2010.01.01 07:00 - Enter Zen From Here

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal who was joined this New Years Day by Yakuzza, Arch, Bertram, and Zen. The engines took a while to warm, but eventually we were on our way...

    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yakuzza! :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eliza
    Yakuzza Lethecus: happy new year
    Eliza Madrigal: Happy New Year!
    Eliza Madrigal: It is going to be an interesting year I think... can feel it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, everything can be interesting i guess, it depends what we make of it :P
    Eliza Madrigal: YES
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol, i believe that´s what´s this place about but i don´t want even want to become kind of a guru :D
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Eliza Madrigal: Why not, your avatar style seems quite guru-ish :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey arch
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Arch, Happy New Year to you and friends :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Hiya Yaki, Liza . A wonderful and prosperous New Year to you both
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank You!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: can those animals run around you arch ? for example tarmal´s dragon is were flying around her all the time
    Yakuzza Lethecus: happy new year arch :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, the can, but they can't rez here to do that
    Archmage Atlantis: Which is just as well
    Eliza Madrigal: This morning I woke with an interesting line of thinking about the 9 second practice. May I share ?
    Archmage Atlantis: Not very conducive to meditation
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sure eliza
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, please do share
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay, well perhaps because I went to see the film Avatar yesterday, and there is a similar string....
    Archmage Atlantis: :)

    Eliza Madrigal: I woke thinking about the 9 seconds as a kind of needle's eye
    Eliza Madrigal: and the line "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to get into heaven" etc
    Eliza Madrigal: The point of the story is about dropping :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Dropping what you have to see what you are
    Eliza Madrigal: It isn't about literally not having anything, as much as it is about nothing having you
    Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, that's about it :) Thoughts?

    A very long silence...


    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :) I was just sharing something about the 9 seconds. It seems so profound as to have stupified Ya and Arch. haha
    Zen Arado: Hi all :)
    Archmage Atlantis: My initial thought, other than to ask about the movie, the special glasses, and whay you thought of the fim itself, is that I agree in great part with that thinking....the 9 is a form of high speed meditation, meditation is about standing mentally/internally apart from the events around you, tho, perhaps, being aware of them
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey, zen happy new year
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Thanks, Arch...
    Zen Arado: thanks Yaku
    Eliza Madrigal: I like the way you phrase that
    Eliza Madrigal: High speed meditation
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, greatings Zen
    Zen Arado: happy new year to you too and Arch and Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Happy New Year :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you

    Here I shared with Zen the needle's eye thought I'd started with, but ...

    Zen Arado: brb

    !! :)

    Eliza Madrigal: And I enjoyed the film, Arch
    Archmage Atlantis: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Very Much
    Eliza Madrigal: Have you seen it?
    Archmage Atlantis: No, I probably won't be able to do so, though I would very much like too see it in a good theater
    Archmage Atlantis: And I don't see the DVD as being the same experience
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd like to see it again in IMAX
    Archmage Atlantis: That would be way cool, Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: I was able to see it digital 3d
    Archmage Atlantis: I have been plowing through the Dr. Who BBC series on disk, good stuff
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I've thought about doing that
    Archmage Atlantis: Be sure and get the currrent version......Netflix streams it to my player, so it's great for someone like me who is homebound
    Eliza Madrigal: yes netflix is great

    Arch shares a quote...

    Archmage Atlantis: But actually, I'd like to toss out a quote to include in today's discussion
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure!
    Archmage Atlantis: I have been attending several groups here on SL discussing the direction of the future, and this quote popped up on my daily quote service
    Archmage Atlantis: Nature is trying very hard to make us succeed, but nature does not depend on us. We are not the only experiment. - R. Buckminster Fuller (1895 - 1983)
    Eliza Madrigal: What does that quote say to you, Arch?


    A dip into practice...

    Eliza Madrigal: A pause is approaching. Shall we practice a bit this morning? Frame the micro-meditation with a question?
    Archmage Atlantis: That humanity, or even the earth itself are not guaranteed, to focus on things and circumstances is only part of the larger picture of who we are and our place in creation, however one chooses that creation came to be
    Archmage Atlantis: Sure
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, focusing on the larger picture, yes indeed...
    Eliza Madrigal: So what about, for simplicity's sake, considering if there are things or ideas that have held us back from seeing that larger picture....
    Eliza Madrigal: and if we might let them go :)

