2010.01.24 19:00 - Comfort and Drama

The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

What follows is, in my opinion, an interesting and chaotic, even confusing, session which contained a number of powerful ideas worth a seminar or at least a theme session.  Things went in different directions at once, and the resulting creative tensions were only handled through multiple applications of the secret "onogokko" practice.

And this became one of those sessions I wish were commented independently by each of the participants. I believe it would look quite different from each viewpoint.  Were there world, and time enough...

The meeting guardian, that would be myself, starts things out as a bad example by being stuck on a phone call for the first few minutes of the session.  Then as luck would have it, Eliza shows up with a guest.

Calvino Rabeni: good evening
Flux Constantine: hi
Bleu Oleander: hi
TH Ordinary: hi!
Bleu Oleander: a quiet evening here tonight?
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza
TH Ordinary: hi Eliza
Calvino Rabeni: :) i have rl call - will have more attn soon
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Calvino, Bleu, TH....
Eliza Madrigal: have made a new friend.... one sec... tp-ing him
Calvino Rabeni: hi eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, and Hi Flux too
Flux Constantine: hi
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Benedizone :)
TH Ordinary: hi Benedizone
Eliza Madrigal: So everyone, this is a new friend Sitar...
Bleu Oleander: hi Sitar
TH Ordinary: hi Sitarr
Sitar Ishelwood: hi team!
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eliza Madrigal: Do we have a topic tonight?
Bleu Oleander: not yet
Benedizione Vita: hello everyone
Calvino Rabeni: The floor is open to proposals for that :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Benedizione

Benedizione Vita: I propose playing as not being as the topic
Eliza Madrigal: Fascinating Topic, Bene :)
TH Ordinary: what is that?
Calvino Rabeni: mmm, something more serious then?
Calvino Rabeni: Oh, I reparsed
Sitar Ishelwood: work as play?
--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Work as play is excellent, too

Benedizione Vita: play as not being is: consider, for a moment, the possibility that you are exactly what you think you are
Benedizione Vita: this is actually probably not immediately clear, or maybe immediately not clear, but sometimes it is hard to say exactly what we think we are
Benedizione Vita: so one might begin with entertaining the notion that one is, for example, simply a collection of atoms, or an isolated ego, or whatever starting point seems natural
TH Ordinary: do you think there is a self?
Calvino Rabeni: hmm, that might be a little entertaining, Bene
Benedizione Vita: TH, not only is there a self, but that is exactly what I am
Benedizione Vita: I am a self, and I sit here in opposition to the whole world
Benedizione Vita: ;)
Calvino Rabeni: But the usual complex story has more drama to it

Benedizione Vita: then let us play, calvino, and may the muses whisper sweet nothings into our ears

Calvino Rabeni: You have a dramatic opposition - self vs world
Benedizione Vita: yes, I struggle very hard, me this self
Benedizione Vita: the world is very cruel to me
Calvino Rabeni: That is a heroic beginning

Benedizione Vita: no matter how hard I try, I never seem to be able to ground myself in any larger purpose or sense of meeting
Benedizione Vita: I feel so contained
Calvino Rabeni: Anyone else feel that way?
Eliza Madrigal: Contained?
Calvino Rabeni: Contained , separate
Calvino Rabeni: The world is in this container, I am in that
Calvino Rabeni: Or the other way around
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, sure there are times... not too often I must admit, these days...

Sitar Ishelwood: why is there struggle?
Sitar Ishelwood: i only struggle when i believe something isnt as it should be
Sitar Ishelwood: which certainly happens alot
Calvino Rabeni: Well, can we catch a struggle in the act?
Calvino Rabeni: What struggle happened recently?
Sitar Ishelwood: and trace it back to a belief?
Eliza Madrigal: The word purpose placess unecessary pressure sometimes, too....
Calvino Rabeni: What is the basis for assuming it is unnecessary?
Eliza Madrigal: That we have an idea in our heads of what it means to feel a sense of purpose...
Eliza Madrigal: which drains energy
Eliza Madrigal: and then undermines the work we may be engaged in... bringing purpose TO?
Calvino Rabeni: As contrasted with - what happens with the energy instead?
Sitar Ishelwood: right, the concept limits the flow
Eliza Madrigal: yes, what is there
Calvino Rabeni: But in nature, things need pressure, and pressure is what happens when flow encounters resistance
Eliza Madrigal: each of us may 'struggle' in different ways though... sure

