2010.02.22 01:00 - Is Life Just a Game?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Tarmel Udimo. The comments are by Tarmel Udimo. When I arrived Calvino and Yakuzza were already there - before the first bell we had a chit chat...

    Calvino Rabeni: I predict Tarmel will be here soon
    Calvino Rabeni: You appear floating
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol, this graphic glitch :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, its my meditation practice
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: only real gurus fly over the pillow :)
    Calvino Rabeni: SL has these unexplainable glitches, like the software is somewhat random
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i was always wondering if that rendered for everyone in the same way
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good evening tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: Hi Yak and Cal
    Tarmel Udimo: how are we tonight/this morning?
    Calvino Rabeni: We are well
    Tarmel Udimo: good
    Tarmel Udimo: what was that about flying over the pillow
    Tarmel Udimo: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, a graphic glitch for me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: that sometimes happens
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Tarmel Udimo: I have been trying to bring down the prims on my house by using a rezz box but to no avail:(
    Calvino Rabeni: I love those earrings, Tarmel :)
    Tarmel Udimo: oh tks Calvino - got them in the Wasteland of all places:)
    Calvino Rabeni: :) the rez box didn't work, too bad :(
    Tarmel Udimo: very clever they are little light bulbs
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Tarmel Udimo: yes it is too bad it didn't work as i spent quite a long time on it:(
    Tarmel Udimo: and how is your film program going Yak?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: film program ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: thats gaya's project :)
    Tarmel Udimo: oh I thought u were involved
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nah, i watch too many movies but this project happens only once in a while
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so in some way film buff is fitting to me
    Tarmel Udimo: ok
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i still consider it a bad habit :)
    Tarmel Udimo: how many movies per wek?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i guess nearly 1 a day + tv shows
    Yakuzza Lethecus: not even german ones
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and no regular tv
    Tarmel Udimo: oh i see really addicted:)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I consider the mass media as somekind of drug
    Tarmel Udimo: fair enough:)
    Tarmel Udimo: and what do you get out of it?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: actually i don´t know
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i can´t even tell the plot´s after i´ve seen the movies
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i remember elements, i have ethical and moral questions that i am not exactly able to formulate
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Tarmel Udimo: but do you make choices about what type of film
    Tarmel Udimo: or do you give yourself permission to watch anything:)

    --BELL-- Then Bertram arrived dressed as a Navi from Pandor fame.. this led us to talk about the movie which then led us to talk about humans on the planet. Just before the next bell we were joined by new comer Roger Ormenthal..


    Bertram Jacobus: good morning all ...
    Bertram Jacobus: sry : morning in germany
    Tarmel Udimo: morning Betrum
    Tarmel Udimo: you are looking very ahhhh
    Tarmel Udimo: avatarish?
    Bertram Jacobus: ahh ? in a good or bad way ? :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: oh good
    Bertram Jacobus: yess - i play a little bit in pandora now here, in sl, too. like it so much, the avatar ideas and ideals ...
    Tarmel Udimo: oh ok
    Tarmel Udimo: this sounds like fun
    Bertram Jacobus: i love it
    Tarmel Udimo: did u make your own AV or was this a downloadable one
    Bertram Jacobus: i bought it in many parts, searched and put together
    Bertram Jacobus: some were free too
    Tarmel Udimo: very good
    Tarmel Udimo: have either of you - calvino or ya been to Pandora?
    Bertram Jacobus: ty :-) . again : i simply love it and am thankful for all these possibilities we have now. to play. as beings ... :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: Yak (sorry)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: not to the region
    Tarmel Udimo: ok well betrum will be able to give us a tour:)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but yes to the movie, obviously
    Tarmel Udimo: and are there humans there too?
    Calvino Rabeni: I've been to neither place, no
    Bertram Jacobus: sure ! but sry - by the way : i´m not bertrum - thats another member of us. i´m bertram ;-)
    Tarmel Udimo: sorry I have done this before
    Bertram Jacobus: yes, there are humans, too. " abig problem sometimes" (in the roleplay) (and in rl!) ;-) - but one can be there as visitor
    Tarmel Udimo: yes humans:(
    Bertram Jacobus: and we are (!) ... quite hard situation, big challenge to solve this
    Tarmel Udimo: what humans:)
    Bertram Jacobus: to transform into a good situation
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Tarmel Udimo: yes which is why we must do it all individually
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. our human task ... heavy sometimes ... but the more experienced people ... may see it really as a game ... to play ... more free ...
    Tarmel Udimo: trying to do it as a group doesn't really work i don't think
    Bertram Jacobus: but others can help
    Bertram Jacobus: inspire and such
    Tarmel Udimo: yes well to be in a situation to see it this way is a luxury
    Tarmel Udimo: I wander where this idea of life being a game came from
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello roger
    Calvino Rabeni: yes- sangha is important help
    Bertram Jacobus: hi roger :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: I mean In know the hindus talk about the 'dance of life'
    Roger Ormenthal: Hello everyone.
    Tarmel Udimo: hi Roger - welcome
    Bertram Jacobus: that was exactly what i thought cal ... :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: have you been here before roger?
    Bertram Jacobus: yes tarmel ...
    Roger Ormenthal: No, but I'm looking for intelligent conversation about the universe and it looks like I came to the right place.
    Tarmel Udimo: you sure did:)
    Bertram Jacobus: i would agree roger ... so feel very welcome (!) ... :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: pls have a seat
    Tarmel Udimo: oh I do need to let you know that we record our conversations and put up on the wiki
    Tarmel Udimo: is this ok
    Roger Ormenthal: Yes, thanks.
    Tarmel Udimo: great!
    Bertram Jacobus: how did you find us roger ? if i may ask ...
    Roger Ormenthal: It began with a place search on keyword science.

