2010.02.20 01:00 - Brave New World or Same Old Story?

The Guardian for this meeting was Scathach Rhiadra. The comments are by Scathach Rhiadra.

Archmage Atlantis: hi Acat, Yak
Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning everyone
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hello
Scathach Rhiadra: good morning yakuzza, Arch, Lawrence
--BELL--
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hey, Bert.
Bertrum Quan: Hi everyone
Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning bertrum
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello bertrum
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello bolonath
Archmage Atlantis: Hello, Bert. Yack, Sacthach'
Bolonath Crystal: namaste @ all :)
Archmage Atlantis: And Blo
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bolo
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hello, Bolonath.
Bertrum Quan: Hi Bolonath
Archmage Atlantis: Ok. i have a small toc
Archmage Atlantis: popic
Archmage Atlantis: yop[v
Scathach Rhiadra: please tell us...
Archmage Atlantis: uikrd
Archmage Atlantis: slosw
Archmage Atlantis: nraih gand iw
Archmage Atlantis: brain hand connection is malfundtioning
Archmage Atlantis: Lost the topiv
Lawrence Vyceratops: haha
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Bolonath Crystal: relax and take a deep breath, arch. it'll come again
Archmage Atlantis: Bought voice software a year ago
Bolonath Crystal: i never saw a voice software that really does its job...
Archmage Atlantis: ssyill notworking
Archmage Atlantis: pologize...aility to use hands is fading
Bolonath Crystal: i'm looking forward to the time when mankind is developed enough to communicate telepathically
Lawrence Vyceratops: With brain chips, it shouldn't be too long.
Yakuzza Lethecus: but we still have to train our body´s
Bolonath Crystal: yep, it may take a while
Bertram Jacobus: hello everybody :-)
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Bertram.
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Bertram
Bolonath Crystal: namaste bert. Oel ngati kam-ei-e
Yakuzza Lethecus: so augmentation shouldn´t cause the dystrophia of other parts in our body
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bertram
Bertram Jacobus: oops - bolo ! (?) how do you know such a language ? or was / is it just phantasie ? ... ;-)
--BELL--
Bolonath Crystal: you told me yesterday. bertram
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Bertram Jacobus: *impressed*
Bolonath Crystal: *g*
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye the way there are even input devices in a consumer pricerange with whom you can control software ,,semi mentally"
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_Impulse_Actuator
Yakuzza Lethecus: but it´s like those voice regognition software not really reliable i guess
Scathach Rhiadra: too many variables maybe
Lawrence Vyceratops: I wonder if brains are going to fix our thinking in the future.
Lawrence Vyceratops: brain chips*
Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, what needs to be fixed, who defines the right way ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: are we still indiviual´s after the ,,fix" ?
Lawrence Vyceratops: You know, what's being done with pharmaceuticals... but replaced later with brain chips.
Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i am scared about direct in put to the brain there were even experiments with mice who prefered activating the pleasure area´s in there brain´s then eating and straved themselves to death
Yakuzza Lethecus: can´t toss the reference it was an audio lecture
Lawrence Vyceratops: That happens to humans.
Lawrence Vyceratops: They take drugs and don't eat.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Some people think humans need to evolve, but we already consider ourselves evolved from animals; even though we are still much like animals...
Lawrence Vyceratops: perhaps, we have already evolved, but our thinking hasn't.
Lawrence Vyceratops: And maybe, before we can have a revolution of consciousness, they'll invent a computer chip to put in your brain.
--BELL--
Bolonath Crystal: we don't 'need' to evolve. it is unevitable
Lawrence Vyceratops: Some people think that we need to evolve. I think we already have, but we are still a lot like animals in our thinking.
Lawrence Vyceratops: And then people like the Buddha came along and said, hey, your thinking is messed up. But I think they'll invent a computer chip before everyone thinks differently.
Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t know how great the universal belief of ,,we have already everything we need" is working out in context of a modern consumer oriented economy
Yakuzza Lethecus: and this belief is to some extend what i understand under buddism
Yakuzza Lethecus: i am not that deep into buddism is there anyone here who could reflect on that because that thought comes often to my mind ?
Lawrence Vyceratops: Which thought is that, Yakuzza?
Yakuzza Lethecus: How buddism goes together with a cosumer oriented society.
Yakuzza Lethecus: Because the constant grapsing for iphone,pc´s, the next further vacation on some fancy place, visiting mount everyest or what ever seems to be part of the western culture.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, and everyone loves it. haha
Scathach Rhiadra: but is that about what we need or what we want?
Yakuzza Lethecus: Implicitly we grasp for higher wages, and seem to elaborate a ,,need" on these things while i understand buddism more in a way that ,,we need nothing for happyness".
Bertram Jacobus: i would speak more of individuals then of "society". and then, it´s everybody´s choice, what he chooses : how much consuming and how much buddhism for example. all fits into a human brain, all combinations, astonishing sometimes ...
Yakuzza Lethecus: scath: i have the feeling that it´s about developing a ,,need" when in fact it is or ,,was a want"
Lawrence Vyceratops: Right, Yak, you are saying that there doesn't need to be an evolution.
Bolonath Crystal: it is a matter of values. buddha teaches us to drop one thing after another. thats not renunciation, it is liberation.
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Lawrence Vyceratops: But there is an awful lot of discord and violence in the world...
Bertram Jacobus: always look at the bright side of life
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: Most see that as a problem, even if they try to escape from it with iphones and vacations.
Bertram Jacobus: :-))
Scathach Rhiadra: there has always been discord and violence in the world, not necessarily any worse now
Bolonath Crystal: ah... a world with war and iphone is better than a world with war only ;)
Bertram Jacobus: :-))
Lawrence Vyceratops: I suppose....
Bertram Jacobus: wonderful bolonath ! generous !
Yakuzza Lethecus: so an iphone makes the world better after ur definition ?
Bertram Jacobus: the buddha may has been a bit more straight (?) ... ;-)
Bolonath Crystal: looks like
Bolonath Crystal: yak, this is not my personal way of thinking
--BELL--
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Bertram Jacobus: may be a question of personal needs ... whether one wants to go very fast the spiritual way or needs some more good impressions before being able to continue to drop ...
Yakuzza Lethecus: lawrence: yes i think there is no evolution ,,needed" but since i often that it´s a lack of authenthicity in our politics and in our everydaylife behavior
Bolonath Crystal: we are like little young birds learning to fly. we spread our wings, but we won't be able to fly unless we let go of the twigs
Yakuzza Lethecus: we destroy ,,grown" structures to replace those with our artifical belief´s of democracy while we are still studying our own social networks and or own ,,grown democracy´s"
Yakuzza Lethecus: we seem to carry around a flag of virtue in the world while at least i don´t know what true virtue is
Lawrence Vyceratops: So, we have a sense as being above animals, to be intelligent and all that business. But, at the same time, we seem dissatisfied with our state of consciousness.
Yakuzza Lethecus: sry i might have driven away in my associations bye the way :)
Bertram Jacobus: ty for the meeting all - have a good time - and may all beings be happy please (!) ...
Lawrence Vyceratops: Goodnight, Bertram.
Scathach Rhiadra: good by Bertram, have a good weekend
Yakuzza Lethecus: ciao bertram
Bertram Jacobus: tyty :-) same same :-)
Bolonath Crystal: i'm leaving 2. om shanti
Lawrence Vyceratops: Bye, Bolonath.
Scathach Rhiadra: Namasté Bolonath:)
Lawrence Vyceratops: Why do we seek a spiritual path?
Scathach Rhiadra: well, why do you Lawrence?
Scathach Rhiadra: everyone is different, would have different personal reasons
Lawrence Vyceratops: I've never been clear on what spirituality is ;)
Yakuzza Lethecus: nods
Lawrence Vyceratops: As a child, spirituality seemed foreign; as an adult, I grew tired with it and tossed it out.
