2010.02.13 13:00 - Smiling at Fear

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    The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by Yakuzza, Eos, Wol, Bertram, Arabella, Widget and SophiaSharon.


    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey ssl
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Yaku!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how are you ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm very good, a nice lazy Saturday afternoon :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, i guess it´s fine after snowmageddon part 2
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh so you've heard of it?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i knew that obama called it that way
    Yakuzza Lethecus: even state employee´s had 3 days off
    SophiaSharon Larnia wonders if people in snowy countries are just shaking their heads ;)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nah, i dunno we don´t have that much snow, even when it´s really annoying right now
    Yakuzza Lethecus: many minor roads are just 1 way roads
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I didn't even drive in it, I was stuck at work and then a hotel near work for the second
    Yakuzza Lethecus: since they don´t get rid off the snow or don´t know where to pull it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: so I have this calm feeling, I want to say my brain is taking a break, but it's more than that.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i guess thats fine
    SophiaSharon Larnia: did the 9 sec this week, alot!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i still don´t practice enough and it´s my main concern about pab
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eos!
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi SophiaSharon, Yakuzza
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eos
    SophiaSharon Larnia: just seeing what's in front of me was enough, i was content
    Yakuzza Lethecus: did you guys in halifax get some of the snow ?
    Eos Amaterasu: no, it's all happening south of here... :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i have carolyn rose gimian´s book in front of me by the way
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Wol!
    Eos Amaterasu smiles (maybe at fear :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: what is that Yakuzza ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey wol
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Wol
    Yakuzza Lethecus: eos gave me a suggestion and i decided to really buy that analog book :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: chogyam trungpa´s smile at fear
    Eos Amaterasu: http://www.amazon.com/Smile-Fear-Awa.../dp/1590306961
    Wol Euler: hello everyone, sorry I'm late
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: a warning of a delivery delay on Amazon, how funny
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, the issue might get popular in the states :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, a coworker said she saw someone buying a whole cart full of bread
    SophiaSharon Larnia: that is a bit extreme
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it looks like a book I want to read though :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: what stands out in your mind now about it?
    Eos Amaterasu: Language is simple, direct - very PaB-like
    Eos Amaterasu: Start with where you are, which includes areas filled with fear - look / no push /drop
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thats good, most of what I have now is dense and difficult
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi bert
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi smexy Bertram
    Bertram Jacobus: hey all :-)
    Wol Euler: hello bert, quite a change of av!
    Eos Amaterasu: Howdy!
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe. ty sophia ! :-))
    Wol Euler: I love your cheeky grin :)
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. sometimes a change is nice i feel ... ;-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Bertram Jacobus: cheeky ? okey ... ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: should have been ( be "slightly" ... ;-)
    Eos Amaterasu: /wonders if Wol is being tiger-y
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ara :)
    Bertram Jacobus: so i may have failed once more again in modifying - no wonder - i´m no good with such ... ;-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Ara
    arabella Ella: Hiya!
    Bertram Jacobus: hey ara ! :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: Arabella!
    Wol Euler: on the contrary, bert, your mods are great. Full of character.
    Wol Euler: hello ara
    Bertram Jacobus: hm. ty :-) (again) ... *blush a bit and smile shy* ... :o)
    Wol Euler smiles.
    arabella Ella: a new look eh Bertram! cool!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: a topic hasn't really been brought up yet, we were starting to discuss chogyam trungpa´s smile at fear [13:07] Eos Amaterasu: http://www.amazon.com/Smile-Fear-Awa.../dp/1590306961
    Eos Amaterasu: Today is "neutral day" - after the previous year's bad stuff has all been piled up, and with the New Year tiger about to leap out tomorrow
    Bertram Jacobus: ty wol (for the picrure) ... ty ara ...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ooooh is that it????
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i feel something ...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
    arabella Ella: we just celebrated my mum's birthday here today :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yay :)
    Wol Euler waves. Happy birthday Ara's mum!
    arabella Ella smiles ... thanks!
    Bertram Jacobus: oh - happy birthday aras mum ! :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: right, happy Bday !
