2010.02.08 07:00 - Icy Fingers, and Fear as Material

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, who was joined by Sharon, Zen, and Yakuzza.

    Sometimes in PlayasBeing, there seem questions determined to work themselves out. They keep coming up to the surface, making a little progress, then going back underground for a while again. Later they pop up unexpectedly within completely different contexts and groups of players.

    This session started off with simple mentions of weather... 

    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: good morning :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been following the weather a bit where you are... intense for you?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, a bit, I just made it home this morning for the first time in 3 days
    Eliza Madrigal: wow, yes that's what I wondered. I know you have to get to work, even in drastic conditions
    SophiaSharon Larnia: am very happy to be home, and am a bit tired, would like to just sit for a while :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: funny how you miss sl, and coming here :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes that's true... it becomes part of the day like having a glass of water...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha yes
    Eliza Madrigal: and sometimes one feels 'hm, something's off... feel dry..." and good to be able to get to refreshment

    This is true. Picture a nearly 40 year old woman on the floor of her child's bedroom with the laptop... sigh... :)


    Eliza Madrigal: Yesterday I felt like a child... a relative was visiting and going on and on about politics....
    Eliza Madrigal: so I snuck upstairs and signed onto SL with my son's computer
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hahah
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I looked at myself, thought, "wow... so this is evolving eh?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I stayed at my mom's one day and wanted to download sl on her computer
    Eliza Madrigal: I can see how those with iphones and gadgets are excited to be able to work with them in SL

    Sharon paints a beautiful picture of a moment...


    SophiaSharon Larnia: this weekend did give a lot of opportunities to enjoy being in the moment
    Eliza Madrigal: It did?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    SophiaSharon Larnia: as the icy fingers spread across the windows
    Eliza Madrigal imagines

    Zen arrives and we discuss the ways of knowing workshop a bit, specifically 'lojong' teachings which could have resonance across many traditions ...


    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Eliza
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Zen
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal giggles that you are wearing your "i love homework" tag
    Zen Arado: Hi Sharon:)
    SophiaSharon Larnia looks :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, which reminds me that I should be wearing a tag too.....
    Zen Arado: it isn't true :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: no? hahah
    Eliza Madrigal: The homework we've been pulling together for the WoK workshop seems to weave itself into everything
    Zen Arado: though I was doing some homework just now
    Eliza Madrigal: yes?
    Zen Arado: on one of the slogans
    Zen Arado: I read a lot about these lojong slogans last year
    Eliza Madrigal: So you are familiar with them, but had you worked with them actively?
    Zen Arado: they are very practical
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, and also impossible
    Zen Arado: maybe not actively enough
    Zen Arado: very useful when you know the theory but have to work with old habit patterns

    Working directly with the material of life...


    Eliza Madrigal: Is there a personal example you might share?
    Zen Arado: I am slowing down my reading atm
    Zen Arado: ha I was just looking for one about turning adveristies into the path
    --BELL--
    Eliza Madrigal: Sharon, btw are you familiar with lojong slogans? Some of them are so funny... Like "Don't worry, there is nothing real about your confusion."
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm reading them now, no I'm not familiar with them :)
    Zen Arado: Pema Chodron has a good book on them
    Zen Arado: 'Start Where you Are' I think?
    Eliza Madrigal: You know, I began working with the idea you mention here at PaB really, Zen. I'd had ideas of 'long-suffering', but had not really *practiced* non-discrimination before, not directly
    Zen Arado: but I am trying to think for myself a bit more
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes there is a big difference between learning about something, and doing it....
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe doing it we learn it too...
    Zen Arado: non -discrimination?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... everything as path.... good/bad/indifferent/spectacular

    Yakuzza arrives...


    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ya :))
    Zen Arado: Hi Yaku
    Eliza Madrigal laughs thinking about Ya taking out the lemming guns at the guardian meeting...
    Zen Arado: was thinking about 'problems'
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: How so Zen?
    Zen Arado: Are problems just illusions as Eckhart Tolle says? 'It is impossible to have problems in the Now - they are just situations to be dealt with as they come up'. What is a 'problem' anyway? A situation that requires attention when it happens - the rest is how our minds magnify and get an identity out of the situation. 'This shouldn't be happening to me' kind of thoughts that drain us of the energy we need to deal with the situation. Or dwelling on situations from the past or worries about situations that may arise in the future instead of restricting ourselves to what is happening Now, where our actions are only truly effective.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Zen Arado: 'problem is just a name we give to a situation isn't it?
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes!

    This line provides a bit of a turn for the rest of the session, once we touch on the weather a little bit more ...


