2010.02.27 13:00 - Final Retreat Theme Meeting

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    This is the final Malta retreat theme meeting. The idea was to look back to see how easy or difficult it has been to integrate into daily lives what retreat participants have learned during the retreat. This session was attended in all or part by Agatha Macbeth, Bertram Jacobus, Calvino Rabeni, Eliza Madrigal, Eos Amaterasu, Fefonz Quan, Gaya Ethaniel, Gilles Kuhn, Lia Rikugun, Liza Deischer, Mickorod Renard, Paradise Tennant, Pema Pera, Scathach Rhiadra, Stim Morane, Qt Core, Wol Euler, Yakuzza Lethecus and myself.

    The retreat participants shared their thoughts after merging back into 'real life'. This rich dialogue weaves a net of experiences, each with their own view and voice, laced with commonalities.

    For individual accounts, Please see 2010-Malta-Accounts


    Pab Malta retreat rememberances_001.png

    The first 15 minutes or so of the session is spent in greeting...

    Wol Euler: hello gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Wol :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: How are you?
    Wol Euler: headachy from lack of sleep and too much work, but otherwise fine
    Wol Euler: just had dinner, finishing my beer :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :(
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Wol Euler: right :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: A cool hair :)
    Wol Euler: ty :)
    Wol Euler: it's from Pandora (N'avi sim) but looks pretty cool on humans too
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
    Wol Euler: I'm trying to figure out who thzat is on your t-shirt
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :) Socrates, representing 'beauty'.
    Wol Euler: hello stim
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's one of things I did while learning GIMP.
    Stim Morane: Hi Wol, Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Stim :)
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Stim Morane: Hi Sophia
    Wol Euler: ty
    Gaya Ethaniel: How are you Stim?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Welcome :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Wol Gaya and Stim
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Sophia :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry was afk :))
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Wol Euler: hello sharon, eliza, scathach
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Scath :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello everyone:)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Everyone! :) Wow... what hair Wol! :)))
    Wol Euler grins
    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Scathach and Eliza :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Eliza :)
    Wol Euler: hello pema, yaku
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Pema and Yakuzza :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Pema and Yakuzza :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (I think the hellos are going to go on and on ;p)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lia takes a bit more time
    Liza Deischer: hi everyone
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Mickorod Renard: hi all
    Pema Pera whispers hello
    Qt Core: hi all
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Mick, Liza and Qt :)
    Mickorod Renard: hi Stim,,how are you?
    Mickorod Renard: hi Gaya..
    Stim Morane: Hi everyone, and Mick, I'm OK, thanks.
    Mickorod Renard: great
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick, Pema, Ya, Liza, Qt, Agatha
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi everyone :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Agatha :)
    Liza Deischer: hi agatha
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lia, too :)
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Ags
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi to everyone who arrived :))
    Liza Deischer: hi Li
    Liza Deischer: Lia
    Agatha Macbeth: Sloooooooooooow tonight
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe... nice, Sharon....
    Lia Rikugun: hello everybody!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs im hald afk sorries
    SophiaSharon Larnia: half*
    Eliza Madrigal: hahhaha

    Pema opens the discussion....


    Pema Pera: Thanks, Sharon, for letting us use your slot tonight for the grand finale Malta theme session!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Wol Euler: hello latecomers :)
    Mickorod Renard: space next to me Ags
    Pema Pera: Unfortunately Arabella is not able to join us
    Agatha Macbeth: Sorry Mick ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: :(
    Pema Pera: she just wrote me that RL was interfering; too bad, since she played such a central role as a most gracious and untiring host in Malta!
    Wol Euler: indeeed
    Mickorod Renard: yes, she expressed to me also that she was sad to have to miss this get together
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fef
    Liza Deischer: hi fef
    Agatha Macbeth: Awww
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Fef
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Fefonz :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Fonzie
    Fefonz Quan: Hey everyone :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Fefonz
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fef :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hiya Paradise :)
    Liza Deischer: hi paradise
    Pema Pera: well, we have eight of the ten Malta retreat participants here, with Fefonz and Paradise too, so perhaps we should get started!
    Mickorod Renard: Hi paradise
    Paradise Tennant: hiya everyone :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey all new
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi paradise :) (now quieting self)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Paradise :)
    Lia Rikugun: how is the water fef?
    Agatha Macbeth: Wet?
    Lia Rikugun: hehe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
    Pema Pera: So the suggestion is that the Malta participants talk for the first hour, 1 pm to 2 pm SLT, and then we'll have another hour, 2 pm to 3 pm for everybody else to join in as well
    Lia Rikugun: hey!
    Wol Euler: only the outer ring left, fef :)
    Pema Pera: Hopefully that's not too restirctive
    Pema Pera: but we thought it would be nice to let the retreaters have a chance to catch up with each other first
    Yakuzza Lethecus: fef, you think lia is a very comfortable person :)
    Lia Rikugun: hehe
    Pema Pera: hi Fef!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or pema :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :D
    Pema Pera: wanna lean on my shoulder?
    Wol Euler: only the outer ring left, fef :)
    Fefonz Quan: i just see myself sitting on the air :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Pema Pera: I'm happy to be like air!
    Pema Pera: emptiness . . . .
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Air today, gone tomorrow
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Fefonz Quan: donno, see no water :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Liza Deischer: emptiness is not air I'm afraid :-)
    Pema Pera: Who of the retreaters would like to kick off, with the question of how it has been, to get back to normal life, after the retreat -- and to what extent it was easy or hard to integrate what we explored in Malta in our lives back home?
    Fefonz Quan: (brb, getting tea, please proceed)
    Mickorod Renard: I would be happy to start
    Pema Pera: great!
    Mickorod Renard: ok
    Mickorod's account begins, and is described throughout the log...