    Eliza Madrigal: something to share?
    Eliza Madrigal: For me, shedding unessentials has to do with better time management
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bertram, Happy New Year!
    Eliza Madrigal: This seems an unusual time for you
    Bertram Jacobus: hi every body ;-) - and ty ! same same : happy new year to you all (yakuza : again) ;-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi bert :)
    Bertram Jacobus: huhu ! :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: huhu?
    Bertram Jacobus: that means hi - in a quite unformal manner :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, cute
    Bertram Jacobus: :-))
    Archmage Atlantis: door
    Eliza Madrigal: Does anyone have a topic they'd like to discuss? So quiet today...
    Bertram Jacobus: door ?
    Bertram Jacobus: and - i like somtimes a bit quietness ...
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, someone is at the door I think, Bert
    Bertram Jacobus: okay :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Sure
    Bertram Jacobus: but i fear, i´m also one of those quite talkative persons ... ;-)
    Zen Arado: sorry had phone call Hi Bert
    Bertram Jacobus: hey zen ! :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm talkative here... not so much in RL
    Bertram Jacobus: and actually, my outfit seems to be ... a bit too less witer orientated for here (?) ... ;-)
    Zen Arado: good article on 'Letting Go' - http://www.beyond-karma.com/how-to/h...tions-release/
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, thank you :)
    Zen Arado: was ust reading myself
    Zen Arado: drat this 'j' key of mine !
    Eliza Madrigal: hah
    Zen Arado: people always tell me to let go but never tell me how
    Eliza Madrigal: or to where? :)
    Zen Arado: hope this helps
    Zen Arado: yes it is a bit vague isn't it?
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, it is and isn't...
    Eliza Madrigal: changes every time
    Bertram Jacobus: i took the site to the favourites - looks nice (!) - read it later more focussed ... (ty)
    Zen Arado: yes sure
    Eliza Madrigal: So "let go like this" may be helpful as a guide... but seems one drops by... dropping :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hearing what works for others can be very inspiring though, agree
    Zen Arado: and not clinging?
    Zen Arado: wanting things to go 'my way'
    Zen Arado: hate that song !
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, if we are attentive to not clinging in the first place, then clingy things might begin to feel irritating :)
    Bertram Jacobus: lol :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: haha.... not a terrible song but I don't agree with it
    Eliza Madrigal thinks of the sid vicious version
    Zen Arado: he even gives a technique for getting rid of irritating tunes in your head
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh?
    Eliza Madrigal: I pictured an image of a still lake for a while, to do that
    Eliza Madrigal: now seems less necessary

    Here there was a typo I uncharacteristically left out of the log. :) I allow myself 3 a year...

    Zen Arado: ah maybe in this link http://www.beyond-karma.com/how-to/h...in-four-steps/
    Zen Arado: spoiled that technique Eliza
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
    Eliza Madrigal shouldn't have had the second glass of bubbly last night :)
    Zen Arado: I had a glass of Irish whiskey
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: Black Bush
    Zen Arado: never drink whiskey but got bottle for Christmas
    Eliza Madrigal: that's always seemed a strange gift to me
    Zen Arado: thought it might be good for colds
    Zen Arado: good excuse ?

    OKAY THEN! ...

    Eliza Madrigal: How is your reading of "On Having No Head" going? I went to the site and did some of the exercizes.. was fun :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure
    Eliza Madrigal: hah
    Zen Arado: I read book a few years ago
    Zen Arado: and thought ia bit strange
    Zen Arado: but it is another way of seeing through our fixed concepts of reality
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I thought it was a similar notion to what we do here
    Zen Arado: actually Pema mentions it at the end of one of his papers
    Eliza Madrigal: "You can't be taught to see"
    Zen Arado: o phenomenology
    Eliza Madrigal: I can see why... the experimental aspect is quite potent
    Eliza Madrigal: experiential I should say
    Zen Arado: yes it is realizing what we actually perceive from our head instead of what we 'know' is there
    Zen Arado: a child pre 18 months just sees
    Zen Arado: after that they start to identify with what they see in a mirror
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed it is something one can describe all day but actually doing practices seems necessary to poke through our conditioning
    Zen Arado: yes Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: One of the first things a child learns, is to poing
    Eliza Madrigal: Point!
    Zen Arado: at it again :)
    Eliza Madrigal has funny fingers today
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)

