2010.03.05 19:00 - Clearing the fog and Making the Time

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal, jumping into a newly open session. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, who was joined by Sharon, Steve, and Strannik.

    We discuss getting to know PaB again, TSK, consciousness, PaB retreat, working group activities, dreams, fear, and awareness.

    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Strannik :)
    Strannik Zipper: Hi!
    Eliza Madrigal: Pleasure to meet you... think this is the first time :)
    Strannik Zipper: I haven't been around much lately - nice to meet you
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I suppose there are many new guardians since you attended regularly
    Eliza Madrigal: How long has it been?
    Strannik Zipper: Yes - I can't keep up!
    Eliza Madrigal: hah
    Strannik Zipper: I was here yesterday
    Strannik Zipper: but then it was a long while before that
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eliza and Strannnik
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon :))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry typo
    Strannik Zipper: Hi Sharon
    Eliza Madrigal: Strannik is a guardian who hasn't been here in a while, aside from yesterday. I was wondering if it felt an entirely new place
    Strannik Zipper: not completely
    Strannik Zipper: for one thing, the old landmark worked
    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI :) I was just reading that, sorry I have a bit of chat lag
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, well glad of that
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha yes
    Eliza Madrigal: so then not eons
    Strannik Zipper: of course I'm having viewer 2 issues
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i didnt like it myself
    Strannik Zipper: they'll fix it
    Eliza Madrigal has no clue and waits to upgrade or try things out til all techie friends are pleased and say 'go'
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Strannik Zipper likes to ride the bleeding edge ;-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: heh
    Eliza Madrigal smiles... intriguing
    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve :)
    Strannik Zipper: Hi Steve
    Eliza Madrigal: Its been a long while since we were in a session together Steve, or at least feels that way
    SophiaSharon Larnia: this isn't my usual time slot either :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I seem to remember sundays
    stevenaia Michinaga: seems there are those that pick up the empty slots...:)
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, I'm not on at night much... Genesis is moving so this spot will be a kind of free for all... hehehe
    stevenaia Michinaga: Have we met, Strannik ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia runs her hand in the ppol and smiles
    Strannik Zipper: I don't think so - nice to meet you
    SophiaSharon Larnia: pool
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, my pleasure
    Eliza Madrigal grins @ Sharon
    stevenaia Michinaga: thank for your hard work Eliza, seems the group organization can be quite a complex ordeal
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hear hear
    stevenaia Michinaga: are you off to Princeton next week?
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, Steve that's nice of you. Thanks (and thanks too Sharon). We all do what we can and I guess I've had more time than most this year, so it is a pleasure really...
    Eliza Madrigal: And yes, heading your way. Will you come for dinner?
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice that each can find such a place in the group
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you are Eliza????
    stevenaia Michinaga: I am considering it
    stevenaia Michinaga: it is always a fun time
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, we're having a working group meeting for 2 days... and Pema invited those near by (smile) for dinner Friday evening
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i am supposed to work, but i think i want to go anyway
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Strannik Zipper: Y'all must be East Coasters!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes we are :))
    Eliza Madrigal: I hope you'll both try :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, Strannik, where do you live?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: where are you Stannik???
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ugh sorry typo again
    stevenaia Michinaga: somewhere down south I suspect
    Strannik Zipper: California
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nice
    stevenaia Michinaga: southern california?
    Eliza Madrigal: Ahhh, nice :)
    Strannik Zipper: Northern
    stevenaia Michinaga: very nice
    Strannik Zipper: SF Bay Area

    :) Strannik realizes there are interesting things in those PaB emails!  

    stevenaia Michinaga: I love northern CA, are you going to the PaB retreat next month?
    Eliza Madrigal will visit California for the first time in April for the pab retreat
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wow theres a PaB retreat there in April :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: you will love it there Eliza
    Strannik Zipper: I really should check that email more often!
    Eliza Madrigal: Seems many people do!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Strannik Zipper: I missed seeing that
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, I think so... hah...
    Eliza Madrigal: On the wiki there is a 'retreat' tab, too
    Eliza Madrigal: http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Retreats
    Eliza Madrigal: So there is information there about it if you'd like to see
    Strannik Zipper: I might try to come up for a day - I can't do the whole week
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I think its structured that toward the end of the week people can join part time...
    Strannik Zipper: I'll have to find out more about that
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :) especially right in your back yard
    Strannik Zipper: ah - its the opposite - must be there at the beginning
    Eliza Madrigal: Ohh
    Eliza Madrigal: Well that makes sense too
    Strannik Zipper: right

    Impromptu interview ...

