2009.12.15 19:00 - Looking Up, Ground Rising Up

    Table of contents
    No headers


    The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu. This was a second theme session on Facilitation, hosted by Calvino and Eos.


    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Calvino




    Calvino Rabeni: Hello Eos
    Calvino Rabeni: How go things?
    Eos Amaterasu: There's many of them, all flying around in both space and time around me... and you?
    Calvino Rabeni: On the way to being settled, after the flying around for a while
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: waiting for the new magic board to appear to no avail
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello'
    Calvino Rabeni: ah, that. I forgot to try it
    Eos Amaterasu: I haven't looked around for it - you mean the link to the themes page?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes. I usually get here in a disoriented state - have no idea what direction thing are
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Siworae :-)
    Lila Darkmatter: Hi :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Lila , that is
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Arch
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello Cal, Lia, Eos, Steve
    Calvino Rabeni: Siworae sounds greek ?
    stevenaia Michinaga: waiting for pillows to rezz,
    Lila Darkmatter: It is from a film Calvino, that my friend likes but I've never seen
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Lila are you invisible, or not quite rezzed ?
    Lila Darkmatter: good question... I see me
    Archmage Atlantis: An Asian film?
    Lila Darkmatter: yes
    Eos Amaterasu: I see you, Lila
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: You are darkmatter I guess :)
    Lila Darkmatter: :))
    Lila Darkmatter: Lightened darkmatter now I hope... all clear?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I see her fine and I'm streaming vid in another window
    Archmage Atlantis: South Korean - "Love beyond Time and Space?" - is that correct
    Lila Darkmatter: If you have seen the film "Lake House", it is the original of that
    Eos Amaterasu: Next book after Time, Space, Knowledge?
    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, yes....and I remember the reference now.....I've seen it before
    Lila Darkmatter: :)

    Lila Darkmatter: Love is the greatest facilitator perhaps :)
    Archmage Atlantis: There have been many debates as to the meaning of "Love".....it is a word we use rather freely
    stevenaia Michinaga: brb




    The paradox of holding openness


    Calvino Rabeni: Eos, do you have ideas for the theme session?
    Eos Amaterasu: Well, one theme from the last guardian meeting was that of control
    Eos Amaterasu: There's a tension there
    Eos Amaterasu: Of holding, maybe a container, maybe a process, maybe a potential
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, let's combine control and container
    Eos Amaterasu: And wanting to allow it to emerge, but not wanting to be too directional or prescriptive
    Calvino Rabeni: To get the yang and yin of it
    Eos Amaterasu: This space, the Playgoda, so-called, is a facilitator
    Archmage Atlantis: As the earth holds us and the atmosphere with it's gravity, and thus contains us?
    Calvino Rabeni: it is a type of container
    Eos Amaterasu: In some ways it's very fixed. It's also open. It suggests some forms, or allows them, or echoes them
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must go
    Calvino Rabeni: very good to remember that too
    Eos Amaterasu: bye ST
    Calvino Rabeni: (the earth)
    Archmage Atlantis: Bye Steve
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye, stevenaia
    Calvino Rabeni: I have been contemplating a metaphor for container
    Eos Amaterasu: and even the earth is not separate from our intentions, our actions, as it holds us
    Calvino Rabeni: several actually

    The Art of Hosting

    Calvino Rabeni: but one I like lately is "the art of hosting"
    Calvino Rabeni: the guardian is a host
    Eos Amaterasu: Ah, yes :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: it's like the person responsible for holding the container for everyone attending an event
    Calvino Rabeni: so they have a good time, and all get along with each other
    Eos Amaterasu: Like being a host at a party, or dinner
    Calvino Rabeni: I think, looking for an old-fachioned book on the etiquette of that could provide some ideas that are useful
    Eos Amaterasu: You're there, but you're also on the job, caring for the flows
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Calvino Rabeni: you circulate, make sure people are included
    Calvino Rabeni: take care of some of their needs
    Eos Amaterasu: That starts with preparing the space
    Calvino Rabeni: make it beautiful, fun, balanced
    Eos Amaterasu: maybe arranging the furniture, where people can sit, eat, even dance!
    Calvino Rabeni: and accommodating

    Eos Amaterasu: (like the upcoming PaB party!)
    Calvino Rabeni: :)

    Eos Amaterasu: We create kind of an image of how we would like to be
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, an image, a possibility - that can be accepted, but not imposed

