2010.02.16 07:00 - New Vicious cycles

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways.

    Vecelli and I chat together for a while.

    Riddle Sideways: Good Morning, Listener Master!
    Riddle Sideways: good morning
    Vecelli Puddlegum: Hello
    Riddle Sideways: you are new here?
    Riddle Sideways: do you know about our PaB group?
    Vecelli Puddlegum: I am pretty new
    Vecelli Puddlegum: yes, I was here Sunday morning
    Riddle Sideways: ah, I will skip the intro speeches :)
    Vecelli Puddlegum: do you make speeches?
    Riddle Sideways: no not really, but I could make something up :)
    Vecelli Puddlegum: haha
    Vecelli Puddlegum: I am interested in this idea of meditating for short periods every 15 minutes
    Vecelli Puddlegum: do you do that?
    Riddle Sideways: for about a year and a half
    Vecelli Puddlegum: wow
    Riddle Sideways: oh, not every 15min during that time
    Riddle Sideways: I use to have my computer gong every 15 min
    Riddle Sideways: it stopped a year ago
    Riddle Sideways: I did not even notice
    Vecelli Puddlegum: not notice?
    Vecelli Puddlegum: you kept on meditating?
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Riddle Sideways: well, only 9 sec
    Riddle Sideways: ha
    Vecelli Puddlegum: ha
    Riddle Sideways: have you been trying these little mediatations?
    Vecelli Puddlegum: just a little. I only just read a little bit of the website
    Riddle Sideways: that 90 sec now seems really long
    Vecelli Puddlegum: Yous steaming lotus remionds me of the fire in the longhouse on cold winter evenings
    Riddle Sideways: yes, sweat lodges, tepees too
    Vecelli Puddlegum: do you meditate for long periods too?
    Riddle Sideways: some times
    Vecelli Puddlegum: is there a difference?
    Riddle Sideways: maybe once a week
    Riddle Sideways: these one breathe moment are a quick glipse
    Riddle Sideways: a quick look between a crack in reality
    Riddle Sideways: you are doing/being/trying/involved in a something
    Riddle Sideways: then bing...
    Riddle Sideways: a quick snapshot
    Riddle Sideways: breathe, and write down a note to self
    Riddle Sideways: may be write one word, an image
    Riddle Sideways: then go on to soemthing else
    Vecelli Puddlegum: a crack in reality?
    Vecelli Puddlegum: reminds me of Leonard Cohen
    Vecelli Puddlegum: the light comes in?
    Riddle Sideways: sorry, (that is another way of seeing it) more like a crack in your self imposed shell
    Vecelli Puddlegum: ahh, that makes sense
    Riddle Sideways: when we are sooooo into an operation it could be like a meta-shell grows around us
    Vecelli Puddlegum: I am impresed...a year and a half
    Riddle Sideways: no no do not be
    Riddle Sideways: I am old and a year is but a small time
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Vecelli Puddlegum: :)
    Vecelli Puddlegum: still, I thought the idea was interesting but a year and a half, wow
    Riddle Sideways: after a few days, you will see patterns in what came during those 9 sec
    Riddle Sideways: I've kinda gotten hung up in the patterns and joys and time-outs
    Riddle Sideways: a. I use to write operating systems software and know the values of time-slices
    Riddle Sideways: stop the current activity, put the stack on a shief and go to soething else
    Riddle Sideways: if I have not already, then the 15 min gong helps me do that
    Riddle Sideways: b. like most of us modern life livers... we have to be so many personas during day/night
    Riddle Sideways: we must switch
    Yakuzza enters
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Riddle Sideways: we should evaluate every once in a while
    Vecelli Puddlegum: Hey Yakuzza
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Yaku
    Riddle Sideways: have a seat
    Riddle Sideways: but, just one seat
    Vecelli Puddlegum: I can see where the frequent stopping would allow us to see our individual selves that may pop up
    Vecelli Puddlegum: what an interesting idea
    Riddle Sideways: yes, it is
    Vecelli Puddlegum: Is there a guru behind this?
    Riddle Sideways: not really, there are 2 ppl that pushed it
    Riddle Sideways: well, for years they corrisponded and met on these ideas
    Riddle Sideways: but, it has become a group conscience developed movement
    Yakuzza Lethecus: guru meditation failure, *thinks back to his old amiga 500*
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sry :)
    Riddle Sideways: yes, guru is another "loaded" concept/word
    Vecelli Puddlegum: another?
    Riddle Sideways: sry, there are so many words that sometimes would be ideal in any given sentence but are 'loaded' with prejudice and pre-meaning
    Vecelli Puddlegum: ah OK, I thought I had missed something
    Vecelli Puddlegum: You make the short meditations sound enticing
    Vecelli Puddlegum: I am going to try them
    Riddle Sideways: btw Yak, I had an Amiga 1000 and 2000. Loved them
    Vecelli Puddlegum: Have you been stopping very 15 minutes very long Yakiuzza?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no, i often leave the practice out
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but pab reminds me of the importance of mindfullness in general and sometimes, yes i try to meditate in different ways
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s a good way for me to keep contact with ,,being in the moment"
    Riddle Sideways: please say more about the philosopy as you see some of it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, it´s just the paradox for me as it it´s pretty obvious ,,forcing that i WANT TO MEDITATE" doesn´t work out because forcing means by definition not to be in a very meditative state
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think it grew better after i listened to serveral ppl around here and did a few different approaches into mediation cd´s
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i have just the feeling that it´s important, but i can´t describe why exactly
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and the approach of pab that is open to any way you like and even better when you have your own tradition and share with other ppl how you come to ur own experiences that would be perfect :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: vecelli: how did you find us ?
    Vecelli Puddlegum: I wandered in last Sunday
    Vecelli Puddlegum: then did some readings
    Vecelli Puddlegum: I am very glad I came back to talk to you two gents this morning
    Vecelli Puddlegum: thank you for explaining your approach
    Riddle Sideways: no, my pleasure
    Vecelli Puddlegum: I need to go now but thank you again :)
    Vecelli exits
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye vecelli
    Riddle Sideways: we are so many differant religions, sciences, arts and outlooks at this PaB. Please come back soon
    Vecelli Puddlegum: thanks Riddle
    Vecelli Puddlegum: bye
    Riddle Sideways: bye
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i only miss ppl from non western culture countries :)
    Riddle Sideways: yes, wish there were more
    Riddle Sideways: something in what you said about forcing
    Riddle Sideways: I guess I have ovoided "forcing" for so many years that it comes natural
    Riddle Sideways: I remember repeating the mantra "Forcing is bad" :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Riddle Sideways: it just is in me now
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i have the issue that i can have a mantra but the words don´t bear the meaning
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hard to describe

