2010.01.09 07:00 - Struggle theme session 5

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    The Guardian for this meeting was sophia Placebo. The comments are by sophia Placebo.



    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Sophia :)
    sophia Placebo: morning
    sophia Placebo: :) hi
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Singo Yao :)
    sophia Placebo: hi shingo yo
    Shingo Yao: wan
    sophia Placebo: ohayo ?
    Shingo Yao: bawwow
    SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
    sophia Placebo: lol
    sophia Placebo: have you been here befor shingo?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eliza
    sophia Placebo: hello eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon, Sophia, Shingo. Sorry to be late :)
    Shingo Yao: what do you guys doing here
    SophiaSharon Larnia: np I'm usually late
    sophia Placebo: we meditiate
    Shingo Yao: meditation or something else?
    Shingo Yao: i see
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    sophia Placebo: and something else
    sophia Placebo: we record our conversations and post them online , is that ok with you shingo?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: brb please
    Shingo Yao: i tell good place to mediate "inspire space park" you should be in there
    sophia Placebo: been there befor
    Shingo Yao: no trouble at all
    Eliza Madrigal: We gather four times a day Shingo, engage in micro-meditations (90 seconds while here-every 15 minutes-9 sec otherwise) and have discussions...
    Shingo Yao: nothing hide
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes I like Space Park... fun place... tai chi balls, etc
    Shingo Yao: very specifice , just like german people , are you from german?
    sophia Placebo: shingo ....
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: Today we are going to continue a discussion we've been having on struggle..
    Shingo Yao: i think i am right
    Eliza Madrigal is not not german
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    SophiaSharon Larnia is a mutt so may be have some german
    Eliza Madrigal: but works to be precise... which is an illusive goal
    Shingo Yao: i am from far far east , old man , mononofu
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, well in those terms yes, some german on my father's side...
    Eliza Madrigal: lots of things
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: well, youre the cutest thing Shingo love your avatar
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I've purposely not thought about struggle, in preparation for this session
    Shingo Yao: thanks but you can't tell who i am , just by looking at my profile , you will see my 1st life photo , that's me
    SophiaSharon Larnia: to let it go
    Eliza Madrigal: Interesting, Sophia!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bertram
    Bertram Jacobus: hi all :-)
    sophia Placebo: hi bert
    Shingo Yao: speaking of the discussion , what things you discuss , i am curious if you don't mind
    sophia Placebo: we discuss reality
    Shingo Yao: daily life matter or something more big issue
    SophiaSharon Larnia: youve undergone a makeover Bertram :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm crashed
    Eliza Madrigal: This is a link to our wiki site... Chats on various topics have been recorded for quite a while now. http://playasbeing.wik.is/
    Bertram Jacobus: me ? crash ? no - don´t understand ? sry -
    sophia Placebo: self centered for me and more universal for others , depends
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry i didnt see you move it was so fast lol
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, both, all...
    Eliza Madrigal: hah, yes I thought you poofed too Bert
    Shingo Yao: well , anyway , thanks
    Shingo Yao: see you guys
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Shingo
    sophia Placebo: bye !
    Bertram Jacobus: bye shingo ? ;-)

