2009.12.28 07:00 - Only time of death is uncertain

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eden Haiku. The comments are by Eden Haiku.

    Talking over the fence

    Eden Haiku: Hello Yakuzza!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eden, good morning
    Eden Haiku: How are you?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well, thx i hope the same for you, i have vacation between the days
    Eden Haiku: Wonderful! Are you doing more 9 secs practices? ;-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no, i am not i am actually experimenting with different things and tryting to get into some ridiculous stuff :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol, i even played guitar hero for the first time :D
    Eden Haiku: I took a day off from celebrations yesterday, spent a lot of time in PaB and SL. Ridiculous stuff Yakuzza?
    Eden Haiku: Oh guitar playing! Sounds fun!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol, it's more kind of a rhythm trainer, it's fun even when it's already kinda old for other ppl but it's new for me :)
    Eden Haiku: I never played a musical instrument except the flute when I was a teenager. My cat hated it!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol
    Yakuzza Lethecus: me neither by the way, even when i always wanted
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it's not a musical instrument, i owe an acustic guitar and a keyboard but i never really practiced
    Yakuzza Lethecus: guitar hero is a game and it's also more fun than actually playing an instrument
    Yakuzza Lethecus: as i said that's more kind of a rythm trainer
    Eden Haiku: I miss going outdoors. The weather has been so bad lately: heavy rain, icy sidewalks, I did not go for my usual walks by the river. Oh, a game, sorry I misunderstood.
    Eden Haiku: So you are a game boy hey hey?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol, yes i think i started again :)
    Eden Haiku: Good for you to become one again during the holidays.
    Eden Haiku: Is your work very stressful?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: a friend of mine just told me about it and i tried a game called frets on fire in which you are playing kind of guitar hero an a pc
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no it isn't
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it's just unsecure because of the poor economy
    Eden Haiku: But still having stretches of free time feels good enough for you to explore video games. It is a video game is it?
    Eden Haiku: I have tried Assassin's Creed on my iPod Touch but the 'avatar" has been killed so many times, I'm so awkward...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i never played real games on my ipod touch
    Yakuzza Lethecus: maybe the labyrinth when it first came out
    Eden Haiku: I find SL the most interesting game!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i like my ipotsch but somehow i never got into playing with it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: because i don't define SL as a game
    Eden Haiku: I watched a movie on it once, from Quebec City to Montreal in a bus. That was cool.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, kanada got great nature
    Eden Haiku: But i was looking on the little screen :-)…
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, yes when it was new i also converted a lot for my ipod
    Eden Haiku: You do not see SL as a game then?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: after a while i just went back for watching weather reports, maps and music/lectures
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no, certainly not, SL is somehow truely about live in general
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it's about communication with little opportunity cost
    Eden Haiku: Well, maybe I see life in general as game too :-)
    Eden Haiku: What do you mean by little opportunity cost Yakuzza?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so we don't have to be in canada to talk to each other while we are even bound together by kind of the same interests and the differences in the interests make the communication more interesting
    Eden Haiku: I'm not familiar with the expression.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: opportunity cost is that you don't have to pay a lot of time/money to get into a new idea
    Eden Haiku: Oh, yes, that is so true about Second Life!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so i never cared about buddism and i would have never elaborated on it real life
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but second life you bumb in into someone with an interest and you elaborate on ideas from time to time without intentionally doing it
    Eden Haiku: Oh, and now you walk in zen robes...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: is there is some implicit uptake and i don't think the ones with the zen robes were the ones i heard the most about buddism around here so far
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sadly pema and gen aren't talking that much anymore around here
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lately there are fewer interesting discussions and the ppl i liked to listen to seem to stay away
    Eden Haiku: :-) So funny also we are talking 'over' German and French, like over the fence, like neighbours. English would be the fence on which we lean...

    Missing Pema and Genesis, we go from video games to Twitter and other profound subjects

    Zen Arado: Hi Eden, Yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey zen
    Eden Haiku: Pema is in Japan still, he attends later sessions (7 PM SLT). For you that is very late...HI Zen, nice to see you!
    Eden Haiku: As for Genesis, I do not see her often, she must be busy. She will be at the party! On the 30th between 2 and 6. Do you two plan to attend?
    Zen Arado: 7pm is impossible for me
    Zen Arado: like 3am
    Eden Haiku: Yes, very late...in North Ireland..and in Germany as well.
    Zen Arado: 4am?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: am would be fine while pm is the pure horror :)
    Zen Arado: was reading guardians log
    Zen Arado: about using Twitter
    Eden Haiku: Yes Zen?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: am only on weekends :)
    Zen Arado: interesting
    Zen Arado: though if you made lots of pab postings might not be so interesting to others !
    Zen Arado: I was invited on to Twitter but don't use it much
    Eden Haiku: I first thought that it was already used for connecting us as we do the 9 secs. But, reading the log, I realized it is a project for the future.
    Zen Arado: I keep getting women I never heard of who want to follow me :)
    Eden Haiku: I did not have an account, I created one for PaB, so if this project materializes I will be ready!
    Zen Arado: when you check their profiles they have been banned
    Zen Arado: I found Storm and am following him
    Eden Haiku: That is one of the benefits of Twitter isn'it Zen? Having this large following of female fans? :-)
    Zen Arado: I think they only want men to watch webcams
    Eden Haiku: Oh, they have been banned? Spammers?
    Zen Arado: they give a website address
    Eden Haiku: Oh oh, I see what you mean ... :-) They would get bored by PaB postings I guess :-)
    Eden Haiku: I spent 4 or 5 days on Facebook before I deleted the account. But Twitter I think I like better.
    Zen Arado: I use Facebook
    Eden Haiku: But I should use some multiplying mantra to multiply time :-)
    Zen Arado: has it's good points and bad
    Eden Haiku: Are you into these social networks Yakuzza?
    Zen Arado: I get a lot of interesting stuff posted to me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no, not really i have an facebook account yes but i haven't logged in in a while

