2010.02.10 01:00 - 'What are we trying to do again?'

The Guardian for this meeting was Bolonath Crystal. The comments are by Bolonath Crystal.
Our new visitor Lawrence and me talking about some basic aspects of PaB-practice, time and awareness

   Bolonath Crystal: hi lawrence
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Bolonath.
    Bolonath Crystal: lawrence, did we meet before? is this your first time here?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: This is my first time here.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: We have not met.
    Bolonath Crystal: welcome :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Thank you :)
    Bolonath Crystal: i have to inform you, that our talks are recorded and published. is this ok with you?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, that's fine.
    Bolonath Crystal: great
   Bolonath Crystal: how did you find us, if i may ask?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I was searching for things to do in Second Life.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: This sounded interesting. I think I came across a webpage.
    Bolonath Crystal: ah, i c
    Bolonath Crystal: the sessions at this time are rather quiet usually. nice to see you here :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Nice to be here. Thanks :)
    Bolonath Crystal: are you interested in spirituality? what caught your attention?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I don't remember exactly. I still haven't gotten the gist of this meeting.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I'm not sure what you mean by spirituality.
    Bolonath Crystal: we explore the nature of being
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Obviously, time has something to do with it. ;)
    Bolonath Crystal: every 15 minutes you will hear a gong. then we stop in whatever we do and try to concentrate on our awareness for 90 seconds, before we continue
    Bolonath Crystal: this is a very special method of "play as being"
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Shall we explore awareness for a moment?
    Bolonath Crystal: in real life these breaks last 9 seconds only
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Ok.
    Bolonath Crystal: yes, we can explore that any time :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: That way, I can figure out what exactly we are supposed to do for 9 seconds.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: So, what do we mean by awareness?
    Bolonath Crystal: well, often we are caught in our thinking and feeling. while we stop, we try to stop this entanglement and look at life and the world without attachment
    Bolonath Crystal: like a micro-meditation :)
    --BELL--
    Bolonath Crystal: the idea is, that a greater number of short practice might be more effective than a long meditation once a day
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Effective for what?
    Bolonath Crystal: to find out, what 'really' happens and what is just mind-borne
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Oh, I see.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: You mean, human mind-borne?
    Bolonath Crystal: the longer i practice, the more i am convinced, that everything happens in our mind only. but the experiences of our members are quite different
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Or all mind-borne?
    Bolonath Crystal: yes, well, a human mind is all i got at the moment
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Oh, I see what you mean... I think.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Let me think...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I think my understanding depends on what we mean by mind...
    Bolonath Crystal: sure. nice thing to play with ;)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: So, is our mind supposed to try and find out what happens or what is mind-borne?
    Bolonath Crystal: a good question. is our mind supposed to do anything at all? or is this also simply a mind-borne thing?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, if we mean that us, this mind-body-thing... if we mean THAT mind, then everything is mind-borne, because this mind-body-thing is the experience.
    Bolonath Crystal: if mind is part of the experience, who then has the experience?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Well, I didn't say it was part... I'm saying that, perhaps, this mind-body-thing is the experience, as well what is being experienced.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: ...by the mind-body-thingy...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: We can't be a tree, but we can see it.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: That is in our mind.
    Bolonath Crystal: in buddhism there is a competition between two philosophies. one says "all is mind". the other one says "all is emptyness". we weren't able to solve this question so far
    Lawrence Vyceratops: no one said mind is emptiness??
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Haha that's kinda funny...
    Bolonath Crystal: if everything is emptyness, then also mind is emptyness
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Obviously.
    Bolonath Crystal: personally, as an advaita vedantin, i prefer the "all is emptyness"-section
    Bolonath Crystal: but i try to be open in this issue
    --BELL--
    Lawrence Vyceratops: That was a nice ride...
    Bolonath Crystal: :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Do you guys ever talk about the 90 seconds of silence?
    Bolonath Crystal: yes
    Bolonath Crystal: we exchange experiences, as far as possible
    Bolonath Crystal: but many of us often find it difficult to speak about the experience of silence
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Sure, but we can still look at it.
    Bolonath Crystal: yes :)
    Bolonath Crystal: otherwise these sessions would be rather useless ;)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: It's nothing more than the feeling of rolling backward, when you come to a stop in your car.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Like looking at a spot on a piece of paper and looking, to see a dot on the wall.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: You know what I mean?
    Bolonath Crystal: still pondering...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Have you ever been to a loud concert or drumming circle?
    Bolonath Crystal: yes
    Lawrence Vyceratops: The feeling you get afterward... same thing.
    Bolonath Crystal: hm... let me guess... you experience silence as the absence of noise or sound?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I never experience true silence, by our common definition of the term.