    Mickorod Renard:firstly, I would like to say that i did feel a period of regret that it had finished, after arriving back home
    Mickorod Renard: a mild sadness
    Mickorod Renard: naturally I had family to returrn too, so I was glad to get home
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Eos
    Pema Pera: (hi Eos! you're number nine, we got all Maltesers now except Arabella herself)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: what did you regret ? did you have more expectations for coming back home
    Mickorod Renard: but I think the retreat allowed an uninterupted period for contemplation,,and this was very nice,,
    Mickorod Renard: no, in fact I have been able to reflect on what we did at the retreat in rl after it had finished,,all positive
    Mickorod Renard: a valuable learning tool
    Fefonz Quan: (back)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: wb
    Mickorod Renard: I think it was more a sadness in leaving a circle of like minded fellows
    Mickorod Renard: oops
    Mickorod Renard: I think I was left with a hunger to investigate PaB in the more intamate setting we enjoyed at the retreat
    Mickorod Renard: shall I stop there?
    Pema Pera: (sorry, correction, I miscounted: we have only 8 of the 10 Malta goers: we are missing Arabella, and also Bertram)
    Pema Pera: feel free to continue, Mick, and others can join in whenever they feel like!
    Pema Pera: we don't have to speak in turn
    Mickorod Renard: perhaps others may like to build upon my opening?
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Lia's account...

    Lia Rikugun: i started meditating with my boyfriend 10 minutes a day :)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Fefonz Quan: that sounds great Lia!
    Lia Rikugun: yes we flew on a carpet together :)
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Mickorod Renard: wow
    Lia Rikugun: mystical..
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Mickorod Renard: overall I feel a happier person
    Lia Rikugun: actually i didnt have the possibility to go back into every day life, I almost directly went on travel agaoin
    Pema Pera: on your magic carpet?
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Lia Rikugun: continueing a relaxed atmosphere
    Lia Rikugun: continueing to think a lot
    Lia Rikugun: and imagine things happening around me
    Lia Rikugun: questioning

    Mickorod, Lia, and Wol's dream comparison's...


    Mickorod Renard: yes, thinking more is something I have noticed in me
    Lia Rikugun: keeping the brain busy
    Lia Rikugun: ;)
    Mickorod Renard: but not so cluttered thinking
    Lia Rikugun: oh and dreaming, thinking about my dreams
    Mickorod Renard: I am sleeping better
    Lia Rikugun: yeay
    Paradise Tennant: did you dream about the retreat lia :)
    Lia Rikugun: no i didnt
    Lia Rikugun: well i dont remember at least
    Wol Euler: I did, many times :) Still do sometimes
    Eos Amaterasu: Lia, I was reading a log where you described being more awake in your dreams
    Lia Rikugun: nice!
    Lia Rikugun: yes eos this happened twice
    Pema Pera: can you tell us about your dreams, Wol?
    Lia Rikugun: 3 days ago
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at wol do you remember them wol ..what were they about :)
    Eos Amaterasu wonders if he's a figment of Wol's dream
    Wol Euler: mostly about Malta itself, driving around, stone, caves, sparse dry-land vegetation
    Wol Euler: the sea
    Wol Euler: once about a circle of friends meditating :)
    Pema Pera: it sure was a magical surrounding . . . .
    Pema Pera: oh, how nice, Wol !!
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,lovely Wol
    Lia Rikugun: who were these friends?
    Lia Rikugun: us?
    Wol Euler: some were PaB, mostly not.
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Wol Euler: RL and SL people occur together in my dreams
    Lia Rikugun: what was the meditation about, maybe we need to try it out! :)
    Wol Euler: I didn'T write that down, I'd have to try to remember it. I think it was about Bert's chanting
    Lia Rikugun: ah cool
    Pema Pera: !!
    Agatha Macbeth: A nightmare then?
    Paradise Tennant: in the cave that was very powerful :)
    Wol Euler: about the vibrations
    Paradise Tennant: nods
    Eos Amaterasu: I think Paradise also did some follow-up on the no-time theme
    Pema Pera: that was memorable, yes, Bert's sonorous voice in a 5500 year old manmade underground dwelling . . .
    Lia Rikugun: brb
    Liza Deischer: (sounds great)
    Eos Amaterasu: literally
    Paradise Tennant: yes .. thought .. reflected on it listened repeatedly to a teaching by dgonsar rinpoche .. and I think I understand the concept sort of :)
    Liza Deischer: yes :-)
    Paradise Tennant: I had a dream about malta too but was very confused .. I was both the farmer and the dog .. woke .. very disoriented :)
    Paradise Tennant: and very thirsty :)
    Wol Euler: did you rescue yourself?
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Paradise Tennant: godwin has negotiated with him to have him run free during the day and only go back to the bunker at night :)
    Pema Pera: rescue yourself from yourself?
    Paradise Tennant: smiels
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Wol Euler: good :)
    Pema Pera: btw, has everybody heard that we will go back to Malta in two years, January 2012? See http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Retreats
    Wol Euler: wb gaya
    Liza Deischer: wb gaya
    Wol Euler makes a note in the calendar
    Gaya Ethaniel: ty :)
    Mickorod Renard: I enjoyed discovering that in RL we were all pretty normal people, cos I had a suspician we might be wierd when we met
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Fefonz Quan: (which note wol?)
    Wol Euler: about the Jan 2012 retreat
    Liza Deischer: lol mick
    Wol Euler: not that far away...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Fefonz Quan: aha
    Wol Euler points to "no time"
    Paradise Tennant: smiles

    Pema speaks...intimating a sharpening of Play as Being...