    Different rooms for different states of party

    Lila Darkmatter: There should be space where people can be quiet and yet part of things...too
    Calvino Rabeni: nice point
    Calvino Rabeni: To make space for people of different characters
    Lila Darkmatter: maybe even dark corners... hehe
    Calvino Rabeni: maybe they are tired, or introverted, or want to beinternal
    Archmage Atlantis: I suppose, though, that different individuals may have different images, ideas of possiblities - for example, my great room has all the furniture arranged in a cicle, like this place, so all will participate together, rather than sitting in separate groups
    Lila Darkmatter grew up in a house with a great room... always loved that term
    Archmage Atlantis: While others may feel small group discussions are more valuable
    Calvino Rabeni: Many I know have places set up for that in their houses also
    Archmage Atlantis: In both tho the host plays the role of facilitator
    Calvino Rabeni: I host groups and always, it gives me energy
    Eos Amaterasu: rhythm, in both space and time, can help accomodate spectrum of ways and needs
    Lila Darkmatter nods
    Eos Amaterasu: different rooms
    Eos Amaterasu: the kitchen, the bck porch
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, imagining the perfect party
    Calvino Rabeni: where anything good can happen
    Eos Amaterasu: 90 secs as a party?
    Eos Amaterasu: "party" is interesting institution, in some sense to celebrate being, with not much purpose beyond that



    Archmage Atlantis: Maybe not the 90 seconds per se, but the discussion afterward,
    Lila Darkmatter imagines a dinner party with periodic pauses to reflect/give thanks... maybe toast :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Toasts are a great tradition
    Calvino Rabeni: there is a function I think is important
    Archmage Atlantis: To truely host an event, one must be very aware
    Archmage Atlantis: Of the individuals
    Archmage Atlantis: Of the group dynamics
    Calvino Rabeni: when people's wildness comes out in a social environment like that
    Calvino Rabeni: it is very validating and humanizing
    Eos Amaterasu:
    "Come on down to the Mermaid Café and I will buy you a bottle of wine 
    And we'll laugh and toast to nothing and smash our empty glasses down" - Joni Mitchell
    Lila Darkmatter: hm, yes Arch... sensitive... watch-full
    Calvino Rabeni: right, AA, the host needs a lot of awareness
    Lila Darkmatter: Toasting to nothing.. hehe :)
    Calvino Rabeni: and based in caring
    Eos Amaterasu: caring for the space of the party, where things are very vivid, very open
    Eos Amaterasu: maybe encouraging the vividness
    Eos Amaterasu: but also picking up the broken glass :-)

    Breakage and caring

    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Cal, in caring that each individual shares in the joy of the experience
    Calvino Rabeni: there is an alchemy of community that can occur there
    Archmage Atlantis: Literally, or figuratively Eos, .....they are different......As host, I may ask another's help to clean up a physical broken glass
    Lila Darkmatter: Sometimes clean up is the fun part :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Like a dinner that takes an hour to eat, but the prep is 6 hours, plus 4 hours afterwards
    Archmage Atlantis: But if the broken glass is a metaphor for conflict, disagreement, or other feelings
    Archmage Atlantis: Then as host, that is my personal responsibility to repair
    Calvino Rabeni: Or breaking unnecessary restrictions
    Calvino Rabeni: Things get a little broken during Carnival
    Eos Amaterasu: Some encouragement to go beyond, perhaps to break, with some care around that
    Calvino Rabeni: Which is like a huge party, not hosted by any one person
    Eos Amaterasu: Huge parties tend to take months to prep for
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes Eos, that is a careful matter
    Archmage Atlantis: Carnival? as in South America or the islands?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, or festivals in Spain, or - in the USA there is one in New Orleans
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes
    Lila Darkmatter: breaking with care ... hm, that's one to consider...
    Archmage Atlantis: Actually, that is a very interesting observation Lila
    Eos Amaterasu: use enjoyment to push past the comfort zone
    Archmage Atlantis: Can one break things with care, especially in a large unruly group
    Calvino Rabeni: A quotation from W. Blake - you can't know what is enough until you know what is more than enough
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: sometimes you play music that cools the energy down
    Eos Amaterasu: sometimes you let it build up
    Archmage Atlantis: Some might call that being a puppet master
    Eos Amaterasu: if it's manipulative that comes across as such
    Lila Darkmatter nods
    Eos Amaterasu: what is the goal... we are playing with goal... in fact, we play with "starting at the end" :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: what then?
    Eos Amaterasu: 90 sec theme: start at the end? what if no if? no if!