    Zen Arado: you seem to be the only one in that group who got anything from that Eliza
    Zen Arado: rest think I am mad !
    Eliza Madrigal: from the headless discussion? haha
    Eliza Madrigal: yes well it was fun
    Zen Arado: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: and I'm sure Ara was attentive too... she enjoys phenom.
    Zen Arado: didn't get it myself first time
    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes it is difficult to have that kind of discussion in a large group
    Zen Arado: not sure if I got it now
    Eliza Madrigal: I think the point is we're always getting it and not getting it
    Eliza Madrigal: Just play? :))
    Zen Arado: but it is supposed to be an all or nothing experience
    Zen Arado: yes sure :)
    Zen Arado: am too serious
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Zen Arado: too goal oriented
    Eliza Madrigal: perhaps that is what you might drop this year...
    Eliza Madrigal: or some part of the goaling within the goals :)
    Bertram Jacobus: your clothing is very serious too zen ! why is that ? ;-)
    Zen Arado: that is mu goal this year :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow -
    Zen Arado: ha Zennies wear black Bert
    Eliza Madrigal: the thing is, especially with contemplative things, seems silly to try to get things "right"
    Zen Arado: grey is flamboyant :)
    Bertram Jacobus: some wear grey
    Zen Arado: cute rabbit BTW
    Zen Arado: I got a cat last week
    Bertram Jacobus: ty. i love it. was / is a gift (!) :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, everyone seems to cover themselves in snuggly creatures lately
    Zen Arado: mine is at home
    Zen Arado: guard cat
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    Bertram Jacobus: hehe. nice
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i got to run away, bye for now
    Bertram Jacobus: bye yaku ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Ya :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Don't run too far
    Zen Arado: bye Yaku
    Bertram Jacobus: "ha!" :o)
    Bertram Jacobus: i saw him writing and was fast enough to respond in time :o)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) quick guns
    Zen Arado: fast exit!
    Bertram Jacobus: as mostly
    Eliza Madrigal: "flash" ahha
    Bertram Jacobus: aha aha aha ? ... ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bert, any Resolutions?
    Bertram Jacobus: sry - to foolish ?


    Zen Arado: foolish is good :)
    Eliza Madrigal agrees with that often
    Bertram Jacobus: resolution ? related to what please ?
    Zen Arado: like Nasruddin
    Eliza Madrigal: The New Year, practice perhaps
    Zen Arado: crazy wisdom
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes Zen... wonderful examples of the universe conspiring with fools
    Eliza Madrigal: :) I like that phrase
    Zen Arado: you know the story of the peppers?
    Eliza Madrigal: No, tell me!
    Zen Arado: just a sec
    Bertram Jacobus: no. me not either
    Zen Arado: One of my favorite stories comes from the Sufi tradition of mystical Islam. It is a tale that tells us exactly what we will have to face if we endeavor to walk the path of desire.

    A man sits in the center of a Middle Eastern marketplace crying his eyes out, a platter of peppers spilled out on the ground before him. Steadily and methodically, he reaches for pepper after pepper, popping them into his mouth and chewing deliberately, at the same time wailing uncontrollably. "What's wrong, Nasruddin?" his friends wonder, gathering around the extraordinary sight. "What's the matter with you?" Tears stream down Nasruddin's face as he sputters an answer. "I'm looking for a sweet one," he gasps.


    Zen Arado: the story of my life !
    Eliza Madrigal giggles wildly
    Eliza Madrigal: What a terrific tale
    Bertram Jacobus: :-))
    Zen Arado: yet that is what we do
    Bertram Jacobus: what i know from nasrudin - very nice ... agree ... :-)
    Eliza Madrigal wonders if he developed a taste for the strong peppers
    Eliza Madrigal: and the tears
    Zen Arado: he seems to have been unselective
    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes life brings you peppers
    Zen Arado: yes you can draw a lot from the tale
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Zen Arado: thinks it always brings peppers :)
    Zen Arado: but teaches us things too
    Eliza Madrigal: How do you relate it to crazy wisdom, Zen?
    Zen Arado: don't know
    Zen Arado: just come across it in books
    Bertram Jacobus: ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah

    Bertram Jacobus: on the surface it seems to be crazy - deeply it´s wise (!)

    Zen Arado: Nasrudin crops up a lot even in Zen books
    Zen Arado: yes Bert
    Eliza Madrigal: Eckhart Tolle talks about the figure of the fool a bit... characters like the Hobbit
    Zen Arado: a wise fool!
    Eliza Madrigal: and how the universe could use him because he was sooo simple
    Zen Arado: we have to learn how to 'not know'
    Bertram Jacobus: simplicity ... middle path ...
    Eliza Madrigal: how to have no head
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: I like Eckhart
    Bertram Jacobus: i have a thought - or three : in the beginning : head . then : no more head . then head again ... (but free)
    Zen Arado: downloaded power of now to my Kindle last week
    Zen Arado: like mountains and rivers koan
    Bertram Jacobus: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: An important book. You know, very mainstream friends who always pat my head about my interest in 'spiritual things', started talking more openly with me because of that book
    Bertram Jacobus: can you quote it zen ?
    Zen Arado: yes you can look out and in
    Zen Arado: not sure
    Zen Arado: something like


