2010.02.10 13:00 - PaB As A Lab

The Guardian for this meeting was No Self - Since Fefonz couldn't get in world. The comments are by Fefonz.

Liza Deischer: hi Wol
Wol Euler: hello liza!
Wol Euler: hallo bert
Liza Deischer: hi bert
Bertram Jacobus: hi ladies ! ... :-)
Liza Deischer: there are not many people who say that to me :-)
Bertram Jacobus: hehe. okay. you know - my bad english ... .O)
Wol Euler: heheheh
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
Bertram Jacobus: how are you today ? :-)
Wol Euler: struggling a bit, to be honest
Liza Deischer: how come?
Bertram Jacobus: struggle with something special ?
Wol Euler: hard to say. Unhappiness, feelings of futility
Wol Euler: stuck in a rut of my own making
Wol Euler: the usual :)
Bertram Jacobus: ah - youֲ´re not alone wol (!) ...
Bertram Jacobus: i know this
Liza Deischer: you call that usual :-)
Wol Euler: hold that thought, sorry, I have to step out for a moment :(
Bertram Jacobus: most may know - may be all ...
Liza Deischer: yes, probably, and it tells us something that we classify that as usual
Liza Deischer: while it refers to a deep feeling of unhappiness
Bertram Jacobus: hello fael and yaku ! ... :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Liza Deischer: hi Yaku
Bertram Jacobus: and bleu :-)
Fael Illyar: hmm... I thought wol said something about coming to geek here.
Liza Deischer: she was around
Bleu Oleander: hi!
Liza Deischer: hi Fael, Bleu
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bleu, welcome to the guardian group
Liza Deischer: she was coming back, she said
Bleu Oleander: thanks!
Liza Deischer: yes, welcome bleu (now feeling the need to spell the name right from now on :-))
Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t know if you already got one of these :)
Bleu Oleander: no i never did, ty!
Yakuzza Lethecus: but sometime´s if somebody says the magic words it´s usefull, wol gave it to me when i became a guardian :P
Bleu Oleander: thanks!
Fael Illyar: ah, looks like I need to go :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: haven´t seen the sillyness before that :)
Fael Illyar: Hi and bye :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye fael
Bleu Oleander: bye
Liza Deischer: bey fael
Liza Deischer: a little late
Bleu Oleander: how is the time workshop going Yaku?
Yakuzza Lethecus: It´s still a confusing book for me, but pema is a good moderator.
Bleu Oleander: it's rather confusing for me too
Bertram Jacobus: what is confusing about it ?
Bertram Jacobus: hello ara ... :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: You should really join that workshop as well bleu since you read the book.
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey ara
Liza Deischer: hey ara
Yakuzza Lethecus: missed you at TSK
arabella Ella: Hiya
Bleu Oleander: i'll try ... the time is hard for me
arabella Ella: oh was TSK today? Oh noooo
Bleu Oleander: hi Ara
arabella Ella: Hiya Bleu welcome as a Guardian!
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, it was 4 am for pema :)
Bleu Oleander: thanks Ara
arabella Ella: owwww poor Pema
Yakuzza Lethecus: since he´s in japan again
Bleu Oleander: harder for him!
arabella Ella: only tough though if you need to get up early for morning appointments or meetings
Liza Deischer: nice glasses ara
--BELL--
arabella Ella whispers ... thanks Liza!
Liza Deischer: i try to figure out who should be claiming the log
Liza Deischer: but I'm not handy in finding it :-)
arabella Ella: I think Wed is generally Fef but I have no idea if there were any changes
Liza Deischer: wb wol
Wol Euler: ty
Bleu Oleander: hi Wol
Wol Euler: hello bleu, welcome!
arabella Ella: Hiya Calvino Hi Wol
Bleu Oleander: ty!
Bleu Oleander: hi Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Helo Ara :)
Liza Deischer: hi cal
Bertram Jacobus: hi cal :-)
Bertram Jacobus: re wol :-)
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: whatever.
arabella Ella: Hey everyone we are so quiet here tonight ... any topics?
Calvino Rabeni: "Can we make conjectures, hypotheses about what Being could be, and play with those in our day-to-day life? What happens when we do?"
