2010.03.07 13:00 - Addressing doubt

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

    This session involved three of us, Yakuzza, Arabella and I, at first in conversation among ourselves and then having a visitor, Moron Scientist, who at first seemed a bit confrontational and then when we invited him to come back and converse he seemed to embody, at least to my mind, the voices of internal doubt which we all carry to some extent. See what you think. 


    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey maxine
    Maxine Walden: hi, Yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i hope you´re fine ?
    Maxine Walden: how are you, Yaku. Yes, I am fine, amidst the early spring weather it seems. How about you?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: also, i had a few very interesting conversations today
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and the weather is also great
    Maxine Walden: oh?
    Maxine Walden: what kind of interesting conversations?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i talked to a few contacts through skype with whom i did some language exchange in the past, just via computer
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but it´s interesting to keep up
    Maxine Walden: oh, yes it is.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and one of em is actually comming to a university about 80km from here next year
    Maxine Walden: oh?
    Maxine Walden: how interesting
    Yakuzza Lethecus: he got a schoolarship
    Maxine Walden: ah...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey ara
    arabella Ella: Hiya
    Maxine Walden: hi, Ara
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how are you today ara ?
    arabella Ella: I am fine thanks Yaku although I had a quiet day
    arabella Ella: and unfortunately it is wet and windy here today :(
    arabella Ella: how are you?
    Maxine Walden: oh, Storm
    Maxine Walden: Storm's storm come your Way?
    arabella Ella: yes it did :)
    arabella Ella: although it was great there not to get our hair all frizzy
    Maxine Walden: (from the guardian meeting a few hours ago)
    Maxine Walden: yes, fun wasn't it. I actually got cold and felt like bundling up during that storm
    arabella Ella: yes SL can be so realistic at times
    Maxine Walden: so realistic, it reaches right inside of one/me at least.
    arabella Ella: yes it definitely does
    arabella Ella: and it is so lovely to be in contact with so many people spread out all over the world too
    arabella Ella: i mean one example was meeting the avis in Malta ... such a great experienc e
    Maxine Walden: Oh, yes, it really is, Ara. Yes, I have heard such wonderful things about the retreat in Malta...and the RL ones behind the avis we know so well
    Maxine Walden: I had that experience at the California retreat last spring
    arabella Ella: yes it is lovely when avis meet ... the feeling of having known each other for some time prior to meeting in RL
    arabella Ella: are you going to the SF retreat Maxine?
    Maxine Walden: afraid I cannot make the SF retreat; am planning on going to Nova Scotia in July, however. Are you thinking of the SF retreat?
    arabella Ella: I would love to but unfortunately I cant make it to SF or to Canada
    Maxine Walden: ah, can certainly understand. How about you, Yaku?
    Maxine Walden: Any PaB issues, concerns for us to ponder?
    Maxine Walden: ( about 1 min from a pause)
    arabella Ella: i can't really think of any PaB issues right now Maxine ...
    arabella Ella: can you?
    Maxine Walden: Just trying to keep my mind open...as in the 90 sec pause. Sometimes things arise, sometimes not...
    arabella Ella: yes
    arabella Ella: and i guess that often depends on what distractions one has around in RL
    Maxine Walden: for sure
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i often hope for ppl to be here whom i have the feeling embodie pab more like pema,eos,pila
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sadly pila is gone
    arabella Ella: yes me too Yaku
    Maxine Walden: one thing Yaku brought up earlier was connectedness, keeping up with old friends...that sense of connectedness can be very PaB
    arabella Ella: yes ... i sometimes wonder though ... how long do people really spend on SL ... in terms of years I mean ... do they come and go ... stay for some years then go?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i think especially after the pab retreat the bonding to many ppl increased
    arabella Ella: some change avis and identities
    Maxine Walden: ah, Ara, are you bringing up the sense of change, and maybe not even knowing who/what might be changing? Whether we might then feel great loss if those people 'leave' or change?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and it´s better that after a while ppl around here aren´t just the ,,flat" impressions they are if you only know em for a few sessions, it even makes sense for me to google ppl i haven´t met
    arabella Ella: yes Maxine ... even each one of us, RL demands change, we change, our tastes or interests may change too ...
    Maxine Walden: yes, Ara and Yaku, change seems to be potentially everpresent...
    Maxine Walden: sometimes seems enriching,and sometimes may seem more to bring loss
    arabella Ella: yes ... change always brings loss ... but change also brings opportunities
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i try not to change anything in my virtual appearance, but i constantly ask myself how to bring things from pab on a habitual level in real life
    Yakuzza Lethecus: what contemplation really means
    Maxine Walden: hmmm, yes, Yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: if spirituality is just bound to religion, and where do different religions possibly change same spiritual elements
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am not religious but it made me more curious about spiritual elements
    arabella Ella: well Yaku religion should always involve spirituality but it does not always apply the other way around
    arabella Ella: and i strongly believe there are many similarities amongst the main religions, more than people care to acknowledge
    Maxine Walden: Imagine we all have our own spirituality, some overlapping,some very private
    Maxine Walden: suppose I do not consider myself religious in formal terms but do have a strong link with spirituality in PaB terms
    Maxine Walden: spirituality in terms of reaching beyond the self...that wider reality we seem to tap into in PaB. Others feel that same way?
    arabella Ella: yes there seems to be a particular type of shared spirituality that is unique here at PaB
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s even the first place for me where ppl are tolking about these issues sepratly from religion, at least i have that feeling
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello m scientist
    Moron Scientist: hellop y lethecus
    Yakuzza Lethecus: you are aware that everything is logged around here ?
