2010.03.15 07:00 - Friends in the Bardos

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eden Haiku. The comments are by Eden Haiku.

    When I arrived, a bit late, Eliza and Yakuzza were already talking. We were soon joined by Liza and Zen and all the zzas and zzzs zigzagging with no rudder, the conversation went from what is "being green", to time, to dreams, to  triggers, to the "pain body" and so forth.  I was under the spell of a most powerful memory triggered by some very real sound in RL and felt very awkward as a GoC as well as with keyboard, English and grammar. My feeling from the session is that we were all swimming in the same holographic pool, but each one of us in our own corridor.  Eliza describes its very well when she says: "Friends in the bardos". In intervals of space and "levels", if not of time.

    Alice and queens.jpg

    On being green

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi, eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ya :)


    Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning
    Eliza Madrigal: Good evening :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: afternoon
    Eliza Madrigal: 4ish?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: early 3 pm since we have an hour less
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, true
    Yakuzza Lethecus: did you know that flying below a range of 1000km uses nearly as much gas as a car for each passenger ?
    Eliza Madrigal: yikes, no
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it wasn't worth mentioning during that session a few days ago, i won't say that ur not green or attempting too but i know many "green ppl" whom travel constantly by plane or car
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and all they are really green is is for example isolating their houses and safing electricity there
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and most of the time that is only to safe money
    Eden Haiku: Hi Eliza, Yakuzza! Good morning and good afternoon!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eden! What a lovely spring outfit! :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi eden :)
    Eden Haiku: That is why I'm late, I was shopping, sorry :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe, well good job shopping! :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Yakuzza, yes I think Doug has talked about this a bit too.. .
    Eliza Madrigal: that we can romanticize living greenly and become very judgemental about it....
    Eliza Madrigal: well, those wouldn't be his words... but I like that he often draws attention to the implications we don't see... economy-wise, etc
    Eliza Madrigal: In my own life I've made many shifts over the last few years.... slowly.... and they will be life-long....
    Eliza Madrigal: but from the outside one might point to my two story house, etc. and wag their finger :)
    Eliza Madrigal: we work with what we have :)
    Eliza Madrigal: where we are
    Yakuzza Lethecus: doug wasn't here for ages
    Eliza Madrigal: true... think he was travelling
    Yakuzza Lethecus: did you read his book ?
    Eliza Madrigal shakes head
    Yakuzza Lethecus: me neither :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but we have many bookworms around here :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am always kind of jealous when i notice that somebody got that habituated
    Eliza Madrigal: little shifts, Ya... :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: at least i try to read the introduction of most books mentioned :D
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
    Eden Haiku: ;-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: really the "introduction to phenomenology" was kinda fun when "piet" was mentioned
    Yakuzza Lethecus: still have that in mind since it was just 2-3 days ago that i had that incident
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i like to take a short view into whats talked about here
    Eliza Madrigal: a short view?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: not more then the first chapter for me so far :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I see :))
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am a media addict, but not written media
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't feel obligated to read every book I start... got over that years ago
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eden Haiku: Reading a bumping and bumping into our Pema's name?@Yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: exactly :)
    Eden Haiku: *a book. Sorry, it appears I forgot how to type during the night...
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Yakuzza Lethecus: jetlag all forgotten ?
    Eden Haiku: My cat was expressing her anxieties...did not sleep too well..
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh (( ))
    Eliza Madrigal: have to say I haven't slept too well in days either, but not for such exciting reasons as yours
    Eden Haiku: A little less fuzzy, but jet-lag for me takes ages.
    Eliza Madrigal: yesterday was pi day, and einstein's birthday, and daylight savings...
    Eden Haiku: My cat's anxieties are not so exciting...Lost my English too by the way... Dropping a lot :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: do you speak hindi now ?
    Eden Haiku: Ah yes, Pi as in 3/14... Funny!
    Eliza Madrigal: was kind of a strange day... watched a tivo'ed show from weeks ago, and it happened to have an interview with someone talking about the subject of time
    Eden Haiku: Atcha no!
    Eden Haiku: Ah time! What a great subject!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: can you give more details eliza ?
    Eden Haiku: Yes, please.