Calvino Rabeni: (from PaB web site)
arabella Ella: intruiging
Calvino Rabeni: My question is - do you do "experiments"?
arabella Ella: and ... 'should' we make conjectures hypothesis etc ... or should be just let Being be?
Calvino Rabeni: "Play as Being is a group of people exploring reality by using our own life as a laboratory. "
Wol Euler: hello lawrence
Wol Euler: have you been here before?
Bertram Jacobus: heyy lawrence - nice to meet you again (!) ... :-))
Liza Deischer: hi Lawrence
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi. I've been here once.
Wol Euler: ah, that answers my wquestion :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Lawrence
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, everyone.
Wol Euler: so you know about the website and publishing the meeting?
arabella Ella: Hi Lawrence
Lawrence Vyceratops: I am aware.
Bertram Jacobus: (but we met at the buddha land) ... ;-)
Wol Euler: good, ty :)
Liza Deischer: Are you asking for being or playing?
Wol Euler: hello TH
Liza Deischer: hi TH
Bertram Jacobus: hello th ... :-)
TH Ordinary: hello!
Bleu Oleander: hey TH
Liza Deischer: brb
Yakuzza Lethecus sneakes into his warm bed, night everyone!
Calvino Rabeni: My question was - do you "experiment"?
Calvino Rabeni: Bye yakusan
Bleu Oleander: nite Yaku
Wol Euler: night yaku, schlaf gut
Calvino Rabeni: What are the barriers to "experiment", if it is difficult in some way?
arabella Ella: do you think it is difficult to 'experiment' Calvino?
Lawrence Vyceratops: What is the topic of discussion?
Calvino Rabeni: Let's say you encounter a friend unexpectely, then remember the 9-second idea, and use it, then look at it as an opportunity
Calvino Rabeni: The meeting with your friend is your life, and right then it becomes your "laboratory"
Wol Euler nods.
Calvino Rabeni: So do you make a hypothesis, make an experiment, try something new, see if it works out as expected ...
Calvino Rabeni: Or is there some difficulty?
Bertram Jacobus: seems to be the pab practise law ...
arabella Ella: nite Yaku
Calvino Rabeni: Which would also be part of the experiment :)
Wol Euler: oh, I think I get it. You are asking whether the word "experiment" is appropriate for using mindfulness to examine our lives?
Wol Euler: hello mick
Lawrence Vyceratops: Sorry, I was late... What is the experiment?
arabella Ella: I think there is a lot more to PaB than simply the 9 sec pause
arabella Ella: there are all the APA, etc
Mickorod Renard: Hiya
arabella Ella: (cant remember all the names right now)
Calvino Rabeni: I'm asking - do you actually do "experiments" and what do they consist of - what is your experience with doing such experiments
Bertram Jacobus: hi mick ! ... :-)
--BELL--
Liza Deischer: hi mick
Calvino Rabeni: Any lab reports ? :)
Bertram Jacobus: i think, "the experiment" is the 9 second micro meditation all 15 minutes lawrence ...
Calvino Rabeni: Play as Being is a radical concept and as so, I think one is justified in expecting a fair amount of "resistance"
TH Ordinary: if you are 'practicing beeing' are you being?
Liza Deischer: minfulness to me is something different then experimenting. But experiments can come into play. But if I think I can harm someone, I always check my motivation
Mickorod Renard: I guess its about what we may find out about our daily lives through taking time to observe
Calvino Rabeni: The idea of PlayAsBeing - at least originally - has a very experimental - that is active - component
arabella Ella: yes Calvino we discussed this a bit at the Malta retreat
Calvino Rabeni: that is ... what do you *do* with your awareness in your life?
Liza Deischer: to me mindfulness is an activity
arabella Ella: but i think a lot of PaB involves mindfulness as part of the experiement
Liza Deischer: and can give very different results then you expected
Bleu Oleander: we try to look "at" what we normally look "through"
arabella Ella: like the one 'Being Seeing'
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, that is the first bit of "equipment" for the experiment - mindfulness
Calvino Rabeni: The challenge is - can mindfulness open any real doors in your real life experience
Mickorod Renard: then there are different perspectives than just the routine that we get trapped in
Calvino Rabeni: The door handle can be grasped, turned, opened
Wol Euler: or licked...
