2009.12.18 01:00 - Poetry will always be better than TV

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    Wol Euler was guardian and commenter for this session.


    I sat on my own for a while. 

    Wol Euler: Well, dear Wol, here we are at your last Friday 1am of the year.
    Wol Euler: yes, Wol, it's amazing how the time flies. How long have I been a guardian, I wonder?


    Calvino arrived while I was searching for the answer in the wiki logs. 

    Wol Euler: hello calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: Good day!
    Wol Euler: this is early for you, or late?
    Calvino Rabeni: It is a bit too late here
    Wol Euler smiles
    Wol Euler: but not *too* too late?
    Calvino Rabeni: heh :)
    Calvino Rabeni: It takes several toos to be too-too if you know what I mean
    Wol Euler: yeah
    Wol Euler: the joy and curse of online life: just another five minutes, just one more prim in the right place, just one more improvement to the script …
    Calvino Rabeni: that is the hacker mentality - just ome more compile, or whatever, round the cycle you go
    Calvino Rabeni: The brain makes its own alertness chemical
    Wol Euler: right :)
    Wol Euler: but that chemical has a hangover nearly as bad as alcohol, if you get enough (too much) of it
    Calvino Rabeni: luckily there are countermeasures
    Calvino Rabeni: or I would have been doomed for sure
    Wol Euler: heheh
    Calvino Rabeni: One learns ones own limits
    Calvino Rabeni: by excess, if I remember a maxim by william blake
    Wol Euler: or William Burroughs



    An old friend returns during the extended silence that followed the bell.

    Wol Euler: hello strannik, haven't seen you in quite a while
    Strannik Zipper: hello - haven't been here for a while
    Strannik Zipper: (are we still in the quiet period - I can't tell)
    Wol Euler: no, we're being quiet but just for fun (as it were)
    Strannik Zipper: ah
    Wol Euler: calvino might have fallen asleep at the keyboard
    Strannik Zipper: hahaha


    Calvino changes his tag to read "alert and chipper". 

    Strannik Zipper: no, I guess not!
    Wol Euler: so, how are you? How's the practice going on?
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Wol Euler: I approve of subtlety.
    Strannik Zipper: I just had to turn around quickly - the cat was about to dump a glass of water in my lap!
    Wol Euler: O.O


    Calvino changes his tag to "very subtle", and shifts the conversation in a new direction. 

    Strannik Zipper: I'm feeling about as subtle as a sledgehammer at the moment
    Calvino Rabeni: I am all for sledghammers
    Calvino Rabeni: But curious, Stran
    Wol Euler: tell us more?
    Strannik Zipper: I suppose that I associate subtlety with sensitive awareness, subtle perception


    Wol Euler: and you are feeling unaware, unperceptive?
    Strannik Zipper: I would say more of a gross level - I am better in the morning - My brain has been spinning in orbit, my cat is poking me for attention, etc.
    Strannik Zipper: I was having thoughts that were charged with feelings etc.
    Strannik Zipper: Its a bit like tunnel vision compared to a more subtle panoramic awareness and quiet ;-)
    Strannik Zipper: Of course there is a level of awareness underneath that tells me how unaware I am
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: mind within minds
    Calvino Rabeni: It would be interesting to have a big wheel here, to spin it, and select what mode of attention to have - or which of those minds to use
    Wol Euler: :)
    Strannik Zipper: that is doable to a point
    Wol Euler: well, that is pretty close to what enlightened seeing does, isn't it?
    Strannik Zipper: I would say that enlightenment is the background of the wheel
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes my point , I think you got it, stran
    Wol Euler: or perhaps "enlightenment is knowing that there is a wheel", that the way we see is an optoin that we chose


    Archmage joins us.

    Wol Euler: hello arch
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello Wol, Cal, Srannik
    Strannik Zipper: Hi Arch
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello arch koya fred's
    Archmage Atlantis: Smile
    Calvino Rabeni: The tiger has some behaviors
    Calvino Rabeni: WHich I have not dared to explore
    Strannik Zipper: Hello Freddie and Fredrica
    Strannik Zipper: and Koya
    Archmage Atlantis: Well, he is script challenged, *grin*
    Wol Euler: :)
    Strannik Zipper: He's not house broken, but he is script broken
    Wol Euler laughs.
    Archmage Atlantis: When he came to me, I decided to accept who he/she is as a metaphor :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Defects and all
    Wol Euler nods. Just like people, actually.
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes.....to accept others as they are
    Strannik Zipper: yes, its best not to try to exchange or upgrade people either
    Wol Euler nods.
    Archmage Atlantis: Not so easy when the guy behind the car is blaring the horn, or my 16 yo RL cats misses his box *grin*
    Wol Euler: "All part of Being's rich tapestry" as the saying goes.
    Strannik Zipper: Those people are actually the most helpful in many ways


    Archmage Atlantis: Well, certainly they provide opportunities to practice short term medictation techniques
    Calvino Rabeni: I can see that, Strannik
    Strannik Zipper: was that meditation or medication?
    Wol Euler: I say "thank you for letting me practice Metta" to such people (but not out loud!)
    Archmage Atlantis: Funny slip, but I meant meditation......in the past mediction may have been more accurate :)


    Calvino introduces a new topic. 

