2010.02.22 19:00 - Transitions and vowels

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The comments are by Eos Amaterasu.


    Bleu Oleander: hi Eos

    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Bleu


    Eos Amaterasu: How are you tonight?

    Bleu Oleander: great thanks, you?

    Eos Amaterasu: Pretty good....

    Bleu Oleander: I don't usually come to the evening sessions .... rare to have a night off

    Eos Amaterasu: Hmm. My regular shift is tomorrow night, just Playing as GoC here tonight :-)

    Eos Amaterasu: Look who dropped in

    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Stevenaia

    Bleu Oleander: hi steve

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello


    Eos Amaterasu: Does Play as Being pop up in your day to day life, Bleu?

    Bleu Oleander: so you mean the 90 sec practice?

    Eos Amaterasu: or something like that

    Bleu Oleander: yes it does

    Bleu Oleander: I find myself taking more conscious breaks from what I'm doing

    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Cal

    stevenaia Michinaga: hi cal, I'll brbr

    Calvino Rabeni: Hello everyone

    Bleu Oleander: hi cal

    Eos Amaterasu: How do you arrange them, so to speak (conscious breaks)?

    Bleu Oleander: they just come to mind more often

    Bleu Oleander: more random

    Bleu Oleander: how does PaB fit in your day?

    Eos Amaterasu: It, or the whatever it is sometimes knowns as PaB, comes up sometimes consciously/deliberately, but more often through happenstance, especially transitions

    Eos Amaterasu: transitions are a break anyway

    Eos Amaterasu: & all you need to do is to fall into them :-)

    Eos Amaterasu: Moving the dish from the sink to the rack

    Bleu Oleander: could you say a little more about transitions ...

    Eos Amaterasu: one thing has ended and the next thing hasn't quite begun

    Eos Amaterasu: awareness shifts, from one thing to another

    Eos Amaterasu: there's a pause, and ....

    Bleu Oleander: so by "fall into them" what do you mean?

    Eos Amaterasu: "Mind the Gap", as the London underground says

    Eos Amaterasu: By falling into them, I mean no need to try to scramble out

    Eos Amaterasu: find another channel

    stevenaia Michinaga: back

    Eos Amaterasu: something always does come up - that's phenomenality

    Calvino Rabeni: Transitions are like (analogy) changing the dvd in your player - showing a different movie - and the movie is "here is calvino washing dishes" - "here is calvino going to the bedroom" - etc

    Eos Amaterasu: but you dont' have to scramble to make it happen

    Calvino Rabeni: When in between movies, there is somewhat of an "open space"

    Calvino Rabeni: in that the "calvino doing X" is not so strong

    Calvino Rabeni: so transitions are a natural time to become more aware of the calvino, rather than the "doing X" part

    Calvino Rabeni: This is like, Pema's analogy of the film projector

    Calvino Rabeni: during the transitions it's easier to see the screen

    stevenaia Michinaga: I used to do the same when I would concentrate for periods of time at work... I take a breath, I called it like a sigh... a pause




    stevenaia Michinaga: it was then when I would knew then it was time to "back up" my file I was working on and renew my effort, sometime from a new direction... then I found PaB :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Another natural kind of transition is based on the habits people have of managing their energy - like getting tense, for instance, people have coping habits to deal with it. These can be conected with doing a mindful pause - that is like I'm sure you've heard - if tense, pause, take a deep breath

    Bleu Oleander: yes

    Calvino Rabeni: Instead of e.g. reach for a cigarette or whatever people used to do :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: so few do such a simple thing as breathing

    stevenaia Michinaga: or... pet the kitty

    Calvino Rabeni: It used to be for me - riding in the car, get tense, I'd often find myself reaching to turn on the radio to distract myself

    stevenaia Michinaga: not sure if I relax the kitty or the kitty relaxes me

    Bleu Oleander: I have two dogs that keep me focused and in the present

    Calvino Rabeni: Caught myself enough at that, to hook it up to relaxing and feeling myself instead

    Eos Amaterasu: Transitions can also be sudden and shocking

    stevenaia Michinaga: shocking?

    Calvino Rabeni: True

    Eos Amaterasu: sudden loud sound, and whatever you were thinking of has disappeared

    Eos Amaterasu: you're just there, open

    Eos Amaterasu: aware

    Eos Amaterasu: don't know what there is to be aware of

    Calvino Rabeni: Or even a subtle shock, like getting up from meditation too quickly

    Calvino Rabeni: That "forgetting" upon a transition - is a limited form of amnesia

    Calvino Rabeni: whatever was there before is still probably in the memory, like a dream that has been forgotten

    Calvino Rabeni: but still there in that it can be retrieved later

    Eos Amaterasu: at that moment you can feel very alive

    Eos Amaterasu: even though there's no handholds

    Calvino Rabeni: AFAIK, the brain remembers all the dreams one has had

    Eos Amaterasu: your senses are perked

    Eos Amaterasu: your whiskers are quivering

    Calvino Rabeni: In some cases that happens, in others, one just forgets and then finds oneself in a new situation

    Eos Amaterasu: In a big shock the state of mind can change for a noticeable time

    Eos Amaterasu: like 9/11

    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni thinks of firecrackers at a buddhist ritual

    Eos Amaterasu: but soon conceptual and discursive mind rushes in

    Calvino Rabeni: It rushes in within a split second, typically, not even noticed

    Eos Amaterasu: yes

    Eos Amaterasu: So what we do here is create it semi-artificially (ding!)