    Pema Pera: for me, the Malta retreat was very helpful and inspiring for my own practice, it brought several strands of explorations together, which I continued to follow in more detail during the weeks after the retreat, including the kind of sallies that Lia led us on
    Fefonz Quan: Mick, maybe we are all non-normal, but in a similar way...
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Mickorod Renard: he he maybe Fef
    Wol Euler chuckles at Mick's expectations
    Paradise Tennant: very compatible group normal or non normal :)
    Lia Rikugun: back
    Pema Pera: most of the time, I hardly have any chance to talk with others about my personal practice, because it is such an amalgam of elements from various traditions, plus some aspects I just stumbled upon myself
    Pema Pera: but little by little, I've found opportunities to share some aspects during retreats
    Pema Pera: (even in dreams, like the ones Lia and I had :-)
    Mickorod Renard: fantastic Pema
    Mickorod Renard: are there any in particular that you can share with us Pema?
    Pema Pera: Also, after the retreat, Stim and I have had rather detailed in-depth discussions about what PaB is and can be, more than we had been able to have before
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Mickorod Renard: wow
    Pema Pera: we are beginning to see some contours that were not clear initially
    Liza Deischer: (curious :))
    Mickorod Renard: mmm yes
    Pema Pera: hard to put into just a few words
    Lia Rikugun: tell us
    Pema Pera: I can try to say something, but for the bigger picture I suggest y'all come join us for the San Francisco retreat in one and a half month
    Wol Euler: :)
    Pema Pera: where Stim will be present the whole time too
    Wol Euler: five more chances to win teh lottery ...
    Pema Pera: and Stim and I can share our deepening understanding then in real time in RL
    Pema Pera: hehehe @ Wol
    Mickorod Renard: is it in school hols?
    Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Retrea...-04_California
    Pema Pera: April 18-24
    Agatha Macbeth: Probably yes, Mick
    Mickorod Renard: ooooh,,interesting
    Mickorod Renard: need my secretary
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh, perhaps not then...
    Agatha Macbeth: Looking at the wrong dates
    Pema Pera: the bottom line is that both Stim and I are feeling quite strongly now that PaB can really be a viable alternative for more traditional forms of meditation/contemplation, even though it bypasses in some sense the years of meditative training required in more traditional approaches
    Pema Pera: IF
    Pema Pera: and there is a strong if
    Pema Pera: IF we are willing to really go all out in an intensely personal exploration
    Pema Pera: trading in the years of sitting on a cushion for an intensely felt personal exploration in daily life
    Mickorod Renard: is that intensely or insanely?
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Both
    Liza Deischer: you will need tools to do that
    Pema Pera: and Lia's sallies have at least the potential to hold a key to that kind of exploration
    Pema Pera: and other tools will be developed or better: will appear
    Pema Pera: there seems to be an internal dynamic in PaB
    Liza Deischer: sallies?
    Mickorod Renard: yes, that was very interesting,,lia's trips
    Pema Pera: in Malta, too, all kind of aspects "appeared"
    Paradise Tennant: was thinking it would be great to have series of sessions on the book ... too .. it would make a great introduction to the kind of exploration that we each should be attempting :)
    Wol Euler: ((I've greeted RudeNoob1))
    Liza Deischer: teh book?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks Wol was doing so :)
    Pema Pera: neither Eos nor I had anything particularly planned for Malta, yet everything appeared spontaneously, in an interesting kind of natural harmony
    Pema Pera: which book, Paradise?
    Paradise Tennant: Stim's book
    Mickorod Renard: wok?
    Pema Pera: we are having that, in the Kira time workshop -- if you mean the TSK book
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pema Pera: Time, Space, Knowledge?
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Paradise Tennant: needs to spend more time on the website
    Pema Pera: yes, that has been ongoing from September; will end in a month -- but we can follow up in some way if there is interest
    Pema Pera: Fefonz and Yaku and Eos, do you want to share some of your experiences, after the retreat?
    RudeNoob1: well this is awkward.
    Wol Euler raises an eyebrow. Why?

    Eos's account...


    Eos Amaterasu: I think the back and forth of SL and RL is part of what I've been experiencing
    Eos Amaterasu: Malta is a vivid memory in the past, but pieces of it have a timeless quality that I keep re-encountering
    Eos Amaterasu: Also personally I feel more on a journey, inside transiency and transparency, in and to a kind of openness
    Eos Amaterasu: I've also been inspired by Lia's pioneering PaB work :-)
    Lia Rikugun: ?? what did i do?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: with a kind of visualization, reverie
    Eos Amaterasu: it's a new way of exploring, which I have not done much of in the past, comparatively
    Eos Amaterasu: playing with visualized, imagined, somehow perceived reality
    Eos Amaterasu: walking down that staircase
    Lia Rikugun: pema suggested that :)
    Eos Amaterasu: putting that out, and then seeing what comes back
    Eos Amaterasu: and something does come back
    Eos Amaterasu: being is plastic
    Pema Pera: (but it was your dream in which I suggested that, Lia :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: see what I mean?
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Pema Pera: very plastic!
    Pema Pera: enchanting visualization seems to be a direction that PaB is offering, naturally appearing in our RL sessions . . . .
    SophiaSharon Larnia: can you describe plastic?
    Eos Amaterasu: responsive
    Pema Pera: malleable
    Mickorod Renard: what sort of objectives to you hope we may encounter in this sort of meditation Pema?
    Pema Pera: no objectives :-)
    Pema Pera: but many possible perspectives!
    Agatha Macbeth grins
    Pema Pera: there is a strong devotional quality that comes with these sallies
    Eos Amaterasu: if you actively investigate, put something out, more comes back than you might expect
    Pema Pera: a willingness to follow the unknown
    Pema Pera: as Lia is a master in
    Pema Pera: (including tracing unknown chat logs that have not yet been posted :-P )
    Wol Euler: heh
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Wol Euler: I've greeted RudeNoob2 too.
    Mickorod Renard: is this a sort of awake dream state with perhaps some of those qualities where the mind works free of its confinements?
    Bertram Jacobus: sryy - i forgot ... :-(
    Liza Deischer: hi Bert :-)
    Paradise Tennant: hiya betram :)
    Mickorod Renard: hi bert
    Agatha Macbeth: Yo Berti
    Pema Pera: well, the challenge is to not try to classify or shoehorn, but to leave it open as to what it is -- not easy, but we can try
    Lia Rikugun: (sorry will have to go, have some friends over :) yaku is here too actually)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Bertram :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Bertram!
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: bye lia
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good night Lia :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wow have fun guys :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i also have to go, take care everyone
    Pema Pera: Oh what fun, Lia!
    Pema Pera: bye Yaku!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good night Yakuzza :)
    Wol Euler: bye yaku, enjoy
    Eos Amaterasu: bye Lia
    Eos Amaterasu: bye yaku
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Yaku
    Qt Core: bye
    Agatha Macbeth: Night Lia
    Pema Pera: Fefonz, do you want to comment on your after-Malta-life?
    Stim Morane: bye Lia, Yaku
    Mickorod Renard: nite yaku
    Fefonz Quan: bye Lia, Yaku!
    Paradise Tennant: tc yaku :)
    Mickorod Renard: bye Lia
    Paradise Tennant: bye lia
    Mickorod Renard: Hi cal
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Cal
    Liza Deischer: bye lia
    Liza Deischer: bye Yaku
    Fefonz Quan: hey Bert
    Bertram Jacobus: *smile ashamed* ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Calvino :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bert and Cal :)
    Paradise Tennant: hiya cal :)
    Liza Deischer: hi Cal

    Bertram's account...