    Eliza Madrigal: The book is called "From Eternity to Here", and the author basically said that no one knows why past is 'back there' and future 'up ahead'...http://preposterousuniverse.com/eternitytohere/
    Eliza Madrigal: instead of visa versa
    Eliza Madrigal: He said that the universe was far more organized in the beginning than now....
    Eliza Madrigal: which seems an odd idea...
    Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, my noticings were more about a theme during the day I couldn't 'escape'
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, it's available as an audio book
    Eliza Madrigal: probably
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no, it is
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Eden Haiku:  "It is a poor sort of memory that only works backwards ".
    Eliza Madrigal: Interesting Eden, please say more!
    Eden Haiku: A quotation from Alice in Wonderland, I forgot who says that maybe the White Queen? Took me such a long time to find the English quotation marks on my keyboard... (I was mistaken, the quote is rather from Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll. Reading further, I discover this gem: when Alice asks her candidly what sort of things she remembers best, the White Queen says: "Oh, things that happened the week after the next".)
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: I love that quote! Memory is a fascinating subject, and yes such a doorway to thinking about our individual ways of experiencing time?
    Eden Haiku: I like the notion of Zeroeth time very much, the hologram metaphor.
    Eden Haiku: Past, present and future being layers instead of sequences.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, me too.... makes sense if one doesn't have to 'prove' it ;-D
    Eliza Madrigal: Are you able to see that way, experientially, sometimes?
    Liza Deischer: hi everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Liza :))
    Eden Haiku: Sometimes, yes. It happens. But I cannot control it.
    Eden Haiku: Hi Liza!
    Eden Haiku: We are talking about time this morning...
    Liza Deischer: ok
    Liza Deischer: I take it that it is not about US time :-)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: Not :)
    Eden Haiku: I'm also very interested in time-capsules, in the concept of crypts in psychoanalysis.
    Eden Haiku: We might be under the influence of the time-change though...
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, go on? is that like dormant memory packets?
    Eden Haiku: Yes, similar I would think.
    Liza Deischer: you loose me completely here
    Eden Haiku: It is like receiving a shock in the past and then being trapped in time at this moment.
    Zen Arado: Hi all
    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes we have to 'forget' things to protect ourselves
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen
    Eden Haiku: Hello Zen!
    Liza Deischer: hi Zen
    Liza Deischer: ok, I understand
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, something that is stunting Eden?
    Eliza Madrigal: stuck but don't know why?
    Eden Haiku: Yes, and sometimes the brain traps time in itself and endlessly play the same tape when triggered by an element from the past.
    Eden Haiku: Post-traumatic memories.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, nodding
    Zen Arado: nods


    Dreams and triggers

    Eliza Madrigal: fascinating how dreams can bring those things up when we're ready to let them go
    Eden Haiku: Yes?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... like my having recurring nightmares for a long time, about these viscious dogs... until one day they turned to huskies and saw one with my son's eyes :)
    Eden Haiku: Wow!
    Eden Haiku: Quite a transformation!
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, totally released me from a picture that had played over and over and over...
    Zen Arado: maybe the dogs represented something?