    Calvino Rabeni: As soon as it appears - "I know what that is" - the concept is already present, then starts the discursive internal dialogue

    stevenaia Michinaga: even slip seconds can last a long time

    Calvino Rabeni: Hmmm, it would be handy to have a bell we could ring here

    Eos Amaterasu: It's harder to create that ding (ding sans sich :-) at work or while engrossed in activity

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes it is, but how does that work?

    Eos Amaterasu: How do you do it, Bleu?

    Bleu Oleander: create a "ding"?

    Eos Amaterasu: so to speak

    Bleu Oleander: I don't know ... something catches my attention




    Calvino Rabeni: When the bell rang, I was in the middle of typing, and didn't want to let go of that to let the "ding" into me.

    Calvino Rabeni: So I didn't get the full benefit of it

    Eos Amaterasu: dang!

    Calvino Rabeni: Is it possible to remember the feeling of a surprise, and recreate its effect?

    Eos Amaterasu: problem is the memory of it

    Eos Amaterasu: subtle catch-22's there

    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe

    Calvino Rabeni: For instance it's ahrd to tickle oneself

    Calvino Rabeni: *hard

    Calvino Rabeni: doesn't work so well :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Or to tell oneself a joke :)

    Calvino Rabeni: But Eos, I'm not so sure it is the memory that creates the block

    Calvino Rabeni: If you could replay the felt sense, it could have power

    Eos Amaterasu: the memory creates the reminder

    Calvino Rabeni: I think, the attachment is the idea that it is going to happen

    Calvino Rabeni: which creates the inability to let it be fully experienced

    Calvino Rabeni: because one habitually guards against new experiences

    Eos Amaterasu: yes

    Eos Amaterasu: so periodically everything collapses, is a total failure, we can't do it any more

    Eos Amaterasu: and then the bird sings

    Calvino Rabeni: That is one way to have a vacation

    Eos Amaterasu: another way is to shift foreground / background, or experience that happening

    Eos Amaterasu: it's not that gaps happen in the continuity of things happening

    Calvino Rabeni: can you give an example?

    Eos Amaterasu: it's that things happen in and emerge from and never leave the gap

    Eos Amaterasu: the trick about experiencing little gaps is that sometimes you experience

    Eos Amaterasu: things arising in and from the gap

    Eos Amaterasu: they still have some of that quality, maybe humor, "space"

    Eos Amaterasu: freshness

    Calvino Rabeni: ah

    Eos Amaterasu: copernican revolution

    Eos Amaterasu: "ah" is its seed syllable :-)

    Calvino Rabeni: How is that?

    Eos Amaterasu: when you're surprised you say , ah!

    Eos Amaterasu: or when you discover something or "get it", you say "ah"

    Calvino Rabeni: It seems to express freshness

    Calvino Rabeni: and "oh" implies more insight than freshness

    Calvino Rabeni: How about the "eee" sound in "being"? isn't that one interesting?

    Calvino Rabeni: or "seeing"

    Calvino Rabeni: Was there more to the "missing vowels" in hebrew language, than just efficiency of writing?




    stevenaia Michinaga: seems they are a learning tool that becomes unnecessary with time

    Eos Amaterasu: they = ?

    stevenaia Michinaga: the missing vowels

    Eos Amaterasu: I tend to think of them as breath, spirit, what gets contributed by the living human

    Calvino Rabeni: I think, more than a learning tool

    Eos Amaterasu: vs the parentheses, brackets, solid posts, which syllables tend to be

    Calvino Rabeni: And eos' notion of the spirit is interesting, I agree, but was going to call it the divine spirit, not the one contributed by humans

    Calvino Rabeni: but the same, actually

    Calvino Rabeni: the consonants are the structure and limits and form; the vowels are the spirit

    Calvino Rabeni: and the energy

    Eos Amaterasu: Ah!

    stevenaia Michinaga: the vowels disappear in more sacred texts (torah scrolls) but the musical notations are written in

    Eos Amaterasu: someone observed that song is slowed down speech

    Calvino Rabeni: Have you noticed that the "name" of god is ALL vowels, and includes all of them twice?