    Calvino Rabeni: Care for a semi-serious topic?
    Wol Euler: sure
    Archmage Atlantis: yeppers
    Strannik Zipper: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, about spiritual ambition then
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
    Strannik Zipper: ooh...
    Wol Euler: I thought ambition was ego, and ego was to be quelled?
    Calvino Rabeni: People seem to want to go somewhere
    Calvino Rabeni: or be different
    Calvino Rabeni: or change
    Wol Euler: but is that not defined as being part ofhte problem? :)
    Archmage Atlantis: non sequitur
    Strannik Zipper: that is one half
    Wol Euler: desire -> unhappiness
    Calvino Rabeni: like, no more reincarnations please
    Calvino Rabeni: or , I wish I were not angry about person X
    Wol Euler: (as I understand it, perhaps I'm wrong)
    Calvino Rabeni: Or, I am too distracted
    Calvino Rabeni: Or, I want my mind clear, not the usual chaotic blather that is in there
    Calvino Rabeni: Or, Or, ...
    Archmage Atlantis: All the many desires, yes
    Strannik Zipper: Or I'm happy the way I am, I don't want to change or grow or do anything hard
    Calvino Rabeni: This prompted by the earlier, about people who are (annoying or whatever)
    Archmage Atlantis: Is there more to the thought Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: If I have a reaction, samskara or whatever you want to call it
    Calvino Rabeni: a friend days, "when I get that I let it go, I lay it at the feet of the guru"
    Calvino Rabeni: And he asked if I found it helpful (as a suggestion)
    Calvino Rabeni: My reaction was, I might do that if I wanted to not be annoyed
    Archmage Atlantis: A way of saying it, yes.....I would say I feel it, understand it as normal, and let it go.....somewhat the same
    Calvino Rabeni: but it doesn't seem to be interfering with anything
    Archmage Atlantis: It does not mean, to me, that I do not take action as I see appropriate
    Archmage Atlantis: I clean up after the cat for example
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm in no hurry to seek enlightenment, whatever that is
    Calvino Rabeni: Sure
    Wol Euler nods to calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: It is a choice
    Calvino Rabeni: And in a way feel no ambition at least if ambition is a desire
    Calvino Rabeni: On the other hand I feel energy of some kind
    Calvino Rabeni: And it moves me to change


    Complacency, confusion, laziness. 

    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe I do have a slight worry in there, about complacency
    Archmage Atlantis: That was always my problem with the concept of enlightenment....If i don't "care" about things, aren't I just being complacent
    Calvino Rabeni: But basically I'm pretty happy to hang out in the confused realms with everyone
    Archmage Atlantis: Now I see it differently
    Wol Euler raises her coffee cup to confusion.
    Strannik Zipper: I think I see ambition as a type of fixation, where as not working can also be a type of fixation
    Calvino Rabeni: Yeah


    Strannik Zipper: When I was younger, I was fixated on ambition, now I am more likely to be fixated on laziness of a type
    Archmage Atlantis: Ambition, as a word, does carry the implication of a desire....in this case a desired outcome
    Calvino Rabeni: I had a discussion earlier today about "laziness" with storm.
    Strannik Zipper: I think we can be motivated without it coming from ego and ambition
    Calvino Rabeni: Whatever it may be
    Archmage Atlantis: One acts with imperfect understanding and knowledge, and accept that the outcome is no one's to own
    Strannik Zipper: This is why there are many meditations on the preciousness and shortness of human life
    Strannik Zipper: motivations to compassion etc.
    Calvino Rabeni: good reminders
    Archmage Atlantis: Plus, laziness is, to me, a judgement......the body and mind are of the RL and need to pause and regroup at times
    Calvino Rabeni: I can see that one
    Archmage Atlantis: That looks like laziness to those who chose that judgement
    Calvino Rabeni: I've heard a number of ideas of it advanced lately
    Strannik Zipper: its like the fiddle string - too tight and it breaks, too loose, and it doesn't work
    Archmage Atlantis: Agree, Strannik
    Calvino Rabeni: And the in-between tension - you make choices
    Wol Euler thinks of all the different guitar and banjo tunings.
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Cal, that is how I see it
    Calvino Rabeni: life is choices, on one lavel
    Strannik Zipper: I like to think that life gives a pitch, and you try to tune accordingly
    Strannik Zipper: like the beginning of a symphony
    Calvino Rabeni: the string seems to imply a symphony
    Archmage Atlantis: Time for me to go, have a wonderful next time period Cal, Wol, Strannick...Bye now
    Strannik Zipper: Or you could be somebody using non-standard tunings
    Wol Euler: bye arch, sleep well
    Calvino Rabeni: bfn Arch!
    Strannik Zipper: cheers Arch
    Wol Euler: my dears, I must get to work. I've claimed the session, please carry on.
    Wol Euler: bye for now
    Strannik Zipper: Cheers Wol
    Calvino Rabeni: bye wol!