    Moron Scientist: no
    Maxine Walden: yes, we try to keep a lot of our discussions about lots of things...
    Maxine Walden: such as the nature of reality and our attempts to learn more about 'what is' when we drop our assumptions and try to see what lies beneath
    Moron Scientist: light conversation
    Maxine Walden: we talk about other things as well, some lighter conversation, but have this aspect of 'beyond who we think we are' always in the background
    Moron Scientist: I have no idea who I am, so that wouldn't be much of a problem for me
    Maxine Walden: do you mind your comments being logged in our chatlog? Would be your SL name and comments only of course
    Moron Scientist: up to you
    arabella Ella: oh ... are you here to discover who you are then?
    Moron Scientist: um, no
    arabella Ella: on SL i mean?
    arabella Ella: sorry got some lag tonight
    Maxine Walden: perhaps exploring SL, so much of such diversity on SL
    Moron Scientist: um, no, it looked like a fun computer game
    arabella Ella: well SL is what you make it to be
    Moron Scientist: as is everything
    arabella Ella: could be fun could be serious
    Moron Scientist: are fun and serious mutually exclusive?
    arabella Ella: i dunno
    Moron Scientist: same thing for me
    Maxine Walden: not at all, may coincide...depends of course on where one's mind is drawn
    Moron Scientist: that makes it sound like one's mind is a bath
    Moron Scientist: pull the plug at the bottom and it becomes a spiral of emptiness
    Maxine Walden: I think as you were coming, just before we all began to talk, that we were beginning to explore spirituality, each of our perhaps unique perspectives on that
    Moron Scientist: Sory, I didn't mean to interrupt
    arabella Ella: feel free to take a seat and join us if you wish
    Maxine Walden: no problem...feel free to join us if it is of interest
    Moron Scientist: I have no spirit, so I don't think it would make a lot of sense for me
    Maxine Walden: You know, someone coming in like that reminds me of the doubting part of myself, which always hovers ...wondering, doubting, maybe even questioning (eg moron) the wisdom of things
    Maxine Walden: so to have someone come in feels like an SL echo of some of my own inner voices.
    arabella Ella: Hey Moron, Maxine is merely sharing the thoughts triggered in her mind
    Maxine Walden: come on back, M Scientist, we can talk further...I was just saying that we often meet ourselves in others
    Moron Scientist: I'm curious about one thing.
    Maxine Walden: yes?
    Moron Scientist: Why do some of you insist on not using my first name?
    Maxine Walden: Moron?
    Moron Scientist: yes
    arabella Ella: i have used your first name
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, i didn´t
    arabella Ella: it is the one you chose after all
    Moron Scientist: you have, but I've also gotten "M Scientist" I was wondering why?
    arabella Ella: i have seen stranger names on SL
    Moron Scientist: Exactly. I chose it, so I must want someone to use it
    Maxine Walden: guess for me, I giess I wondered whether it felt as an insult; it is one thing to call oneself a moron, but may feel another for someone else to do so
    Moron Scientist: Well, by that logic, then one would think that you actually believe I am a moron...
    arabella Ella: are you looking for an argument?
    Moron Scientist: no, are you?
    Maxine Walden: I don't see it that way at all;
    arabella Ella: no ... one nice thing here is that we all show respect for each other and each person's opinions
    Moron Scientist: My point is that since I chose this name, then I must want it to be used, so wouldn't it be more insulting not to use it?
    Moron Scientist: I have complete respect for your opinion; I'm simply trying to understand something
    arabella Ella: yes perhaps Moron
    Maxine Walden: Is it OK to have differences? Here we try to explore them to see that different views need not be contentious or offensive
    Moron Scientist: I would think differences are neither ok nor not ok; they are unavoidable
    arabella Ella: differences make life more interesting
    Moron Scientist: agreed
    Moron Scientist: but if you do not ask questions, you can never understand those differences and, thus, they do not become interesting
    arabella Ella: i agree Moron and I too think questions are very important and useful
    Maxine Walden: Moron, may I ask why you chose that name?
    Moron Scientist: sure
    Maxine Walden: OK, why did you choose Moron for a first name?
    Moron Scientist: It was the first word that popped into my head when I was making an account
    arabella Ella: may I ask another question Moron
    Moron Scientist: sure
    arabella Ella: what do you think of SL so far?
    Moron Scientist: it has a lot of losers in it
    Moron Scientist: people who seem to spend 24/7 in front of a computer and don't have a life, thus spend all of their time in SL
    arabella Ella: well there are at least 78K ppl on line right now
    Moron Scientist: not everyont, of course, but a lot of that
    Moron Scientist: I'm sure that there are more than 78K losers in the world
    Yakuzza Lethecus: whats ur definition of loser pls ?
