2010.01.30 19:00 - Enlightenment, Now What?

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia.

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Cal :)
Calvino Rabeni: Hello there Eliza Madrigal :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal sees SophiaSharon sign off... might be having internet issues...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Eliza! Sorry, i crashed and had to restart, was afraid to even tp in :)
Eliza Madrigal: Glad you made it!
SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Calvino
Calvino Rabeni: Greetings and salutations, SophiaSharon Larnia :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
SophiaSharon Larnia: grabbed the log, hope I dont crash again :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I hardly ever come at night anymore :) Its kind of strange
SophiaSharon Larnia: wow nice aura Eliza
Eliza Madrigal giggles... looks like a soap bubble...
Eliza Madrigal: wonder where I picked this up :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
SophiaSharon Larnia: im enlightened now
Eliza Madrigal: This is to keep us awake... rarified air
SophiaSharon Larnia: now what??
Eliza Madrigal: Where is yours, Cal? :)
Calvino Rabeni: Could be good for a "silent" retreat :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: oooh
SophiaSharon Larnia: um im super laggy
Eliza Madrigal: :(
SophiaSharon Larnia: ill stay very very still
Eliza Madrigal: yes, try not to say anything too profound....
SophiaSharon Larnia: gasps
Eliza Madrigal: or *pop*
SophiaSharon Larnia: that would be cool!
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eliza Madrigal: I read your ink session from earlier...
Calvino Rabeni: From today?
Eliza Madrigal: I think so...
Eliza Madrigal: a few really nice poems :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: its hard to think of a name for the logs
SophiaSharon Larnia: whats your take on the ideas in it Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes... tonight's might already have one... "Enlightened, Now What"
SophiaSharon Larnia: hahah
Eliza Madrigal: :))))
Calvino Rabeni: That is a good one, I like it
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, isnt that one stream of thought, to act that you already are
SophiaSharon Larnia: and realization will follow, eventually :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: at the least, its a nice way to be

Eliza Madrigal: yes, it is... hmm... it might be the case that wanting to be awake/aware is enlightenment in itself...
SophiaSharon Larnia: the energy thought
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal wonders if the rarified air is quieting our thoughts too much...
Calvino Rabeni: Have you heard the theories about abundance and community?>
SophiaSharon Larnia: vs scarcity?
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, not sure
Calvino Rabeni: Abundance is created when people choose to join in community, and create a "gift" economy, and give away the thing that they used to fear was scarce.
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, vs. scarcity
Eliza Madrigal: Gift economy, how interesting
SophiaSharon Larnia: I am familiar with it in the most basic way
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, vs. hoarding and fear of not having enough
SophiaSharon Larnia: like 20 pairs of shoes
Calvino Rabeni: Or spiritual qualities like goodwill, admiration, attention, love...
Eliza Madrigal: That's the basis for tonglen I think... which we seem to talk about a lot in PaB latelyy...
Calvino Rabeni: And the wisdom traditions always say - to give it away creates abundance
Eliza Madrigal: that taking on others' suffering is an 'act' which expands one's capacity to be generous...
Calvino Rabeni: Airy-fairy, do you think?
Eliza Madrigal: Nope :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: not at all
Calvino Rabeni: It takes a little courage, because as noted,it works at a community level so it feels hard to start it all alone
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps then the same thing works with "enlightenment"
Calvino Rabeni: This makes sense to me :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) I think it does
SophiaSharon Larnia: put that way it is a similiar energetic exchange
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Calvino Rabeni: And the possibility is it works even within oneself
SophiaSharon Larnia: much curage, resting on trust
SophiaSharon Larnia: courage*
Calvino Rabeni: Trust and abundance are a virtuous circle
Calvino Rabeni: The opposite of the vicious variety
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
Calvino Rabeni: Upward spiral
Calvino Rabeni: Hello !
Bleu Oleander: hi!
Eliza Madrigal: That's beautiful imagery, Calvino!
SophiaSharon Larnia imagines what it would take to move energy the other way
Calvino Rabeni: I have an idea / experience about that
Calvino Rabeni: People have good days / bad days
Calvino Rabeni: some days one might even feel a little "enlightened"
Calvino Rabeni: but at first I had a "hoarding" mentality
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: As in, I wanted it, I didn't want anything to come along to spoil it or "take it from me"
Eliza Madrigal nods...
Calvino Rabeni: I made a choice to try to reverse that dynamic
Calvino Rabeni: so if I had it, I tried either (1) to give it away, or (2) to apply it to lighten something that was difficult for me

