2010.01.12 07:00 - Googlers and the Delicious Moment

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal who deeply enjoyed this session with Geoff, Sharon, Storm, and Yakuzza. :) 

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Geoff! Nice to see you today
Geoff Baily: hi there Eliza, how are you
Eliza Madrigal: Quite well, thank you
Eliza Madrigal: You?
Geoff Baily: fine thanks
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon :)
Geoff Baily: been looking at the first logs. Hi Sharon
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Eliza, Hi Geoff
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, from the earliest days of PaB, Geoff? Have thoughts?
Geoff Baily: Fun to do
Geoff Baily: lots of concern about talking publicly
Geoff Baily: same feels as new people here now
Geoff Baily: Pema of course
Geoff Baily: giving so much support
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Eliza Madrigal nods, yes he really does/has
Geoff Baily: and Storm
Geoff Baily: and all the others
Eliza Madrigal: Yes for sure. Of course when one begins to talk about such personal things with people as pixels from all over the world, there is a hesitation and questioning....
Eliza Madrigal: boundaries are shifting... "What do I want to share?" "What can I not help but share.." :))
Eliza Madrigal: I guess it is is like that in any new relationship?
Geoff Baily: true
Geoff Baily: several relationships all at once
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Geoff Baily: the group "here"
Eliza Madrigal: many levels of interraction
Geoff Baily: the readers
Eliza Madrigal: yes, that too... the unknown element

The Googlers...

Geoff Baily: and the Googlers
SophiaSharon Larnia: and then you do interact with the world in a slightly different way too...lol @ googles :) like me I guess!
Geoff Baily: and of course one makes good friends here too
Eliza Madrigal: yes indeed
Geoff Baily: ;) Sophia!!
Eliza Madrigal needs a 'hidden' google feature for day to day rl interractions...
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Geoff Baily: ah
Eliza Madrigal: I've become accustomed to being able to look things up...hah
Geoff Baily: and be looked up
Eliza Madrigal: We don't need to 'store up' as much perhaps
SophiaSharon Larnia: I htink the pace of conversation in determined by googling, actually
SophiaSharon Larnia: sometime
Eliza Madrigal: yes you're right about that....
Geoff Baily: yes often
Eliza Madrigal: and it is easy to get on the 'same page' more quickly than in RL...
Eliza Madrigal: at least at that level

Presuppositions...

Geoff Baily: there are some presuppositions here usually
Eliza Madrigal: yes?
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Storm :)
Geoff Baily: people tend to be serious questers
SophiaSharon Larnia: i Storm
Storm Nordwind: Hi there!
Geoff Baily: hi Storm
SophiaSharon Larnia: oops that was supposed to be 'hi'
Geoff Baily: just been saying I have been looking at the first logs
Storm Nordwind smiles and feels welcomed anyway :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Geoff Baily: and saying that there was a real sense of a 'beginning" that April
Storm Nordwind remembers

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal sincerely experiences PaB as though she was here since the first day, has attended all retreats and workshops...
Eliza Madrigal: It isn't 'factually' true, but that's my sense :)
Storm Nordwind: It's a beautiful image of child-like wonder :)
Geoff Baily: continuity
Eliza Madrigal: :) Surely a funny and wonderous thing
Geoff Baily: and commitment of many people
Eliza Madrigal: yes indeed, Geoff
Storm Nordwind: Second Life is a powerful meeting place. I wonder if we would have had the same success starting out in RL.
Eliza Madrigal: Well the levels of dynamic certainly couldn't have been the same... international, etc
Geoff Baily: good thought
Eliza Madrigal: And, the amount of time...
Eliza Madrigal: Surely it matters if you can check in between walking from one room to another ... or share something that comes up easily in the course of the day?
SophiaSharon Larnia: the format here is easier to share these things
Eliza Madrigal: Hi ya :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Yakuzz
SophiaSharon Larnia: -a :)
Eliza Madrigal: And the 'bodies' we have here... the tangibility of walking in and being together... yes, quite unique...
Geoff Baily: its availability and openness helps, hiYaku

Blogs and early days...

