2010.01.10 19:00 - Dreams, Plans, Places, Pomo

The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

This was a comfortable session, although it pulled in a number of directions at once.  As commenter, I add my own subjective recollections. I wonder what it would be like to have the same session annotated by every one of the participants.  We might then see a bit more about how the whole thing gets woven together in whatever mix of custom and improvisation obtains.

Paradise Tennant: hiya cal .. is this your session ?
Calvino Rabeni: Hi, Para - yes it is.
Paradise Tennant: :)

Paradise Tennant: what would you like to talk about ?
Calvino Rabeni: As is often true for me, nearly anything! Anything specific on your mind, Paradise?
Paradise Tennant: yes a couple of possibilities .. one sec
Paradise Tennant: two points firstly

Paradise Tennant: that an enlightened state cannot be reached through reason .. imagination is the better path .. and secondly
Paradise Tennant: how in hinduism . the four mental states .. waking .. dreaming .. non dreaming and a more base level nirvana state .. all contribute to truth ..
Paradise Tennant: both points from the book by huston smith Ihave been reading . thought they were good ones
Calvino Rabeni: Which book is that, Para?
Paradise Tennant: tales of wonder his autobiography .. what a fun life he has had !

FYI, Reader: http://www.amazon.com/Tales-Wonder-Adventures-Chasing-Autobiography/dp/0061154261

Archmage Atlantis: The others have found us
Paradise Tennant: actually faith is a leap of imagination :)
Paradise Tennant: hiya arch :)
Calvino Rabeni: Good topics Paradise
Paradise Tennant: nice ears :)
Archmage Atlantis: I am no longer easily to come here
Paradise Tennant: ?
Archmage Atlantis: Read Shakespeare
Paradise Tennant: :) macbeth ?
Archmage Atlantis: Midsummers night dream
Paradise Tennant: ahhh kk
Paradise Tennant: well a tale of wood sprites :)
Paradise Tennant: lovely to think there are wood sprites
Archmage Atlantis: There are, Paradise, did you choose your SL name without knowing that?
Paradise Tennant: well thought of it as kind of a buddhist play on words .. we are in paradise ..only have to open our eyes
Archmage Atlantis: Magic surrounds us
Paradise Tennant: yes magic does surround us
Paradise Tennant: :)
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: In Japan some people get recognition as "National Treasures" for their contributions.
Paradise Tennant: yes ..
Paradise Tennant: nods
Calvino Rabeni: It would be great if that was done in USA and other countries too.
Calvino Rabeni: This recognition is bestowed on living persons
Paradise Tennant: all to get their would have to use their imaginations and I think their hearts
Calvino Rabeni: In my opinion, Huston Smith qualifies for that honor
Paradise Tennant: smiles .. i like reading autobiographies .. it is always interesting to see how others spend their most precious commodity their life . his has been extraordinary
Paradise Tennant: he is fully open to quote arch to life's magic :)

Calvino Rabeni: In search of intellectual and spiritual treasures, Smith traveled to India to meet with Mother Teresa and befriended the Dalai Lama; he studied Zen at the most challenging monastery in Japan; and he hitchhiked through the desert to meet Aldous Huxley, dropped acid with Timothy Leary, and took peyote with a Native American shaman. He climbed Mount Athos, traipsed through the Holy Land, and was the first to study multiphonic chanting by monks in Tibet, which he recorded with Mickey Hart of the Grateful Dead. Most important, he shared the world's religions with the West
Calvino Rabeni: (copied from Tales of Wonder book)
Paradise Tennant: yes has given me a great reading list :)
Paradise Tennant: he talks about all the ideas and people who have shaped him
Calvino Rabeni: Another very influential person, who just recently passed, is George Leonard
Calvino Rabeni: I think Huston Smith is still alive
Paradise Tennant: :)
Paradise Tennant: yes .... still making a difference although in a nursing home now
Calvino Rabeni: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huston_Smith

