of science and piet as astrophysisist
    Eliza Madrigal: Some of the most interesting things I find, come from my chidlren... precisely because they haven't had the 'background' yet...
    Eliza Madrigal: and they remind me....
    Eliza Madrigal: so drop it and find the 'first joy' of something...
    pablito Steampunk: yes
    pablito Steampunk: it seems to be a lesson in non rigidity
    Yakuzza Lethecus: dropping by nature :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Eliza Madrigal: Pema and Stim have that sense about things... lots of 'thinkers'...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: we screw our minds by nurture :P
    Eliza Madrigal: wonder
    pablito Steampunk: yes, if you stya in your own nature and not be swayed by others, peace should be there within
    Riddle Sideways: dropping things is not a sign of incompetence
    Eliza Madrigal: surely.. one must have a sense of ground/trust/confidence to release?
    pablito Steampunk: in what way do you mean dropping things?
    Eliza Madrigal: the peace within... as that ground perhaps...
    Riddle Sideways: holding loosely
    pablito Steampunk: like letting go?
    Riddle Sideways: if you find staying in your own nature too rigid, try holding it looser
    Riddle Sideways: the peace is within and without, try looking both places (and others)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    pablito Steampunk: look everywhere basically, don't limit your observations
    Eliza Madrigal nods... maybe even dropping fear of 'exposure'...
    Riddle Sideways: staying grounded is a good thing
    Riddle Sideways: flying free is good too
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the point is ,,just being", but also a matter of constant change
    Eliza Madrigal: yes thats the ground, in a way
    pablito Steampunk: yes, being and openess seem very similar
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think in the past i knew what i could and couldn not and even tried to be authentic in things i think i could have done if i woulnd´t have believed otherwise
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so i became more stuck in a set of retarding believes...
    Eliza Madrigal: hm... grasping authenticity... what an idea
    Eliza Madrigal: we're so silly :)
    pablito Steampunk: yes, its a good philosophy
    pablito Steampunk: are you an authentic being? :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no i am authentic in trying :)
    pablito Steampunk: yes
    Riddle Sideways wonders what that really means
    pablito Steampunk: we all have our interpretations i guess
    pablito Steampunk: mine is, sticking to what is the good things of life
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for me it meant that i don´t understand what i ,,want to become" or ,,what the good way of being is"
    Eliza Madrigal hopes to be a portal for experieincing authenticity perhaps... unearthing joy, in a way
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i try to elaborate on my personal idea of being
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i can´t be authentic in being when i don´t know what ,,true being is"
    pablito Steampunk: the more authentic you are, the more naturally you will become a portal for authenticity
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for me i can only be authentic if i say ,,i try" no matter if successful or not
    Riddle Sideways: YESSSS, you are all right
    Riddle Sideways: at least at those moments :]
    Eliza Madrigal: leaping... parking the "I don't know enough"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, that thought also prevent me from dopping
    pablito Steampunk: when you don't speak you know
    pablito Steampunk: lol
    Yakuzza Lethecus: those excuses like ,,i don´t know enough" are bad for me
    Eliza Madrigal: hah, pablito
    Riddle Sideways: funny how crutches are neccessary to help you stand, but need to be discarded
    Eliza Madrigal: all boats and tools
    pablito Steampunk: yes, evrything is a husk, that needs to be dispelled in the end
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i often have those doubts and don´t loose even the verbalized doubt´s in my head and create a self fullfilling prophecy by just thinking about ,,not to screw up"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i literally think that i don´t want to screw up and have problems on a topic at the same time while leaving the topic totally out
    Eliza Madrigal: easy to do, Ya... and possible to relax when one knows everyone has that tendency ... that it is normal and able to be relaxed
    Riddle Sideways: see how things got interesting at 10 of the hour
    pablito Steampunk: i see
    Riddle Sideways: funny image... can't relax because might screw it up :)
    pablito Steampunk: isn't life eternalling intersting, isn't it just a question of your state of mind?
    pablito Steampunk: eternally*
    Riddle Sideways: and your point of view
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe, true... and there is the question of what we are relaxing into... and that place/state..yes... eternally fascinating it seems :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I read something nice yesterday... may I share? Huang Po...