    SophiaSharon Larnia: by here you mean Malta, not sl, right? haha
    arabella Ella: yes in Malta in RL of course :)
    Eos Amaterasu: she already lives in the party-town part of St Julian
    SophiaSharon Larnia wishes she was in Malta
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nice :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Jan 2012
    arabella Ella: yes she lives very close to the St Julians hotels you were at ... I showed Eos her home
    Wol Euler: ah, right, Mick pointed out the house to us
    arabella Ella: ah
    arabella Ella: who has read the book SophiaSharon referred to?
    arabella Ella: it seems to be very interesting
    Eos Amaterasu: I am part way through it
    Bertram Jacobus: which one is it please, missed it ... :-/
    SophiaSharon Larnia: fear seem to dictate quite a few decisions
    arabella Ella: Smile at Fear
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Wol Euler: heh
    Bertram Jacobus: ah okay
    arabella Ella: Chogyam Trungpa
    Eos Amaterasu: roar :-)
    Wol Euler makes a note.
    Bertram Jacobus: know most of it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i owe it but i haven´t read it until now
    arabella Ella: would be interesting to hear your perspectives on it please?
    Eos Amaterasu: very straightforward language
    Eos Amaterasu: start where you are is really start at the end
    Eos Amaterasu: cause there's nowhere else to go
    Bertram Jacobus: transformations ...
    Eos Amaterasu: where we are is often tinged with fear(s)
    Bertram Jacobus: dissolving illusions ...
    Eos Amaterasu: not escaping hard realities
    arabella Ella: facing fear?
    arabella Ella: how?
    Bertram Jacobus: like every facing
    Eos Amaterasu: first opening the eyes a crack
    Eos Amaterasu: and acknowledging the fear that's there
    Eos Amaterasu: quick little peek
    Eos Amaterasu: look again
    Eos Amaterasu: maybe it's there
    Eos Amaterasu: maybe not
    Eos Amaterasu: make a little bit friends with it, humor it
    Eos Amaterasu: back & forth
    SophiaSharon Larnia: humor it?
    Eos Amaterasu: yeah, if you push it away it takes on more ugly faces
    arabella Ella: does this apply to both psychological and physical fear?
    Wol Euler: hello widget.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting distinction
    Widget Whiteberry: hullo all
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ill give you a note card Widget if thats ok
    Bertram Jacobus: hey widget
    Widget Whiteberry: ty Sophia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh and Hi :))
    Widget Whiteberry: ˜smiles˜
    Eos Amaterasu: fear adds extra quivering noise....
    Eos Amaterasu: in both psych and phys fear
    arabella Ella: but is fear not one of our primordeal instincts ... fight or flight?
    arabella Ella: a survival mechanism?
    Eos Amaterasu: true
    Eos Amaterasu: you don't get rid of fear :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: like coded on the nervous system
    Eos Amaterasu: maybe you hone it
    Widget Whiteberry: just get used to it?
    Eos Amaterasu: so it's just there, without the extra quivermatics
    SophiaSharon Larnia: from past experiences
    Widget Whiteberry: my body can only maintain fear for so long
    Eos Amaterasu: fear can be very accurate
    Eos Amaterasu: so you have to move with it, not freeze
    Eos Amaterasu: I get fear moments walking on icy patches in the Dingle woods
    Eos Amaterasu: can be very, very slick - no traction at all!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: good to fear, in that case
    Wol Euler frowns. Surely we are talking about two very distinct things, then?
    Eos Amaterasu: the psych fear is more usually fear of looking
    Wol Euler: fear which is real and immediate and having physical cause, like slipping on ice
    Wol Euler: smiling at that is surely less effective than trying for a secure foothold?
    Widget Whiteberry: maybe it's the fear of the immediate and physical vs the fear of the distant and abstract
    SophiaSharon Larnia: so psychological fears, not fear related to real physical body dangers
    Widget Whiteberry: either way, my body produces adrenaline
    Eos Amaterasu: both
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    arabella Ella: does facing fear help one to better control or reduce the flow of adrenaline?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: if your slipping on ice, fear could make you panic and take a misstep
    Eos Amaterasu: Or you could freeze
    Eos Amaterasu: so you have to unfreeze, and go
    Eos Amaterasu: I think the psych fear is more often not anything even experienced, but anxiety on some level, often physical
    Eos Amaterasu: fear of experiencing something
    Wol Euler nods.