    Pema Pera: Or do you want to say something about your experiences after Malta, Bertram? Most of us have already gotten a chance to talk -- and then we will throw the floor open for everyone else for comments, questions, ideas, perspectives.
    Bertram Jacobus: ok
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (I'll be afk for a while all, brb)
    Bertram Jacobus: it was very inspiring for me ...
    Bertram Jacobus: and i took very nice impressions with me
    Bertram Jacobus: still enriched by them
    Bertram Jacobus: met very nice people, who were seious and friendly
    Bertram Jacobus: serious*
    Bertram Jacobus: was a great experience
    Bertram Jacobus: look forward to stuttgart ...
    Bertram Jacobus: not sure but i hope
    Bertram Jacobus: am thankful
    Bertram Jacobus: that's all :-)
    Mickorod Renard: will Stutgart be in english?
    Wol Euler: depends who comes.
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: probably!
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Wol Euler: if only germans attend, then we'll do it in german
    Liza Deischer: I suggest Dutch :D
    Wol Euler: otherwise english
    Fefonz Quan: I hope it will mick!
    Bertram Jacobus: multilingual i guess ;-)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles maybe dutch english and german :) we would all learn
    Fefonz Quan: fdsfds
    Mickorod Renard: perhaps total silence,,international then
    Wol Euler: (fef is having extreme delay again, I've been IMing him)
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    RudeNoob1: i like black people. Is there something wrong with me?
    Fefonz Quan: i hope its in english, i think we already had enough german in malta :)
    Wol Euler: once more and you're banned, RudeNoob1
    Fefonz Quan: I apologize for being a little unattentive here, it seems i get just part of the conversation due to comm. issues
    RudeNoob1: it was serious question.. though this was supposed to be an understanding group
    Bertram Jacobus: may be RudeNoob1 p : may be better to like all equally ... ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: ("wrong") :o)
    RudeNoob2: tbh, i think ebony women are the best women around no offence to the others
    Bertram Jacobus: *schwupps* :o)
    Wol Euler: so.
    Liza Deischer: !!!

    Wol's account...Here an emotional experience is shared that has not come up in the Play as Being group before this retreat. As it turns out, this is an experience that is shared by several retreat participants. Several possible remedies to integrating intense retreat experiences are offered by the group.

    It is this support that makes Play as Being what it is...