Paradise Tennant: he compares time to a cross .. horizontal time ..the chronological events
Paradise Tennant: and the veritcal .. or sacred time that runs beyond measure
Archmage Atlantis: The moment of time is upon us
Archmage Atlantis: We choose now
Archmage Atlantis: It is ordained
Paradise Tennant: ?
Paradise Tennant: ordained to ......
Archmage Atlantis: The buzzard took the monkey for a ride on his back
Archmage Atlantis: straighten up and fly right
Archmage Atlantis: old song
Calvino Rabeni: I know it

Calvino Rabeni: Huston Smith brought different gifts to the world
Calvino Rabeni: For his life long commitment to bringing the world’s religions together to promote understanding, social justice and peace, Smith received the Courage of Conscience Award from the Peace Abbey in Sherborn, Massachusett
Calvino Rabeni: He also made the ideas of many religions understandable to westerners by promoting a kind of integral way to think about them
Paradise Tennant: yeppers tons of awards and was a very slow learner ..made up for it in zeal :)
Archmage Atlantis: I am the last Shaker, I do not understand why
Calvino Rabeni: And his life as a spiritual adventurer is inspiring
Paradise Tennant: no .. arch there are lots of shakers
Paradise Tennant: still a vibrant faith
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: Ah, yes, faith, it lives beyound the body
Paradise Tennant: quakers too for that matter .. very big .. very organized :) I some times go to a quaker meeting house .. it is near where my mom lives .. lovely library and they always have a pot of tea or coffee :) just ask you clean up after ..
Paradise Tennant: so civilized :)
Archmage Atlantis: Nixon was a quaker
Paradise Tennant: ouch nope he most definitely was not a true quaker :) maybe his family was let's hope :)
Calvino Rabeni: Parker Palmer is a true quaker
Archmage Atlantis: smile

Paradise Tennant: my dad was a quaker :)
Paradise Tennant: the real kind :)
Calvino Rabeni: They know how to sit in groups :)

Archmage Atlantis: Listening to Lady Gaga
Archmage Atlantis: Don't have any idea why

Paradise Tennant: nods .. yes .. you sit still listen to the fireplace crackle and once in a long while sometimes a very long while someone says something ..use to find it very hard not to fall aleep when I was a kid
Paradise Tennant: is she good .. I have not heard her ?
Archmage Atlantis: Chaos.....the father/mother of all
Archmage Atlantis: Well there is debate
Archmage Atlantis: if it is a he or a she
Paradise Tennant: is she/he good ?
Archmage Atlantis: good? true to eself, yes
Paradise Tennant: :)
Archmage Atlantis: good is a judgement
Paradise Tennant: yes
Archmage Atlantis: Now the Hawiaan version of Somewhere over the Rainbow
Paradise Tennant: ahh that is a great song! He died ..very yong the singer :) use to tell very rude jokes at his concerts and then sing like an absolute angel . :) sad
Archmage Atlantis: Ukeleles do add something
Archmage Atlantis: We all are allowed to wish upon a star
Paradise Tennant: and what would you two wish for :)

That was a great question!  I was thinking about the Good Witch Glenda.  However it is waylaid by...

Fox Monacular: Hello Calvino, Paradise, Archmage
Paradise Tennant: hiya fox .. so gtsy :))
Archmage Atlantis: Love is a burning thing, ......I wish for love