    Zen Arado: first there are mountains and rivers - then there are no mountains and rivers - then there are mountains and rivers again
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes :)
    Zen Arado: like becoming enlightened then putting it into practice in the world
    Eliza Madrigal: yes "just see, just know"
    Zen Arado: you can't stay on the mountain peaks divorced from the world
    Zen Arado: but you see the world in a different way
    Zen Arado: my interpretation anyway
    Bertram Jacobus: i found it now too - was a nice excurse :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: well good to be on the mountain peak in the middle of traffic
    Zen Arado: I try to study a koan a litle every day
    Bertram Jacobus: nice net sites about these sentences ! :-)
    Zen Arado: yes I am sure
    Zen Arado: I have a book called 'The Book of Equanimity' collection of koans
    Eliza Madrigal: the 'enter zen from there" story is one of my favorite koans
    Zen Arado: try to work with one per week
    Zen Arado: don't know that one Eliza
    Zen Arado: I need a commentary though
    Eliza Madrigal: I'll give a note of the story, then paste it at the end of the log
    Eliza Madrigal: you'll like it and I'm sure you've heard it...
    Zen Arado: ok sure
    Zen Arado: ty Eliza

    Don't see why not...

    Zen Arado: would be nice to study a koan from time to time here - though many wouldn't like that I guess
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure they would, if it could be framed in an open way I think
    Eliza Madrigal: I've not studied koans as a practice, but they come up from time to time...
    Bertram Jacobus: nice story eliza :-9
    Eliza Madrigal: without my intending :)
    Zen Arado: yes think I have read it before
    Zen Arado: very simple but very profound
    Eliza Madrigal: Its a wonderful story... often told I think... with a gentle stream manner
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
    Eliza Madrigal: it willl just travel with you as you walk, quietly nurturing :)
    Zen Arado: nice image
    Zen Arado: they do 'penetrate' after a while
    Bertram Jacobus: another nice story is about a new search engine which saves 2 square meters with every search - for free - i hope , you don´t mind this short link
    Eliza Madrigal: yes!
    Zen Arado: sure Bert
    Eliza Madrigal: its funny... one can have a million dramatic experiences, and yet be more changed by the subtlest whispers
    Bertram Jacobus: ups - where is it ? ... ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, sure Bert. Nice to have tips
    Eliza Madrigal: then I'll have to get going, but thanks for the lovely talk
    Zen Arado: experiences pile up and then get a trigger
    Zen Arado: yes me too
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, seeds! :)
    Eliza Madrigal: they lay dormant, waiting
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now Zen :)
    Zen Arado: enjoyed discussion
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, me too
    Zen Arado: bye Eliza, Bert
    Eliza Madrigal: Bert, find the link?
    Eliza Madrigal: Maybe you can pass it along later... really have to run
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now and again, Happy New Year :)

    The Story...

    A Zen Master was walking in silence with one of his disciples along a mountain trail. The disciple, a young monk, had been thinking a lot about the state of Zen, and wondering just how to achieve this state of being. After hiking through the mountains for some time, the two stopped for a break and rested in silence along side a large boulder. The disciple broke the silence and asked, ”Master, how do I enter Zen?”  The Master remained silent.  After several minutes, the disciple began to feel uncomfortable, wondering if his Master would ever reveal the secret.  Just as he was about to ask another question, the Zen Master spoke.  “Do you hear the sound of the mountain stream?”   

    The disciple has not been aware of any mountain stream. He had been too busy thinking about ZEN and how to achieve such a state. Now, as he began to listen for the sound, his noisy thoughts subsided. At first he heard nothing. Then, his thinking gave way to a heightened alertness, and suddenly he did hear the hardly perceptible murmur of a small stream in the far distance.

    “Yes, I can hear it now,” he said.

    The Master raised his finger, and with a sage-like look in his eyes that was both fierce and gentle, he said, “Enter Zen from there.”

    The disciple was stunned. It was his first satori – a flash of enlightenment. He knew what Zen was without knowing what it was that he knew!

    They continued on their journey in silence. The disciple was amazed as the aliveness of the world around him. He experienced everything for the first time. Gradually, however, he started thinking again. The alert stillness became covered up again by mental noise, and before long he had another question.  “Master,” he said, “I have been thinking. What would you have said if I hadn’t been able to hear the mountain stream?”  The Master stopped, looked at him, raised his finger and said, “Enter Zen from there.”

    (Copied here from

    http://www.seekingtruenorth.com/2008/05/entering-zen-can-you-hear-the-mountain-stream/ )

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