    Wol Euler: I had a different and less pleasant return to "normality" actually.
    Bertram Jacobus: what an ununderstanding group ! :o)
    Pema Pera: please tell us, Wol !
    Wol Euler: the week after the retreat was fine, but following that I slipped into a steep and deep depression.
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. oh yes wol ... :-/
    Wol Euler: I talked about that with Bert and Calvino on my Friday session two weeks back, and with Maxine on the weekend
    Paradise Tennant: ouch wol sorry to hear that
    Wol Euler: Wol Euler: I fell into a pretty deep pit of despair and self-loathing :) Maxine Walden: ah...sounds very painful and debilitating perhaps Wol Euler: it was pretty grim, yes. Maxine Walden: do you think it had anything to do with aftermath from the retreat, rebound phenomenon or something of the like? Wol Euler: exactly that, Maxine, it was a delayed effect of the retreat Wol Euler: comparing the experience there to my life here. Wol Euler: it felt absurd and hopeless to try to achieve that clarity in my RL Wol Euler: and I condemned myself for being so weak and unable
    Fefonz Quan: oh, sorry to hear that Wol
    Wol Euler: talking about it helped greatly.
    Wol Euler: as did finding out that this kind of a let-down after a positive retreat experience is actually fairly common
    Paradise Tennant: smiles talking can be very helpful :)
    Pema Pera: very common indeed, Wol !
    Liza Deischer: it can be
    Agatha Macbeth: You'll get by with a little help from your friends :)
    Wol Euler: so I wanted to talk about htat here, in case anyone else felt it and thought they were "doing something wrong" or whatever.
    Mickorod Renard: I think you picked up on my feeling of loss from returning from the retreat wol, that was very kind of you
    Fefonz Quan: yes, the hangover afer the high...
    Wol Euler: I certainly thought that I'd "failed" somehow after the retreat
    Wol Euler nods to Mick.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I noticed Wol feeling pretty low soon after the retreat and commented that such experience isn't uncommon. Of course, I wasn't entirely sure if this was the case but suggested as I had similar experiences, both after retreats or hectic long-haul business trips, in terms of intensity and disorienting effects.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not a teacher or an experienced practitioner - so wasn't advising Wol what to do but pointing out potential instructiveness of such experience in that one may need to make some adjustments in daily life to have more "spaciousness" in terms of after-retreats. I heard about some decluttering going on at Wol's so maybe it was part of it :)
    Wol Euler smiles and nods. Thank you, Gaya, you were the first to ask :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: *hugs*
    Wol Euler: did I enjoy the retreat? yes.
    Wol Euler: would I sign up for another, even after that pit of despair? yes.
    Bertram Jacobus: often the best suffer most - why may that be ? ...
    Wol Euler smiles and shrugs
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Pema Pera: is there any advice you would give future first-time retreaters, Wol, as to what to possibly expect and how to deal with that?
    Mickorod Renard: sensitiveness, a lovely quality
    Bertram Jacobus: yes mick, but hard to learn with it
    Liza Deischer: nods
    Bertram Jacobus: but may be most effective at the same time
    Fefonz Quan thinks it is one down side of SL-RL retreats, in most retreats you can meet in RL wirh some of the people afterwards, while on our retreat getting back to SL mode can be very lonely
    Wol Euler: yes: know that it is possible if not actually *probable* that you will suffer some kind of backlash when you return to "normality"
    Wol Euler: that is part of it too!
    Wol Euler: I think it is very important to have a community back in your outside life, to return to.
    Wol Euler: missing that was a great part of my distress
    Bertram Jacobus: i consider friends as important generally
    Wol Euler: feeling socially incompetent
    Eos Amaterasu: SL community will have to do?
    Pema Pera: (now that we're in our second hour, anybody should feel free to join in the conversation)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles . no one is socially competent .. when it comes down to it really .
    Mickorod Renard: I have reflected on this, and I have pondered on whether I am becoming isolated from general folk around me, because they dont share the same interests and as such cannot join in what i believe is an interesting dialogue
    Wol Euler: yes, any community would do, I think, but you (the future first-timer) must use it.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, so maybe there are things you will do now to develop that, Wol? For me your experience paralleled times I could think of when I became acutely aware of a need for integration... changes ...
    Liza Deischer: it is not much different in rl
    Eliza Madrigal: and began to do those things... like it shines a light on things you've just been coping with...
    Wol Euler: true :)
    Wol Euler: I realized that my RL had become quite shallow, SL has taken over much of my emotional life. I've let contacts outside SL slip
    Wol Euler: yes, eliza, that's exactly it.
    Liza Deischer: but as Mick already said, you change
    Liza Deischer: so your contacts will change too
    Liza Deischer: if you choose to be in a group like this, examining yourself, it happens
    Liza Deischer: i guess it is important to realize
    Mickorod Renard: I have found in my reintergration with the RL I am sort of intergrated but like an outside observer too
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Liza Deischer: yes, I know the feeling :-)
    Qt Core: been that way for many years, mick
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: YOu're no longer in just mouselook in RL
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think giving an option to participants to take off a few days to a week in SL if anyone needs to have someo quiet time to reflect and let experiences sink in.
    Paradise Tennant: most of the people on my friends lists I have met in rl .. I very much consider sl friends to be rl friends too :) on some levels from some perspectives .. we are all richer for the international connections :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) Eos
    Liza Deischer: great comparison Eos :-)
    Wol Euler: :)))
    Pema Pera: yes indeed!
    Gaya Ethaniel: (-- is my suggestion.)
    Pema Pera: we learn new degrees of freedom, like camera positions :)
    Eos Amaterasu: An SL retreat, Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel: After a retreat whether RL or SL, I like having minimal things to do in terms of obligation ...
    Fefonz Quan: I would suspect those effects might become even harder with SL retreats
    Gaya Ethaniel: So at PaB, those with GoC or other duties can have options to ask for replacement etc.
    Gaya Ethaniel: If needed of course ... it's all individual.
    Eos Amaterasu: Trick is to find the "specialness" o f retreats in ordinary life
    Mickorod Renard: obligations are something I am trying to avoid at the moment
    Wol Euler: I would strongly encourage retreaters to try to have a quiet and slow first week back. Didn't work for me, I was at work the day after (sunday)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Agatha Macbeth: I try to avoid 'em all the time Mick ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Eos Amaterasu: San Francisco retreat will play with retreat life/"normal" life boundaries