Fox Monacular: :) I hardly have time to come here these days :(... we're moving in 3 weeks...
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Fox, long time
Calvino Rabeni: I see!
Paradise Tennant: ouch
Calvino Rabeni: Same city?
Fox Monacular: there's so much we have to do before that... try not not think about it too much
Calvino Rabeni: Oh, Boston?  (Ed: memory system kicks in here)
Fox Monacular: Boston, yes
Paradise Tennant: lovely !
Calvino Rabeni: RIght
Calvino Rabeni: I like Boston a lot
Fox Monacular: my husband just rented usan apartmnet htere, now we have to get rid of our apartment here...
Paradise Tennant: boston is a great town ..not that montreal is not but boston is fun
Fox Monacular: yes, definitely, I'm looking forward to it
Calvino Rabeni: What part of town will you live in?
Archmage Atlantis: Harvard and all
--BELL--
Fox Monacular: Commonwealth street... Brighton I think?
Fox Monacular: do you know Boston well, Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: I little, I used to work there, but not live there
Calvino Rabeni: Mostly the cambridge / somerville area
Fox Monacular: nice... I don't know the city well yet, but from what I saw on google street view it 's really nice:)
Archmage Atlantis: It is a center of learning
Paradise Tennant: love google earth .. like you can pick up and go just anywhere then step right into the picture and do a 360 unbelievably cool :)
Archmage Atlantis: Yet I have never been there
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it seems theres a university every half mile
Fox Monacular: yes, that's why we're going... for my husband's post doc
Calvino Rabeni: Which institution for him?
Archmage Atlantis: Princeton was the most close
Fox Monacular: Harvard
Paradise Tennant: you will really enjoy it fox :) great choice
Calvino Rabeni: What academic area is he in?
Fox Monacular: we;ll see if I can get a part tie job with the same supervisor... for now he;s not sure if he'll have funds...
Archmage Atlantis: Well, and the actuaries college by the WTC in NY
Fox Monacular: dream research as well
Archmage Atlantis: Alll gone now
Calvino Rabeni: Interesting :)
Fox Monacular: we are working in the same lab , with the same supervisor:)
Calvino Rabeni: wow
Fox Monacular: romantic - we met in the dream lab
Paradise Tennant: that is romantic :)
Calvino Rabeni: :)^2
Fox Monacular: so it's a really good deal - we help each other with our research, then put each other as co-authors:)
Fox Monacular: and go to the same conferences
Paradise Tennant: :)
Calvino Rabeni: And dedicate books to "the girl of my dreams"
Paradise Tennant: lol cal
Fox Monacular: my husband is now working mostly on dream incorporation and role of REM in memory consolidation
Fox Monacular: :)
Fox Monacular: Robert Stickgold in Harvard works a lot in that same area
Fox Monacular: so it was a natural choice
Archmage Atlantis: Thank you all, this planet shall live, I see it in your text
Calvino Rabeni: YW arch

Calvino Rabeni: I remember hearing about some of your mentors - it seems very interdisciplinary, at least I hope dream research can go in that direction
Paradise Tennant: nite nite arch
Fox Monacular: it can... and it should!

Calvino Rabeni: Earlier we started talking about Huston Smith's popularization of hindu model of states of consciousness
Fox Monacular: I'm not familiar with it... googling..
Paradise Tennant: we were talking earllier about how in hinduism .. the four mental states .. waking dreaming ..non dreaming sleep and a kind of base level nirvana conscioussness all are considered very important .. all contribute to truth
Fox Monacular: right

Paradise Tennant: mentioned in his book tales of wonder he spent 10 years as a hindu .. 10 years as a buddhist and 10 years as a moslem
Paradise Tennant: :)
Fox Monacular: interesting!
Calvino Rabeni: He was in a long and respected tradition of true amateurs
Paradise Tennant: finding the divine in every path of faith
Fox Monacular: true amateurs:) I like that
Calvino Rabeni: The most respected historical figures in science were often amateurs
Calvino Rabeni: Because rather than specializing in an existing area, they advanced into new ones
Calvino Rabeni: and created them as they went

Paradise Tennant: I wonder how sleep or lack of sleep affects our creativity our imagination .. I often find though I never remember my dreams I will wake up with an answer to a problem or at least a fresh perspective on it

Fox Monacular: definitely
Fox Monacular: yes, Paradise, sleep is extremely important for mental functioning
Fox Monacular: and one can argue that dreaming is too
Fox Monacular: a lot of insight comes in dreams:)
Paradise Tennant: yes by immersing themselves completely .. in a world of ideas .. he speaks very lucidly on how tangible ideas are to him
Paradise Tennant: yes I agree ..
Fox Monacular: you know, they did some creepy research on American soldiers, depriving them of REM sleep