Liza Deischer: mindfulness can be a trigger to do things differently, because you can learn that your approach is only based on patterns, not on openess
Calvino Rabeni: And so I'm curious, what experiments have been done?
Calvino Rabeni: And then what happened?
Calvino Rabeni: The practice is not just a concept, a possibility
Calvino Rabeni: It is a doing in a place and a time
arabella Ella: all the experiments done here with Pema are recorded in various places on the web, mainly on Kira wiki I guess
Liza Deischer: ah, now I understand you
Calvino Rabeni: And in one's daily life - "Play as Being is a group of people exploring reality by using our own life as a laboratory. "
Mickorod Renard: much is self discovery,,and as such private other than what is shared here
Calvino Rabeni: I'm trying to be a little "fundamentalist" here
Calvino Rabeni: Yes privacy is worth respecting
Lawrence Vyceratops: Have to go... Hope to join the group again... Good Day! :)
Calvino Rabeni: The question then is - do you do experiments "in private" even if you don't want to report them :)
Mickorod Renard: bye Law
Liza Deischer: bye lawrence
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Lawrence
Liza Deischer: oh yes
arabella Ella: Well Calvino, there are a number of experiments many of which we used to do with Pema here some months back
Mickorod Renard: personally, I do them daily,,and find that they now form part of my routine
Bleu Oleander: like what Ara?
arabella Ella: and many of them may be described as different variants of either mindfulness or phenomenology
Liza Deischer: i think I know what youre asking for, but it is hard to get personal about that
Calvino Rabeni: No, I mean real experiments - you become aware, look at your life around you, then say "now what"?
Liza Deischer: because most of them are
arabella Ella: but you dont look at 'your life around you' that would be too generalistic ... you need to be more specific
Calvino Rabeni: The resistance to doing the experiments - and the resistance to not being "private" - are related?
Calvino Rabeni: Ara, that is exactly my point
Liza Deischer: no, not to me
arabella Ella: like looking at a strong emotion that arises or looking at something that attracts your attention when outdoors or what
Wol Euler: hello laura, born today :) welcome to SL
Mickorod Renard: I do feel there is a limit that I have reached that I would like to overcome
Bertram Jacobus: hello laura
Laura Blackcinder: hi
Mickorod Renard: Hi Laura
Liza Deischer: hi Laura
Wol Euler: I'll give you an introduction in IM so we don't disturb the others
TH Ordinary: hi Laura
Bleu Oleander: hi laura
Laura Blackcinder: ok
Calvino Rabeni: LImits are a way to notice the structure, and get a handle on it - that is halfway to formulating an "experiment"
Liza Deischer: somehow this setting doesn't give me the opportunity to get into that
Liza Deischer: and its not about the people
Calvino Rabeni: Sure, maybe a mpre private setting would
Liza Deischer: :-)
arabella Ella: ok
Calvino Rabeni: For instance, I can say - yes, I do the experiments
Liza Deischer: I think it is more about environment
Calvino Rabeni: And then, I have some resistance to specifying the particulars
Liza Deischer: you need to get to that place
arabella Ella: and your question Calvino is then ... what do the experiments do for me?
Liza Deischer: and not just you, but everyone
Calvino Rabeni: Is "that place" an external thing, or a state of mind, Liza
Liza Deischer: state of mind
Liza Deischer: but you need to be able to share that
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Liza Deischer: and sometimes it is here
arabella Ella: ok i could try to use a simple example from today Calvino
Liza Deischer: I don't feel it is here today
arabella Ella: of Being seeing
Liza Deischer: please do ara
Mickorod Renard: some experiments have been rewarding in revealing results that I have been satisfied with,,,but that often opens up more possibilities
arabella Ella: i went for a walk in the countryside today on my own ... nice and peaceful
arabella Ella: and it was raining
arabella Ella: and at one point i stopped to watch spinklers on a small patch (field) sprinkling water in the rain and the spray flying around ... all on a small scale
arabella Ella: and i focussed on Being seing
arabella Ella: and let my mind play with that idea
arabella Ella: and it was all very serene and peaceful and in my humble opinion ...