Storm Nordwind: Many of us started blogs, some for the first time ever, and many were kept assiduously. How many of these keep going I wonder? And does it matter?
Eliza Madrigal: sharing what we are seeing... the beauty/feel of the setting, etc.
Geoff Baily: have looked at some blogs
Geoff Baily: they are there still
SophiaSharon Larnia: what stood out for you the most Geoff, if I may ask?
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I've read a bit of your blog Storm... very powerful in some places and one does get a feel of the newness and energy...
Geoff Baily: mostly I think
Geoff Baily: the commitment of all to work together
Storm Nordwind: I have wondered whether I should restart that blog, or trim the fluff... but it stays as a record, unchanged.
Geoff Baily: but i have only just looked a little way Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Geoff Baily: better left I feel Storm
Eliza Madrigal: Yes
Eliza Madrigal: though it would be great if you started another, too... if you felt inspired to do that
Geoff Baily: I am doing a little cataloging as I go

Twittering Ukiahs..

Storm Nordwind: At the moment, I'm twittering haikus instead. C'est la mode! :)
Eliza Madrigal: Sharon you were writing for a while also?
Geoff Baily: to make it more acessible
Eliza Madrigal: hehe, yes :) Twittering haikus is addicting
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, and still do on ocaasion, put it down for a while and take it back up
Geoff Baily: ;)
Storm Nordwind: Though today I tried my first "ukiah" instead! ;)
SophiaSharon Larnia: usually just write when things are ata kind of 'extreme'
SophiaSharon Larnia: ukiah?
Geoff Baily: ;)
Storm Nordwind: ukiah is haiku spelt backwards!
SophiaSharon Larnia: doh
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Geoff Baily: ;)
Storm Nordwind: It's an arachic haiku written in 7-5-7 instead of 5-7-5
SophiaSharon Larnia: so is the 575, 757 or what?
Eliza Madrigal: haha... yes love those things so obvious we cant see...
Storm Nordwind: *anarchic
Geoff Baily: anarchy rules ok
Eliza Madrigal: fun to flip things over
Eliza Madrigal: my first blog was like that too, btw, Sharon... extremes and little editing....
SophiaSharon Larnia: archaic ?
Geoff Baily: haha
SophiaSharon Larnia: ah yes im slow today
SophiaSharon Larnia: zzz giggles
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Storm Nordwind chuckles

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: thinking about the strong commitment... that comes from having a sense of care of what deeply resonates....
Eliza Madrigal: a personal responsibility/urge to dig in...
Eliza Madrigal: it IS very inspiring to see how things have developed... settled
Storm Nordwind: An intuitive impulse to support the growth, no matter what

Helplessness...

SophiaSharon Larnia: for me its a much more helpless feeling thing, the knowledge is out there, taking me with it
SophiaSharon Larnia: i am not able to not see it, or not notice
SophiaSharon Larnia: not seek
Eliza Madrigal: hmm... what an interesting way to say that Sharon...
Storm Nordwind: A fish does not the see the current of the river as it flows :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: im only speaking frommy heart i guess
Geoff Baily: its very powerful
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Eliza Madrigal: its a willing helplessness ?
Geoff Baily: a collection of collaborating seekers
Eliza Madrigal smiles
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes for the most part, my anxieties and pain seem to come from resistance
Geoff Baily: searching together
Geoff Baily: for they know not what!
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Storm Nordwind: only guided by a sense of numinous
Geoff Baily: !
Geoff Baily: candle
Geoff Baily: luminous

Storm Nordwind: When the sun rises, there is no longer any need to search for it with a candle!

SophiaSharon Larnia: its especially difficult, in my view, if you dont have the academic background, or the memory for self taught information
Geoff Baily: true if it is the sun we seek Storm
Storm Nordwind: You think so Sophia? Some would think that's an advantage.
Geoff Baily: difficult i think
SophiaSharon Larnia: it would be eisier for me to communicate if I had the philosophical basis to refer to.... I have often thought things and then later found out which philosopher said what
Geoff Baily: without guidance from someone
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes im seeing more clearly the need for a teacher
Storm Nordwind: I understand Sophia, though there's always the danger of getting hidebound by one's accumulated concepts
Eliza Madrigal finds that a double edged sword... Many seem to have to get through layers and layers of philosophers to access a sense of the resonance we mentioned....

Teachers and Memory...