    The wind shifts and we turn towards a serious topic

    Eden Haiku: I enjoy so much these 'Near death experience' videos you posted Zen.
    Zen Arado: yes I got that link from an artist friend who lives in Venice
    Eden Haiku: There is a bell coming up. Should we focus on a specific topic?
    Zen Arado: if you have lots of friends with the same interests you can share stuff
    Zen Arado: death meditation?
    Zen Arado: death is certain
    Eden Haiku: Yes. Beautiful. 
    Zen Arado: only the time of death is uncertain
    Zen Arado: so what should we do?
    Eden Haiku: Yes, let us do that death meditation. Are you willing to do it Yakuzza?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i haven't watched the other parts
    Eden Haiku: Silly me, I thought the bell was at 10h40....
    Yakuzza Lethecus: only the first one so i don't know about the 'death meditation'
    Eden Haiku: So we have time to discuss how we can do that death meditation…
    Zen Arado: you don't need to watch video
    Zen Arado: just concentrate on those three questions
    Eden Haiku: You mean we just reflect about the reality of death. Our own. The people we love dying.
    Zen Arado: it helps make us realize impermanence
    Eden Haiku: Yes?
    Zen Arado: and to appreciate our lives
    Zen Arado: if you do that now and then I think death won't be so hard to take when it finally does come
    Zen Arado: rather than push the idea away
    Zen Arado: as most do
    Zen Arado: or quickly change subject
    Yakuzza Lethecus: maybe it's wrong to think that it's hard when it comes ?
    Eden Haiku: What would be the 3 questions Zen?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sure when i was smaller i had problems thinking about death, right now my grandma is 84 and i visited her just 2 hrs ago
    Zen Arado: sorry only one question :)
    Zen Arado: death is certain - only time of death is uncertain - so what should we do ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: just nothing, it's fine when it comes
    Yakuzza Lethecus: isn't it irrational to think it's hard ?
    Zen Arado: yes Yaku
    Zen Arado: but that is easy to say
    Zen Arado: few want to visualis the reality
    Zen Arado: and I think it is easier for some than others
    Eden Haiku: Do you visualize it Zen, your own death?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the problem is more of 'what are we'
    Zen Arado: not very often I admit
    Yakuzza Lethecus: my problems are metaphysically is there 'nothing'
    Zen Arado: but seems a good idea to do it
    Zen Arado: I think the more 'enlightened' you are the less of a problem it is
    Eden Haiku: During the pause, I remembered how afraid I was when I got into SL that my avatar would "die'. I felt so vulnerable in this unknown world...
    Zen Arado: yes..I read something about how to get away if attacked....
    Zen Arado: using a flight feather
    Eden Haiku: Yes, I'm very learned on these subjects... In RL I used to do karate. In SL, I learnt too...
    Zen Arado: don't think anyone can really do much harm to you
    Eden Haiku: But back to death of these RL avatars of ours.
    Zen Arado: you can always log out
    Eden Haiku:  In SL the key is to remain seated…:-)
    Eden Haiku: Or log out yes..
    Zen Arado: you can only be hurt with words ...
    Zen Arado: in SL
    Eden Haiku: Talking about SL death might be a way of avoiding talking about RL death...
    Zen Arado: and that can be painful :)
    Eden Haiku: Yes, words can hurt.
    Zen Arado: yes...we automatically change subject
    Eden Haiku: I see that...
    Zen Arado: too morbid..