Bleu Oleander: do these experiments reveal anything other than how the mind seems first personally?
Calvino Rabeni: I have seen, it is hard for people to share their "experments here" - but important to do them - and sometimes sharing helps others as well as oneself
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks, Ara
arabella Ella: it helps us to get better 'grip' (?) on our thinking and gives us more serenity both for ourselves and others around us
Liza Deischer: true
Liza Deischer: thanks ara
Liza Deischer: serenity is not the goal
Calvino Rabeni: And there's a kind of "meta" or bigger experiment - one's life is such an experiment
arabella Ella: it actually involves dropping everything else except the specific experience (or emotion) which one is focussing on
Calvino Rabeni: Serenity could be the experiment's observable
Mickorod Renard: thats true Calvino,,but some of us here have revealed lots in earlier sessions,,maybe a year back, and now feel that we would be repeating old hat
arabella Ella: what is the goal Liza?
Calvino Rabeni: Not a goal in the "big" experiment, but in the small one, yes
Liza Deischer: to me it is for now to become a better human being,
arabella Ella: ok possibly
Liza Deischer: to myself and others
Liza Deischer: it is about compassion
arabella Ella: or perhaps to make the world a better place for all ... altho that may sound rather bland
--BELL--
Liza Deischer: especially when I or somebody els is struggeling
Liza Deischer: it is easy to give space to good, serene feelings, but not very hard when they are not
arabella Ella: true Liza ... if I understood what you said :)
Calvino Rabeni: @mick, is it possible to "run out" of new experiments and then risk repetition?
Liza Deischer: it is nice to be nice to someone, but hard when you realize somebody needs something else
arabella Ella: but i think it is all a matter of practice and building up skill in 'dropping'
Liza Deischer: that's a good start
Calvino Rabeni: @liza, I think it fine to have a purpose or goal for what to do with the knowledge gained in the experiment
arabella Ella: @Liza it is even harder when you find out someone else is trying to manipulate you with deception!
Mickorod Renard: without sounding selfish, I find that I can articulate well being better when my own sense of well being is good and I can therefore see more clearly
Calvino Rabeni: It is like applied science, R & D
Liza Deischer: *but very hard when they are not (made a mistake a fel lines back)
Calvino Rabeni: I understand, Mick
arabella Ella: yes Calvino that is precisely how Pema described it ... applied science
arabella Ella: (thought so)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, very scientific,as Pema framed it up
arabella Ella: yes
Liza Deischer: yes are, for example
Calvino Rabeni: And theories need testing :)
arabella Ella: Pema also has a you tube video with similar ideas
Liza Deischer: I think I now what you mean Mick, but to me feeling good doesn't make things clear
Calvino Rabeni: Or vice versa,necessarily
Liza Deischer: but if you say sense of well being, then it sounds like something is growing inside, that gives you another and more clear perspective on yourself
Mickorod Renard: it helps to be able to see through things when one isnt clouded by issues
Calvino Rabeni: But, I think one can cultivat clear state of mind, or at least, see the presence of such as an opportunity
Liza Deischer: or to look at the issue that is in front of you
Calvino Rabeni: But a bigger freedom is to see through whatever is the present case, clear or cloudy
arabella Ella: yes Calvino and here this may link with the I Ching too
Liza Deischer: true, but you need to start somewhere
arabella Ella: and change is always there somewhere
Mickorod Renard: I often do it for collegues, other than myself,,when they are at a wits end,,stepping back from an issue to reavaluate is simple and productive
Liza Deischer: yes, it is
Calvino Rabeni: That's a useful maneuver Mick
Liza Deischer: yes, it is :-)
Wol Euler nods.
Liza Deischer: but how do you do that when you are full of anger?