SophiaSharon Larnia: oh yes thats true, but it would be easier if i could just say, its like soandso
Storm Nordwind nods
Geoff Baily: chosing one's teacher is often the most difficult step
SophiaSharon Larnia: especially since my memory seem to have seive like properties :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles... yes. I experience this too, Sharon
Geoff Baily: *choosing
SophiaSharon Larnia: sieve*
Storm Nordwind: Finding a resonance with a teacher is sometimes a most difficult yet most satisfying step.
Geoff Baily: very personal
SophiaSharon Larnia: deciding was hard enough im very hard headed ;p
Storm Nordwind: Like me Sharon, you are the "leaky pot" (as Buddhist teachers would say)!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
Eliza Madrigal: the worst horse, in zen terms?
Geoff Baily: :)
Storm Nordwind: I find memory was the second thing to go as I got older. (I can't remember what the first thing was...)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Eliza Madrigal: In dealing with kids with 'special learning needs' I came to be far more compassionate for my own glitches, which doesn't mean I wouldn't choose not to have them most days...

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i have not been very compassionate with myself about this
Geoff Baily: good not to remember everything
Geoff Baily: thats a burden
SophiaSharon Larnia: but we do i think, its sored in our nervous systems, in the subconscious
Geoff Baily: some carry and its not easy
SophiaSharon Larnia: stored*
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I feel I've made a preconscious choice... a matter of closing some doors to open others... maybe just justifying but its an interesting question
SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting ;)
Storm Nordwind: subconscious learning, too, is possible.
Eliza Madrigal: ohhh yes true...
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: not to pick at sematics, but by preconscious Eliza what do you mean, like before this life
Geoff Baily: Libet showad we decide before we kno< we have
Geoff Baily: *know
Eliza Madrigal: Hm... it isn't exactly like 'in a life before this one', but more... a deepest sense of something, and having come into play with a determination not to lose sight of it...
Eliza Madrigal: odd
Eliza Madrigal: to articulate also
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: know before we know... yes nice phrase
Geoff Baily: intuition again!
Eliza Madrigal nods
Storm Nordwind: A rediscovery, or a knowing of what to discover?
Eliza Madrigal: hmmm
Geoff Baily: yes perhaps
Eliza Madrigal: wow or both

A Clear Example...

Eliza Madrigal: Storm do you think we can learn 'practical' skills subconsciously? Memory skills?
Storm Nordwind: I had a clear example happen to me once
SophiaSharon Larnia: i feel intuitively that it a rediscovery, but have to seriously question where this 'intuition' comes from, if its the result of concepts that i have picked up so far
Eliza Madrigal listens
Storm Nordwind: I've played the guitar for over 40 years. After about 5 years or so there was a particular part of a well-known rock number I could never play. And then for various reasons, I couldn't play, own or even touch a guitar for 5-10 years. When I picked up a guitar after that time, within a day or two I thought "I wonder if I can play that thing I could never do?" And I played it instantly!
SophiaSharon Larnia: wow!
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: !! yes, wow
Geoff Baily: yes!
Eliza Madrigal: Timing.. or just intuitive growth/development of some sort?
Eliza Madrigal: What's your sense of that?
Storm Nordwind: It seemed I continued to learn without having an instrument available
Storm Nordwind: (For reference it was the lead riff exactly 2 minutes into "Good Times Bad Times" by Led Zeppelin!)
Eliza Madrigal: ambitious too
Eliza Madrigal: "A pearl diver does not know how to swim, no matter, pearls are handed to him on the beach." Rumi
SophiaSharon Larnia: you had that song in your head for 5-10 years :)
Geoff Baily: perhaps no pressore to do anything released you in some way Storm
Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes a kind of dropping... or even 'thinking' one gives up being able to do something...

Predictability and Confidence...

Storm Nordwind: Whatever the mechanism, it appears to work. I suspect it has practical (if not exactly predictable) uses.
Geoff Baily: if I think where the keys are on the keyboard i am lost
--BELL--
Geoff Baily: ad enogh as it is§§§
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes the unpredictablity of it makes it difficult to assess, but worth looking into :)
Eliza Madrigal: Sharon I guess past lives model supports that sense of rediscovering kind of intuition as a 'learned skill' almost.... but then thinking about timing ... in another way it seems to be just 'present'
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes... i have thought along that line as well/
Geoff Baily: *bad enought as it is!!!
Storm Nordwind: I think part of it is self-confidence. It grew over that time. I now seem to have the knack of being able to say "I am" or "I can" - and it happens
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes confidence is a biggie
SophiaSharon Larnia: opening the way, seeing a glimpse, and seeing more beyond that glimpse, in the moment
Geoff Baily: true Storm
Eliza Madrigal: the capacity to give concentrated attention, too
Eliza Madrigal: like the guitar skill was on the backburner :)
Storm Nordwind: sorry... eh... what... pardon? ;)
Eliza Madrigal: hah
SophiaSharon Larnia: now that is something i lack, or at least the perceive sensation of lack
SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry Storm, eliza was commenting on something we said earlier
Eliza Madrigal: perceiving lack would be where the confidence would come in...
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Storm Nordwind was just demonstrating his inability to give concentrated attention :)
Eliza Madrigal: (Storm lost attention... needs to learn to concentrate) hehe

Mindfulness...

