2010.01.16 19:00 - A PaB Village Cafe?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

    Pema Pera: Hi Eliza!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema :)
    Pema Pera: Any topic you'd like to talk about?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, not in particular... a little groggy. I was just listening to an audio.. Krishnamurti discussing why anything true can't have a path...
    Pema Pera: do you know roughly when that talk was recorded?
    Eliza Madrigal: (My text hasn't shown up for me)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm.. Looking and it doesn't say
    Eliza Madrigal: Setting aside baggage that comes with words like 'true'... I liked that he draws attention to the idea that only something that would be fixed in one place could have a path
    Eliza Madrigal: (audios are great when one has a cold... makes good use of the time) :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: one way to interpret such sayings is that paths in themselves are fine, if you don't absolutize them
    Pema Pera: but words are always tricky . . . .
    Eliza Madrigal nods... yes I like that phrasing too
    Pema Pera: it *is* important to be totally engaged, and yet it is also important to not be blindly engaged
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos :)
    Pema Pera: hi Eos!
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Eliza, Pema!
    The rest of the session it would be just the three of us.
    Pema Pera: Eliza was talking about listening to Krishnamurti.
    Pema Pera: I have an interesting kind of connection with him: An uncle of mine went to hear him speak in the early nineteen thirties in Holland, and I attended a talk by him in 1971 . . . .
    Eos Amaterasu: !
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah! Nice, Pema
    Pema Pera: also, the very first text that I ever read about spirituality was in January 1970, the first publication by Krishnamurti
    Eliza Madrigal: Do you remember how it struck you then?
    Pema Pera: it gave me an amazing sense of freedom, of possibility of choice, of freedom to look beyond what we normally consider as limitations
    Pema Pera: it was the same month that I decided to become vegetarian: an example of a choice that I didn't realize I had
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm, possibility of choice. yes, that's wonderful
    Pema Pera: what happened is that I met a guy who was vegetarian, I asked him why he was, then he asked me why I wasn't, then I realized I didn't have a good answer, so I became vegetarian too
    Pema Pera: then he gave me a copy of that very short first publication by Krishnamurti :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: hah, funny little shifts
    Eliza Madrigal: wide reverberations
    Pema Pera: indeed, I was in high school then, 17 years old
    Eliza Madrigal: Jan of 1970, I was in the works, not yet born! :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: excuse me for a second... going to re-log... having text issues
    Eos Amaterasu: wb
    Eliza Madrigal: ty :)
    Pema Pera: how are the text problems :-) ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Text still slow... and both you and Eos are clouds... we'll see...
    Eos Amaterasu: hmm
    Pema Pera wondering how it must be to slowly see words appearing from clouds . . . .
    Pema Pera: poetic?
    Eliza Madrigal: I suppose one could see it that way :)
    Eos Amaterasu: sentences are flight patterns of words....
    Eos Amaterasu: history is a bit like that: events made sense of, retrospectively
    Pema Pera: brb
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, true...
    Eliza Madrigal: One can't make sense of patterns from within them easily
    Eos Amaterasu: so we create little reflections of them, like capturing a scene in a bubble
    Pema Pera: sorry, phone call, back again
    I brought a the question of a possible next step in PaB.
    Pema Pera: I have been thinking a bit this morning (morning here in Japan): PaB is almost two years old now
    Eliza Madrigal listens...
    Pema Pera: and I'm wondering whether it would be a good time to focus a bit more on the notion of Being
    Pema Pera: we have a great community, we are playful, but perhaps the idea of Being is something we still haven't focused very much on
    Pema Pera: in this connection, I also thought about the TSK workshop, which will end in March
    Pema Pera: we have been talking about what to do next, and I mentioned that it might be more appropriate to do any follow-up for that within PaB rather than with a Kira workshop (like the Kira Time Workshop which is currently where we read the Time, Space, Knowledge book).
    Pema Pera: And given that at April 1 PaB exists exactly two years, that may be a good time to start some Being discussion group or some such thing
    Eliza Madrigal nods.. sure!
    Pema Pera: more than just a few theme sessions, perhaps as a separate series of meetings in the Village Hall
    Pema Pera: any suggestions?
    Eos Amaterasu: So not the kind of little micro-lab sessions that PaB does here....
    Eos Amaterasu: flanked by discussion
    Eos Amaterasu: but more structured thematic discussion?
    Pema Pera: I've been thinking about something complementary to the lab sessions here
    Pema Pera: yes, indeed
    Pema Pera: perhaps with, gasp, home work :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Some of us love homework
    Pema Pera: hahaha
    Pema Pera: so the style could be more Kira Workshop like, but the topic will be the core of PaB
    Pema Pera: and therefore the Village Hall might be a better place than the Kira Cafe, don't you think?
    Eos Amaterasu: Hall vs Cafe
    Pema Pera: vs Pavillion
    Pema Pera: -l
    Eos Amaterasu: It's a nice , big, open space, with a bit of formality along with openness
    Pema Pera: (sorry, being called again, back in a few minutes -- keep musing please !)
    Eos brought up an interesting idea, that then became the title for the current session.
    Eos Amaterasu: I've actually been thinking that having a café right next to the hall might be good
    Eliza Madrigal: yes! formality and openness
    Eos Amaterasu: there could be formalized animations accompanying the taking of positions
    Eliza Madrigal: h/me nods... in the area where Gen and Tarmel threw the party?
    Eliza Madrigal: We all seem to love the Village Hall.. the feel of sitting there...