    Eos Amaterasu: as an "urban retreat"
    Pema Pera: yes, it will be interesting to see whether that makes a difference
    Pema Pera: I'm so glad you are talking about your experiences, Wol, thank you very much indeed -- and we should make sure to tell future retreaters to not be shy to talk about similar experiences, whatever they may be
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now all :)
    Eliza Madrigal: One thing Wol and the group one day discussed, was that the 'drop' feeling also speaks to the value of the retreats and time in shared company... so in a way, though it feels terrible... maybe almost a good terrible
    Paradise Tennant: in a way .. even if there is a let down coming back to the regular work rl reality . it is kind of like .. you have a cupboard of little treasure that you can take out and reflect on in quiet moments that help :)
    Wol Euler nods
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Sharon :)
    Wol Euler: bye sharon, take care
    Agatha Macbeth: Night SSL
    Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Sharon :)
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Sophia!
    Pema Pera: nobody is unique, for better or worse, these reactions are just all human
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
    Mickorod Renard: I think we formed a bond,,that is always a risk
    Stim Morane: Bye Sharon
    Paradise Tennant: waves bye sharon
    Liza Deischer: nite sharon
    Mickorod Renard: bye Sophia
    Qt Core: bye sharon
    Pema Pera: yes!!! @ ELiza & Paradise
    Gilles Kuhn: i think all human are unique pema more a organism or a thought is complex more it is unique
    Qt Core: all uniques but sharing traits with many
    Pema Pera: (the opposite of a great truth is a great truth, Gilles :-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Mickorod Renard: the retreat was good, but I never managed an organism
    Gilles Kuhn: in my logic it is not so but i deem truth for me has only significance in a logical formal system apart of that its always relative unique in sort ;-)
    Eos Amaterasu could have sworn otherwise, Mick :-)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Wol Euler: ah, mick, now you tell us
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Agatha Macbeth smiles
    Eos Amaterasu leans over and stares into Mick's eyes and asks, "are you alive?"
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    Pema Pera: (an in-joke, needs explanation for the non-Maltezer crowd here! (orginating in the internet pizza place))
    Wol Euler: :)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Pema Pera: ((involving space travel)))
    Eos Amaterasu: (opening scene of Battlestar Galactica)
    Mickorod Renard: naturally
    Eos Amaterasu: discovering different ways of noticing we're alive, and how we're alive
    Pema Pera hearing faint echoes of "you are STUPID" . . . .
    Fefonz Quan: The best scene in the show, it goes downhill from there Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: Hopefully that's not true of us here :-)
    Mickorod Renard: I still have problems with formal meditation,,but I seem to do a form of meaditation during my regualr activities
    Paradise Tennant: smiles yes same here .. while waiting in line .. in the bath tub .. just find the still spot inside :)
    Mickorod Renard: rather than getting frustrated with this i am accepting it and letting it develope
    Wol Euler: mmmhmm
    Liza Deischer: sounds great mick
    Pema Pera: that's key, Mick!
    Bertram Jacobus: age of aquarius ...
    Mickorod Renard: I am an age and an aquarian
    Bertram Jacobus: perfect !? :-)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Wol Euler: the man of the moment
    Wol Euler: re-re-wb fef :)
    Bertram Jacobus: sometimes it's only a question of remembering
    Fefonz Quan: (hi, please ignore my rerebootings...)
    Paradise Tennant: yes ..
    Mickorod Renard: I would like to say, even though I can offer no reason why,,that i feel a stronger person after the retreat
    Agatha Macbeth: Get a new PC Fonz ;-)
    Wol Euler smiles @ Mick
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at Mick ..
    Mickorod Renard: and I thank you all for that
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello again Eluiza :)
    Liza Deischer: it shows mick
    Wol Euler: awwww <3
    Bertram Jacobus: feels happy becuase of mick's words ... (not only because of them, but because of them, too) :-)
    Pema Pera: great, Mick, and thank you too for your inspiration in the retreat, for all of us!
    Liza Deischer: wb eliza
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Pema Pera: and especially your openness
    Liza Deischer: bye fef
    Paradise Tennant: yes !
    Paradise Tennant: bye fef :)
    Stim Morane: bye Fef
    Mickorod Renard: bye Fef
    Agatha Macbeth: Shalom Fonz
    Pema Pera: allowing yourself to feel happier and stronger without feeling the need to escape into an explanation
    Pema Pera: a need to nail it down
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, another interesting variation on my name Agatha :) Thanks .. couldn't tell if I was coming or going for a minute :)
    Fefonz Quan: did i say i go? or should i do so according to the comments ;-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Or staying?
    Wol Euler: no, please stay :)
    Paradise Tennant: no please stay sorry my mistake
    Mickorod Renard: thats true pema,,that is also something i am taking into rl, i dont need to justify everything
    Wol Euler: true wisdom.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: i did not say bye fef dear friend ... :-))
    Agatha Macbeth: 'Should I stay or should I go'...
    Paradise Tennant: lovely mick
    Liza Deischer: you're not visible fef
    Agatha Macbeth: Is he here?
    Eliza Madrigal: you gotta let me know.... ;-) Ag
    Liza Deischer: if he isn't we are talking ot a ghost :-)
    Fefonz Quan: who? me?
    Mickorod Renard: yikes,,sl is haunted
    Agatha Macbeth: You like the Clash then Eliza?
    Pema Pera: interestingly, if we can let ourselves be really open for nine seconds, we can do it for much longer too: the first step is the hardest
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. you fef ;-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes you Fonz
    Agatha Macbeth: Snap
    Bertram Jacobus: |||||
    Fefonz Quan: i am sitting here seeing you all
    Bertram Jacobus: (5)
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Agatha Macbeth: Where?
    Liza Deischer: Ah but your name is still visibel
    Pema Pera: cheshire Fef
    Eliza Madrigal sees Fef
    Agatha Macbeth: HG wells wrote a book about him
    Pema Pera: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: zoom him and see him @ all who don't see him
    Pema Pera: a new religion . . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
    Liza Deischer: yes, see him now
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Now ya see him, now ya don't
    Fefonz Quan: seeing is everything ...
    Mickorod Renard: I see him now
    Agatha Macbeth: Being seeing?
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Or sseing Being?
    Bertram Jacobus: seeing is nice ...
    Agatha Macbeth: seeing even
    Liza Deischer: or seeing beeing
    Bertram Jacobus: in which way ever
    Liza Deischer: oh shoot, too late
    Agatha Macbeth: Or qwer43567
    Agatha Macbeth: There is no spoon
    Bertram Jacobus: 43567 ...
    Wol Euler: but there is a spork.
    Eliza Madrigal: :) hahaha
    Agatha Macbeth: There is?
    Scathach Rhiadra slips quietly away
    Paradise's experience...