Calvino Rabeni: PaB practice could be a quick way to draw back like that, and then "re-enter" with extra resources
arabella Ella would just like to say excuse me Pema if I have explained it all incorrectly :)
Liza Deischer: or feel completely unhappy
Mickorod Renard: dropping is easier under some circumstances than others
Calvino Rabeni: Remember - dropping can be partial
Calvino Rabeni: You drop just enough to free up some attention
Mickorod Renard: yes
Calvino Rabeni: and then leap back into the fray
arabella Ella: We have discussed those with Pema here Liza ... emotions ... and stopping ... and dropping ... and somehow taking on a different perspective through dropping time too
Calvino Rabeni: or maelstrom, or cauldron :)
Liza Deischer: okay
Calvino Rabeni: WIth "multilevel" attention that now has more than one perspective
Calvino Rabeni: additional freedom that wasn't there before
Mickorod Renard: yes
arabella Ella: Another exercise which Pema sometimes suggests is seeing life like a movie, frame by frame
Calvino Rabeni: It is not practical to go to the monastery, and come back in several years when no longer angry
Bertram Jacobus: frame by frame = picture by picture ?
Mickorod Renard: and also watching ourselves as like a parent watching a child
Liza Deischer: the only thing I try to say is that clearing your mind is not always an easy thing to do
arabella Ella: yes Bert
Liza Deischer: and not always peaceful
Bertram Jacobus: ty :-)
Calvino Rabeni: The difficult situation is the arena of practice
Bleu Oleander: like a detached observer
Liza Deischer: yes mick, that is where the compassion comes in
Mickorod Renard: yes
Calvino Rabeni: detached AND fully engaged
arabella Ella: well Liza I doubt whether it is easy for those who have been practising for years and years either
Mickorod Renard: we can be very forgiving for our own children
Liza Deischer: that is easy to sat Cal, but how do you do that?
Bertram Jacobus: hello fogtenk
Calvino Rabeni: and forgiving of one's own internal children
Liza Deischer: and we should also do so for ourselfs and others
Mickorod Renard: also there is the story
arabella Ella: yes
Calvino Rabeni: I don't think it's difficult in many cases, Liza
Calvino Rabeni: Do you think it is difficult "in general"?
Bertram Jacobus: iֲ´ll jump away - ty as always, have a good time - bfn ... :-)
Liza Deischer: it's the few others cases that matters most, most of the time
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Bert
Mickorod Renard: the story can lead in may directions,,but we can choose to some extent which path to buy into
Liza Deischer: bi bert
arabella Ella: nite Bert!
Wol Euler: bye bert, take care
Bleu Oleander: bye bert'
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
Mickorod Renard: bye bert
TH Ordinary: bye
Liza Deischer: but maybe I should shut up :-)
Wol Euler: certainly not, liza
Calvino Rabeni: No Liza
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Liza Deischer: because I have a feeling it sounds harsher, then I mean
arabella Ella: please dont shut up Liza I think we can all identify with what you are describing
Mickorod Renard: dont u dare shut up Liza {)
Wol Euler: clarification is always good :)
Liza Deischer: okay, I won't
Mickorod Renard: grin
arabella Ella: :)
Wol Euler grins.
Calvino Rabeni: Liza is usefully looking at the experience, I believe valuably
Liza Deischer: (she said a bit.....eh...insecure)
--BELL--
arabella Ella: well when very strong emotions arise in our selves like when someone deliberately does something to wind us up or hurt us, then it is not easy to deal with, but according to Pema, not impossible
Mickorod Renard: I feel so ambarrassed inside myself, when I know all these idea's and yet at times cannot find the effort to manage my own anger
Liza Deischer: yes, indeed, and I think Cal's questiong is (but I'm not sure) is how we experiment with that
Bleu Oleander: bye everybody :)
TH Ordinary: bye all, thanks!
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Bleu
Liza Deischer: It would be my question
Liza Deischer: be th
Wol Euler: bye bleu, bye th
Liza Deischer: bye gleu
Calvino Rabeni: Experiments with Anger
Liza Deischer: Bleu
arabella Ella: well IMHO when for example we get very angry ... we need to stop, pause and ask ... why am i angry ... what can i do about this ... what if i let this simply be?
Mickorod Renard: bye bleu
Calvino Rabeni: or depression, or fear, just to name a few emotions
Liza Deischer: somehow I don't seem to be albe to write the name Bleu right
Wol Euler: :)
Liza Deischer: fear is a diffecult one
Wol Euler nods to Mick. That's the core of it, yes, applying what we know to ourselves
Liza Deischer: but I think you're right ella
arabella Ella: and we could then realise that there is absolutely nothing we could do cos our anger is the anger of others ... not really ours
Calvino Rabeni: all very compelling aspects of experience
arabella Ella: so simply ... Let it Be
Calvino Rabeni: and tend to cover up "awareness"
arabella Ella: why?