    pablito Steampunk: oh do tell
    Riddle Sideways: please do
    Eliza Madrigal: :) K...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Consider the sunlight. You may say it is near, yet if you follow it from world to world you will never catch it in your hands. Then you may describe it as far away, and you will see it just before your eyes. Follow it, and behold, it escapes you; run from it, and it follows you close. You can neither possess it, nor have done with it. From this example you can understand how it is with the true Nature of all things, and henceforth, there will be no need to grieve or to worry about such things. :)
    Eliza Madrigal: So simple... but comforting :)
    pablito Steampunk: yes, the simple observations of life explains alot
    pablito Steampunk: nice
    Eliza Madrigal: I thought it was funny that we often remind ourselves of 'not possessing', but that he says 'nor have done with it' was inpsiring :)
    Eliza Madrigal: it was helpful when reading through the 0th time theme sessions... haha
    pablito Steampunk: yes, there is a constant inner struggle of not becoming posssesed lol
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahahaa
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i got to go, bye everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Ya :)
    pablito Steampunk: these meditations are like exocising experiences against that possessive state of mind
    pablito Steampunk: bye Yak :)
    pablito Steampunk: exorcising*
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes definitely! Opening windows, allowing circulation ...
    Eliza Madrigal: nothing 'sticks'
    Eliza Madrigal: Unkeeping :)
    pablito Steampunk: keeping the mind fluid and open
    pablito Steampunk: thats how i normally feel after the meditation sessions
    Eliza Madrigal: how do you experience that?
    Eliza Madrigal: I know it is funny to ask and frame... but what does fluid and open mind seem like?
    pablito Steampunk: by letting go of all my thought processes
    pablito Steampunk: like my functional state of mind for instance
    Eliza Madrigal: goals?
    pablito Steampunk: get rid of the interminable chatter in your head lol
    pablito Steampunk: it there is a goal, mediatations seem to lead me to letting go and tuning into the present as best as possible
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    pablito Steampunk: is that the same sense for you two?
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    pablito Steampunk: :)
    Eliza Madrigal nods... I'd say so...
    pablito Steampunk: ah oneness
    Eliza Madrigal: For a while I was trying to 'stop chattering'... and that wasn't so helpful...
    Riddle Sideways: or the watching of those thought s pass by
    pablito Steampunk: yes, trying can be the problem haha
    Eliza Madrigal: but letting the chattering pass through the open windows... clouds through the sky....
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
    Riddle Sideways: stopping and trying are hard... easy to watch them go away
    Riddle Sideways: park yourself in the "I don't really care" zone and watch the parade
    pablito Steampunk: yes, its the gripping sense thats the problem
    Riddle Sideways: your thoughts, worries, stuff will go by
    Eliza Madrigal: when I began to just let things go by.. then one day I was in a shoe store with my daughter and I thought "Oh, its not happening!" The default was quiet... but noticing I kind of stepped back in. hah
    Eliza Madrigal: It was startling though, I wanted to walk up to someone and say "Did you see that!?"
    Eliza Madrigal: "Look: Quiet!"
    Riddle Sideways: :D
    Riddle Sideways: and when you were not thinking that would be a quiet place
    pablito Steampunk: doesn't all this meditation lead to a finely tuned perception of reality?
    Eliza Madrigal nods... and it seemed a natural place... not something made up
    Eliza Madrigal: or a coping skill :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Seems so pablito :))
    pablito Steampunk: yes
    pablito Steampunk: whatever reality is lol
    Eliza Madrigal: what is life... yes fun questions :) Thanks for this lovely morning :)
    Riddle Sideways: sorry, need to go
    pablito Steampunk: ty too
    pablito Steampunk: ok Riddle
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Riddle, good to see you!
    pablito Steampunk: me too
    pablito Steampunk: bye
    pablito Steampunk: ty Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you again pablito! :)
    pablito Steampunk: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Adios for now
    pablito Steampunk: you too
    pablito Steampunk: adios amiga
    pablito Steampunk: :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles and waves
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