    --BELL-- We launched into what we all think life actually is and how it started

    Tarmel Udimo: we have been talking about the idea that life is : really as a game ... to play ... more free ...
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. great. yes, we have really impressioning scientists in our group, at least for me, professors for astrophysics and such ... sometimes it´s nearly to impressive for me (!) *shy laugher* ... ;-)
    Tarmel Udimo: and me
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: all very smart people
    Bertram Jacobus: ty. so i´m not alone :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: who understand the big bang and why the universe is as it is
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. they are all really nice. i think, the philosophy of this group is responsible for the very nice athmosphere ...
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Roger Ormenthal: My background is heavy science, but also spiritually eclectic. The truth can be approached from many directions.
    Tarmel Udimo: we also choose topics to discuss so if you would like to raise a topic pls do so
    Calvino Rabeni: That could be a definition of this group
    Bertram Jacobus: and my impression of big bang is, that it was only one of unlimited numbers (og big bangs)
    Bertram Jacobus: of*
    Tarmel Udimo: yes there is a thought that there are parallell universes
    Bertram Jacobus: roger - that is nearly a perfect describing of the groups spirit what you write there (!) ... ;-)
    Roger Ormenthal: "Big Bangs" may be local, that is, as big as they may be (perhaps about 13 billion light years today) each may be like a bubble in a vast foam of bubbles.
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Tarmel Udimo: but of course this still does not tell us what came before these bubbles:)
    Roger Ormenthal: Endless cycles, I feel.
    Tarmel Udimo: a black hole that devoured the manifested universe and spat it out again?
    Bertram Jacobus: whether parallel or not, also being aside and in a kind of timeline tarmel - my impression is simply that we live in a unbounded surrounding - it´s the only logical conception i can have -
    Bertram Jacobus: may be i can learn more, for sure. and get new, other aspects to know
    Calvino Rabeni: Unbounded but finite, they say
    Calvino Rabeni: Something new on the theory scene lately, the hologram model
    Calvino Rabeni: have you heard of it?
    Tarmel Udimo: I don't beleive this is a new theory:)
    Calvino Rabeni: pretty new as a credible physics theory, I think
    Tarmel Udimo: my understanding is that each part of the hologram is a reflection of the whole?
    Bertram Jacobus: that´s too abstract to me cal. (and i´m often too abstract for others!) - so i don´t understand that. do you ? ;-) ("unbounded, but finite")
    Calvino Rabeni: they are looking for ways to measure it
    Tarmel Udimo: this unboundness?
    Calvino Rabeni: unbounded but finite means - like a circle - where is the end of the line - it doesn't have one
    Calvino Rabeni: but it is not of infinite size
    Tarmel Udimo: ie continously growing?
    Bertram Jacobus: okay. but in- and outside of the circle are "things" too - my impression from what i know. so i would guess more unbounded and infinite
    Calvino Rabeni: they say, growing faster and faster
    Roger Ormenthal: Just as with the false outdated concept of geocentricity, I feel the big bang theory - requiring a center, may be just another expression of ego centered reality. There may not have been a center. Rather, vast regions of space-time may have experienced a sudden simultaneous expression of matter ,by way of some higher dimensional impulse or wave causing the continual expression and disolving of virtual particles from the vacuum state, to become "real" particles.
    Bertram Jacobus: may be sounds less phantastic ;-9
    Tarmel Udimo: wow
    Bertram Jacobus: no. growing and descending again, endless. again : my impression
    Tarmel Udimo: that's a nice explanantion:)
    Tarmel Udimo: and the space-time was unmanifest?
    Calvino Rabeni: black holes are a concept that may likely be inaccurate - and if so, so is the big bang idea that things started with a singularity
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Calvino Rabeni: it could have been a quantum lump - not sure what that's called - not a point
    Calvino Rabeni: so the density wouldn't be ever infinite, just very high
    Tarmel Udimo: yes no matter how we look at it our minds can't seem to take in a universe that can exist with out a starting point -even a higher impulse implies this
    Bertram Jacobus: singularity in a litterally way seems also to be only theoretically to me, not real on the material stage - more a perspective
    Roger Ormenthal: Big bang theory suggests that space-time itself is created in the initial expansion, and did not exist beforehand. I have trouble with that idea. I don't think that even "unmanifested space" is ever "nothing" but rather is always pure being, pure consciousness, pure existence, in an unmanifest form.
    Calvino Rabeni: singularity is a geometric idea probably not actully possible with space/time
    Bertram Jacobus: exactly my view again cal :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: it is just "math"