    Moron Scientist: people without a real life
    Moron Scientist: BTW, I am not insinuating that you are losers, I don't know about that, but you asked my impression and that is it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: what does real life mean exactly, so that implies that you know a definition of ,,the good life"
    Moron Scientist: I didn't say anything about a good life, I said real life--not a computer generated virtual world
    Moron Scientist: virtual = fake
    Maxine Walden: I am afraid that I have another meeting to go to, so will have to leave.
    arabella Ella: oh bye Maxine
    Maxine Walden: Interesting conversation
    Maxine Walden: bye all
    arabella Ella: well Moron you may be interested to hear
    arabella Ella: that many of us here ... we are normally a much larger group
    arabella Ella: many of us met in RL and we do not feel this is fake here at all
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, good night for today :)
    arabella Ella: nite Yaku
    Moron Scientist: well, that's good for you, I guess. I'm not sure at this point I'd want to meet anyone in SL
    Moron Scientist: in RL I mean
    arabella Ella: yes i get your point and perhaps that is similar to how i felt when i had only been here for a couple of months ... but perceptions change, attitudes too
    Moron Scientist: I'd be a moron if I didn't agree with that point
    arabella Ella: and what i find great is that we can discuss anything with people from all over the world
    arabella Ella: :)
    Moron Scientist: Can you REALLY discuss ANYTHING?
    arabella Ella: (as long as most understand some english)
    arabella Ella: yes anything
    Moron Scientist: So do you discuss your sex life on SL?
    arabella Ella: some people do
    arabella Ella: some dont
    arabella Ella: depends on how private people wish to be
    arabella Ella: as is also the case in RL
    Moron Scientist: The problem is that in SL you have no idea who or what is at the other end, unlike RL
    arabella Ella: unless you have met the other person in RL .... and
    arabella Ella: it is amazing how ppl here build up trust over time due to consistency of character ... as in RL too
    arabella Ella: and some people reveal their RL names too
    Moron Scientist: maybe, but I have found that in SL it is amazing how people use their anonymity to attack and insult others
    arabella Ella: i think that is just a minority and it often depends on which localiies you decide to frequent
    Moron Scientist: I actually think it is a majority. I've had the strong feeling that many of the "women" I encounter in SL are actually men
    Moron Scientist: as an example, that is
    arabella Ella: yes i know what you mean, one has to be cautious, however a bit of common sense would demonstrate that ...
    arabella Ella: SL is a platform which allows people liberties they may not enjoy in RL for a variety of reasons
    arabella Ella: including people who may be physically challenged who get a life thanks to SL
    Moron Scientist: of course, and it prevents people from interpreting the actions of others
    Moron Scientist: yes, I can see that it would be good for handicapped people as a way to contact others
    arabella Ella: well not only
    Moron Scientist: But I would never want to meet someone from SL in RL, because I have no way of knowing if you, for example, are a normal person or some kind of psycho
    arabella Ella: i myself live on a little island and here i find a much broader range of intelligent people with whom to discuss stuff
    Moron Scientist: I live in a huge city and have plenty of intelligent people to interact with
    arabella Ella: yes there are risks ... always ... but even in days gone by people used to meet people they only knew from letters
    arabella Ella: you are fortunate then if you have lots of ppl to interact with
    Moron Scientist: but days gone by have, well, gone by. We don't live in that world anymore
    Moron Scientist: I'm not sure that I am fortunate in having that, but they are there
    arabella Ella: yes it is only an anlalogy
    arabella Ella: hey what does JFA mean ?
    arabella Ella: scuse my ignorance
    Moron Scientist: IFA?
    arabella Ella: (on your shirt)
    arabella Ella: looks like JFA to me
    Moron Scientist: No ida. International Farting Association?
    arabella Ella: maybe
    arabella Ella: Junior Football Association
    Moron Scientist: Shirt just came with some stuff I got for free
    arabella Ella: yes
    Moron Scientist: I've never heard of a junior football association, only the NFL
    arabella Ella: well i am from Europe
    arabella Ella: and am in Europe
    Moron Scientist: oh, I'm not
    arabella Ella: and we have lots of youngsters playing football (soccer)
    Moron Scientist: I don't know anything about soccer
    arabella Ella: and i know very little about american football
    Moron Scientist: well, then, we were made for each other
    arabella Ella: right
    arabella Ella: must go as it is getting close to midnight here
    arabella Ella: nice meeting you
    Moron Scientist: sounds like a good idea
    arabella Ella: feel free to visit here any time we generally meet here at 1pm SL time
    Moron Scientist: Good luck with your, um, well, whatever it is you are doing here
    arabella Ella: he he
    arabella Ella: ty
    arabella Ella: u too
    Moron Scientist: Probably not, I'm not searching, just playing...
    Moron Scientist: SL is a way to kill time when I'm bored
    Moron Scientist: and don't have a book handy
    arabella Ella: yes ... play is good fun .... i know
    arabella Ella: bye then
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