    Zen Arado: but try telling someone their problems are just illusions :)
    Eliza Madrigal: and along with whatever problem is going on, other things are happening too... there is a larger context... icicles on the windows for instance, as Sharon mentioned earlier :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: just seeing and enjoying what is going on in front of you is enough, sometimes
    Eliza Madrigal nods... yes the energy isnt going to come from somewhere else or some other time...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but I do have to say, I'm a bit more tired that I thought, and going to go :))
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay Sharon, Rest well :) You deserve it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: byeall
    Yakuzza Lethecus: night ssl
    Zen Arado: have a good rest Sharon
    SophiaSharon Larnia: all *
    Eliza Madrigal: (she was not able to return home from work for 3 days amidst storms)
    Zen Arado: oh dear
    Yakuzza Lethecus: florida didn't have had any snow this winter ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or did you
    Zen Arado: it really snows in the us
    Eliza Madrigal: We had frost and flurries actually Ya!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, nice :)
    Zen Arado: in Florida?
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, actually economically it is quite a disaster....
    Zen Arado: ah yes the oranges
    Eliza Madrigal: but you should have seen all the facebook pages with everyone scraping frost and dancing around
    Zen Arado: frost destroys them
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, and not only oranges but sea life and other things...
    Eliza Madrigal: much of our wildlife is not able to handle it
    Eliza Madrigal: So we have to 'trust' the larger cycles I guess....
    Zen Arado: hard to imagine frost in Florida
    Zen Arado: I was there twice and it was so hot!

    Eliza Madrigal: You know, thinking about problems as illusions... I suppose that would be a terrible thing to say to someone when they are feeling vulnerable and very knocked around by the 'illusions'...
    Zen Arado: exactly
    Eliza Madrigal: (Oh, and yes... too hot. It may be why I enjoy rain)
    --BELL--

    Zen Arado: I have a friend who has another friend who just lost a baby
    Zen Arado: a male friend said something like'we all have to go sometime'
    Eliza Madrigal: =/
    Zen Arado: totally tactless and she was very upset
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, well that seems just careless...
    Eliza Madrigal: Without love its all meaningless... all these teachings, etc
    Zen Arado: yes exactly
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how those thoughts must have changed gladly, i heard something about ireland in the 18th century where nearly no child survived when it was raised by the ,,government"
    Zen Arado: even if you feel no compassion you should at least be aware that what you say in these situation could hurt others
    Yakuzza Lethecus: right
    Zen Arado: in previous child mortality was very high
    Zen Arado: centuries
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, you mean the sensitivity level Ya? There certainly are contexts of time and place where people expected certain losses more easily, yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Which doesn't mean that they didn't need one another
    Eliza Madrigal: just to be 'with' the loss, so to speak
    Yakuzza Lethecus: It's good that today we can say that such things are tragic
    Yakuzza Lethecus: tragic, and that usually we all will be very patient
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Zen Arado: but I am sure the loss of each child was still devastating to the parents
    Yakuzza Lethecus: 2 years ago a mother of 4 children died while she got her 5th in a neighbour village

    Zen Arado: so how do you apply that slogan about making the best of adversity here?

    Eliza Madrigal: yes, and often the way to deal with that kind of confusion was to accept it in a passive way... one reads much about 'god taking', etc...
    Zen Arado: one way was to have large families - to keep having children
    Zen Arado: even though some of them died

    Eliza Madrigal: hmm..not quite on pointe, but near topic... When my children have terrifying dreams, though we know we are discussing dreams, we give attention to what emotions and fears the dreams may have stirred.... see what they show us... if we can unwravel them
    Eliza Madrigal: and we lean on one another. Sometimes it is enough to show and tell...
    Eliza Madrigal: witness
    Zen Arado: points to worries in life?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes exactly...
    Eliza Madrigal: what may have been supressed during all the hurrying and keeping up with things especially

    Fear...