    Eliza Madrigal: Strannik, what brought you to PaB originally?
    Strannik Zipper: I met Pema many years ago at a retreat
    Strannik Zipper: I was reading some of his website, and discovered this activity
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, great. So you have a contemplative practice
    Eliza Madrigal: ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: so the opposite of most of us, meet him in rl first :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm, the years do go by quickly
    Strannik Zipper: hehehe - exactly
    Eliza Madrigal: they zip by...
    Strannik Zipper: It was actually a TSK retreat, some of which is similar to PAB and Kira
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh!!
    Eliza Madrigal: we're reading TSK bit by bit in the Time Workshop now
    Strannik Zipper: That is a good series - I actually wrote one of the chapters in Light of Knowledge
    stevenaia Michinaga: do they post the log from those sessions Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: Actually its in voice Steve, which is sometimes a bummer being late... but gives it a different feel I guess
    stevenaia Michinaga: aww
    Eliza Madrigal: How interesting Strannik. I'm resisting the urge to ask even more questions... don't want to scare you away. Hah
    Strannik Zipper: I don't scare to easily ;-)
    Strannik Zipper: too
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles.. hoping Strannik will elaborate :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles.. yes me too
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (brb)
    Eliza Madrigal: evocative... What is 'dimensionality' to convey in that context?
    Strannik Zipper: The essay explores the relationship of dimensions of space to the ways of thinking and knowing emboied in them
    Strannik Zipper: er embodied
    Strannik Zipper: It uses the scheme proposed by Jean Gebser in his major work
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm... you know I was listening to one of Steven's audios recently, where he was discussing considering space when letting go of addictive behaviors...
    Eliza Madrigal: moving things around, etc. to change the way one is relating...
    Strannik Zipper: interesting
    SophiaSharon Larnia: googles Jean Gebser
    Eliza Madrigal: very practical.

    Jean Gebster...

    Eliza Madrigal: Spiral dynamics?
    Strannik Zipper: One of the other TSK students has a consulting business where he uses TSK for "inner time management"
    Strannik Zipper: there is some overlap to spiral dynamics, I think
    Eliza Madrigal: Steve, btw, if others would like to read TSK together after the workshop ends I'm sure we could have pab sessions on it... would be really fun
    SophiaSharon Larnia: his work appears to be very open-ended, but have to learn more :)
    Strannik Zipper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Ge..._consciousness
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks
    Strannik Zipper: that section is sort of a nice summary
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thats hwere I am :))
    Eliza Madrigal: Ohhh, fantastic.
    Strannik Zipper: More on TSK here:
    Strannik Zipper: http://tska.info/
    Strannik Zipper: And here is the applied time management aspect:
    Strannik Zipper: http://www.manage-time.com/
    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes people think of contemplative Knowing in a sense of going backwards somehow, but its really interesting to consider that it isn't pre-intellect but hm.... maybe as this page seems to point to a 'next step' of sorts...?
    Strannik Zipper: right - an added dimension is another degree of freedom
    SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting here also to me is the idea of evolutionary progress being different from unfolding awareness
    Strannik Zipper: Of course the guy who took that idea and developed it on steroids is Ken Wilber
    SophiaSharon Larnia: limited by environment... have to give this more thought
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for the links... love the practical applications and will have reading tomorrow :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Sharon, what is the part you were reading?
    Strannik Zipper: Of course Pema *actually understands* time and space :)
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Eliza Madrigal: that might help too I'd imagine....
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the part that says Evidence for Gebser's model, i usually zero on anything with the word evidence it it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: maybe someone can fix my typos today wink wink)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, yes maybe someone will do that ;-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: who claimed te log?
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ;p
    Eliza Madrigal: <---
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Strannik Zipper: typos are an essential part of speaking SLeze
    Eliza Madrigal: I have to say that it has been a gift for Pema to elaborate on some of the ideas in the book when some of us have been confused/stuck... for instance the idea of 'feeding time into time' was really tricky for me
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sleeze ? XD
    Eliza Madrigal: hah... Wol calls typos SL body language
    Strannik Zipper: hahaha
    Eliza Madrigal: that should be in our useful terms guide :)
    Strannik Zipper: indeed
    SophiaSharon Larnia: well, doesnt work for me i always speak SLeze
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (typos)
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm less likely to typo than to mix words around and carve um... incomprehensible sentences

    Sharon's intense dream...

    SophiaSharon Larnia: I had an awful dream this evening, that may be part of it
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh?
    Strannik Zipper: oh dear!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i came here because i didnt know where else to go, you know? clear my head
    Eliza Madrigal: Are we helping?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs... yes!
    Strannik Zipper: were you dreaming about tax audits?
    Eliza Madrigal: ::::breathe::::
    Eliza Madrigal: haha, yes that would do it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: grr no Strannik, but thats next hahaha
    stevenaia Michinaga: now try dropping that (dream)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i just try to read meaning in everything
    SophiaSharon Larnia: drop that idea too
    Eliza Madrigal: ... signless nature of signs
    Strannik Zipper: letting things be as they are
    Strannik Zipper: well, the river of time must carry me away - nice chatting
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to chat with you also Strannik... Thanks!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Strannik! Nice to see you :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice meeting you
    Strannik Zipper: cheers

    Strannik leaves and we try to face, with Sharon, what is frightening. Sharon makes a good point that we can discuss dropping and awareness and so many things, but there are 'rubber meets road' moments when conceptualizations drop away. I'm glad things lined up for us all to sign online.