    Paradise Tennant: one thing I found from going to the retreat and then having time away afterward is that the stepping back allowed me to see that alot of regular day to day life we think is so important .. is really not so important .. found I was able to be less serious about certain things .. that before I would really prioritize :) that would be a gift I would like to keep :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Where?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good night Scath :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you Scath!! Bye
    Agatha Macbeth: C ya Scath
    Wol Euler: 'night scath
    Mickorod Renard: nite scath
    Paradise Tennant: good nite scath
    Wol Euler nods to Paradise. Very true
    Fefonz Quan: night scath
    Pema Pera: yes, Paradise, I felt that too -- each retreat gives me a strong reminder that way
    Mickorod Renard: yes, super Paradise
    Agatha Macbeth: She's gone Fonz :)
    Pema Pera: night Scath!
    Liza Deischer: the perspective changes
    Fefonz Quan: (shh)
    Pema Pera: quick poll: how many of us here are considering attending the coming PaB retreat in San Francisco? I know of Gaya, Eos, Eliza, Stim, me; anyone else?
    Wol Euler: not unless I win the lottery, alas.
    Wol Euler: but I wold love to
    Mickorod Renard: I was a bit concerned there would be a honeymoon period followed by disalusionment after the retreat,,but on the conrary, i feel more hunger
    Agatha Macbeth: The only good poll is a deed poll
    Fefonz Quan seconds Wol
    Qt Core: too complicated for me
    Paradise Tennant: cannot take the time .. :) alas
    Paradise Tennant: would love to ! too !
    Mickorod Renard: I may not cope with being in a city , and i doubt i can stretch the funds for the flights etc
    Liza expresses a concern applicable to the rest of the group who can not go on retreats, and possible solutions...