    Eliza Madrigal: Please join us again Shingo, bye


    Struggle and solidity 

    Bertram Jacobus: was not easy to find a nice place to sit this time ...
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello CosmicFlower :) What a beautiful name!
    Bertram Jacobus: hey cosmicflower :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Cosmicflower
    sophia Placebo: hello cosmicflower
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Thank You ;)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hello to All <3
    Bertram Jacobus: sophia , new skin ? :-)
    sophia Placebo: we would be talking about struggle flower
    sophia Placebo: lol yeah , isnt sl amazing
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, we've gathered a few times before now to discuss this topic from a few angles...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Zen
    Bertram Jacobus: "absolutely" ! :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen
    sophia Placebo: hi zen
    Zen Arado: Hi all
    Eliza Madrigal: Gaya and Sophia began with a discussion of different kinds of struggle...
    Bertram Jacobus: helllo zen :-)
    sophia Placebo: so eliza can you say more about solidity and struggle?
    Eliza Madrigal: My thoughts on 'solidity' have to do with perceived obstacles...
    Eliza Madrigal: on working with the very solid material of our life experiences..
    Eliza Madrigal: things we can't 'wait' to deal with....
    Eliza Madrigal: we feel we can't sit with and work on over prolonged periods...
    Eliza Madrigal: In reading the logs I see this has come up in various ways and surely it seems a PaB practice kind of topic... why we try to bring the practice into every thing....
    Eliza Madrigal: or let everything into the practice... keep it going/continuity?
    Bertram Jacobus: hi magic ! ... :-)
    Zen Arado: Hi Magic
    SophiaSharon Larnia: solidity to me has been lately about change
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Magic
    Eliza Madrigal: Please say more Sharon?
    sophia Placebo: http://playasbeing.wik.is/index.php?...e_session_4%29
    Bertram Jacobus: have a seat if you like :-)
    sophia Placebo: the link of prevouse sessions
    sophia Placebo: hello magic
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Magic, we're continuing a theme session on the topic of 'struggle' today
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, thanks for posting that Sophia!
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hmm, what comes to my mind about "struggle" is to do with different kind of pain
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and where do that come from?
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, and why?
    Bertram Jacobus: and the talks here are recorded and put on a wiki. we must ask all people if thats okay for them - magic ? you allow that ? (otherwise your comments would be cut out) ... :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: we struggle when things change and feel the emptiness of the perceived loss
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and also to do with One-Self`s own choose , how people do choose to think, or act, or both
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes.... loss can be quite painful
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, those kind of things do happen in life all the time, changing.. but what happens if we can just trust.. so that we notice we have trusted on Trut??
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: fear to loose something..
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: can we own anything in here?
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: how we can loose it then?
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Lots of questions Cosmic, but I definitely hear what you are saying....
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, in a big picture way we understand that we can't hold onto things and this is what causes us pain so often....
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Cosmicflower :0 that is the question
    Eliza Madrigal: In a day to day practice way.... We are hit with surprises...
    Eliza Madrigal: and even things we know are coming we can't plan or expect...
    Eliza Madrigal: and that can hit hard
    Eliza Madrigal: in a solid way, perhaps
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: well, its because we can not controll everyhting, and especially others free will to choose
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think
    Zen Arado: cold you unpack what you mean by 'solid' a bit Eliza?
    Zen Arado: or anyone ?
    Eliza Madrigal: tangible, I suppose... obstacles in particular, or realities that must be dealt with, from my view...
    Eliza Madrigal: Others are dealing with this in various ways
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry brb
    Eliza Madrigal: Sharon mentioned change, for instance... How do we day-to-day, moment-to-moment handle change....
    Zen Arado: what is the opposite of solid in this context then?
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: what if we choose not to controll so much, and choose for aceptance instead. Would it then easy the pain?
    Eliza Madrigal: In the last struggle session, Sophia uncovered a clue I think... "The WHY"
    Eliza Madrigal: Cosmic... yes we choose in a large sense... and then perhaps thing act on that choice in a daily sense?
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Yes, I think life if contious creation
    SophiaSharon Larnia: several things going on in rl, sorry again.... solidity in the sense of being present, embodied and mindful of the moments that pass, as standing back and letting experiences present themselves
    Eliza Madrigal: Ahhh
    Eliza Madrigal: So there in a very solid way and yet with space to allow?
    Eliza Madrigal: to work with what comes up?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: well, its a fine line, easy to slip into, forgive me for saying, but mindlessness ;p
    Eliza Madrigal: :)))
    Zen Arado: like a solid 'watcher' in the background?
    sophia Placebo: struggle definitly needs solidity
    SophiaSharon Larnia: no i am the watcher
    Eliza Madrigal: Say more please, sophia?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I am being a funny word too
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (phrase i meant sorry to interupt)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, it came to my mind, that perhaps we choose what to experience at the end. There is no such "force" who "gives" things or issues front of uss
    Eliza Madrigal: Not interrupting at all Sharon :)
    sophia Placebo: to be but a watcher , to let things happen , to accept things that happened needs some sort of solidity from one , i guess i understand sharon right ?
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: if there would be "some one" who says what "comes to" then how is the free will to choose?
    Zen Arado: I'm not so sure we have all that much choice in life
    Zen Arado: maybe a little
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think its all up to Uss
    Eliza Madrigal: or maybe that's all we have zen
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and who we choose to help
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: then right persons "appear" "front of uss"
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Or to help us
    Eliza Madrigal: but we don't see clearly... don't see the millions of choices we can make second-to-second perhaps
    Eliza Madrigal: choices that line up with our heart intentions, etc.
    Zen Arado: most of my reading seems to point more to fluidity - 'going with the flow' rather than soidity - but maybe I am taking your meaning of solidity wring?
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: well, there are limits in human mind
    SophiaSharon Larnia: im not sure if I understood you correctly Sophia, but I think so, I feel less like a watcher and and more as an interface that experiences are presented upon, sort of
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the ego will make what it will of situations
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Zen, i know what you mean, thats why Im trying to work it out
    Eliza Madrigal: When sophia in previous sessions talked about the 'why', I realized that's a powerful clarifier. The ego can make things seem very solid, unmoveable, unchanging
    Eliza Madrigal: and like we are at the mercy of something 'outside'
    Zen Arado: I am trying to break up my ;solid' habit patterne
    sophia Placebo: i meant something like , if you are poor and hungery , and you had a chance to steal from some store , but you stopped and thought wat you are up to and whats so ever made you stop that moment you hold on to it and watch your chance of getting some food vanish , that needs solidity
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but everything changes
    Zen Arado: patterns - have a lot of trouble with that
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm
    Eliza Madrigal: This is something funny to frame. Worth struggling to try, I think though!
    Zen Arado: that sounds more like developing good character traits - the discipline to sit every day for instance?
    Eliza Madrigal: The decision not to steal, sophia, is more 'solid' in a sense... than the need to eat....
    sophia Placebo nods