    arabella Ella: it could be anticipatory fear of a situation or a person or an issue
    Bertram Jacobus: sry - that´s not my topic ... so i´d like to leave - if it´s ok (?) ...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: for people with anxiety disorders, sometimes they order a medication that slows the heart rate instead of an antianxiety med.... it 'tricks' the body to not feel palpitations when the person is afraid, and makes the person feel calmer
    arabella Ella: bye Bertram ... gute nacht
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nacht bertram
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye smexy bert
    Bertram Jacobus: ty vm :-)
    Wol Euler: bye bert, schlaf gut
    Eos Amaterasu: ttyl
    Bertram Jacobus: you´re kind ... :-)
    Widget Whiteberry: arabella, for me facing my fears reduces the lenght of time during which my body is flooded with adrenaline
    Eos Amaterasu: it's like in dreams, when you look at and speak to the fearful thingie or person, it usually gets a lot more normal
    Widget Whiteberry: breathing regularly helps too
    arabella Ella nods
    Eos Amaterasu: being ordinary, accepting it in ordinariness
    arabella Ella: do you think this could apply to phobias too Eos?
    arabella Ella: fear of flying, fear of spiders or whatever?
    Eos Amaterasu: Can you say more about phobias, experientially?
    arabella Ella: ok
    arabella Ella: i have a fear of heights like if I have to use a chair life to get up a mountain
    arabella Ella: i then feel the space beneath me pulling me down like gravity and it makes me feel very anxious
    Widget Whiteberry: I had a huge fear of needles
    Eos Amaterasu: (gulp!)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: had? what helped you?
    arabella Ella: i would never try rock climbing or bungee jumping for example
    Widget Whiteberry: ara, does it feel like the ground wants you to fall?
    arabella Ella: yes
    Yakuzza Lethecus: needles and dentist drill, still for me :)
    Widget Whiteberry: I had to have a lot of dental work
    Widget Whiteberry: so I tried different things
    Widget Whiteberry: I tried valium - but then I couldn't drive afterwards
    Widget Whiteberry: I found it helped to have the x-ray blanket over me
    Widget Whiteberry: the weight of it
    Widget Whiteberry: and having the dentist's assistent touching my skin
    Widget Whiteberry: or me touching hers
    Widget Whiteberry: like her wrist
    Widget Whiteberry: or my shoulder
    Widget Whiteberry: also breathing
    Widget Whiteberry: during one procedure
    Widget Whiteberry: I learned that my adreniline could override
    Widget Whiteberry: the scopolomine
    Widget Whiteberry: a drug that generally causes forgetfulness
    Widget Whiteberry: facing it over and over and trying to do things to normalize my experience helped
    Widget Whiteberry: I can give blood now
    Widget Whiteberry smiles
    arabella Ella: de-sensitisation is one way Widget ... but it does not always work
    Widget Whiteberry nods
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the contact, the comfort of it
    Widget Whiteberry: I don't know what I would do for fear of hts
    Widget Whiteberry: each thing is a challenge
    Widget Whiteberry: have you learned to fall?
    arabella Ella: no
    arabella Ella: too scared
    Widget Whiteberry: like in Aikido
    arabella Ella: yes
    Widget Whiteberry: fall from a standing position
    arabella Ella: or other martial arts
    Widget Whiteberry nods
    arabella Ella: now i just avoid mountains and roller coasters ... life goes on without them
    arabella Ella: but i dont mind planes at all
    Widget Whiteberry: I find roller coasters easy to avoid
    Widget Whiteberry grins
    arabella Ella smiles
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Eos Amaterasu: they are usuallly on fixed tracks
    Wol Euler: :)
    arabella Ella: scarey
    Widget Whiteberry is not a big fan of fast moving small chairs
    Eos Amaterasu: part of the thing is to become aware of all the little fears that constrain normal being
    Eos Amaterasu: let 'em be, and then they just go off stage on their own, even if momentarily
    arabella Ella: could you give some examples of 'small fears' Eos and how they can be faced please?
    Eos Amaterasu: "is it okay if I say this?"
    arabella Ella: you mean that could be an expression of insecurity ... or of politeness ... or respect?