Calvino Rabeni: So keep on fighting, that is life
Eliza Madrigal: hm
Benedizione Vita: here here!
Benedizione Vita: let us fight
Sitar Ishelwood: yes, even resistance has its own arc
Benedizione Vita: let us struggle
Eliza Madrigal doesn't think of it that way... but remembers liking a good fight song years ago....
Sitar Ishelwood: if we enjoy it, do it
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Sitar Ishelwood: i prefer less struggle than more, but thats just me
Calvino Rabeni: What if it was thrilling and fulfilling to struggle, would you like it then?
Eliza Madrigal: yes where would doing without doing fit into this... isn't 'play', that, amidst work, etc
Calvino Rabeni: Some struggles are worth it
Calvino Rabeni: some aren't
Sitar Ishelwood: i enjoy the occasional, meaningful struggle
Calvino Rabeni: Yes

Benedizione Vita: remember, we are "playing as not being"
Sitar Ishelwood: i still dont get that topic
Eliza Madrigal: Struggle to let go perhaps
Benedizione Vita: of course, you don't have to if you don't want to :)
Eliza Madrigal: like maybe I have to struggle not to be?
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Benedizione Vita: well, the idea is playing as being playing as not being
Eliza Madrigal: okay, will be cooperative :)
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: Hmm, I will not Be, when I am dead.
Calvino Rabeni: I am a pile of atoms - endowed by my creator with infinite aspirations and desires
Flux Constantine: they say people in the bardo don't realize they are dead
Benedizione Vita: maybe we are all already dead
Benedizione Vita: what would that mean?
Calvino Rabeni: I heard a master storyteller yesterday - his story was about that idea
Calvino Rabeni: We are already dead, and don't know it - was the creepy idea of that story :)
Sitar Ishelwood: oh who cares about that
Sitar Ishelwood: whats the difference
Eliza Madrigal: Its actually not that creepy I think....
Calvino Rabeni: Not that creepy - actually it feels familiar
Eliza Madrigal: Well doesn't it touch on dreaming within dreaming?

Benedizione Vita: onigokko
Eliza Madrigal: And waking within waking...
Benedizione Vita: stop
Sitar Ishelwood: if i am acatepillar dreaming im a butterfly, or a butterly dreaming im a catepillar
Sitar Ishelwood: at the end of the day, i still need to clean the litterbox
Eliza Madrigal wonders why she didn't onigokko....
Flux Constantine: if you weren't afraid of dying, you wouldn't be afraid of a messy litterbox
Sitar Ishelwood: im not afraid of a messy litterbox. I just love my cat.
Benedizione Vita: your cat is already dead, silly
Sitar Ishelwood: well, then where does all the poop come from?
Calvino Rabeni: so in what way are we already dead?

Eliza Madrigal: onigokko
Benedizione Vita: ahahahaha
Eliza Madrigal: stop
Calvino Rabeni: I never actually seem to catch Eliza, no matter how I run :)

Benedizione Vita: my my, the "play has not being" suggestion has produced so much chaotic energy, it seems :)
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Sitar Ishelwood: uh oh!
Eliza Madrigal has lots of practice
Benedizione Vita: one day you will catch her, calvino
Benedizione Vita: she will trip over a pixel
Eliza Madrigal: especially in these shoes
Sitar Ishelwood: to answer the question, in what way am i dead...
Calvino Rabeni: So how many here would like less drama in life? Or is it more?
Calvino Rabeni: Listens
Flux Constantine: I want to be surprised :)

Sitar Ishelwood: the parts of myself that i cannot accept, may as well be dead
Calvino Rabeni: nice
Eliza Madrigal cannot answer that question, honestly... but I think I agree with Flux on this one...
Eliza Madrigal: onigokko
Calvino Rabeni: as an example, not as a good situation
Eliza Madrigal: stop
Bleu Oleander: that's a goldilocks kind of thing ..... want drama that's just right
Calvino Rabeni: when was your last surprise, flux?
Benedizione Vita: who wants the drama?
Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni raises hand to vote for drama
Eliza Madrigal nods @ Bleu

Benedizione Vita: right, but what I mean is, who wants it calvino? what is it that wants?
Calvino Rabeni: tell me
Sitar Ishelwood: my drama level is acceptable at present

Eliza Madrigal looks at Bene suspiciously... starts the onigokko but doesn't play....
Calvino Rabeni: bene finds it dramatic to do that :)
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Benedizione Vita: I am a very suspicious person, eliza ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Instigator
Calvino Rabeni: I've seen it happen numerous times heh heh :)

Sitar Ishelwood: can we get a definition of drama
Bleu Oleander: oh i see, who is it that thinks if wants or doesn't want drama

Benedizione Vita: muahahaha
Benedizione Vita: precisely, bleu :)
Calvino Rabeni: Defining drama takes the fun out of it :)
Calvino Rabeni: But people know it when they see it, some say