    Struggle and ego

    Zen Arado: there could be a time you were justified in stealing
    Eliza Madrigal: the knowledge and acceptance of things changing being necessary for life, can perhaps help us to deal with what comes up, too... to get through it
    sophia Placebo nods to zen , we tend to decorate justifications
    Zen Arado: prajna, wisdom, or right understanding - is that what we are loking for here?
    Bertram Jacobus: me - yes :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Definitely, Zen :)
    Eliza Madrigal: At the same time... how to we not let discussions and abstractions become an obstacle themselves...
    Eliza Madrigal: dealing with day-to-day?
    Zen Arado: to see clearly how to act in each situation without having to depend on rules that might be too inflexible?
    Eliza Madrigal nods... we can create distance with 'decorations' perhaps
    Bertram Jacobus: not to depend is an enlightened state (sorry for that word) (?) :-)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hmm ;) if there are "must" or "must not`s" it makes always my "alarm bells to ring" ;)
    Bertram Jacobus: we must die :o)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes or stop putting enlightenment on a pedestal 'away from what we have in our hands/lifes' ?
    sophia Placebo: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: :)))
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: must we?? ;D
    Bertram Jacobus: sure. i saw not one body which hadn´t to -
    Zen Arado: yes we have it now if we allow it
    Bertram Jacobus: it´s a consequence of birth i think
    sophia Placebo: like we choose that bert
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but when we dye, do we dye.. isnt it another life
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: in every way
    Bertram Jacobus: i mean that very simple. not elaborated
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: can we dye?
    Eliza Madrigal: We like to dwell on life, but it is important to realize that death and life are in the same place, perhaps... where we are now
    Bertram Jacobus: i again simply - don´t know
    Zen Arado: Eckhart Tolle warns about putting enlightenment as somethng to be achieved in the future
    Eliza Madrigal: we're surrounded by things that have died or are dying... things that are coming to life, etc
    Bertram Jacobus: nice warning ! :-)
    sophia Placebo: nods to zon
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    sophia Placebo: zen*
    Eliza Madrigal: a line from him I love is "When you are seeing the future, you are seeing it now..."
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: One day I had interesting conversation with one person about enlightement
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think its not the way its "teached"
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: "not to do this or that"
    Eliza Madrigal: that even if you build a time machine and go back to the past, you arrive there 'now'...hehe
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: But following One`s heart
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes nice Cosmic
    Zen Arado: yes Eliza
    Zen Arado: it was always now :)
    Eliza Madrigal: So there is something essential in a way ....
    sophia Placebo: heart works with association with ego , desire and emotions to run the body so one must know where the order to move your body/emotions come from
    Eliza Madrigal: even when we let go we embrace in a larger way, etc..somehow
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;)
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh wow sophia, yes that's a powerful point re emotions/body
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hmm, I think ego is worked with head
    Eliza Madrigal: and how we affect others too, emotionally. We can't always 'help' in a tangible way but we can just be together and it matters
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: And heart do work with One`s own truth
    Zen Arado: emotions are said to be physical manifestations of egoic? thoughts
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go, nice to see everyone, bye for now :)
    Zen Arado: not sure if they are necessarily egoic
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, how about Love then
    Zen Arado: bye Sharon
    sophia Placebo: bye sharon :)
    Eliza Madrigal: well, less ego and the emotions perhaps are clearer?
    Bertram Jacobus: bye sophia s :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, by Sharon. Thanks for coming :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye
    SophiaSharon Larnia: waves
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Bye Sophia
    Eliza Madrigal: but to let go of ego, might be good to shovel out the "Why"
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
    Bertram Jacobus: for me, emotions are a bit similar to thoughts - "only" with more cinging ...
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Is ego always "bad" thing?
    Bertram Jacobus: clinging*
    sophia Placebo: i g2g too , thanks Eliza for this session , it was amazing ! lots of great thoughts
    Eliza Madrigal: no, seems quite necessary to function in the world Cosmic
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks so much Sophia! :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now
    Eliza Madrigal isn't sure we came near the topic but yes some important ideas
    Bertram Jacobus: ego is a problem, because it divides. but a weak ego is a problem too. so it´s explained : first strenghten the ego then dissolve it
    Eliza Madrigal: :))))
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think it might not always be that kind of "thing" we need to get rid off, like most "teatch