SophiaSharon Larnia: where the mindfulness comes in
Eliza Madrigal: Okay... but where does the mindfulness come 'from'?
Eliza Madrigal grins
Yakuzza Lethecus: isnt´the question, where did we loose our mindfullness when we grew up ?

Geoff seems to have a way of throwing in a line I don't see until I post the log... and this one was a goodie. :)

Geoff Baily: or the mind Eliza
Yakuzza Lethecus: :P
Eliza Madrigal: I ask in that way because I've 'struggled' often with 'trying' to be mindful...
Eliza Madrigal: maybe we can access it in the same way we've been talking about
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, to go out on a limb and reveal my self in the log, maybe the mindfulness is always there, but is obscured by the concepts and ideologies we pick up on the way
SophiaSharon Larnia: the clouds in the sky
Storm Nordwind: Trying can eventually become what you do and then become what you are
Geoff Baily: to me its all entangled as a big puzzle
Geoff Baily: so difficult to get at
Eliza Madrigal: hmmm.. concepts, ideologies... even philosophers :))
Storm Nordwind: In a way I suspect mindfulness is less about trying to do something and more about not doing other things!
Geoff Baily: let go
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Eliza Madrigal: hmm, yes that cuts through a lot...
Geoff Baily: but dosent explain
Eliza Madrigal: Yakuzza do you think you were mindfull as a child?
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i think children are very mindful and in the moment
Yakuzza Lethecus: at least to some point, if it´s generalizable
Yakuzza Lethecus: i think i was much more and wasn´t constantly thinking about daily life issues which i can´t get loose from
Storm Nordwind: If mindfulness is defined as being in the moment, I don't think I've ever lost it - and maybe be more so now I'm older
SophiaSharon Larnia regularly floats down the task oriented checklist
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Storm Nordwind smiles
Eliza Madrigal: there's definitely a way that they're in the moment more than most adults ... but they don't have that confidence that comes from working with things and getting through yet maybe...
Eliza Madrigal: well, yes shouldn't generalize... some seem to
SophiaSharon Larnia: am working to be being more mindful during this, because it IS
Eliza Madrigal pauses with IS for a moment
SophiaSharon Larnia: it is that moment, just as sitting comfy at hme is that moment, im still trying to keep in the front of my awareness
SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry typos etc..
Eliza Madrigal hears you through the typos :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: would love to chose which moment is that moment, but it doesnt work that way, is the wanting to chose that moment a form of grasping, desiring?
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: What do you have left when you stop thinking about the future or reflecting about the past?
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm, has a boxed answer, but I'm trying to find out for myself
Eliza Madrigal: choosing which moments does have a sense of pinning down something 'back there' or 'over there'
Storm Nordwind: I would not want to choose a moment. To do so I would have to step out of the Now, and I would lose contact with the moment that was already there, is already here.
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Geoff Baily: true
Eliza Madrigal: one doesn't want to be in a 'waiting' to be chosen by a moment either.... ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eliza Madrigal: or maybe they do :) Some moments are nice to be chosen by.... hehe

Geoff and Yakuzza say Goodbye, and Storm draws attention to the 'delciousness of the moment'...

Geoff Baily: I must go now, thanks all; see you again soon.
Storm Nordwind: Bye Geoff!
Eliza Madrigal: but I realize we are getting more to that nice/not nice is an unecessary distinction....
SophiaSharon Larnia: Bye Geoff!
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Bye Geoff
Geoff Baily: Bye all
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you today
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Eliza
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Yakuzza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Ya :) Nice to see you too
Storm Nordwind: The Present Moment has a deliciousness that I don't want to leave. I guess I'm addicted!
SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
Eliza Madrigal smiles widely
Eliza Madrigal: and keeps smiling :)
Eliza Madrigal: I'm quite moved by our conversation today , Thank you

Further Goodbyes...

Eliza Madrigal has to skedaddle....
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)) me too
SophiaSharon Larnia: and has to go also
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now. Enjoy the day
Storm Nordwind: Thank you all :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Eliza and Storm!
Storm Nordwind waves