    Eos Amaterasu: little fear too
    Eos Amaterasu: checking about yourself
    arabella Ella: ah
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: so humor yourself
    Eos Amaterasu: _and_ the fear
    Widget Whiteberry: I could use another example
    arabella Ella: yes please
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go :) bye all!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye ssl
    Wol Euler: bye sharon, take care
    Wol Euler: happy v-day:)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: see you later
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks you too!!
    arabella Ella: bye SophiaSharon
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, bye eos bye everyone
    Wol Euler: bye eos, bye everyone else.
    Eos Amaterasu: Also have to go hunter-gather, Sy SS, bye ara, yak, wol, widget
    arabella Ella: bye Eos
    Wol Euler: I should be going too. Goodnight all, be happy.
    arabella Ella: nite Wol
    arabella Ella: take care
    arabella Ella: were you going to give another example Widget of a 'small fear'?
    Widget Whiteberry: hmm
    Widget Whiteberry: no, I was asking for one
    Widget Whiteberry: but I imagine between the two of us
    arabella Ella: ah
    Widget Whiteberry: we could come up with a few
    arabella Ella: between the two of us I guess we could come up with some 'big' ones!
    Widget Whiteberry: lol
    Widget Whiteberry: I like the idea of laughing at fear
    arabella Ella: would be nice
    Widget Whiteberry: I 've noticed that
    Widget Whiteberry: exercise helps
    arabella Ella: yes ... positive endorphins
    Widget Whiteberry: it helps the body regulate flow of hormones
    arabella Ella: yes
    Widget Whiteberry: if you were going to experiment with
    Widget Whiteberry: ht
    Widget Whiteberry: what's the safest thing you could do?
    arabella Ella: and what i find with small fears is that facing them in the sense of not avoiding them helps to de sensitise too
    arabella Ella: with height ... i dont think i would like to experiment
    Widget Whiteberry: what I'm wondering is
    Widget Whiteberry: how high is high
    Widget Whiteberry: a stairway?
    Widget Whiteberry: escalator?
    arabella Ella: a stairway does form part of the funny / weird experiences i have had with height
    Widget Whiteberry: elevator?
    arabella Ella: it often relates to a sense of 'openness'
    arabella Ella: closed stuff like planes or lifts are find
    arabella Ella: fine
    Widget Whiteberry: so an enclosed stairway is much better than an open one
    arabella Ella: yes
    Widget Whiteberry: do you stay near the wall side on stairs?
    arabella Ella: have you ever been up the statue of liberty or st paul's cathedral in london?
    arabella Ella: the open spiral staircases there?
    arabella Ella: horrible
    Widget Whiteberry: statue of liberty
    Widget Whiteberry: hmm
    arabella Ella: there is a horrible spiral staircase
    Widget Whiteberry: those are intense
    Widget Whiteberry: I wonder if you could
    arabella Ella: or the Balarney stone in Ireland ... you bend back with a huge open space beneath you
    arabella Ella: feeling the pull of gravity
    Widget Whiteberry: what about enclosed buildings - stairways open on one side and not the other
    Widget Whiteberry: you you use the railing instead of staying near a wall?
    arabella Ella: as long as the handrail feels safe then it is ok
    Widget Whiteberry: hmm
    arabella Ella: depends on how 'fragile' the handrail is
    Widget Whiteberry: a secure handrail
    arabella Ella: yes
    Widget Whiteberry: provides a point of reference
    Widget Whiteberry: kinesthetic
    arabella Ella: yes ... solidity and security
    arabella Ella: yes
    Widget Whiteberry: are you astigmatic?
    arabella Ella: no
    arabella Ella: not as far as i know
    Widget Whiteberry nods
    arabella Ella: would that affect it?
    Widget Whiteberry: I am and some of this relates to that for me
    Widget Whiteberry: oh yes
    arabella Ella: how?
    Widget Whiteberry: compromised depth perception
    arabella Ella: oh
    Widget Whiteberry: for me, it's an added challenge when walking down a path
    arabella Ella: could you say more please?
    Widget Whiteberry: yes
    Widget Whiteberry: I used to think I was just scared
    Widget Whiteberry: then I learned about depth perception
    Widget Whiteberry: so now
    Widget Whiteberry: when I'm hiking with friends
    Widget Whiteberry: on the way down, I keep my hand lightly on someones elbow or shoulder
    arabella Ella: yes that helps me too
    Widget Whiteberry: it gives me a 3rd pt of reference
    arabella Ella: like when walking close to the edge of a cliff for example
    Widget Whiteberry: so my body knows where I am relative to the ground
    arabella Ella: ah ... and i always thought it was a sort of anchor or saftey line?