    Eliza Madrigal: its easy to be thrown by those things, Sharon
    Eliza Madrigal: its like you're in a vulnerable spot
    SophiaSharon Larnia: just saw your comment about incomprehensible sentences Eliza haha i do that in speech sometimes, like some weird kind of dyslexia
    Eliza Madrigal: yes!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: its hard to explain it to others isnt it
    Eliza Madrigal: I honestly think if I were tested that would factor... you should see me in yoga class... all bassackwards
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I often add words to a sentence hoping it will eventually make sence when I figure out how to end it
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahah Steve!!!!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: heheh
    Eliza Madrigal: like just keep going and let the sentence find its way...
    stevenaia Michinaga: like group poetry, each adds a line until it ends
    SophiaSharon Larnia: used to think i had a speech impediment, i think its more that my thoughts are not only linear but linear in 8 different directions, a program gone amok
    stevenaia Michinaga: we did that here one night, it was very interesting
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh interesting
    Eliza Madrigal giggles... thinking of 8 lines shooting out of Sharon's head full of words...
    stevenaia Michinaga: I think it was Paradise, Cavino and me
    SophiaSharon Larnia: eek :))
    Eliza Madrigal: hah, okay, dropped that Sharon, you'll be happy to know
    Eliza Madrigal: I think I read that log, Steve...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: really entertaining.
    stevenaia Michinaga: and I am the last think in terms of poetry
    Eliza Madrigal: I may have put most of it in a scribe even
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)

    SophiaSharon Larnia: my dream was like too, a bunch of conversations
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, a sorting dream?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I've been thinking a lot about the idea that our waking consciousness exists in the setting of a ˜story' and have been seeing each individual I encounter in real life as having an entire story within them, as I have my own.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I've been thinking too much about that
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, sounds like you've been puzzling out something
    Eliza Madrigal: so maybe a time for thinking too much, then relaxing that...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: in the dream I heard about a hundred people talking at once
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh My
    stevenaia Michinaga: wow
    SophiaSharon Larnia: something didnt feel right, so i said stop
    Eliza Madrigal: and no sense of harmony or poetry?
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah
    Eliza Madrigal: Did they?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and it didnt stop, so i said stop, and got more upset, stop it stop it STOP
    Eliza Madrigal: Ohh
    Eliza Madrigal: so really an overwhelmed feeling... out of control a bit
    SophiaSharon Larnia: all of a sudden deafening silence fell, and I felt a hundred head turning and lookign at ME
    Eliza Madrigal: my turn to say wow
    SophiaSharon Larnia: my fear exploded
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and I woke up
    Eliza Madrigal: exploded? how so?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I felt awareness there
    stevenaia Michinaga: quite a dream
    Eliza Madrigal: !
    stevenaia Michinaga: much contol (of the crowd)
    Eliza Madrigal: intense Sharon... Can you say more about awareness there?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh no it felt like they were talking to other people i couldnt see each one telling their story to someone, soft voices, loud voices, deep pitch, high pitch, sing-song candence and monotone
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and when i yell STOP its like they woke and and heads swiveled to me
    Eliza Madrigal: beyond stories... as you were saying this morning
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i cant relay the emotions well here
    Eliza Madrigal: you woke them up from stories?4.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: shakes
    Eliza Madrigal: a really neat dream though, Sharon, intense.. strong.... but hmmm
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ive had dreams like it before, but like i was hearing people around me
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but i meant stop as in stop scaring me, not, stop and wake up
    SophiaSharon Larnia: stop the dream
    SophiaSharon Larnia: my fear is what bothers me
    Eliza Madrigal: thinking of what we were talking about with Strannik, there is a kind of next level I guess.. when you can see through the stories, the dreams, etc...

    SophiaSharon Larnia: i wasnt seeing through anything i was just scared
    SophiaSharon Larnia: someday id like to hear the story
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it felt in my face
    Eliza Madrigal: may take a few days
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: I hope you will be able to rest
    Eliza Madrigal will need you tomorrow at the scribe session ... hehe
    stevenaia Michinaga: or write it down

    Rezzing the singing bowl...