Calvino Rabeni: And of course, the "glow" was diminished
SophiaSharon Larnia: question, would there be an inertia of energy at the turning
Calvino Rabeni: ...but the energy invested instead, and began to grow instead
Calvino Rabeni: there does seem to be inertia :)
Eliza Madrigal: The energy seems to change...
Eliza Madrigal: It seems most people don't like to talk about the process, etc. but I've recently been wondering why not...
SophiaSharon Larnia: sometimes saying it makes it so
Calvino Rabeni: It seems to take a little "free energy" to be able to be aware enough to change directions
Eliza Madrigal: The glow, for instance... Id say my whole spiritual life consists of moving with that, to a certain extent...
Calvino Rabeni: Various reasons I suppose, to not talk about it :)
Eliza Madrigal: and it gives itself away...
Calvino Rabeni: Giving the glow away rather than being attached to it, helps one not get into spiritual materialism or "bypassing"
Calvino Rabeni: What are the reasons do you suppose to not want to talk about it?
SophiaSharon Larnia: you said it earlier :) the dreaded phrase
SophiaSharon Larnia: at least, for some
Calvino Rabeni: the soul can be a shy thing, doesn't want to be dragged out into the light - that's one reason
Bleu Oleander: what is the "dreaded phrase"?
Calvino Rabeni: Another is, to speak it - like we were saying in the other session, is an invocation
SophiaSharon Larnia: airy-fairy
SophiaSharon Larnia: being judged
Calvino Rabeni: A kind of promise to self or to others
Calvino Rabeni: And one fears being held to that, because of course, things come and go unpredictably in that area
Calvino Rabeni: Identity management. :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Eliza Madrigal: there can be a kind of false humility to things too...
Eliza Madrigal: meaning, it isn't an accomplishment in any sense of the word....
Calvino Rabeni: Or on the other hand, there is "positive shadow"
SophiaSharon Larnia: youre right, it feel like it should be a natural state of being
Calvino Rabeni: People don't want to show how good they really are
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe that's a kind of "hoarding", I don't know ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: and when its not, if Im angry and aggravated, i can point to others who are the same
Calvino Rabeni: There is an agreement between people, to be modest
Calvino Rabeni: And in a way, we know, with power comes responsibility
Calvino Rabeni: To show power, is to commit to its right use
Eliza Madrigal: well, it seems more exposing and vulnerable to talk about these things in personal terms...
Calvino Rabeni: in the eyes of others and oneself
Calvino Rabeni: Yes it does :)
Eliza Madrigal: and maybe that is a kind of danger, that there is a power perception...
SophiaSharon Larnia: to some, Calvino, I think some people don't think of it that way, or would say they are custodians
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, they have been anointed somehow
Calvino Rabeni: Or initiated
Calvino Rabeni: Like doctors, priests, politicians all wield power
Calvino Rabeni: And have been delegated power by other in addition to having training
SophiaSharon Larnia: a culture of scarcity is based on that dynamic
Calvino Rabeni: Well, there are differences in the power people have, depending on their capacities and faith in what they do