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes, perhaps the other side
    Eos Amaterasu: the Hall is a good mixture or Japanese, Chinese, and British parliamentary aesthetic
    Eliza Madrigal: unique :)
    Eliza Madrigal: it would be a wonderful environment to have these kinds of discussions in... then maybe wander out to sit with espresso in the cafe ;-)
    Eos Amaterasu: I haven't been to that many Kira seminars....
    Eos Amaterasu: I like the idea of the identity seminar
    Eos Amaterasu: who's being who?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, should be fun :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Pema mentioned having choices and options... Surely that's one way people can explore in SL.. :)
    Eos Amaterasu: makes you realize the options you have
    Pema Pera: back! sorry about those RL intrusions -- will read the previous part now
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd like to hear how TSK focuses us on Being, more...
    Eos Amaterasu needs to read that book
    Eliza Madrigal: yes!
    Pema Pera: A cafe near the Village Hall, great idea! Life around a Village Square
    Pema Pera: Well, TSK *is* about Being
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pema Pera: Time and Space and Knowledge are in some sense facets, and in some sense each of them is Being itself
    Pema Pera: the logic/topology is a bit unusual :)
    Pema Pera: But we don't have to focus on TSK at all, if we start a series of Being sessions
    Pema Pera: we can and probably should just start from scratch, seems more natural and open
    Eliza Madrigal: So one week we'll discuss Being Time, then Being Space...
    Pema Pera: we can start with what appears, and how we can use each appearance as a portal to what IS, and take it from there, using reports from the daily life of all participants, together with what we all intuit as directions of further inquiry.
    Pema Pera: perhaps, Eliza, or perhaps we can just forget about Space and Time and Knowledge for a while
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Eliza Madrigal: yes okay... listening
    Pema Pera: just focusing on approaches to Being, and then later bring in TSK among other traditions
    Pema Pera: but anyone can bring in anything they like!
    We segue to the topic of scratch :)
    Eos Amaterasu: re starting from scratch, what is that scratch, what is the question, what is generating the question
    Pema Pera: start by watching what appears, and view that as a doorway to what IS
    Pema Pera: does that sound like a reasonable scratch :-) ?
    Eos Amaterasu: "fundamental knowing resolve onto the essence of Being"
    Pema Pera: (or itch?)
    Eos Amaterasu: the itch is already some knowingness
    Eos Amaterasu: otherwise why have an intention
    Pema Pera: yes, but terms like fundamental and knowing seem already a bit too much, perhaps
    Eos Amaterasu: yea, I was exploring the "itch"
    Pema Pera: starting with the appearance of what appearance may be simpler?
    Pema Pera: ah, hahaha, yes
    Pema Pera is looking for a minimal itch
    Eos Amaterasu: it's appearance, but not just content with surface appearance
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pema Pera: no, sheer appearance
    Pema Pera: only the presence of the appearing of whatever appearch, before any judgment
    Eos Amaterasu: sheer down you're deep :-)
    Pema Pera: bar talk, in the Being bar next to the Village Hall?
    Pema Pera: Being's babbling brook . . .
    Eos Amaterasu: there's a premonition that appearance is a shining out
    Eos Amaterasu: it kind of just happens
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: how rupakaya appears from dharmakaya, in Buddhist terms
    Eos Amaterasu: and like the vegetarian & Krishnamurti account, it makes sense
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: also intersects with applied play as being
    Eos Amaterasu: play affects being
    Pema Pera: or perhaps how all three kayas appear, on an even more radical interpretation
    Pema Pera: yes, the play part could be seen as the spontaneous sheer appearance
    Eos Amaterasu: also that it's form appearing, but also action appearing
    Eos Amaterasu: so applied PaB: action arising from being not departing from being
    Pema Pera: yes, and time and space appearing for action to take place in
    Eos Amaterasu: attending to it, time / space / being , you arise more from it
    Pema Pera: in that way anything we can possibly talk about is "applied" :-)
    Pema Pera: the appearance of you arises
    Eos Amaterasu: Can we give that "applied" part the same kind of attention we give the "play" part?
    Pema Pera: more accurately even: only the presence of appearance of you arises
    Pema Pera: the two cannot be really separated, I think, Eos
    Pema Pera: If "applied" applies to anything we can talk about, perhaps the label doesn't help so much, and we may as well drop it, no?
    Eos Amaterasu: I think Doug and Gen feel it's a challenge to keep them together re sustainability
    Pema Pera: I'm looking forward see where Doug and Gen will go with their sessions, an interesting adventure -- may well be complementary to a Being oriented series of sessions; starting from two different sides
    Eos Amaterasu: Perhaps it's like seeing the complement of the 90 seconds as a "time out";
    Eos Amaterasu: if can be a "time in"
    Eos Amaterasu: the latter is more "applied"; the former is more "pure"
    Eos Amaterasu: ultimately they are both presence of appearance :-)
    Pema Pera: and then the next step is seeing the pure in the applied and the applied in the pure
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, my cloudy revelations of Being... Thank you :)
    Eos Amaterasu: We are still clouds :-)
    Pema Pera looks around, seeing no clouds . . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Night.. pleasure always
    Pema Pera: sleep well, Eliza!
    Eos Amaterasu: Good night, Eliza
    Pema Pera: I have to go too
    Pema Pera: Night to you too, Eos!
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, midnight here, good night, good morning
    Pema Pera: afternoon here already :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Night /Day :)
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