    Strannik and Calvino continued for quite a while, talking about poetry and places in all worlds.

    Calvino Rabeni: What is your SL island for, Stran?
    Strannik Zipper: Its a combination of things - my virtual offices, a library, bookstore, classroom and conference center, Cafe and place to dance
    Strannik Zipper: Many of my interests in virtual form
    Calvino Rabeni: a particular mission of some kind?
    Strannik Zipper: Including a poets gallery - I see that you are familiar with the blue angel!
    Calvino Rabeni: Or chareacter, I think I mean
    Calvino Rabeni: SOmewhat familare, I like to get the notices
    Calvino Rabeni: I like the open mic events


    Strannik Zipper: Well, its sort of a mediterranean Island theme
    Calvino Rabeni: Tell me about the poets gallery, if you like
    Strannik Zipper: not much there now, but it is a place for concrete poetry or poems turned into visual art or illuminated poems
    Calvino Rabeni: interesting
    Strannik Zipper: stop by an visit any time you like
    Calvino Rabeni: I will. Do you have a handy landmark?
    Strannik Zipper: I think that is current
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks.
    Calvino Rabeni: Is there such a thing as SL books (that are good), or does the bookstore have RL books ?
    Strannik Zipper: I have books in 3 types: Books that are links to an amazon store, books that are of the type that are actual virtual books (readable on virtual coffeetables or via hud) and books that are just objects containing notes
    Calvino Rabeni: I think there's a lot of potential for SL and arts, including word arts
    Strannik Zipper: I get so many notices, it seems like there is almost a writer's renaissance here of sorts (at leat in potential)
    Calvino Rabeni: I see. so you click the object and an SL notecard opens
    Strannik Zipper: well you take the object, and it contains several notes - e.g. one note per chapter
    Strannik Zipper: necessary due to the SL limit on note size
    Calvino Rabeni: How do you select between the chapters?
    Calvino Rabeni: I was shopping the other day, but didn't find anything cheap or that would fit the need
    Strannik Zipper: right click the object, and open, and then click on the note
    Strannik Zipper: or copy all of the notes to a folder
    Calvino Rabeni: OK, nothing special, just use the viewer folder interface
    Strannik Zipper: I also have one of the book presses for books that are more graphical - I have heard that there are better book presses, but I haven't investigated too much
    Calvino Rabeni: They seem to cost too much
    Strannik Zipper: yeah it is pricey - much cheaper than a real press of course
    Calvino Rabeni: A blank book you can write in and transfer but not copy should be very cheap
    Strannik Zipper: you are basically paying for all of the little script goodies included
    Calvino Rabeni: RIght,but it costs nothing to dup them.
    Strannik Zipper: page animations, a certain degree of automating the setup etc.
    Strannik Zipper: once you make a book, you can make infinite copies
    Calvino Rabeni: Surprised no one has made a free one and set it loose
    Strannik Zipper: its a bit of a vanity item - any serious documents and you can put a link to a pdf or ebook
    Strannik Zipper: someone has done a free one , but it wasn't as good
    Calvino Rabeni: What do you think of a writer's renaissance?