    Eliza Madrigal: yes, they did. a bit personal though, and I'm happy to have worked with it and moved on :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: did you ever mention that in the dream workshop ? :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, Ya :)
    Zen Arado: ok
    Zen Arado: "endlessly play the same tape"
    Zen Arado: know that one
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Liza Deischer: me too:-)
    Eden Haiku: I'm experiencing a trigger from the past right now and I would need your 'bottomless pit' trick when you were a kid Eliza so I would throw the trigger into the pit and not myself...
    Zen Arado: can't seem to stop it
    Eden Haiku: Like an earworm yes...
    Liza Deischer: especially the patterns that occur when we were a little child
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh Eden, that you notice it in the moment seems very important...
    Liza Deischer: they seem to have a lot of power
    Eden Haiku: It is interesting to be able to witness it here, feeling safe.
    Zen Arado: yes so much power
    Eliza Madrigal: you know I'm reminded of the idea of the 'sea of forgetfulness'... wonder if that's similar :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)Eden
    Zen Arado: knowing about letting go isn't the same as actually doing it
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eden Haiku: I experienced in EMDR therapy the way the brain heals itself, unknots the knots and then you feel so light! But it comes back...
    Eden Haiku: Until it is completely unknot I suppose…:-)
    Liza Deischer: patterns do have a lot of levels
    Eliza Madrigal: Does it come back and forth? or sneak up on you?
    Zen Arado: so you let go again I suppose
    Eden Haiku: Sneak up...
    Liza Deischer: that could be the sign of a different level
    Liza Deischer: when it sneaks up on you
    Eden Haiku: I can even tell what in RL is triggering the memory now...A particular sound.
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes... like maybe we shed one component at a time sometimes...
    Eliza Madrigal: Ooo
    Eden Haiku: I know what it is and yet my heart beat has accelerated…
    Eliza Madrigal: adrenaline.... fight or flight?
    Eden Haiku: Yes, there are billions of cells and synapses connected...
    Eliza Madrigal: a edgy place of potential
    Liza Deischer: Jung ever said that you need to heal things on the level where they began
    Zen Arado: wonders what we are talking about :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Interesting Liza, you mean 'never'?
    Zen Arado: sorry couldn't resist
    Eden Haiku: Flight yes, always my response...
    Eliza Madrigal giggles at Zen
    Liza Deischer: meaning that when something is stuck on an emotional level, you can't heal it on the rational level
    Liza Deischer: but there are so many levels
    Eliza Madrigal: So being able to stay in that place of trust and notice it Eden... that's how it might unknot more... you think?
    Zen Arado: maybe we just have to stick it out
    Liza Deischer: and often so many levels involved in patterns
    Eden Haiku: We are talking about time Zen...and  I started into one of my stories. The worst one. :-(
    Liza Deischer: depends on what you mean Zen
    Zen Arado: was thinking of my own story....
    Liza Deischer: sticking it out without feeling it, won't hep
    Liza Deischer: help
    Eden Haiku: True
    Zen Arado: yeah ...have to go through the pain
    Eden Haiku: I'm glad being able to stay with it with you :-)
    Zen Arado: not numb out
    Eliza Madrigal: hm... but feeling it without that element of awareness present might not help either...
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Liza Deischer: you could be right eliza
    Eden Haiku: @Eliza. Yes, I know it can unknot more. I'm in a process of doing so.
    Eliza Madrigal smiles and breathes
    Liza Deischer: because then emotions will happen and happen again, not getting solved
    Eliza Madrigal: when I would remember those dogs, before they changed, I would get very nervous... hands sweating... want to run....
    Eden Haiku: That is how future can shines from the hologram and remind me how it feels when this is healed!
    Zen Arado: have to let emotion thoughts melt' Joko Brck says
    Eden Haiku: *shine, My grammar is gone too...
    Eliza Madrigal: but determining to look into their eyes with awareness... that was the 'shift'
    Eliza Madrigal: with a nod to Liza :)
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Eden!?? say more?
    Eliza Madrigal: we can draw in a future where it is solved?
    Eden Haiku: Like, right now I'm still affected by this trigger from the past memory. But when it will be unknot completely, I will experience only lightness and peace. Starting at the end...
    Eliza Madrigal: Ahhhh smiling widely
    Zen Arado: have to see through the pattern though or it will happen again
    Liza Deischer: hmmm, don't know about that....




    Drawing in a future

    Eden Haiku: Yes, "draw in a future where it is solved" would be a nice way to say that.
    Eliza Madrigal: our imaginations are wonderful tools...pointers themselves
    Eden Haiku: The pattern could also dissolve I would think.
    Liza Deischer:there is a chance you don't draw in the future, but that you want to get away from what happens now
    Eden Haiku: Yes...
    Eliza Madrigal: mmmhm... yes didn't mean to want to 'go' to the future and 'leave'...
    Liza Deischer: then I'm interested in what you do mean :-)
    Eden Haiku: Rather using what we know about the theory of time: past, present and future are simultaneous.
    Eliza Madrigal: but hm, that we can imagine that all obstacles and anxiety is dissolved isn't just hm....
    Eliza Madrigal: yes @ Eden!
    Eden Haiku: We are yet unborn and already dead. And fully alive, together, here, now.
    Yakuzza Lethecus wonders what kind of triggers he got and which are really helpful (Interesting thought left unattended unfortunately, I would have liked to have been present enough to ask Yakuzza to say more about this)
    Liza Deischer: but on what level do you have understanding of that concept?
    Eden Haiku: On the level of my life Liza.
    Eliza Madrigal: on the level where one is at... with the awareness present...
    Liza Deischer: because if it doesn't fit the level where your trigger is, I don't think it would help
    Liza Deischer: that's what I mean eliza :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: awareness itself is always perfect, and maybe we can trust that
    Zen Arado: yes
    Eden Haiku: Trigger is at the level of one's life always, no?
    Eliza Madrigal: even if we can't trust our own ability to discern
    Liza Deischer: awareness dictates the level where you're one
    Zen Arado: but triggers something from the past
    Liza Deischer: ontherwise you wouldn't be aware :-)