    --BELL-- This continued until the final bell when we decided to visit Pandora

    Roger Ormenthal: Re singularity, like a singularity at the center of a black hole, is probably a simplification for what we don't understand. Something like an atom was once regarded as a point, but now we know it contains contains a complex hierarchy of structures, like a miniature solar system. "As above, so below".
    Calvino Rabeni: right
    Bertram Jacobus: [all 15 minutes here is practised 90 seconds of silence, mostly at least] ... ;-)
    Tarmel Udimo: so it comes down to for life to manifest
    Tarmel Udimo: it must descend into a heavier form
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow ! and i missed the ty bell ! ... ;-)
    Tarmel Udimo: that it can't be a unified, singular form
    Tarmel Udimo: or force or energy
    Roger Ormenthal: Life become sufficiently complex, begins to be able to become conscious - of consciousness. It's a way for the unmanifest consciousness of the universe, to become conscious of itself. (Not my original idea.)
    Tarmel Udimo: agree
    Bertram Jacobus: i sometimes ask whether conciousness may not be everywhere and we only don´t see yet. a kind of quality of being in general
    Calvino Rabeni: Re hologram - here is the link
    Calvino Rabeni: http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-hologram.html
    Roger Ormenthal: I would hope, that if there are "big bang" cycles, that a distillation of the knowledge gained and the life formed, is not lost, but that rather somehow the essence of what was accomplished is retained for the next xyxle, or in a hiogher dimension, as part of a never-ending expansion of consciousness and intelligence.
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm curious who thought of this "matter becoming conscious of itself" idea early on?
    Calvino Rabeni: I have a friend who wrote about it 60 years ago
    Roger Ormenthal: xyxle --> cycle
    Tarmel Udimo: tks for the hologram link Cal
    Tarmel Udimo: yes I would be curious to know this too
    Roger Ormenthal: I'm certain that our mrmories are stored other-dimensionally in holographic form, and not within neural synapses.
    Roger Ormenthal: memories
    Tarmel Udimo: they are somehow stored in the body that's for sure
    Tarmel Udimo: or at least their portals are
    Roger Ormenthal: This is related to the "thought-form" concept that many sensitives are able to perceive.
    Calvino Rabeni: For history of ideas interest, here's an early book about matter becoming conscious through humans
    Calvino Rabeni: http://www.archive.org/details/evolutionhumande00kohl
    Roger Ormenthal: The physical body, brain, etc., might mostly be a dimensional interface so that our true, higher-dimensional embodiements may interface to this dimension. The body may be as if a "vehicle" that we "drive" while playing/learning here.
    Roger Ormenthal: Thanks fo link.
    Calvino Rabeni: How can you be certain about that idea of memory?
    Roger Ormenthal: Holographic?
    Bertram Jacobus: so - if somebody wants to take a look at pandora after the next bell i coult tp him to there ... (we talked about it a bit before you were here roger) ... ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: could*
    Tarmel Udimo: well i would like to see it:)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am out for now
    Tarmel Udimo: and ai agree the body and mind are portals to (higher) dimensions
    Yakuzza Lethecus: thx for the offer bert
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
    Tarmel Udimo: bye yak
    Roger Ormenthal: Was that directed to me Calvino, re holographic memory?
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, about it being non-neural
    Tarmel Udimo: tks Betram
    Bertram Jacobus: yvw tarmel ! :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: opps still didn't get it right
    Tarmel Udimo: Bertram
    Bertram Jacobus: so i hope, you don´t mind, if i leave now - towards pandora - was really nice to meet you roger - hope to see you again ! have already a notecard ? the group is here four times aevery day (!) ... :-)
    Roger Ormenthal: I feel certain subjectively. I can not prove it objectively, or scientifically. It is my best current personal subject to reevaluation, understanding. I find that when I try to remember something, I use holographic-like principles of illuminating fragments of the hologram with a "the laser of attention". I know that is very poetic and not scientific. I also accept however, the validity of out-of-body and near death experiences, and the related concept that we have a hierarchy of other-dimensional embodiments that make us up, which we take with us when we leave this level behind in death, and that we retain all of our memories, personality, wisdom, etc. I think neurons are more like a body control system, and are perhaps involved in short-term memory formation and storage, similar to cache RAM memory in a computer, as contrasted with hard drive memory, for a crude analogy.
    Bertram Jacobus: sure. all fine :-9
    Tarmel Udimo: ok
    Roger Ormenthal: Thx C for notecard.
    Tarmel Udimo: ok well its been a great discussion tonight
    Calvino Rabeni: thanks - it does seem poetic
    Roger Ormenthal: Poems may contain scientific reality. I'm trying to compress a lifetime of experiences into a paragraph. I can discuss it more scientifically if desired.
    Roger Ormenthal: By Tarmel, thanks.

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