    Strannik Zipper: its nice when they happen, even if in a small way. when a group of people get together and inspire each other and create a certain amount of energy, perhaps creating a lot of good work in the process
    Strannik Zipper: I've gotten to be a part of such things a couple of times
    Calvino Rabeni: what country do you live in now, Stran?
    Strannik Zipper: California - USA
    Strannik Zipper: and you?
    Calvino Rabeni: Used to be Calif. Now Seattle
    Calvino Rabeni: OK, so you know the spotty history of poetry in the US
    Strannik Zipper: Did you ever go to poetry readings in San Francisco?
    Calvino Rabeni: and its fall from being a popular art
    Calvino Rabeni: Not really, although I do here.
    Strannik Zipper: poetry waxes and wanes
    Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps, but Longfellow used to be as popular as Steven King is now
    Calvino Rabeni: So it's mostly, waned
    Strannik Zipper: I was at Naropa when Ginsberg, Di Prima, Burroughs etc. were there
    Calvino Rabeni: I hope for a comeback
    Calvino Rabeni: Disembodied Poetics
    Strannik Zipper: yeah!
    Calvino Rabeni: Yeah, I lived in Boulder, maybe a bit after that time
    Strannik Zipper: cool
    Strannik Zipper: I used to know a guy who was a student at Naropa who opened a bookstore in Boulder - I'm trying to remember his name
    Calvino Rabeni: There were some good hangouts in boulder
    Calvino Rabeni: Bookends Cafe / bookstore on Pearl street
    Strannik Zipper: I loved it! I was only there for a week or so. One of the Naropa readings was in nice Coffeehouse
    Strannik Zipper: What I didn't know is, that some of these classes and readings were recorded, and are now freely downloadable from Internet Archive
    Calvino Rabeni: So what is in your area, of that ilk?
    Calvino Rabeni: I recall coming across that.
    Calvino Rabeni: Basically, I'm a populist
    Calvino Rabeni: I'd rather 10,000,000 mediocre poets than 1,000 good ones
    Strannik Zipper: There used to be some interesting readings in San Francisco that I used to frequent
    Calvino Rabeni: so I go to the neighborhood dives
    Calvino Rabeni: skip the concert hall
    Calvino Rabeni: power to the people
    Strannik Zipper: I tend to like a wide spectrum of stuff
    Strannik Zipper: I think that was what I liked about Naropa - it was very approachable - Ginsberg would teach poetics to anyone regardless of station in life, talent or whatever
    Calvino Rabeni: returning from crash I am
    Strannik Zipper: thought so
    Calvino Rabeni: Theres a subculture of poets that have no ambitions for fame


    Noob: hi
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi, Noob
    Strannik Zipper whispers hi
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi
    Noob: whats going on
    Calvino Rabeni: this is a place where we have a group that meets 4 times a day
    Strannik Zipper: This is normally a space where we investigate being in a playful way
    Calvino Rabeni: for talk and meditation
    Calvino Rabeni: right, playful is its mojo
    Strannik Zipper: yeah poetry is pure, there is no money and even its fame is obscure
    Calvino Rabeni: but it is a medium for all this other stuff
    Calvino Rabeni: for the messages and meanings people need to put out in the "we" spaces
    Calvino Rabeni: Like art, but much cheaper to produce
    Strannik Zipper: I like poetry because it is the ultimate form of hypertext - combining music, visual arts philosophy, experience all into one
    Calvino Rabeni: Especially, I like the pure vocal variety
    Calvino Rabeni: performance art
    Calvino Rabeni: it's primal, you have body but no page
    Strannik Zipper: yeah! I haven't seen so much of that lately
    Strannik Zipper: it was really hot in the 80s
    Calvino Rabeni: as in slam/jam?
    Strannik Zipper: I have a love/hate relationship with slam - it can be a big ego thing for some
    Strannik Zipper: but I do love some of the slam poets
    Strannik Zipper: Have you ever heard Beth Lisick?
    Calvino Rabeni: No, is on Youtube?
    Strannik Zipper: hmmmm....good question - I never thought of looking there
    Strannik Zipper: ooh! she is!
    Strannik Zipper: check out litquake
    Calvino Rabeni: http://video.google.com/videosearch?...d=0CCwQqwQwCA#
    Calvino Rabeni: One long URL
    Calvino Rabeni: http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...ry=beth+lisick
    Calvino Rabeni: better
    Calvino Rabeni: I have the love hate thing also
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't like the drive to professionalize
    Calvino Rabeni: since it continues the disempowerment of everyone else
    Calvino Rabeni: unless they have the competitive gener
    Calvino Rabeni: Gene, or urge
    Strannik Zipper: That is why poetry will always be better than TV, but never as popular
    Strannik Zipper: here is one of mine:
    Strannik Zipper: http://strannik.com/geekpilgrim/node/29