    The pain body

    Zen Arado: something painful
    Zen Arado: 'pain body' as Tolle says
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Liza Deischer: 'life' contains all levels I should say
    Eden Haiku: Yes, this concept of "pain body"is so interesting...
    Zen Arado: old hurts
    Eliza Madrigal: acting out of the shadow
    Liza Deischer: painbody, interesting
    Zen Arado: takes us over
    Zen Arado: very powerful
    Eden Haiku: Yes, thanks for reminding me Zen...
    Zen Arado: not to be underestimated
    Eliza Madrigal: well, like I didn't 'set out' to deal with the dogs. They came up to be dealt with. I wasn't aiming at them with an idea that I was ready... I was just plugging along, allowing awareness into my life
    Eliza Madrigal: seems a natural process we can work with?
    Liza Deischer: yes, it does
    Zen Arado: have to allow it
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Zen Arado: but so want to withdraw
    Zen Arado: or rationalize it away
    Liza Deischer: oh yea
    Liza Deischer: but being aware of that is already a great thing
    Zen Arado: so it festers for another day.....
    Zen Arado: yes Liza
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, I think if you notice it, like Eden describes, that's already a signal that it can be let go a bit... dissolved a bit...
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: its the stuff we do and don't even see that's scary to think about... hehehe
    Eden Haiku: Right now, I'm rather pulled inside the bottomless pit. Talking with my boyfriend who knows about the whole thing and helps me stay afloat.
    Zen Arado: that's the stuff that gets triggered
    Eliza Madrigal: "spiritual friends" are invaluable
    Liza Deischer: but feeling the need for destraction of feeling resistence, which mostly comes along with these kind of triggers, is often the first step from stopping rationalizing it
    Eliza Madrigal: friends in the bardos
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eden Haiku: Friends in the bardos. How beautiful Eliza. You make me smile ;-)
    Zen Arado: true Liza
    Eden Haiku: I can feel your presence.
    Eliza Madrigal: So glad! Smiling too :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hmmm, and thinking about that Liza... deflections.. hehe "Quick, look over there!" haha
    Eliza Madrigal: funny
    Liza Deischer: huh?
    Eliza Madrigal: the way we deal with ourselves... something comes up and we deflect attention away
    Eliza Madrigal: IRl you would have seen me acting it out.... poiting, etc. :))
    Eliza Madrigal: *pointing
    Liza Deischer: ah...I understand
    Zen Arado: pouting ? :)
    Eden Haiku: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: that too, when no one understands me
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
    Liza Deischer: no not Poutin
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: pontificating, pointing and pouting
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: pontificating is my weakness :)
    Eden Haiku: laughing
    Eliza Madrigal giggles




    Our little group then dissolves 

    Eden Haiku: No, you do not pontificate Zen. You are always so sincere.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: I keep wanting to tell people things
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I have the work of being a girl today.... must go... funny that I thought "I'll be quiet today" before I got here
    Zen Arado: that they may not necessarily want to know :)
    Eden Haiku: Thanks for coming Eliza!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye eliza
    Zen Arado: I am supposed to be painting
    Zen Arado: bye Eliza
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
    Liza Deischer: the three p's (being a little late with this comment)
    Eliza Madrigal: Eden I hope you settle well today :) Thanks for this morning
    Zen Arado: bye Yaku
    Eden Haiku: Yes, I'm feeling better already Eliza!
    Zen Arado: bye all
    Liza Deischer: bye eliza
    Liza Deischer: (and Yaku)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now my friends :) So glad
    Liza Deischer: bye zen
    Eden Haiku: Bye Yaku!
    Eden Haiku: Bye Zen!
    Liza Deischer: and I'm going to have a nap
    Liza Deischer: cu Eden
    Eden Haiku: Yes, Liza, rest well.
    Liza Deischer: thanks
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    Originally written on 22:29, 15 Mar 2010
    Oh Eden, yes your descriptions are so apt!
    -Elizzzzzzzzzzzzzza ;-)
    Posted 15:02, 9 Apr 2010
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