    Widget Whiteberry: I imagine your body
    Widget Whiteberry: does not trust where you are
    arabella Ella: yes
    Widget Whiteberry: the visual cues are wrong
    arabella Ella: it is a very intuitive feeling somehow ... as you seem to know
    Widget Whiteberry: they scream danger
    arabella Ella: exactly
    Widget Whiteberry: for me
    Widget Whiteberry: I look for tactile cues
    Widget Whiteberry: to focus on
    Widget Whiteberry: like following a good dancer
    arabella Ella: yes
    Widget Whiteberry: you don't worry about crashing into someone or something
    arabella Ella: yes this brings another experienceto mind
    Widget Whiteberry: /menods
    arabella Ella: ski lifts which take two people ... when i used them with an experienced person / skier ... it made all the different to hold hands on landing or to feel the security of the other person's body too
    Widget Whiteberry: yes!
    Widget Whiteberry: that's very hopeful
    arabella Ella: but the single chair lifts ... which hang on merely a thread ... no way :)
    Widget Whiteberry: if you think of your fear as a signal that you need a tactile/kinetic reinforcement
    arabella Ella: interesting ... yes
    Widget Whiteberry: are you possibly coming to SF in April?
    arabella Ella: unfortunately not ... hopefully to Germany in October
    Widget Whiteberry nods
    Widget Whiteberry: you might look for people who could play with you
    arabella Ella: would be great
    Widget Whiteberry: experiment with positions and kinds of touch that are reassuring
    arabella Ella: yes
    Widget Whiteberry: certainly makes a difference for me
    arabella Ella: its strange though ... the way you describe it and from my experience ...
    Widget Whiteberry: yes?
    arabella Ella: the tactile experience seems to need to come from another human and not from an object
    arabella Ella: would that be the case you think?
    Widget Whiteberry: moment
    Widget Whiteberry: phone
    arabella Ella: ok
    Widget Whiteberry: back
    arabella Ella: ok
    Widget Whiteberry: I was just thinking about the other human
    Widget Whiteberry: but I know a walking stick helps me on hills
    arabella Ella: it did cross my mind
    Widget Whiteberry: however, other humans are handier
    Widget Whiteberry: and I don't need to carry them around
    Widget Whiteberry: ☆smiles☆
    arabella Ella: although humans tend to pass on positive or negative vibz to others
    arabella Ella: confidence can be contageous
    Widget Whiteberry: yes, and I've found all sorts of people are happy to help a stranger, or a friend
    Widget Whiteberry: it's a small ask
    arabella Ella: oh yes
    arabella Ella: and about being astigmatic?
    Widget Whiteberry: and I've helped people on planes
    Widget Whiteberry: well
    arabella Ella: yes i have helped people on planes too
    Widget Whiteberry: now adays, children get early surgery to correct the 'lazy eye'
    Widget Whiteberry: and that's a big part of it
    arabella Ella: yes
    Widget Whiteberry: fix it before the child is 2 and they're fine
    Widget Whiteberry: I had exercises but no surgery
    arabella Ella: i did once have contacts fitted for astigmatism but i was later told i did not need that any more ... still use contacts though
    Widget Whiteberry nods
    Widget Whiteberry: you and I both wear glasses in SL
    arabella Ella nods
    Widget Whiteberry: I'm much more comfortable with them
    arabella Ella: yes ... although i like my contacts too
    Widget Whiteberry: I hope you'll play with these ideas a bit
    Widget Whiteberry: nothing drastic
    Widget Whiteberry: just little things
    arabella Ella: contacts are useful for going swimming, when it is raining, when dealing with steam, etc.
    arabella Ella: also peeling onions :)
    Widget Whiteberry: really!
    arabella Ella: i certainly will thank you so much!
    Widget Whiteberry: yvw
    Widget Whiteberry: I'm going to go, but I'm glad you stayed to talk
    arabella Ella: very helpful very useful and makes a lot of sense thanks!
    arabella Ella: i must go too it is very late here nearly midnight
    Widget Whiteberry smiles
    Widget Whiteberry: sleep well
    arabella Ella: thanks bye for now take care and thanks again!
    Widget Whiteberry: bye!
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