    Bolonath Crystal: for me silence is something behind noise. it is there even in a loud concert. it is the screen that carries sound rather than the absence of it
    Lawrence Vyceratops: You mean time?
    Bolonath Crystal: hm, that's not what i had in mind - but i see the point. time is necessary to experience sound (or anything)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Which takes us back to mind and emptiness.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Time and timelessness.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Noise and silence.
    Bolonath Crystal nods
    Bolonath Crystal: time might be a mind-borne thing, too :) in this case it is an experience as well as a condition for experience
    Bolonath Crystal: does time xist, if nothing happens?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Well.. mind perceives time...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Is mind separate from time?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Also, mind perceives something happening, which is time....
    Bolonath Crystal: imo mind doesn't really perceive time. it creates time. so it is separate and not separate from it
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Right. It creates time in thought, you mean?
    Bolonath Crystal: yes, exactly
    --BELL--
    Lawrence Vyceratops: And then, there is the phenomenon of "awareness," due to...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: ...there is an awareness, due to the thought process.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: This awareness seems to be more like a phenomenon than an ego.
    Bolonath Crystal: i don't think that thoughts (or even an ego) are necessary for awareness
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Oh, we have to go over awareness again...
    Bolonath Crystal: e.g. plants are aware of light, without (as i suppose) much thinking
    Lawrence Vyceratops: But there is still thinking.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: We couldnt sit up, if there was no brain activituy.
    Bolonath Crystal: awareness might be rather a (or any) form of interaction
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I see awareness as recognition.
    Bolonath Crystal: o i c
    Bolonath Crystal: i see it slightly different
    Lawrence Vyceratops: How so?
    Bolonath Crystal: with awareness we realize something. recognition means to give this "something" a name
    Bolonath Crystal: so recognition is a think-process
    Bolonath Crystal: awareness isn't
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Wait, I'm not clear on the difference...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: What do you mean by "realizing something?"
    Bolonath Crystal: difficult question, lol. i never thought about that
    Bolonath Crystal: realizing means, that the "something" i realize has some effect on me
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Emotional or psychological effect?
    Bolonath Crystal: any effect
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Like touching a hot stove?
    Bolonath Crystal: yes, for example
    Lawrence Vyceratops: How is that different from recognition?
    Bolonath Crystal: or let's say.... there are two electrones. both are carrying a negatice charge, so they repell each other. both electrones are aware of each other, but i don't think they recognize each other
    Lawrence Vyceratops: So, are we trying to see that awareness?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: What are we trying to do again?
    Bolonath Crystal: practice openness. we don't try to see something special. we try to see what happens, if we drop our mind-processes
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Oh, right...
    Bolonath Crystal: if we have certain expectations, we might be misled
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I don't know if that's awareness...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: We can't really "drop" our mind-processes...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: We can just minimize them.
    Bolonath Crystal: well, that's an approach :)
    --BELL--
    Lawrence Vyceratops: But, then, that's still not really awareness.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: To me...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Religions seem to try to "balance" a perceived "imbalance."
    Lawrence Vyceratops: It seems that we come up with moral systems to create a sense of "good."
    Lawrence Vyceratops: And we label the woes of the world as "bad."
    Lawrence Vyceratops: We make a bunch of excuses,w hen the truth is,
    Lawrence Vyceratops: we just need to stop fighting. And start taking care of each other.
    Bolonath Crystal: i agree so far. but the "play as being"-project isn't religious at all. there is a difference between religion and spirituality
    Bolonath Crystal: in this group there are many religions involved :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Right.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I'm still not clear on the spirituality thing, either...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I see time as being the closest thing to spiritual.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Of course, we're getting back into mind again...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Sorry about the outburst. It just seems to be the whole point of exploring our religious/moral/spiritual side-thingy...
    Bolonath Crystal: i love outburts :)
    Bolonath Crystal: +s
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Great.
    Lawrence Vyceratops: :)
    Lawrence Vyceratops: There must be a common ground for people to walk on.
Bolonath Crystal: i am very sorry, but i have to go back to work...
    Lawrence Vyceratops: I have to go to bed!
    Bolonath Crystal: i hope we can continue our talk next time
    Bolonath Crystal: to bed? may i ask where you come from?
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Mississippi. You?
    Bolonath Crystal: oh, i am only half a world away :) germany
    Bolonath Crystal: 11am here
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Ah! Two out of the first four people I met in SL from Germany!
    Lawrence Vyceratops: 2am here.
    Bolonath Crystal smiles
    Bolonath Crystal: thank you very much, lawrence, for sharing your thoughts with me
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Thank you!
    Bolonath Crystal: hope to see you soon :)
    Bolonath Crystal: but for now i have to go
    Lawrence Vyceratops: Same! :) Good day!
    Bolonath Crystal: om shanti :)