    Lila Darkmatter: !
    Archmage Atlantis: By definition it "manipulates" as it influences behavior.....and I do not find that objectionable, if it is for the enjoyment and general protection of the crowd
    Lila Darkmatter: yes, What, in absence of if...
    Calvino Rabeni: any experiences during the pause, to report?
    Eos Amaterasu listens
    Archmage Atlantis: Words are such tricky things......that was the place I went
    Calvino Rabeni: I went to - "what is the IF" and what happens if I drop it?
    Calvino Rabeni: From the discussion, the "IF" was like , looking around at the context for permission and signs about what the container would support
    Lila Darkmatter: I just smiled a lot, truth be told :)
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: with no if, there's nowhere to go - just the here .... bigger even than just "here"
    Lila Darkmatter: here is still somewhere
    Archmage Atlantis: The tickling of ideas upon the stings of the neurons :)
    Calvino Rabeni: when I dropped it I felt, falling into a bigger space and grounding there instead
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: grounding had to happen, apparently
    Calvino Rabeni: the neurons - stings, strings, - the stings and arrowsof outrageous (etc.)
    Eos Amaterasu: sometimes we can think of the 9secs or 90secs as a kind of if, little puncture in the solidity, pre-occupation fabric

    Ground arising as one walks

    Lila Darkmatter: ground arising as one walks i wonder... is that a kind of container?
    Calvino Rabeni: there are 2 ifs.
    Eos Amaterasu: but the more we puncture into it we realize that's already there, and much bigger than our little fabrics
    Lila Darkmatter: hm
    Calvino Rabeni: sht one you let go, and the "what else is true"
    Calvino Rabeni: I relate, eos, to that
    Lila Darkmatter nods
    Eos Amaterasu: "what else is true" and "ground arising"
    Calvino Rabeni: ground arising. That evokes a meditation experience
    Eos Amaterasu: 
    "If the meditator is able to use whatever occurs in his life as the Path,
    his body becomes a retreat hut." - Jigme LIngpa
    Lila Darkmatter: Wonderful quote!


    Calvino Rabeni: posture is important
    Lila Darkmatter checks hers
    Calvino Rabeni: .. to be immediate and mundane
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    Eos Amaterasu sits up
    Calvino Rabeni: think with the body
    Lila Darkmatter: hm, distribution
    Calvino Rabeni: the body realm is much more familiar - to me the group realm remains simewhat mysterious
    Archmage Atlantis: Slides down to be contrarian
    Calvino Rabeni: somewhat. (will learn to type eventually)
    Archmage Atlantis: Then has to sit up to type
    Lila Darkmatter: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Body gestures, like through posture, help group co herence
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: expressed rhythm and energy
    Eos Amaterasu: body attends, harkens
    Calvino Rabeni: immediate communication
    Archmage Atlantis: I planted a Baobob Tree in the field behind my SL living space today......it came to me in a dream a couple of weeks ago
    Calvino Rabeni: Where is your SL place, Arch?
    Lila Darkmatter: baobob tree, Arch? I've never heard of that... neat
    Archmage Atlantis: It is tall




    Archmage Atlantis: Well as always my spelling is off
    Lila Darkmatter: ooh the 'upside down' tree! I've seen one of those before... really neat.
    Archmage Atlantis: "Baobab"
    Eos Amaterasu: African
    Archmage Atlantis: I dreamed I was walking toward it through a field, and then recognized it from a species memory
    Archmage Atlantis: Odd dream
    Archmage Atlantis: So I planted one
    Lila Darkmatter: :) SL seems a good medium for acting out dreams sometimes :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, it is
    Lila Darkmatter: Thanks guys. Night :)
    Eos Amaterasu: 'night, Lila!
    Calvino Rabeni: good night Lila
    Lila Darkmatter: Pleasant dreams all
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, it is that time, night Lila, nite Cal, Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: Night Arch!


    Calvino and Eos talk circle of safety

    Calvino Rabeni: I like your facilitation of these groups, Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: Oh, thanks, this is a learning experience for me
    Calvino Rabeni: your timing with the pause
    Calvino Rabeni: seem aware of it
    Calvino Rabeni: I am enjoying it as a learning experience also
    Calvino Rabeni: I wanted to bring something up with Arch, but he slipped away
    Eos Amaterasu: Ah... hopefully occasion will come up again
    Calvino Rabeni: no doubt it wil
    Calvino Rabeni: Yesterday I was at the formation of a new group
    Calvino Rabeni: which has happened a lot - seems to have the same themes usually
    Calvino Rabeni: it is somewhat mysterious
    Calvino Rabeni: the issue of structure gets kicked around, usually without giving it a name
    Calvino Rabeni: sometimes it gets resolved - but sometimes it lives on and on
    Calvino Rabeni: interesting
    Eos Amaterasu: words like "structure" and "control" are pretty loaded
    Calvino Rabeni: very, it almost hurts to say them :)
    Eos Amaterasu: we don't want to be boxed in ,but we do want to be enabled
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, and sheltered
    Eos Amaterasu: circle of safety for the exploration?
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: ground and periphery
    Calvino Rabeni: maybe different, eh?
    Eos Amaterasu: boundary and openness
    Calvino Rabeni: ground defines what you can depend on
    Calvino Rabeni: in one way, all force comes from the ground
    Calvino Rabeni: ultimately, the earth
    Calvino Rabeni: periphery is how far you can extend
    Calvino Rabeni: before getting off-center and collapsing
    Eos Amaterasu: little animals are very experimental when their mommas are close by
    Calvino Rabeni: good example