    Calvino Rabeni: very cool, I read it during the pause
    Calvino Rabeni: did you ride?
    Strannik Zipper: I forget how much good stuff there is on Youtube
    Calvino Rabeni: I liked the bebop / railroad juxtaposition
    Strannik Zipper: Did I ride - the rails?
    Calvino Rabeni: I wasn't aware of a Beat / Track link
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Strannik Zipper: I used to train between SF and San Jose every day
    Strannik Zipper: Kerouac worked for the Southern Pacific about the same time as my Grandfather and uncles
    Calvino Rabeni: I think, ironically, my first encounter with any kind of non-traditional lifestyle was Kerouac's The Dharma Bums
    Strannik Zipper: One of my favorite Kerouac Poems is "song of the railroad earth"
    Calvino Rabeni: It actually prompted me to hit the rails and really get a feel for it
    Calvino Rabeni: Possibly my first "zen" experiences
    Strannik Zipper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLj1GwMvh8Y
    Calvino Rabeni: very fun


    Strannik Zipper: I love trains
    Calvino Rabeni: I always liked that riff on Charlie Parker that Kerouac wrote into The Subterraneans
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I have iron in my blood
    Calvino Rabeni: ... evn though it was later roundly criticized on political grounds
    Strannik Zipper: Kerouac had amazing talent - he could just verbally riff like any jazz artist
    Calvino Rabeni: but as word art it worked, in a romantic way
    Calvino Rabeni: right
    Calvino Rabeni: trains have such power and momentum
    Calvino Rabeni: and sense of history
    Calvino Rabeni: a certain language you can learn from them
    Strannik Zipper: I really love old neglected railyards - which unfortunately are rapidly disappearing
    Calvino Rabeni: True and unfortunate
    Calvino Rabeni: Hope they haven't cleaned up Barstow
    Strannik Zipper: Hmmmm....last time I was there was in 2000 - I couldn't have told you
    Strannik Zipper: it did seem like Flagstaff got mall-i-fied between 1985 and 2000
    Strannik Zipper: I was trying to connect with what was left of route 66 at the time
    Calvino Rabeni: Yeah. It's been awhile.
    Calvino Rabeni: Have you seen this train video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSqNx7vJLDE
    Strannik Zipper: hahaha - wow!
    Calvino Rabeni: lots of versions on youtube, some showing the part where the market vanishes also
    Calvino Rabeni: it s a different take on trains
    Calvino Rabeni: The ones in the West have sagebrush reaching off to the horizon
    Strannik Zipper: I've heard that the new light rail bisects Bangkok neighborhoods everywhere
    Calvino Rabeni: This one is like an Escher drawing
    Calvino Rabeni: at street level?
    Calvino Rabeni: The elevated train is pretty nice
    Strannik Zipper: no, I think its raised
    Calvino Rabeni: It is astoundingly COLD in that train
    Calvino Rabeni: Not sure exactly why
    Strannik Zipper: recently in this area, they have been putting up mor fences around the trains because people keep throwing themselves in front of them


    Calvino Rabeni: suicide, or careless?
    Strannik Zipper: suicide, unfortunately
    Calvino Rabeni: Are you in the bay area still?
    Strannik Zipper: yup
    Calvino Rabeni: Do you know Doug Sosa in RL?
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm still learning who's where of the PAB crew
    Strannik Zipper: I don't think so
    Calvino Rabeni: Palo Alto
    Strannik Zipper: I'm closer to San Jose - I've been away from PAB for a while, so there are a lot of folks I don't know
    Calvino Rabeni: Ah. And I'm new-ish
    Calvino Rabeni: I partly grew up in that area
    Strannik Zipper: I do know Pema - I met him years ago at a retreat
    Calvino Rabeni: Thre may be a PAB retreat in that area soon
    Strannik Zipper: There was one near here last August, but I was completely jammed up in the middle of big projects
    Calvino Rabeni: what is your area of work, If I may ask?
    Strannik Zipper: Writing things less stimulating than poetry, but which pays
    Strannik Zipper: business writing, websites etc.
    Strannik Zipper: are you a coder?
    Calvino Rabeni: software design, includes coding, analysis, etc.
    Strannik Zipper: for Bill?
    Calvino Rabeni: :) gates you mean?
    Strannik Zipper: yeah
    Calvino Rabeni: never
    Strannik Zipper: hahaha - good for you - but Seattle is close to the dark side HQ ;-)
    Calvino Rabeni: SOme of my friends retired with $$$$, but I have my clean conscience which is priceless :)
    Strannik Zipper: not to mention a cleaner disk drive


    Strannik Zipper: Well I am up WAY too late, but it was nice chatting with you
    Calvino Rabeni: Good to meet you too, Strannik. Same timezone here :)
    Calvino Rabeni: See you another time .
    Strannik Zipper: yup - see you here or at the Blue Angel
    Strannik Zipper: have a good one
    Calvino Rabeni: OK, I'll check your SL digs
    Calvino Rabeni: U2
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