Calvino Rabeni: It would be nice if evveryone felt to be custodian of their own power or "Tao"
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, not sure about the power terms ... equanimity and love/light that gives itself away is I guess a kind of power, but hm...
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, in those terms I think I understand better :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: that isn't taught now, I don't think
Eliza Madrigal: It isn't a power anyone 'has'....
Calvino Rabeni: As in "Eliza Power"
Calvino Rabeni: Yes it isn't taught much
Calvino Rabeni: I think it has to be a deep and active thing
Calvino Rabeni: it's more than just "self esteem"
SophiaSharon Larnia: or evn through play as children
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, play is about that power
Calvino Rabeni: experiments
Bleu Oleander: (slips out quietly, nite all)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Blue :)
Calvino Rabeni: Good night, Bleu :)
Calvino Rabeni: (or morning there?)
SophiaSharon Larnia: once again, seeing this and then comparing it to the real world
Eliza Madrigal: all kinds of biblical lessons come to mind... about loaves and fishes, and bringing forth what is within you, and hiding talents....
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, codes :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: then there is for instance the I Ching, which is about all the many ways power works in different situations
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm
Calvino Rabeni: The biblical lessons are a nice perspective
Calvino Rabeni: those metaphors of abundance
SophiaSharon Larnia: stealing that :)
Calvino Rabeni: then over in Ecclesiastes there are the "taoist" metaphors where things have their seasons and purposes under heaven
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eliza Madrigal nods
Calvino Rabeni: And I think one of the unspoken lessons is to be a keen observer of those rhythms
Calvino Rabeni: and to develop "situation appropriate" discrimination
Calvino Rabeni: by reading the book of nature and the book of "other people's lives"
SophiaSharon Larnia: im not sure what you mean there :)
Calvino Rabeni: That we don't learn life through the logic of reasoning things out from principles, exclusively
Calvino Rabeni: but by watching how things work
Calvino Rabeni: like the way the seasons of the year are full of lessons about scarcity, abundance, and strategies for surviving and thriving
Calvino Rabeni: etc.
SophiaSharon Larnia: where does intuition fit in this?
SophiaSharon Larnia: didnt mean to whisper :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: How do you "whisper" or "shout"?
SophiaSharon Larnia: umm it was a keyboard accident, not sure
SophiaSharon Larnia: was it this?
Eliza Madrigal: Not to be overly Beautiful Mind-ed... but seems part of intuition is code reading....
SophiaSharon Larnia: joining patterns
Eliza Madrigal: like, we were talking about serendipity in another session....
Eliza Madrigal: and I liked this wiki quote:
Eliza Madrigal: Most authors who have studied scientific serendipity both in a historical, as well as in an epistemological point of view, agree that a prepared and open mind is required on the part of the scientist or inventor to detect the importance of information revealed accidentally.
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Calvino Rabeni: Intuition might be defined as - "the thinking I do that I don't catch myself at"
Eliza Madrigal: a kind of thinking in the dark...
SophiaSharon Larnia: grudgingly admits thats probably right, Calvino :)
Eliza Madrigal: or at least one kind of intuition seems to fit that
Calvino Rabeni: Some people call it "spirit guidance" or whatever
Eliza Madrigal: might be thinking from a larger perspective one hasn't 'grown into' yet
SophiaSharon Larnia: sub conscious awareness
Calvino Rabeni: Yes to both of those

<stealing>Eliza Madrigal: we're very practical tonight :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
SophiaSharon Larnia: i try to be prgmatic, even if the conclusions are not what some people would agree with
Calvino Rabeni: "A prepared and open mind" - and one that is willing not to claim authorship of every last piece
Calvino Rabeni: I go along with that, SSL also
Eliza Madrigal nods
Calvino Rabeni: Eliza, you meant the John Nash story, earlier?
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: and probably illustrates well why people don't talk about things, too
SophiaSharon Larnia: true
Calvino Rabeni: I can think of lots of reasons - but, when you do, does one of them appear to rise to the top ?
Eliza Madrigal: I disagree with myself on this issue obviously... haha
Calvino Rabeni: Flexible thinker :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: in my case yes,
SophiaSharon Larnia: you?
Eliza Madrigal: I'm simply not articulate enough to do justice...
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I have 2 things in mind that are specific. But I'm not going to name them, given their sensitivity
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Calvino Rabeni: Although it helps my thinking process to have named them internally
Eliza Madrigal: bIts enough perhaps to sit with friends and acknowledge/appreciate
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: ITS
SophiaSharon Larnia: my thinking process have almost come to a stop, I must sleep :)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, and "secret journals" have their place :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes they do :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: even if they are dusty
Eliza Madrigal: yes...want to sign on to hear from Wol in the morning...
Calvino Rabeni: And scary to read later :)
Eliza Madrigal: haha
SophiaSharon Larnia: sometimes!
Eliza Madrigal is of the editing way down variety....
Eliza Madrigal: throw everything out there, then whittle away....
Eliza Madrigal: however, in chat logs, not so easy ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: good nightEliza and Calvino !
Calvino Rabeni: Right, I should go too - good talking with you Eliza and SSL
Eliza Madrigal: Night guys :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now
Calvino Rabeni: I'll try to make 7am, no promises
Calvino Rabeni: bye for now
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Eliza Madrigal waves