Paradise Tennant: like a fermentation of perception
Fox Monacular: and they started to hallucinate a lot in the waking life
Paradise Tennant: they went loopy if I recall
Fox Monacular: yes
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, but don't think of it as hallucination
Calvino Rabeni: because that word is biased
Fox Monacular: why not?
Fox Monacular: you mean biased as in value judgement?
Calvino Rabeni: More accurate representation, is, they simply started dreaming during the day time
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: Yes because it infers a pathology
Fox Monacular: not necessarily anymore

Fox Monacular: Hi doug!
doug Sosa: :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles hiya doug:
Calvino Rabeni: Good to see you Doug
doug Sosa: thanks to all.
doug Sosa: the ice is gone.
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: change being the only constant :)
Fox Monacular: doug, I recall you did your post doc at harvard, any tips on how to live in Boston? :) we have to be there in 3 weeks...
Fox Monacular: :) I can feel change very much these days:)
doug Sosa: wwo. my then wife and i were very lucky to find a small farmhouse about a mile out . Let me mull it.
Fox Monacular: nice:)
Calvino Rabeni: It's good to live near the undergrount T
Fox Monacular: yes, we have just rented an apt just near green B line
Paradise Tennant: can be cold but you are close to the cape .. :) lovely in the summer
Calvino Rabeni: Lots of history to see
doug Sosa: is that out toward belmont?
Fox Monacular: 25 mins from longwood medical area where my husband will be working
Calvino Rabeni: There are some hilly areas in which to hike, not too far away
Fox Monacular: cool:)
Fox Monacular: I think it's in brighton
Fox Monacular: we don't have a car... so we need to be close to public transit
Calvino Rabeni: Take baby to boston commons kiddie wading pool in summer
Fox Monacular: oh, cool, thanks!
Calvino Rabeni: Visit the Glass Flowers museum at harvard
Paradise Tennant: remembers great clam chowder !
Fox Monacular: Glass FLowers? sounds awesome
doug Sosa: what will you be doing?
Fox Monacular: I still have my masters thesis to write up...
Fox Monacular: and then, hopefully my husband's supervisor will have funds to hire me part-time
doug Sosa: neurology stuff right?
Fox Monacular: if not, i'll be looking for a part-time job in May when my bursary runs out
Fox Monacular: dream research
doug Sosa: ah dreams, what neurology does when we are asleep :)

Fox Monacular: my husband is going to work in sleep and cognition lab with Robert Stickgold
doug Sosa: i remember now.
Fox Monacular: yes, more specifically it will be about memory consolidation and REM and non-REM sleep
Fox Monacular: induced experiences incorporation....
Fox Monacular: through virtual reality

Paradise Tennant: sigh .. speaking of sleep .. I have an early morning and still a few chores to do .. sneaks out quietly wishing everyone .. a lovely evening :)
Fox Monacular: good night Paradise
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Para
doug Sosa: wow what a shirt?
doug Sosa: I too can only stay a bit, must be up at 4. And recovering from an all day mass meeting at stanford yesterday.
Fox Monacular: did it go well?
doug Sosa: i think so. students starting initiatives on sustainability.
Fox Monacular: I can't stay too long either, but it's so rare that I get achance to come here...:)
Fox Monacular: nice
Calvino Rabeni: Always a pleasure, Fox
Fox Monacular: when are your sustainability sessions in SL, doug?
Fox Monacular: same here, Calvino:)
doug Sosa: well. I'd love to hang out but I think i need to make some notes and make sure i am not forgetting anything. I did miss a meeting last wednesday.
Fox Monacular: oups
doug Sosa: I do like coming at this hour, when the cat's away..
Fox Monacular: where does the cat go?
Calvino Rabeni: the mice play
doug Sosa: looking for another cat.
doug Sosa: There is a twist. When the mice are away the cat will play..
--BELL--
Fox Monacular: :)
doug Sosa: (doesn't have to work).
Calvino Rabeni: Animals- it's one of my "pet" topics.
Fox Monacular: :)
doug Sosa: ok. timme to go. see you both when.. animlas are wonderful. so full of grace.
doug Sosa: bye.
Fox Monacular: I am allergic to most animals, so it's really sad for me:(
Calvino Rabeni: Take care
Fox Monacular: good night doug
Fox Monacular: where did you work in boston?
Calvino Rabeni: Near Cambridge Center, at a technology company
Fox Monacular: looks like a nice place to be
Calvino Rabeni: I liked it
Calvino Rabeni: Could walk over to MIT at lunch, or take in one of their free activities
Fox Monacular: I'm equally excited and kinda sad to go
Fox Monacular: we have our families here, this is great for our kid... so there we'll have much less support
Fox Monacular: but at the same time boston seems like a really awesome city, and this is a once in a lifetime opportunity
Calvino Rabeni: Good move then
Fox Monacular: oups, my router just restarted... didn't get any of your last remarks...
Calvino Rabeni: I think I just said - sounds like a good move
Fox Monacular: :)
Fox Monacular: i think so too
Calvino Rabeni: A new phase of life is always exciting
Fox Monacular: definitely

