2010.02.10 01:00 - 'What are we trying to do again?'

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Bolonath Crystal. The comments are by Bolonath Crystal.
    Our new visitor Lawrence and me talking about some basic aspects of PaB-practice, time and awareness

       Bolonath Crystal: hi lawrence
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Bolonath.
        Bolonath Crystal: lawrence, did we meet before? is this your first time here?
        Lawrence Vyceratops: This is my first time here.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: We have not met.
        Bolonath Crystal: welcome :)
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Thank you :)
        Bolonath Crystal: i have to inform you, that our talks are recorded and published. is this ok with you?
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, that's fine.
        Bolonath Crystal: great
       Bolonath Crystal: how did you find us, if i may ask?
        Lawrence Vyceratops: I was searching for things to do in Second Life.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: This sounded interesting. I think I came across a webpage.
        Bolonath Crystal: ah, i c
        Bolonath Crystal: the sessions at this time are rather quiet usually. nice to see you here :)
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Nice to be here. Thanks :)
        Bolonath Crystal: are you interested in spirituality? what caught your attention?
        Lawrence Vyceratops: I don't remember exactly. I still haven't gotten the gist of this meeting.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: I'm not sure what you mean by spirituality.
        Bolonath Crystal: we explore the nature of being
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Obviously, time has something to do with it. ;)
        Bolonath Crystal: every 15 minutes you will hear a gong. then we stop in whatever we do and try to concentrate on our awareness for 90 seconds, before we continue
        Bolonath Crystal: this is a very special method of "play as being"
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Shall we explore awareness for a moment?
        Bolonath Crystal: in real life these breaks last 9 seconds only
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Ok.
        Bolonath Crystal: yes, we can explore that any time :)
        Lawrence Vyceratops: That way, I can figure out what exactly we are supposed to do for 9 seconds.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: So, what do we mean by awareness?
        Bolonath Crystal: well, often we are caught in our thinking and feeling. while we stop, we try to stop this entanglement and look at life and the world without attachment
        Bolonath Crystal: like a micro-meditation :)
        Bolonath Crystal: the idea is, that a greater number of short practice might be more effective than a long meditation once a day
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Effective for what?
        Bolonath Crystal: to find out, what 'really' happens and what is just mind-borne
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Oh, I see.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: You mean, human mind-borne?
        Bolonath Crystal: the longer i practice, the more i am convinced, that everything happens in our mind only. but the experiences of our members are quite different
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Or all mind-borne?
        Bolonath Crystal: yes, well, a human mind is all i got at the moment
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Oh, I see what you mean... I think.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Let me think...
        Lawrence Vyceratops: I think my understanding depends on what we mean by mind...
        Bolonath Crystal: sure. nice thing to play with ;)
        Lawrence Vyceratops: So, is our mind supposed to try and find out what happens or what is mind-borne?
        Bolonath Crystal: a good question. is our mind supposed to do anything at all? or is this also simply a mind-borne thing?
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, if we mean that us, this mind-body-thing... if we mean THAT mind, then everything is mind-borne, because this mind-body-thing is the experience.
        Bolonath Crystal: if mind is part of the experience, who then has the experience?
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, I didn't say it was part... I'm saying that, perhaps, this mind-body-thing is the experience, as well what is being experienced.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: ...by the mind-body-thingy...
        Lawrence Vyceratops: We can't be a tree, but we can see it.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: That is in our mind.
        Bolonath Crystal: in buddhism there is a competition between two philosophies. one says "all is mind". the other one says "all is emptyness". we weren't able to solve this question so far
        Lawrence Vyceratops: no one said mind is emptiness??
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Haha that's kinda funny...
        Bolonath Crystal: if everything is emptyness, then also mind is emptyness
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Obviously.
        Bolonath Crystal: personally, as an advaita vedantin, i prefer the "all is emptyness"-section
        Bolonath Crystal: but i try to be open in this issue
        Lawrence Vyceratops: That was a nice ride...
        Bolonath Crystal: :)
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Do you guys ever talk about the 90 seconds of silence?
        Bolonath Crystal: yes
        Bolonath Crystal: we exchange experiences, as far as possible
        Bolonath Crystal: but many of us often find it difficult to speak about the experience of silence
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Sure, but we can still look at it.
        Bolonath Crystal: yes :)
        Bolonath Crystal: otherwise these sessions would be rather useless ;)
        Lawrence Vyceratops: It's nothing more than the feeling of rolling backward, when you come to a stop in your car.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Like looking at a spot on a piece of paper and looking, to see a dot on the wall.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: You know what I mean?
        Bolonath Crystal: still pondering...
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Have you ever been to a loud concert or drumming circle?
        Bolonath Crystal: yes
        Lawrence Vyceratops: The feeling you get afterward... same thing.
        Bolonath Crystal: hm... let me guess... you experience silence as the absence of noise or sound?
        Lawrence Vyceratops: I never experience true silence, by our common definition of the term.