    Liza Deischer: I have a question of which I don't know if it is a question :-)
    Wol Euler: ask it and find out :)
    Eliza Madrigal: You know at first I wasn't fond of the idea of an urban retreat... but find myself more curious to see... for exactly the things we talked about today... rl/sl/meditation life interplay and integration, etc
    Eliza Madrigal: (oh, sorry Liza... listening)
    Liza Deischer: a lot seem to be in a retreat or going to a retreat
    Agatha Macbeth: Perhaps we have an answer which isn't an answer ;-)
    Liza Deischer: but some don't
    Liza Deischer: I don't know how that is going to effect the group
    Wol Euler giggles. Nice, aggers.
    Agatha Macbeth: You know me :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Liza Deischer: but I'm one that isn't able too
    Mickorod Renard: malta was a mix
    Mickorod Renard: both rural quiet and towns
    Liza Deischer: to :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: Perhaps short weekend retreats done RL solo but SL together
    Gaya Ethaniel is already thinking about how to duck questions from Pema ^^;;;
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Pema Pera hopes that Liza's typo was her real intention speaking :-)
    Wol Euler: your subconscious wants you to go :)
    Liza Deischer: oh, I would like to, but no chance I'm afraid
    Paradise Tennant: weekend retreats are a great idea
    Eliza Madrigal: there are those who might choose to organize a retreat where they are, too
    Bertram Jacobus: why is that liza ?
    Pema Pera: Liza, I hope that those who can go will enrich those who can't go with their reports and that in turn those who can't go will help the others to integrate and reintegrate
    Wol Euler: yes, that's the cheap way to get to attend one!
    Liza Deischer: it is not about cheap
    Wol Euler: I know :)
    Liza Deischer: (that too, but anyway.....)
    Wol Euler waves a small flag with the word "Joke" printed on it.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Liza Deischer: It is a question and I don't know the answer myself
    Agatha Macbeth: 42
    Fefonz Quan: 43
    Paradise Tennant: lol the answer agatha :)
    Wol Euler: Archmage said something like that, as we were talking about the retreat a month ago.
    Mickorod Renard: well, I guess all the retreats are an exploration
    Mickorod Renard: and perhaps an adventure
    Eliza Madrigal: I've thought a bit about this too... come to the conclusion that if I'd never attended a retreat/never planned to, I'd still find pab exciting and perhaps enhanced by the depth the rl interractions bring back... stretching, in a way
    Bertram Jacobus: but didn't you do other retreats before liza ?
    Liza Deischer: it is not about the retreat, it is about the group
    Liza Deischer: you build up something together
    Liza Deischer: that is only shared by the ones that were there or have a similar experience within the group
    Fefonz Quan: now i should really go to sleep, good night all :)
    Wol Euler: you worry that there might be a two-tier system developing?
    Liza Deischer: bye fonz
    Eliza Madrigal nods... and each person finds their comfort levels... agree Liza... important
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good night Fefonz :)
    Bertram Jacobus: nighty nite fef
    Wol Euler: goodnight fef
    Eos Amaterasu: 'night fef
    Mickorod Renard: nite nite Fef
    Stim Morane: by fonz
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Fonzie
    Pema Pera: nite Fef!
    Liza Deischer: yes Wol
    Eliza Madrigal: Nite Fef :)
    Liza Deischer: and maybe I'm wrong
    Paradise Tennant: I think regardless of circumstance or constraints you can use the concept of retreats and many of the same structures that make up one at home .. interjected with interreaction online .. would not be as personable but still would provide a basis for exploration :)
    Fefonz Quan: (and i'll go over the log to see all teh lines i've missed in the last 2 hours)
    Wol Euler: heh
    Paradise Tennant: bye fef for real this time :)
    Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
    Bertram Jacobus: _/!\_
    Wol Euler: it is a good question, I think.
    Eos Amaterasu: Hopefully all guardians can do RL retreats one way or the other (or equiv)
    Liza Deischer: I ask, because Pema has been talking about seeing the contours of Pab
    Eliza Madrigal: good point too, Paradise, and yes agree Wol
    Wol Euler: perhaps Play as Being-in-SL needs some active practices and exercises, as we did.
    Liza Deischer: and the intensity it takes
    Paradise Tennant: yes wol !
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Pema Pera: interesting point, Wol !
    Mickorod Renard: yes wol
    Wol Euler: so that there could be an analog here in SL to the intensity and practicality of what we do in RL
    Pema Pera: yes
    Wol Euler: guided exercises, maybe
    Liza Deischer: yes could be
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eos Amaterasu wonders if you need to keep the RL in a retreat mode at the same time as the communal SL retreat mode
    Liza Deischer: but I had a little conversation with Eliza about our experiment, and actually I missed the group-feeling
    Eos Amaterasu: ie, time commitment
    Pema Pera: the one problem is that it is far harder to have feedback, though -- especially with newbies who may wonder in and get unexpected reactions to visualizations, say
    Mickorod Renard: without wishing to complicate timetables,,I think that wud need to be done in a more private sl setting
    Eos Amaterasu: SL retreat land
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: there are prob many ways to go about it...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Time to go :) Nice seeing everyone. Enjoy your weekend!
    Mickorod Renard: nite gaya
    Wol Euler: bye gaya, take care
    Qt Core: bye Gaya
    Mickorod Renard: and u Gaya
    Agatha Macbeth: BFN Gaya
    Stim Morane: bye Gaya
    Eliza Madrigal: :)Gaya
    Liza Deischer: bye gaya
    Liza Deischer: that group-feeling may be a matter of time, I don't know
    Pema Pera: I'll have to go too -- taking a train from Princeton to New York, then dinner, then four hours from now I have my goc session :)
    Eos Amaterasu must go; bye
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pema :)
    Liza Deischer: bye Pema
    Stim Morane: bye Pema
    Wol Euler: bye pema, enjoy the evening
    Qt Core: bye Pema, Eos
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Eos :)
    Paradise Tennant: good bye pema eos :)
    Mickorod Renard: bye Pema
    Wol Euler: bye eos, take care
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Pem, Eos
    Pema Pera: great two hours, thank you all !
    Mickorod Renard: Bye Eos
    Mickorod Renard: Thankyou
    Pema Pera: Liza, we can take up your question at a later session
    Pema Pera: it's a very important one
    Wol Euler nods
    Liza Deischer: okay pema
    Pema Pera: bfn
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... certainly may fit in with the idea of SL retreats, too
    Mickorod Renard: I need to go too,,nite nite all,,be well
    Eliza Madrigal: a longer stretch for a meditation/vizualization then discussion... etc
    Wol Euler: bye mick, sleep well
    Qt Core: 'night Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: Nite Mick
    Stim Morane: bye Mick
    Agatha Macbeth: Tata Mick
    Paradise Tennant: bye mick nite nite
    Eliza Madrigal: My eyes are stingy.... think I need a smaller monitor :) Thanks everyone! Nice session!
    Paradise Tennant: good nite eliza
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Wol Euler: turn down the brightness :)
    Agatha Macbeth: C ya Eliza :))
    Wol Euler: goodnight eliza, take care
    Liza Deischer: nite eliza
    Agatha Macbeth: Get a bigger one!
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes... will do that Wol! Good idea
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Stim Morane: Bye, Eliza
    Wol Euler: less brighness, more contrast
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye everyone *Hugs*
    Stim Morane: I too must go. Bye everyone!
    Eliza Madrigal takes note of Wol's advice :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Stim
    Wol Euler: 'night stim, enjoy the weekened
    Paradise Tennant: good nite stime :)
    Liza Deischer: bye Stim
    Qt Core: you know, since i bought a bigger monitor i have problem when i stop looking at it, focusing problems as i got used to the larger angle
    Wol Euler: huh
    Agatha Macbeth: How big is yours QT? ;-)
    Qt Core: 22 16:10
    Agatha Macbeth: Whoa
    Agatha Macbeth: Nanu nanu
    Qt Core: after 17 years with a faithfull 17 crt it was time ;-)
    Wol Euler: wow
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah, CRTs
    Bertram Jacobus: to me, liza, the group is mostly a kind of "helper" , like sangha . and no difference in that whether somebody was at a retreat or not . the only thing to me here may be : it made my impressions even a bit more intense ...
    Wol Euler: mind you, monitors last forever.
    Agatha Macbeth: Some do....
    Paradise Tennant: smiles very good point bert :)
    Liza Deischer: that could be the difference Bertram
    Qt Core: i still have it around... can't find.... the strenght to move those 22 Kg :-)
    Agatha Macbeth grins at Bert
    Wol Euler: I think there is a risk of a two-tier feeling developing, though. We should consider now to keep the larger group integrated
    Agatha Macbeth: You can do it QT
    Liza Deischer: sometimes it is a slowly process
    Liza Deischer: maybe not leaving people out, but keeping poeple out, if you get my drift
    Paradise Tennant: maybe have an sl portion to every retreat so everyone gets a chance to be there for some part of it
    Paradise Tennant: like a live stream on a music jam
    Wol Euler: I thought rather that those who don't go on retreats feel "left behind"
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Qt Core: or just people feeling out
    Liza Deischer: yes wol, I guess we need to be aware of the possibility
    Wol Euler: I'd been thinking about your question, and said "but I don't feel privileged" -- and realized that this thought is the EXPRESSION of privilege :)
    Bertram Jacobus: i can't surpress one thought : "matter of perspective" ...
    Liza Deischer: sure Bert
    Wol Euler: like a rich white male saying "but it makes no difference that I am a rich white male"
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Wol Euler: wars are fought over perspectives, Bert :)
    Liza Deischer: that is a nice subtle comparison
    Bertram Jacobus: yes wol. and there are also people who did not fight because of it
    Wol Euler: of course
    Liza Deischer: I don't think that is the point Bert
    Liza Deischer: (was that really english or dutch?)
    Bertram Jacobus: i understand
    Bertram Jacobus: which language ever that has been
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Liza Deischer: I just felt the need to mention it, not because I'm scared for it, but if it happens, it happens slowly
    Liza Deischer: and then suddenly you wake up and feel things have changed and you don't understand why
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: well, we seem to have arrived at a natural end.
    Bertram Jacobus: "ok" - i'll leave - ty all , have a very good time please and - may all beings be happy (!) ...
    Wol Euler: so perhaps it's time for a final round of
    Liza Deischer: yes, I think so too
    Wol Euler: onigokko
    Paradise Tennant: smiles thank you all :) I appreicate the thoughts lol
    Wol Euler: oops
    Wol Euler: sorry
    Wol Euler: stop
    Wol Euler: I thought I was wearing mine
    Agatha Macbeth: HAHAHAHAHA
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Wol Euler: do you have one, paradise?
    Agatha Macbeth: You do feel a fool when.....
    Paradise Tennant: yes but always forget how to spell it so have trouble finding it
    Agatha Macbeth: Two k's Para :)
    Wol Euler: I made a folder in "body parts" called "standard wol" and put it in there, with my favourite eyes and skin
    Wol Euler: so I just put on the folder
    Paradise Tennant: ahh good idea
    Agatha Macbeth: Is thetre a 'standard Wol'?
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Agatha Macbeth: there
    Wol Euler: the red shaggy hair, my other favourite skin, onigokko, a facelight
    Wol Euler: and this shape of course
    Wol Euler: onigokko
    Agatha Macbeth: No clothes?
    Wol Euler: nope, I change too often for htem to be favourited
    Wol Euler: but I have them in folders too
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes, there is that
    Paradise Tennant: suspects wol's closet is much better organized than hers :)
    Wol Euler: it's certainly better organized than my RL closets!
    Agatha Macbeth: Or mine....
    Wol Euler: stop
    Agatha Macbeth: Phew
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Wol Euler: thank you, my dears, that was great fun as always.
    Agatha Macbeth: Hmmm
    Paradise Tennant: yes good nite all :) be well :) namaste !
    Wol Euler: I should go too, work tomorrow :/
    Wol Euler: bye paradise, take care
    Wol Euler: goodnight all!
    Liza Deischer: bye paradise, wol
    Qt Core: great session[s], night all
    Agatha Macbeth waves
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Calvino Rabeni: likewise good night
    Liza Deischer: bye QT
    Liza Deischer: cal
    Liza Deischer: bye Gilles
    Liza Deischer: bye cal
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Liza Deischer: Namaste
    Liza Deischer: namaste
    Calvino Rabeni: ****Howlllzzzzzzzz****
    Calvino Rabeni: bye
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Liza Deischer: bye cal
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