    Yakuzza Lethecus: saying ,,i don´t have fear" while being fearfull
    Riddle Sideways: yes, understand
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i have the feeling i lied to myself with a difference of words and semantics in the past, being fearfull thinking about the fear and that the fear should go away only made the fear stronger
    Riddle Sideways: somehow, just taking a breathe when ... (e.g. fearful) does it tho
    Yakuzza Lethecus: associating the fear and the thought that the fear should go away wherever i thought about it
    Riddle Sideways: you discribe a vicious cycle
    Riddle Sideways: both positive and negitive MUST exist in it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: because i think i never dropped it, i wanted to force something to go away what wasn´t there anyway
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so creating it from itself
    Riddle Sideways: and you see that?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: at least i hope it was how i did it with different thoughts about my educational skills or even how i engaged ppl in the past
    Riddle Sideways: can you loosely see it?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: not loosly but that´s what i think about in dropping
    Yakuzza Lethecus: not to ,,make it go away", it just wasn´t there to see more clearly to not getting stuck in anticipated possibilites
    Riddle Sideways: yes, that's the way
    Yakuzza Lethecus: there isn´t ,,the way", but yes that´s how i would describe it right now
    Riddle Sideways: sorry (bad/loaded words again), but I understand
    Yakuzza Lethecus: if you see the budda on the road, kill him :)
    Riddle Sideways: again and again
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no i didn´t wanted to be too serious :P
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, the issue of dropping is serious
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but after that with ,,there isn´t a way" was just a stupid loaded phrase from mysefl
    Yakuzza Lethecus: still the entire forcing issue and anticipation issue is serious since i guess that really blocked me in the past
    Riddle Sideways: Is two of the biggest issues for most PaB'ers
    Riddle Sideways: as usual, things get really interesting and productive just as I have to leave and Be somewhere else. :(
    Riddle Sideways: please to understand, Yak
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s a good point to stop and watch anyway
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care riddle
    Riddle Sideways: thanks and you too
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