Calvino Rabeni: Are you having a "leaving" party?
Fox Monacular: I guess so... although we just had a huge marriage party 3 weeks ago:)
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Well, this is a whole different occasion :)
Fox Monacular: yes, this time it's ok if it's messy
Calvino Rabeni: like a trail of loose ends?
Fox Monacular: hehe... yes that too...
Calvino Rabeni: A wild party with trash the next day?
Calvino Rabeni: BYOB?
Fox Monacular: BYOB?
Calvino Rabeni: American slang - Bring Your Own Bottle - a kind of drinking potluck

Fox Monacular: it's kinda cold for a party with trash...
Fox Monacular: haha, yes, we had tha t at out marriage too - we cooked, guestst brought booze
Calvino Rabeni: Boston is a good walking city
Fox Monacular: at least 2 people were very drunk - means it was a succss
Fox Monacular: that's perfect
Calvino Rabeni: RIght ...
Fox Monacular: we don't have a car
Calvino Rabeni: You can walk around the charles river basin
Fox Monacular: and we don't really want one...
Calvino Rabeni: crossing bridges to lengthen or shorten the walk
Fox Monacular: :)
Fox Monacular: sounds great
Calvino Rabeni: When I go there I like long walk-and-talk with friends
Fox Monacular: yes I like taht too
Calvino Rabeni: I don't know your politics - but Boston is progressive in a nice kind of way
Calvino Rabeni: You'll be busy I suppose
Fox Monacular: it seems so..
Calvino Rabeni: but there are a lot of creative people doing interesting things
Calvino Rabeni: of all kinds
Fox Monacular: I don't know how busy I'll be, but I'll be spending a lot of time with my daughter, so I'll have a lot of opportunity to explore
--BELL--
Fox Monacular: our politics are pretty leftist:)
Fox Monacular: both at home and in quebec
Fox Monacular: are you coming to boston often?
Calvino Rabeni: No, I probably won't until I get work and some spare cash
Fox Monacular: I see
Calvino Rabeni: I worked out of seattle, spent 1 week per month in boston
Calvino Rabeni: for a while that is, and until a year ago
Fox Monacular: what happened?
Calvino Rabeni: Economy - the money came mostly from airline industry, and trickled down to various technology vendors - slowly dried up
Calvino Rabeni: Likewise a very short contract I did around Harvard
Fox Monacular: right.... sorry to hear that
Calvino Rabeni: Well, I have lots of time for reading / writing / hanging out around PaB and Kira :)
Fox Monacular: soon we'll be done with school adn will have to face real life too:)
Calvino Rabeni: Can't complain
Calvino Rabeni: Best luck to you
Fox Monacular: that's nice, I'm actually kind of envious:)
Calvino Rabeni: Well, it is mutual - the grass seems greener on the other side :)
Fox Monacular: thanks, and to you too
Fox Monacular: true:)
Calvino Rabeni: You are in an exciting research area
Fox Monacular: yes, definutely... we'll see though if we're needed as professors...
Calvino Rabeni: Hope you get established
Fox Monacular: that's the reason to go to boston... to get a better resume and experience..
Calvino Rabeni: Right.
Calvino Rabeni: It is a very good networking place
Fox Monacular: it's tricky - we have 4 universities here in Montreal... and we really really want to come back here...
Calvino Rabeni: One of the best in USA, I would guess