Liza Deischer: no, but that anger can trigger our anger
Calvino Rabeni: People sometimes hope these will "go away" if ignored or dropped
Liza Deischer: it did, because otherwise we wouldn't become angry
Calvino Rabeni: But they come back to bite, if they are pushed into a shadow area
Liza Deischer: yes, but I think you say soething valuable there cal
arabella Ella: exactly Liza ... so if our anger is triggered by others ... what is it really?
Liza Deischer: dropped or ignored
arabella Ella: should it be there at all?
Liza Deischer: that is a big difference
Liza Deischer: and how do we make the distinction between those two
Liza Deischer: are we really dropping
Liza Deischer: or are we ignoring
Mickorod Renard: not buying into someone elses story is something one needs to understand
Liza Deischer: the it is your anger
Liza Deischer: then
Calvino Rabeni: Indeed, good questions
arabella Ella: not ignore ... it is there
arabella Ella: just put it into perspective then 'drop'
arabella Ella: due to the futility
Calvino Rabeni: A shallow "drop" will buy a little free attention
Liza Deischer: there is another techniec that is doing the opposite
Calvino Rabeni: A deeper "drop" may be more permanent
Mickorod Renard: it helps me to view others as living their own story,,I have my own,,in that way there is some seperation that allows self determination
Liza Deischer: (not being able to shut up anyway) yes, but 'giving' it back is opening the way of not looking what is going on with you
arabella Ella: no one said 'giving it back' .... just realising that someone else wishes it on you ... but why should you take it on?
Calvino Rabeni: Any story is true and also misleading, since it puts you in a perspective from which some things are accessible and others are hidden
Liza Deischer: you already did by getting angry
Liza Deischer: to me it is more interesting to see why it makes me angry
Liza Deischer: what is it triggering in me
Mickorod Renard: that is a good point Liza
Liza Deischer: even if I fully understand that the angers initially comes from somebody else
Mickorod Renard: and we often bundle emotions into one angry catagory
arabella Ella: anger or other emotions are often triggered due to a mis match (dissonance) between what we expect and what actually happens
Liza Deischer: yes
Calvino Rabeni: I think Liza is suggesting a kind of experimental approach - with one objective is to get insight
Calvino Rabeni: even if it is at the cost of not immediately "resolving" or bringing "peace"
arabella Ella: yes
Calvino Rabeni: Or do I misinterpret somewhat?
Mickorod Renard: maybe some anger can be depleted by seeing it as say,,,,frustration or sadness
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, they can be related Mick
Liza Deischer: if you let anger get the better of it
Liza Deischer: sometimes frustration comes up
Liza Deischer: or sadness
Calvino Rabeni: Anger is sometimes called a "secondary" emotion
Liza Deischer: anger is never going to stay
arabella Ella: for myself ... the irony is the HUGE difference in perceiving anger in others ... and perceiving it in our own selves (obejctive and subjective perspetvies)
Liza Deischer: nor any other emotion
Calvino Rabeni: Meaning there is something "underneath" it
Liza Deischer: to see it moving around is interesting
Mickorod Renard: anger can cause self damage,,thats what we want to avoid
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Liza Deischer: you don't get angry t there is nothing to be angry about
Mickorod Renard: Wrath on the other hand is managable
Calvino Rabeni: you don't want to be a masochist
Liza Deischer: if you don't feel it
Calvino Rabeni: Wrath is outer-directed
Calvino Rabeni: Sadism is unhealty outer-directed
Liza Deischer: I understand what you mean ara, and yes that is hard
Mickorod Renard: he he
Calvino Rabeni: The level of sadism / masochism is a lower consciousness state of anger
Liza Deischer: yes anger can couse damage
Liza Deischer: good point
Liza Deischer: but that is when you try to ignore it
Calvino Rabeni: Hopefully more awareness would raise it to a constructive level
Liza Deischer: or become anger
Mickorod Renard: I work in a school,,wrath is everywhere,,but it doesnt seem to effect the heart of those needeing to use it
--BELL--
arabella Ella whispers ... nite all must go now :)
Liza Deischer: bye ara, mick
Wol Euler: bye ara, bye mick
Mickorod Renard: I need to get home guys,,it was and is good chatting
Calvino Rabeni: Bye :)
Mickorod Renard: bye
Liza Deischer: that was fast ara :-)
Mickorod Renard: yikes
arabella Ella: he he
arabella Ella: cant TP
Calvino Rabeni: Come back soon :)
Liza Deischer: mick was having problems also
Wol Euler: I too must go, my dears.