--BELL--
Lawrence Vyceratops: Also, as a child, I was only concerned with time and existence; as and adult, mostly with violence and war.
Scathach Rhiadra: I must go too, thank you all
Lawrence Vyceratops: Bye, Scathach.
Scathach Rhiadra: Namasté
Lawrence Vyceratops: Is it possible to look at things without a particular system of thought?
Lawrence Vyceratops: By system of thought, I mean a belief or mere opinion.
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye scath
Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, i don´t know i think about something i heard from thomas nagel ,,the view from nowhere" ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: a think that makes me facinated to philosophy is that often idea´s bugging my mind are already covered somewhere
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s just that i´ve never learned how to use philosophical literature or literature at all
Yakuzza Lethecus: until a year back i didn´t read at all, just short news, tiny articles but never books or something longer then a page or 2
Lawrence Vyceratops: Is it possible to look at things without philosophical literature?
Yakuzza Lethecus: sure!
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i think it´s easier to communicate idea´s if there is already a language in which these idea´s are covered
Lawrence Vyceratops: So, surely, it would be possible to look at things without spiritual beliefs. You are not religious, are you, Yakuzza?
Yakuzza Lethecus: no i am not even when i would like to understand my own christian traditions better in it´s genesis
Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t know if i have faith, so by definition i haven´t got faith i guess, but still i hope for something to be
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hmm...
Lawrence Vyceratops: What do you hope for?
Yakuzza Lethecus: Maybe even a god, some truth, something that feels worth believing.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Why do you hope for it?
Yakuzza Lethecus: As an excuse not to have found my budda nature ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: I dunno actually
Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t want to through around with fancy terms i don´t really know or truly understand
Yakuzza Lethecus: but actually that´s what i started to do
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fael good morning!
Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: When I think from my own personal experience, and not through an idealized version of the way I think things should be, I recall feelings of despair, dissatisfaction.
Fael Illyar: Good morning :)
Lawrence Vyceratops: Hi, Fael.
Lawrence Vyceratops: I look for truth too.
--BELL--
Lawrence Vyceratops: I have found, it seems, that a lot of my despair had come through a way of thinking.
Yakuzza Lethecus: nods
Fael Illyar: Yes
Lawrence Vyceratops: Basically, an experience occurs and we remember it. Later, it comes back under similar conditions and our body/mind reacts with our memory.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Over time, it becomes strong and when conditions arise, I react without thinking.
Lawrence Vyceratops: This is the type of thinking I found to be problematic.
Fael Illyar: in some situations there is no time for thinking though
Fael Illyar: although, most of the ones that feel like that are probably not ones like that.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, you are speaking of a particular situation.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Like, for instance, someone leaves the door open...
Lawrence Vyceratops: and you become angry when you see the door.
Fael Illyar: I told someone some time that "if you have time to think you don't have enough time to make the 9 seconds break, you have time for the break"
Lawrence Vyceratops: There is no time to think because it has already happened. Your blood is pumping and you are already angry.
Lawrence Vyceratops: But the problem comes when you don't see it, but you keep the anger going.
Lawrence Vyceratops: If you see the anger, it stops.
Yakuzza Lethecus: good example even i have a emotional sentence in that context in mind :)
Fael Illyar: seeing the anger only helps if you understand where it comes from.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Yes, it comes from past experiences.
Lawrence Vyceratops: You think about the electricity bill, bugs getting in the house, all sorts of things.
Yakuzza Lethecus: anyway, thx for sharing i got to go
Fael Illyar: have fun Yaku :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: cya around!
Lawrence Vyceratops: So, when you see it open, it starts.
Lawrence Vyceratops: Bye, Yakuzza.
Yakuzza Lethecus: you too fael
Lawrence Vyceratops: It is getting late for me too. :)
Fael Illyar: Ok, Good night Lawrence :)