        Bolonath Crystal: for me silence is something behind noise. it is there even in a loud concert. it is the screen that carries sound rather than the absence of it
        Lawrence Vyceratops: You mean time?
        Bolonath Crystal: hm, that's not what i had in mind - but i see the point. time is necessary to experience sound (or anything)
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Which takes us back to mind and emptiness.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Time and timelessness.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Noise and silence.
        Bolonath Crystal nods
        Bolonath Crystal: time might be a mind-borne thing, too :) in this case it is an experience as well as a condition for experience
        Bolonath Crystal: does time xist, if nothing happens?
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Well.. mind perceives time...
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Is mind separate from time?
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Also, mind perceives something happening, which is time....
        Bolonath Crystal: imo mind doesn't really perceive time. it creates time. so it is separate and not separate from it
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Right. It creates time in thought, you mean?
        Bolonath Crystal: yes, exactly
        Lawrence Vyceratops: And then, there is the phenomenon of "awareness," due to...
        Lawrence Vyceratops: ...there is an awareness, due to the thought process.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: This awareness seems to be more like a phenomenon than an ego.
        Bolonath Crystal: i don't think that thoughts (or even an ego) are necessary for awareness
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Oh, we have to go over awareness again...
        Bolonath Crystal: e.g. plants are aware of light, without (as i suppose) much thinking
        Lawrence Vyceratops: But there is still thinking.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: We couldnt sit up, if there was no brain activituy.
        Bolonath Crystal: awareness might be rather a (or any) form of interaction
        Lawrence Vyceratops: I see awareness as recognition.
        Bolonath Crystal: o i c
        Bolonath Crystal: i see it slightly different
        Lawrence Vyceratops: How so?
        Bolonath Crystal: with awareness we realize something. recognition means to give this "something" a name
        Bolonath Crystal: so recognition is a think-process
        Bolonath Crystal: awareness isn't
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Wait, I'm not clear on the difference...
        Lawrence Vyceratops: What do you mean by "realizing something?"
        Bolonath Crystal: difficult question, lol. i never thought about that
        Bolonath Crystal: realizing means, that the "something" i realize has some effect on me
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Emotional or psychological effect?
        Bolonath Crystal: any effect
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Like touching a hot stove?
        Bolonath Crystal: yes, for example
        Lawrence Vyceratops: How is that different from recognition?
        Bolonath Crystal: or let's say.... there are two electrones. both are carrying a negatice charge, so they repell each other. both electrones are aware of each other, but i don't think they recognize each other
        Lawrence Vyceratops: So, are we trying to see that awareness?
        Lawrence Vyceratops: What are we trying to do again?
        Bolonath Crystal: practice openness. we don't try to see something special. we try to see what happens, if we drop our mind-processes
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Oh, right...
        Bolonath Crystal: if we have certain expectations, we might be misled
        Lawrence Vyceratops: I don't know if that's awareness...
        Lawrence Vyceratops: We can't really "drop" our mind-processes...
        Lawrence Vyceratops: We can just minimize them.
        Bolonath Crystal: well, that's an approach :)
        Lawrence Vyceratops: But, then, that's still not really awareness.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: To me...
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Religions seem to try to "balance" a perceived "imbalance."
        Lawrence Vyceratops: It seems that we come up with moral systems to create a sense of "good."
        Lawrence Vyceratops: And we label the woes of the world as "bad."
        Lawrence Vyceratops: We make a bunch of excuses,w hen the truth is,
        Lawrence Vyceratops: we just need to stop fighting. And start taking care of each other.
        Bolonath Crystal: i agree so far. but the "play as being"-project isn't religious at all. there is a difference between religion and spirituality
        Bolonath Crystal: in this group there are many religions involved :)
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Right.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: I'm still not clear on the spirituality thing, either...
        Lawrence Vyceratops: I see time as being the closest thing to spiritual.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Of course, we're getting back into mind again...
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Sorry about the outburst. It just seems to be the whole point of exploring our religious/moral/spiritual side-thingy...
        Bolonath Crystal: i love outburts :)
        Bolonath Crystal: +s
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Great.
        Lawrence Vyceratops: :)
        Lawrence Vyceratops: There must be a common ground for people to walk on.
    Bolonath Crystal: i am very sorry, but i have to go back to work...
        Lawrence Vyceratops: I have to go to bed!
        Bolonath Crystal: i hope we can continue our talk next time
        Bolonath Crystal: to bed? may i ask where you come from?
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Mississippi. You?
        Bolonath Crystal: oh, i am only half a world away :) germany
        Bolonath Crystal: 11am here
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Ah! Two out of the first four people I met in SL from Germany!
        Lawrence Vyceratops: 2am here.
        Bolonath Crystal smiles
        Bolonath Crystal: thank you very much, lawrence, for sharing your thoughts with me
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Thank you!
        Bolonath Crystal: hope to see you soon :)
        Bolonath Crystal: but for now i have to go
        Lawrence Vyceratops: Same! :) Good day!
        Bolonath Crystal: om shanti :)

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