Calvino Rabeni: Are there barriers between US and CA in some way?
Fox Monacular: our families are here, it's important for us to stay close... for our child too, we want her to be surrounded by family
Fox Monacular: well, we can travel freely, for work we need a special permission
Fox Monacular: but usually it's not that hard to get, apparently

Calvino Rabeni: I meant intellectually
Fox Monacular: oh:)
Fox Monacular: I don't really know yet:)

Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps Canada has more French philosophy embedded in its academics
Fox Monacular: I wouldn't be so sure:) although french postmodern philosophy is definitely taught here a lot
Calvino Rabeni: I
Fox Monacular: Derrida, Deleuze&Guattari... these guys
Fox Monacular: In humanities only
Fox Monacular: no class can be taught without foucault and lacan
Calvino Rabeni: ..am trying to get a handle on Pierre Levy, for instance, and he's taking off from those guys, with a kind of techno-twist to it
Calvino Rabeni: The language of postmodernism makes pretty dense reading, at least for me
Fox Monacular: me too
Fox Monacular: I like to put guattari books on my coffee table... for visitors... with randomly put notes like "no way!" , "really?", "definitely!" on the margins
Fox Monacular: as a joke
--BELL--
Fox Monacular: but the truth is that I feel that I don't understand anything:)
Calvino Rabeni: :) coffee table trick heh heh :)
Fox Monacular: makes people think that I'm either too smart or totally nuts
Calvino Rabeni: I heard a joke from a philosopher a few days ago
Calvino Rabeni: "The German philosophers have a lot to say - but don't know how to express it...
Calvino Rabeni: with the French, it's the opposite."
Fox Monacular: !
Fox Monacular: hehehe
Fox Monacular: sometimes I feel that too...
Fox Monacular: the language makes me feel like it's written for some kind of initiated elite
Calvino Rabeni: The context of the joke was, I was telling him - I'm rather more interested in style than substance these days
Fox Monacular: which I am not part of
Fox Monacular: :)
Calvino Rabeni: I know the feeling
Calvino Rabeni: maybe its true
Calvino Rabeni: ?
Calvino Rabeni: Regardless, I'm a populist - believe in plain talk
Fox Monacular: well, the joke is funny... so there's something to it:)
Fox Monacular: well, some degree of specificity is often needed when you talk about stuff on a certain level of abstraction....
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, and often for the life of me, I can't find that element
Fox Monacular: but seriously, who can just sit down and read husserl or guattari without extensive background in academic philosophy?
Calvino Rabeni: in which to ground the statements being made
Fox Monacular: I know what you mean
Calvino Rabeni: So I'm unable to say "ok, I know what you mean"
Fox Monacular: :) yes, it's often like that for me too
Calvino Rabeni: A little phenomenology woven in might help
Calvino Rabeni: It's very dense
Fox Monacular: more like merleau-ponty phenomenology

Fox Monacular: I can't get through husserl

Calvino Rabeni: Complicated sentence constructions, self referential, etc.
Fox Monacular: it's always nice talking to you, Calvino, but I should get to bed now
Calvino Rabeni: You want to be able to engage in casual talk with others in your social world, saying "you know, I was reading"...
Calvino Rabeni: Right Thanks Fox, I should go now also
Fox Monacular: well, if you say something like "you know I was reading guattari on subway"...
Calvino Rabeni: Funny
Calvino Rabeni: Take care, good luck with the move
Calvino Rabeni: Bye for now

Fox Monacular: in any case, I find it's hard to find people who are even curious about the same things as you...
Fox Monacular: and the more you learn about a specific topic, the more you get alienated in a way
Fox Monacular: they say "knowledge multiplies sorrows"...
Calvino Rabeni: Right, true in some ways yes
Fox Monacular: and pushes you away from others ... but towards other others at the same tme
Calvino Rabeni: :) Don't get me started :)
Fox Monacular: :)
Fox Monacular: good night, Calvino!
Calvino Rabeni: Good night!