Wol Euler: business to attend to
Wol Euler: bye for now, take care
Liza Deischer: okay wol, see you
Calvino Rabeni: Was good 2 have you here Wol :)
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Liza Deischer: I think I need to read this log :-)
Calvino Rabeni: There is a lot in it - and even more lurking just nearby
Liza Deischer: yes
Calvino Rabeni: The "penumbra"
Liza Deischer: but it also makes me insecure talking like this :-)
Calvino Rabeni: Learning to go easy :)
Liza Deischer: I'm not so outgoing
Liza Deischer: normally :-)
Liza Deischer: oenumbra?
Liza Deischer: penumbra
Calvino Rabeni: That is the partly lighted area around a planetary body during an eclipse
Calvino Rabeni: the metaphor of the light and the partial shadow
Calvino Rabeni: there are always many more implicit, unspoken things that get attracted around any conversation or idea
Liza Deischer: ah, ok
Liza Deischer: the attraction of the body
Liza Deischer: planet what ever
Liza Deischer: you crashed
Calvino Rabeni: oops - sorry :)
Liza Deischer: interesting
Calvino Rabeni: The nature of what happens here in the group, is very influenced by the relationships the members have with each other
Liza Deischer: how does it feel right now?
Calvino Rabeni: understanding and /or trust
Calvino Rabeni: It feels, there is always a gray zone near the penumbra
Liza Deischer: yes
Calvino Rabeni: being energized, maybe some fear
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: a dynamic mix between excitement and fear, like characteristic of "risky" sports for example
Liza Deischer: yes, but that is the fear most want to leave out
Calvino Rabeni: Sure they do, they for the main part stay comfortable\
Liza Deischer: and this kind of fear is very interesting
Liza Deischer: because you just stepped over you boundary
Calvino Rabeni: Except, there are people that enjoy different levels of risk
Liza Deischer: I have the same feeling about myself tonight
Calvino Rabeni: and all boundaries are flexible, and change somewhat when waked near
Liza Deischer: yes
Liza Deischer: some people don't understand fear
Liza Deischer: so they look for it
Calvino Rabeni: Athletes know it in physical areas of experience
Liza Deischer: to at least get the excitement from it
Calvino Rabeni: Fear + consciousness often becomes excitement
Calvino Rabeni: And in one sense, those are not actually separate "emotions"
Liza Deischer: yes but that is the spinooff from the fear
Calvino Rabeni: just labels that say something about how resourced one is when encountering the experience
Liza Deischer: hi Quin
Quin Maven: hi
Liza Deischer: you've been here before?
Quin Maven: i have
Liza Deischer: you know that we are still recording?
Quin Maven: no
Liza Deischer: it means that what you say is going to be recorded and placed on a website
Liza Deischer: unless you don't want that
Quin Maven: no i don't want that
Liza Deischer: then maybe it is better not to stay
Liza Deischer: or only listen
Liza Deischer: he has been here before
Calvino Rabeni: Usually visitors say OK to that issue
Liza Deischer: explained how it works
Calvino Rabeni: You have seem Quin here?
Liza Deischer: but keep coming back :-)
Liza Deischer: I think so
Liza Deischer: yes, though some do leaf
Liza Deischer: but then they leaf :-)
Liza Deischer: leave
Liza Deischer: as you would expect
Liza Deischer: that's why I asked to be certain he understands
Calvino Rabeni: Ah, I'm expecting a RL phone call pretty soon, now is a good time to get ready for it
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: GTG Liza, see you later :)
Liza Deischer: see you later