Eliza Madrigal sees a thought bubble over each av head, with a different picture
Sitar Ishelwood: aye, ill give you that

Benedizione Vita: drama is what people call the things in their life they claim not to want but can't do without ;)

Calvino Rabeni: Funny roles, lots at stake, juicy relations, places to go, things to do
Sitar Ishelwood: and therefore have to blame on others?
Calvino Rabeni: Well, I have had dramatic things I liked also
Calvino Rabeni: More than ones I didn't care for
Eliza Madrigal: I call those adventures :)
Calvino Rabeni: Nice, dramatic adventures :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Sitar Ishelwood: to bring it back, adventure, has purpose
Calvino Rabeni: So how did "drama" get to be a dirty word?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Sitar Ishelwood: people started to live like the people they saw on tv?
Sitar Ishelwood: on daytime dramas?
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe "drama" got to be a dirty word, the same way the "comfort" got to be a dirty word
Calvino Rabeni: As they are now seen somewhat as opposites
Calvino Rabeni: And kind of degraded by not being organically related?
Calvino Rabeni: Just an idea

Bleu Oleander: didn't know drama or comfort were dirty words
Eliza Madrigal: :))
--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: Ah, interesting... yes full circle... but what of dropping purposes/goals/agendas... then surprises can play.. drama without draaaama ...
Benedizione Vita: idea, now there is a duuurty word
Calvino Rabeni: Ah, remember Lila and Shakti and those energetic cosmic wenches
Calvino Rabeni: Still with us I presume :)
Calvino Rabeni: Remember when playing got out of hand, as a child, and things would sometimes get broken?
Sitar Ishelwood: remember, they are here in bed with me?!?
Calvino Rabeni: Part of the play - was playing the edge
Calvino Rabeni: And perhaps going too far
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Benedizione Vita: calvino, now youve gone too far!

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Soujanya
soujanya Indigo: hope Im not interrupting a meeting htere
Sitar Ishelwood: oh, goddess, please bring some sanity!
Eliza Madrigal: We're here four times a day, Soujanya... and love visitors :)
soujanya Indigo: lol
soujanya Indigo: :)
Calvino Rabeni: We chat here, soujanya, and actually can be interrupted any time :)
soujanya Indigo: thank u eliza
soujanya Indigo: for the welcome
Sitar Ishelwood: we are discussing the purpose of drama and the comfort of struggle
Sitar Ishelwood: anything to add?
Benedizione Vita: so how did you find us, soujanya, I am curious :)
soujanya Indigo: I think I have been here
soujanya Indigo: sometime back
soujanya Indigo: and someone invited me
soujanya Indigo: I felt it was a peaceful place
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Benedizione Vita: onigokko
Calvino Rabeni: One thing to know, is that the converstation here is recorded,
Eliza Madrigal: Yes it can be....
soujanya Indigo: lol
Benedizione Vita: stop
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Benedizione Vita: hahaha sorry I couldn't resist :)
soujanya Indigo: :D
Calvino Rabeni: and put on the web site. Is it OK with all here for the chat to be published?
soujanya Indigo: yea sure
Sitar Ishelwood: yup
Bleu Oleander: k
Calvino Rabeni: OK, thanks.
TH Ordinary: ok
Calvino Rabeni: Because if necessary I can censor it :)
Eliza Madrigal: I need to turn in... quite sleepy.....
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks for dropping in Eliza
Bleu Oleander: me too
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks everyone, for a lively evening
Benedizione Vita: good to see you eliza :)
Bleu Oleander: c u
TH Ordinary: thanks for conversation
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now. Night :)
soujanya Indigo: take care people

Benedizione Vita: any reflections on the chaos, anyone?

Sitar Ishelwood: yes, this has been fun, I suppose that I will turn in as well
Sitar Ishelwood: thanks
Benedizione Vita: goodnight, sitar :)
Calvino Rabeni: Good to meet you Sitar
Benedizione Vita: sleep well
Sitar Ishelwood: till next time
Benedizione Vita: well, I s'pose I must also in turn soon
Benedizione Vita: goodnight calvino and flux
Calvino Rabeni: Good night Bene
Calvino Rabeni: benedictions upon you :)
Benedizione Vita: and upon you and yours, sir
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks
Calvino Rabeni: the more things change, the more they stay the same... or is it the other way around...
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: And that's the fifth bell... this Goldilocks is off to find new sources of porridge.
Calvino Rabeni: Good night Flux.
Flux Constantine: l8rz

And that's all they wrote ... but, dear readers, this is a wiki, and I'd like to invite anyone who has any impulse, to add comments in the text or in the comment area.