    Calvino Rabeni: when mother is gone, they hide / contract :)
    Eos Amaterasu: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: I think we all have a mother archetype
    Eos Amaterasu: there's also the flip side
    Eos Amaterasu: without playfulness, animals, we, don't leave the safe ground
    Eos Amaterasu: and end up not surviving as well
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello, Chastity :)
    Chastity Tungsten: Hi
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Chastity
    Chastity Tungsten: Hi
    Calvino Rabeni: Eos, dinner calls - thanks for the talk
    Calvino Rabeni: See you later
    Eos Amaterasu: Bye Cal!

    Chastity searches for "Science", and finds PaB

    Eos Amaterasu: Have you been here before?
    Chastity Tungsten: I have not been here before.
    Eos Amaterasu: We do "Play as Being" here, 4 times a day, people get together from all over
    Chastity Tungsten: Yes, I see.
    Eos Amaterasu: to talk, practice reality, how we experience it, play at it
    Chastity Tungsten: You are the last one here today.
    Eos Amaterasu: I'll give you a notecard
    Eos Amaterasu: the conversations here are logged, recorded, and then put up on a wiki - is that okay?
    Chastity Tungsten: Yes, I think it is, most times.
    Eos Amaterasu: Did you accidentally wander by, or did you hear about Play as Being (PaB)?
    Chastity Tungsten: I found you by seaching "Science" with only PG checked.
    Eos Amaterasu: Cool!
    Chastity Tungsten: I have fondness for people who actively define themselves.
    Eos Amaterasu: Pab actually came from a "ways of knowing" project at the program for interdisciplinary studies at Princeton Institute for Advanced Studies
    Chastity Tungsten: Princeton, England?
    Eos Amaterasu: here in Second Life
    Eos Amaterasu: no, Princeton, New Jersey
    Eos Amaterasu gives more detailed notecard

    Look up

    Eos Amaterasu: Come have a seat (right-click on a cushion)
    Chastity Tungsten: Thank you for inviting me to sit.
    Eos Amaterasu: The main experimental playground is with just letting awareness be, and seeing what happens
    Chastity Tungsten: Interesting.
    Eos Amaterasu: The 9 seconds, or 90 seconds, practice is to just suspend, drop the rush, so to speak, and let things speak for themselves
    Eos Amaterasu: During these meeting every 15 minutes a bell rings, and a mist rises from the pool :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: and there's a 90 seconds pause
    Eos Amaterasu: during which you just don't do anything, just rest awarely
    Eos Amaterasu: "appreciate the presence of appearance"
    Chastity Tungsten: Look up.
    Eos Amaterasu: Can u say more about "look up"?
    Chastity Tungsten: I am mildly autistic. I spend much of my time in my head.
    Eos Amaterasu: Ah....
    Chastity Tungsten: Looking up is making an effort to look out of my head and see what is around me.
    Eos Amaterasu: a 90 secs is coming up, by the way, so yes
    Eos Amaterasu: look up, listen up.... let be




    Chastity Tungsten: I mostly do that in supermarkets.
    Eos Amaterasu: How was that?
    Chastity Tungsten: That seemed fine.
    Eos Amaterasu: I like that there are sounds here, birds
    Eos Amaterasu: also snowflakes :-)
    Chastity Tungsten: I find the snow a little annoying, but that's just me.
    Eos Amaterasu: What did you experience during the 90 secs?
    Chastity Tungsten: I looked at the sim for about 12 seconds. Then my cat yawned and asked for a hug. Then I went back in to my head for a little while. Then I look at my monitors some more. Then I notice your bell is very polite.
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Eos Amaterasu is curious how the bell is polite
    Chastity Tungsten: It says, "Thank you".
    Eos Amaterasu: That's cool, yes, never really thought of it that way before
    Eos Amaterasu: Chastity, it is getting very late here, so I have to leave, but please come back again
    Eos Amaterasu: There are sessions here 4 times a day, so different time zones can take part
    Chastity Tungsten: I understand. You were the last and I came at the end. Thank you for chatting.
    Eos Amaterasu: 1 am, 7 am, 1 pm, 7 pm
    Eos Amaterasu: Nice to meet you - good night!
    Chastity Tungsten: Good night.
    Tag page (Edit tags)
    • No tags
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core