    SophiaSharon Larnia: we talk about dropping fear here
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and its a wonderful thought for contemplation, consideration, personal growth
    SophiaSharon Larnia: until its in your face
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: that's why I wondered about the element of awareness... when awareness arises on its own in the midst of or even provoked by a fear or circumstance....
    Eliza Madrigal: that is a powerful turn
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it felt like something was in the room, standing near where i was sleeping
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i felt defenseless, vulnerable
    Eliza Madrigal: :(
    Eliza Madrigal: similar to sleep paralysis?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sort of
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: remembering fox talking about hearing... sound being a characteristic
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but didnt feel the typical numbess, return to waking up

    Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if we all might take a five minute meditation together... like paradise might... would it help a bit you think...?
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd be happy to keep time
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :) yes it would thanks
    stevenaia Michinaga: and the focus?
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay... let's begin in just a few minutes
    Eliza Madrigal: that's a good question Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: how about simply letting go of the stress that surrounds us
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: perfect
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay.... I'll ring the bell three times to begin, and one to end :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: with each breath we can imagine the fog of stress dicipating
    Eliza Madrigal: Ahhhh, yes very nice... clearer and clearer
    Eliza Madrigal: Settle in...
    Eliza Madrigal:

    "You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." Buddha

    SophiaSharon Larnia: wow 5 mins already :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles at Eliza ...... thank you
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: feels like a drink of water...
    stevenaia Michinaga: much can happen in 5 minutes
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed, Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: I love how thoughts arise and change, I ended up visualizing my Tai Chi for part of it
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice
    SophiaSharon Larnia: very nice, I think that would be good for me too:)
    stevenaia Michinaga: after breathing through the begining
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I saw moving fog, it was starting to swirl in one direction 

    SophiaSharon Larnia: ooooh caps sorry!!!
    stevenaia Michinaga: caps happen
    SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Eliza Madrigal: Think you'll be able to rest, Sharon?
    Eliza Madrigal: I hope so
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes thanks
    Eliza Madrigal: :) (((Sharon))) Glad we could be here tonight
    SophiaSharon Larnia: me too ((Eliza))
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i cant believe youre going to nj i didnt know that
    Eliza Madrigal: (we should hug steve too) (((Steve))))
    Eliza Madrigal: heh
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ((Steve))
    stevenaia Michinaga: I was close enough
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hugs
    stevenaia Michinaga: thx
    stevenaia Michinaga: hugs back
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i was just thinking that Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: I really hope you both will come for dinner... meet Storm and Saki...
    stevenaia Michinaga: do you know where the dinner will be?
    Eliza Madrigal: not a clue
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I'll ask Pema for a time and place
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: something downtown?
    Eliza Madrigal: We have a list of things that each meeting we keep putting off... so the idea is 'focus' :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: lol
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Eliza Madrigal: I guess so Steve... have suggestions?
    stevenaia Michinaga: should be an intersting and productive few days
    stevenaia Michinaga: no, I don;t know the area well enough
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I'd think so... pema will be in japan for a long stretch later in the year I think... so I think we'd like to have a real handle on things... especially getting the handbook together
    stevenaia Michinaga: handbook?
    Eliza Madrigal: the techier members have been working on making the wiki clearer too...
    Eliza Madrigal: some things we get used to and don't realize that new people can't find things, etc.
    Eliza Madrigal nods...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I hope a lot can get done in meeting, rather than in email back and forth
    Eliza Madrigal: like the page showed you
    Eliza Madrigal: is part of the handbook... so that at any point, say, if I am working ft at some point....
    Eliza Madrigal: or someone has an emergency, etc
    Eliza Madrigal: someone can SEE exactly (or close to exactly) what do to
    Eliza Madrigal: to fill in for that person, etc
    Eliza Madrigal: there is a Chronicles page, a Guardian mentors page, a page for welcoming new guardians and scribes, etc
    Eliza Madrigal: like operations book
    Eliza Madrigal: these things seem like they'd be simple but the little details run away...
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: indeed!
    stevenaia Michinaga: yeah
    Eliza Madrigal: and we're not all pema who somehow keeps up
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yea its amazing
    Eliza Madrigal: hah, ws just writing that!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i cant even remember what im doing the next day sometimes
    Eliza Madrigal: haha, yes.... he calls it a 'bean counter mentality'...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: have to keep checking the notes on the fridge
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm trying to develop it but one might need math... hahah
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    stevenaia Michinaga: I make a list, then look at it 2 weeks late, see what I missed
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
    Eliza Madrigal: or make a 'have done' list
    Eliza Madrigal: or better 'have not done and will forget again'
    stevenaia Michinaga: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd better get to bed...
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Eliza
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i have things to do too, night Eliza and Steve :))
    Eliza Madrigal: early morning appointment and I want to be fresh for the scribe session tomorrow. Nice to spend time with you both :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: good dreams
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you too :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, sweet dreams all!!!
    Eliza Madrigal: Nite
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Steve :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Sophia

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