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i have to think about storm, who claims not to have fears in live :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes dreams are deep mythologies, too...
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Ya... Yes I appreciate Storm's boldness to say some things....
    Eliza Madrigal: but really, thinking.... if fear is 'open'... or if everything is 'exposed' then it isn't quite fear .. or maybe doesn't have the power to hinder?
    Zen Arado: I tend to think fear is there at bottom - it is how we deal with it.....
    Zen Arado: fear of death is foundation
    Eliza Madrigal: "Perfect love casts out fear" "Love is stronger than death"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i have the ability to block byself through fear and worries, and i worrie even bye far about too many things i can't change or that are just a potentiality right now
    Zen Arado: yes Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: yes me too sometimes yakuzza
    --BELL--
    Zen Arado: me too
    Eliza Madrigal: think that is expected... to have those places. I try to let them be just 'among' all the other things though.... among the strong sense of amazement, for instance, that at very small, trapped places in life, somehow light gets through.... seeping under the door, etc. :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so watching news about a possible collaps of the financial marked lets me think about jobloss :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: even when it's totally irrational
    Eliza Madrigal wouldn't be in PaB if not for job loss ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i even get stuck in something like that

    Zen Arado: but if you start to notice irrational fears you are halfway to dealing with them I think

    Here there is some creative editing, as Yakuzza asks a question that was personal, but to me non-intrusive, and I share a little about my behind-the-scenes avatar's life. Actually, it opens another important and interesting topic ... 

    Yakuzza Lethecus: ***  ?
    Eliza Madrigal: I think I mentioned a useful exercize here once... of writing down 'failures' or 'problems' and then seeing if any good came from them....
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ***
    Eliza Madrigal: That's complicated Ya :)
    Eliza Madrigal: (remembers to edit the log) hehe....
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: ...
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Eliza Madrigal: guess its a little conspicuous
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe :)
    Eliza Madrigal:

     

    (About fifteen lines taken from here)

    Eliza Madrigal: Its difficult not to talk about some of these things directly at pab sometimes....
    Eliza Madrigal: but I feel that the log is public and having kids it is important to be discreet
    Zen Arado: sometimes there are things you want everyone to read about.....
    Eliza Madrigal: so sometimes people think my life is *all* bliss... that that is all I work with :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: right, sometimes i even think about the issue that it would even be easier if everyone could read ,,after a free registration"
    Eliza Madrigal: Life is chaos :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, interesting idea Ya
    Zen Arado: sure is
    Eliza Madrigal: I think this is why the inworld retreats might be a good idea
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe even with themes

    Eliza Madrigal: non-recorded, but allowing us to talk more directly...
    Zen Arado: I think I revealed too much about myself to some in SL lately
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, that can be funny... and wouldn't want to stir up gossip, etc... though I think that Pab, while not immune, may have tools some communities don't have....
    Zen Arado: not you two!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it's funny when i mix things up
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i thought lia would travel to japan but she's jsut travelling
    Yakuzza Lethecus: pema is travelling to japan soon
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah, yes
    Zen Arado: yes there should be unrecorded talks for some themes
    Yakuzza Lethecus: isn't this the only recorded ?
    Zen Arado: there could be more depth
    Yakuzza Lethecus: pema mentioned that it would be harder to find us when we would place a registration before the logs
    Eliza Madrigal: I think using the pub is a good idea....
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i can't make the pub habitual
    Eliza Madrigal: like there was a day when the session spilled into the pub and we let down our hair a bit....
    Yakuzza Lethecus: 7 am 1 pm is already enough
    Zen Arado: if a more personal theme were decided we could make it unrecorded I am sure?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes Zen, I think so.... just a matter of doing it! There was the bookchat Eos and I organized...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: theoratically we can edit the log
    Eliza Madrigal: it was just an hr but we began to dig more deeply
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, true Ya... though like today's it will be choppy
    Zen Arado: ot just not publish the log
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, always an option
    Eliza Madrigal: What may be difficult is that everyone has different boundaries for what they are comfortable sharing
    Zen Arado: or no one grab the log
    Eliza Madrigal: >gasp< anathema!
    --BELL--
    Zen Arado: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Yakuzza Lethecus: i meant that on most forums you have the opportunity to register for free first before you can see the real sections [2010/02/06 10:47] Pema Pera: ah, but then google will not pick up the text -- so that will make it much more difficult for other people, outside PaB, to find PaB -- they can now find it through google
    Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh, true

    A wide scope...


    Eliza Madrigal: He's right about that... and you know, I DO consider people that haven't arrived yet, when I'm editing logs, etc.... the people who haven't stumbled into pab or practice of any sort....
    Eliza Madrigal: I sort of include them
    Eliza Madrigal: In the same way I feel like I've been on all the retreats.. hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe that's why I don't feel too left out
    Zen Arado: yes nods
    Zen Arado: anyway better go
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay Zen, thanks for coming
    Zen Arado: np
    Zen Arado: thank you!
    Eliza Madrigal: I thought today might be a silent session, but good topics!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, take care eliza
    Zen Arado: bye
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Yakuzza :) See you later perhaps
    Eliza Madrigal: its going to be tricky to edit this log... hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: C you later Ya :)

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