    We end up joking about death

    Zen Arado: funny how often subject comes up in RL meditation group I attend
    Zen Arado: we were talking about how ppl want cell phones in their coffin when they get buried
    Eden Haiku: I once I had a dream in which I was about 88 years old, and I looked like my grandma, with her elegant white hair in a bun. I was teaching pali in the Himalayas. A silly dream, but very reassuring in a dark period of my life. Should start learning pali by the way...
    Zen Arado: just in case :)
    Eden Haiku: cell phone in one's grave, that is a good one!
    Zen Arado: wonder how you knew you were that age?
    Zen Arado: we had a lot of fun imagining what you would say if you had to use it :)
    Eden Haiku: It was in the dream somehow. My grandma died when she was 84, maybe I looked a bit older :-)?
    Eden Haiku: Did one of you saw this terrifying movie from the Netherlands: 'The Man Who Wanted to Know'?
    Zen Arado: no sorry
    Eden Haiku: Someone is buried alive.
    Zen Arado: horrors
    Eden Haiku: With a cell phone, the guy could have called the police...Maybe I will put that on my will. I want my cell phone! Just in case...
    Zen Arado: what would you say?
    Eden Haiku: We are joking because it is not that funny. I have a friend who is sick with breast cancer. And she is only in her forties. For her, death is a closer possiblity.
    Eden Haiku: What would I say... hum...
    Eden Haiku: Welcome Zon! I hope you will enjoy our topic this morning...
    Zen Arado: maybe that is why we joke about it - to take away the sting of it
    Zon Quar: heya
    Zen Arado: Hi Zon :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: most ppl i met want more kind of 'normality' the topic itself isn't something post ppl i met wanted to talk about
    Eden Haiku: Zen just asked me what I would say on my cell phone if I get a chance to use it in my coffin...
    Zen Arado: Hello - would you have a spade handy ? :)
    Zon Quar: id say..don't worry..it goes on
    Yakuzza Lethecus: even when her stomach made interesting noises the wife of my neighbour kept making jokes about the sound but sadly she died a few month later
    Eden Haiku: :-(
    Yakuzza Lethecus: she had stomach cancer and already a few operations before
    Eden Haiku: Still looking for the right words but I will run out of oxygene soon. Who should I call? Why didn't I add more people on speed dial, nobody is home!
    Zen Arado: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and consider the issue that you have to check the cementary first if you have still a connection 2m deep under the earth :P

    So as 2009 is slowly dying, we are contemplating death.

    Eden Haiku: Yes, some people are gracious even in the way they leave this world. My Mom was.
    Zen Arado: probably not
    Zen Arado: mine too
    Zen Arado: surprisingly so
    Zen Arado: she had pancreatic cancer too
    Eden Haiku: Tech problems in the grave now! I hope my few Twitter friends will keep following me...
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: don't think so
    Zen Arado: corpses are pretty boring
    Zen Arado: unfaithful lot we are
    Zen Arado: but we don't know what will happen to us
    Zen Arado: wait and see
    Eden Haiku: Mom passed away because he heart was failing. She was feeble and yet loving till the end. Thanking the nurses, saying she loved us. At one point, she had a wonderful smile like she was seeing another world.
    Zon Quar: we r not taugth how to relate to death properly in our western culture
    Zen Arado: mine totally accepted it
    Zen Arado: was so peaceful at the end
    Zen Arado: no we aren't Zon
    Eden Haiku: That is a great teaching .
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think it's only terrible for children, you might haven't seen ppl passing away before
    Zon Quar: either there is heaven or total nothing...so black and white
    Yakuzza Lethecus: if an accident happens to the parents of a small child that's terrible
    Zen Arado: we push death out of sight
    Zon Quar: yes
    Zen Arado: that is the worst Yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think as we get mature we are confrontated with death, one grandpa took his own life
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i fortunatly still have my parents
    Yakuzza Lethecus: only one grandma but she degenerates rapidly right now :(
    Zon Quar: i think worst is if ur own child dies
    Yakuzza Lethecus: right
    Zen Arado: but I have seen ppl in their 70's suddenly realise the reality of it - only then
    Eden Haiku: Yesterday, at a poetry reading, a young woman read a beautiful poem about loosing a little neighbour who was 8 when she was herself a child. The theme of the evening was mourning because one of the regular poets there had died.
    Eden Haiku: So as 2009 is slowly dying, we are contemplating death.
    Zen Arado: and wonder how many years we have left
    Zon Quar: death is the other side..the other side is new beginning
    Zen Arado: I am getting old.....
    Zon Quar: nothing ends
    Zon Quar: just changes
    Zen Arado: I grow old, I grow old, I shall wear my trousers roled...
    Zon Quar: lol
    Zen Arado: know it Eden?
    Zon Quar: no self pity allowed
    Zon Quar: lol
    Eden Haiku: No? My trousers rolled?
    Eden Haiku: A nursery ryme?
    Zen Arado: form TS Eliot
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
    Eden Haiku: Bye yakuzza. have a nice day!
    Zon Quar: we should never grow old..but only grow up..lol
    Zen Arado: the love song of J Alfred Prufrock
    Eden Haiku: I walked to the window during the pause; it is snowing lightly, perfect weather for a walk!
    Zen Arado: yes...I am growing down
    Zen Arado: better go
    Eden Haiku: I will have to leave now. Have a nice day!
    Zen Arado: you too
    Zon Quar: btoh u 2
    Zon Quar: c u later
    Zen Arado: bye Zon, Eden
    Eden Haiku: Bye Zen, bye Zonm! Zon Zen, Zon Zen... nice mantra…:-)
    Zon Quar: heeheh
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