    Bertram Jacobus: bye sophia p
    Bertram Jacobus: ;-)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Bye Sophia <3
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I much agree actualy Cosmic....
    Eliza Madrigal: ego perhaps is supposed to be more a tool or outline
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: But what if person do have a Good Will, in every choose to make?
    Eliza Madrigal: and we mistaken it for the 'piont'
    Eliza Madrigal: point rather
    Eliza Madrigal: or center
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Couldn`t ego be beautifull then?
    Eliza Madrigal: if it made room for beauty, for others, mainly ....
    Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh ack
    Eliza Madrigal: sorry bell :)
    Zen Arado: I think the problem is when we identify with the ego - are swamped by it
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hmm, it cames to my mind in short way, that less rules, less sadness and struggle
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes I think of ego as someone coming around with a picture of themselves and putting it in the middle of everything... heh...
    Eliza Madrigal: gorgeous waterfall, with my face on it, etc. :) Even if the face is a nice one, still not appropriate...hehe
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: or less controlling, and instead of it acceptance and understanding
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes
    Eliza Madrigal: but the waterfall wants the observer...
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hmmh, but isn`t there also a deeper ego, what follows us from lifetime to another
    Eliza Madrigal: I have trouble with technicalities sometimes... like what we call one thing or another...
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't think my personality will go from one place to another, for instance
    Zen Arado: yes - we get lost in words
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;)
    Bertram Jacobus: gnarf
    Eliza Madrigal: gnarf?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: sry. wrong window lol
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, on that note... maybe wind up. Funny session... lots of jumping beans
    Zen Arado: (still wondering ) :)
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Eliza Madrigal: hah, yes hard not to wonder about gnarf
    Bertram Jacobus: lol
    Bertram Jacobus: another nickname ... ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal will say Goodbye for now. Thanks everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: bye eliza ! :-)
    Zen Arado: ok bye Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to meet you Cosmic
    Zen Arado: gtg too
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Thank You, <3
    Bertram Jacobus: bye zen
    Zen Arado: bye
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Same, wonderfull to meet you Eliza ;)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: how it was Your week?
    Bertram Jacobus: ty. fine - and yours ? :-)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: very good. had lots of fun happenings
    Bertram Jacobus: what, for example ? :-)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and laughs
    Bertram Jacobus: or which ones ? :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: which kind of ? :-)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: one son of mine had his birthday party
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I met today wonderfull people
    Bertram Jacobus: ah ! how old is he ? :-)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: 8 year old now ;)
    Bertram Jacobus: okayy :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: and where did you meet the nice people ?! :-)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I work as an independent beauty consultant, and i have thought to take another cosmetic serie to my business
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: There were a educational situation of new products
    Bertram Jacobus: oh i see ! :-)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: those people all vere aware of re-incarnation etc "stuff"
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: kind of family reunion to see them ;)
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe. nice :-)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: connected me to creece and egypt... ;)

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