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, true Eos

    Calvino Rabeni: not only twice, but in a pattern of moving energy down and then up again

    Calvino Rabeni: It seems like a fascinating principle expressed phonetically

    Calvino Rabeni: I can

    Calvino Rabeni: NM

    Eos Amaterasu: ¿

    Calvino Rabeni: :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Upside down question

    Calvino Rabeni: more like a V shape

    Calvino Rabeni: it reached down from heaven to touch the earth, and then returned

    Calvino Rabeni: (too mystical perhaps, but do you know what I mean?)

    Bleu Oleander: good nite all

    stevenaia Michinaga: night blue

    Calvino Rabeni: Niet, Bleu?

    Eos Amaterasu: 'night Bleu

    stevenaia Michinaga: mystical meanings?

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, the sequence of vowel sounds in the name of god, having an intrinsic meaning (not a symbolic one)

    stevenaia Michinaga: I never gave it much thought in detail

    Eos Amaterasu: I thought there were just 4 letters in Hebrew word for G*d

    Calvino Rabeni: Many ancient languages contained non-symbolic significance

    stevenaia Michinaga: but I knew it was there

    Calvino Rabeni: the 4 letters were consonants, yes?

    stevenaia Michinaga: it is always abbrviated, eos

    Eos Amaterasu: yes

    stevenaia Michinaga: never written

    Calvino Rabeni: But the fully pronounced word is like, all vowel sounds

    stevenaia Michinaga: no, not in hebrew

    Calvino Rabeni: it is considered a mistake - to write it down or speak it in wrong circumstances

    Calvino Rabeni: because it is a form of idolatry or something like that

    stevenaia Michinaga: the sound of the word include vowel sounds

    stevenaia Michinaga: I can't speak for the sanctitiy of there reasons behind that

    Calvino Rabeni: where the concern is the representation being mistaken for or distracting from the direct experience

    Calvino Rabeni: Just how people often resist overdefining their concepts

    stevenaia Michinaga: jsut that it is a word that if written can them be destroyed, torn, etc

    Calvino Rabeni: because they then feel boxed-in by the definitions

    Calvino Rabeni: and it becomes harder to think outside that box or structure

    stevenaia Michinaga: I see it more a sign of respect

    Calvino Rabeni: Right it also becomes too physical, in a way vulnerable

    Calvino Rabeni: But signs of respect are collapsed metaphors for something realer

    stevenaia Michinaga: nods




    stevenaia Michinaga: I was nodding to the previous line, what is a "collapsed metaphors"

    Eos Amaterasu: consonants without vowels

    Calvino Rabeni: Metaphors or symbols have a living quality - they have unclear boundaries and refer both to something within oneself and something outside in the world - creating a bridge

    Calvino Rabeni: They collaps to signs - mere tokens or figures

    stevenaia Michinaga: a word for the name of god (the metaphor) the abbrevition of the name, a collapsed metaphors

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes

    Calvino Rabeni: The word spoken has power, it invokes god

    Calvino Rabeni: the collapesed written word, is just a mark on paper

    stevenaia Michinaga: nods

    Calvino Rabeni: Leaving out the vowels is an example of that distinction

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Mor

    Moron Scientist: hi

    Moron Scientist: Why did you cut my name short?

    stevenaia Michinaga: :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: I'm a bad typist

    Calvino Rabeni: To be informal?

    Calvino Rabeni: Or not to say "moron" which is disrespectful in english

    Calvino Rabeni: We often use 3-letter nicknames here

    Calvino Rabeni: I am "cal"

    Moron Scientist: If I chose it, then I must not see it as disrespectful, eh?

    stevenaia Michinaga: have you been here before Moron? we record our conversatios and post them to the groups WIki, is it ok to include your comments?

    Moron Scientist: ok I guess

    stevenaia Michinaga: thank you

    Eos Amaterasu: I can give you a notecard describing what we do

    Eos Amaterasu: or not

    stevenaia Michinaga: :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Funny

    stevenaia Michinaga: nice name in any case

    Eos Amaterasu: Moron! :-)

    stevenaia Michinaga: Moron Scientist

    stevenaia Michinaga: Moron Scientist

    Calvino Rabeni: It's like - whoa, too much to think about, this is getting serious

    Calvino Rabeni: I can relate to that

    Calvino Rabeni: but the politeness compulsion is strong

    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, alot there in those two words

    Eos Amaterasu: What vowels run throught them....

    Eos Amaterasu: Well gentlemen, I will be off to bed....

    Eos Amaterasu: nothing but zzzzzz's

    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I should be going too

    stevenaia Michinaga: night cal

    Calvino Rabeni: :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: Eos

    Calvino Rabeni: I will take my vowels and go home :)

    Eos Amaterasu: Good night, Cal and steven

    Eos Amaterasu: :-)

    stevenaia Michinaga: lol

    Calvino Rabeni: Good night all :)

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