2010.03.27 19:00 - On Big Bangs and Shotguns

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

    Pema Pera: Hi Arch!
    Pema Pera: and hi. brown snake talking in green
    Archmage Atlantis: Hey, I just use the programming......I don't create it *g*
    Pema Pera: just letting it happen . . .
    Archmage Atlantis: Well attending a baroque masked wedding, a new thing.......we are lucky there is new still to be had......well we are lucky to be able to recognize there are still new understanding
    Pema Pera: ah, that was related to your dignified clothes! They looked very nice, actually.
    Pila Mulligan: hi
    Pema Pera: Hi Pila!
    Pema Pera: Good to see you again
    Pila Mulligan: nice to see you also Pema
    Pila Mulligan: how are you Arch?
    Archmage Atlantis: Thank you, I did not pick them......the person I cared for did........and for him I went to the wedding......and for him I see a twisting path that will bring his husband here
    Pila Mulligan: hi Susi
    Pema Pera: Hi Susi
    Archmage Atlantis: I am doin well Pema
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello sister
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ all
    Pila Mulligan: long time no see Susi
    Pema Pera: Thanks for the astronomy related link, Pila
    Pila Mulligan: you are welcome
    Onto sports.
    Pila Mulligan: well, not really a topic, but a current event -- my favorite team just got beat in the US college basketball tournament
    Archmage Atlantis: did they put their hearts into the game, Pila?
    Pila Mulligan: the National College Athletic Association basketball tournament is a big deal for places like Kentucky where not much more than basketball takes place
    Pila Mulligan: tehy played really well, Arch -- the basket had a lid on it -- the missed shots they should never miss
    Pila Mulligan: they were beaten by West Virginia -- another place where basketball can be a ticket for atheletic kids
    Archmage Atlantis: I always ask gurus if suffering has meaning.........to lose at sports has meaning also
    Pila Mulligan: the human mind seems to have a need to associate and give significance to things -- but that just relfects a pattern of the mind -- real meaning may be difficult to discern
    Pema Pera: maybe reality is beyond meaning :-)
    Susi Alcott: sometimes the lose 'comes' by too much trying...
    Pila Mulligan: this time they lost by missing baskets :)
    Archmage Atlantis: That is correct for me, Pema....reality is beyond meaning
    From sports to the Universe.
    Pila Mulligan: Pema, can I get a little cosmic question answered please: is space expanding?
    Pema Pera: well, yes, that is one way to say it
    Pila Mulligan: coould you kind of flesh it out as to menaing please
    Pila Mulligan: as best you can
    Pema Pera: of course, words are always only an approximation of the math and physics that in turn are a description of what we understand so far of reality.
    Pema Pera: well, if you follow the time lines of galaxies in the universe, then from their point of view, there is more and more space appearing, and galaxies move away from each other, so the every-day interpretation would be "space is expanding"
    Pema Pera: another interpretation is that there is space-time, which is given, where nothing "happens"
    Susi Alcott: Hi Lucinda
    Pila Mulligan: is it realistic to consider the big bang as an explosion of space, with the image of a boundary or edge of space then speeding outward from it ?
    Pema Pera: and there are other ways to "slice the cake" of the four-dimensional reality as well
    Pema Pera: Hi Lucinda!
    Lucinda Lavender: hi
    Pila Mulligan: hi Luci
    Pema Pera: sure, seeing the big bang as "an explosion of space" is far more accurate than as "an explosion in space" which is definitely wrong
    Pema Pera: Lucinda, Pila is asking me questions about the Big Bang :)
    Pila Mulligan: so is space getting biggger then locally?
    Lucinda Lavender: oh!
    Pila Mulligan: is it expanding around us?
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pema Pera: that would be a fair way of expressing it, yes
    Pila Mulligan: ask the master
    Pema Pera: around us, and also around every other point
    Pema Pera: there is no "center of expansion"
    Pema Pera: so it's un unusual expansion
    Pila Mulligan: so we are growing then dimensionally by the expansion?
    Archmage Atlantis: And there are many more Bangs than our big onw
    Pema Pera: you could say so, yes,
    Pema Pera: (to Pila)
    Pema Pera: as for many more Big Bangs, quite likely
    Pila Mulligan: no wonde rI've gained weight
    Pema Pera: but hard to prove since we can't peek into another universe
    Lucinda Lavender: :0
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Archmage Atlantis: Cheap shot Pila, but funny
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pema Pera: most likely our universe is a small part of a "multiverse"
    Pila Mulligan: and so how does locally expanding space affect time -- is it also dilateaed?
    Pila Mulligan: dialated*
    Every metaphor being only approximately true, I choose one with an oven.
    Pema Pera: think of an infinite cake rising in an oven, where every raison thinks it is the center of expansion . . . . .
    Pema Pera: no, time is more or less the same for every galaxy
    Pema Pera: in first approximation
    Pila Mulligan: this sounds very uncomprehnsible :)
    Pema Pera: which part is?
    Archmage Atlantis: So one cannot imagine a galaxy without time, then?
    Pila Mulligan: it seems to me that if space expands it would affect time
    Pema Pera: no, all galaxies are at rest with respect to their surroundings, roughly speaking
    Pila Mulligan: if a foot expands it becomes more than afoot, so 60 mph would not stay the same speed unless time also changed
    Pema Pera: if they would move very fast, locally, then time would slow down for them, but they don't
    Pila Mulligan: my capacity for conecptualizing is plainly limited in these matters
    Archmage Atlantis: astrophysics explains much......still the is more to be learned, yes?
    Pema Pera: well, it helps seeing pictures and equations, the geometry and algebra of math -- just words are plain confusing
    Pema Pera: for each question you ask, I picture my understanding and then read off the answer
    Pema Pera: the words are just shadows on the wall
    Pila Mulligan: I imagine time becoming Lilliputian as space becomes Brobdingnagan
    Pila Mulligan: and it seems time looses some vlaue then
    Pema Pera: no, time is measured locally
    Pema Pera: and space doesn't expand much locally
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pema Pera: not at the size of a clock -- only at the size of distances between hundreds or more galaxies
    Pema Pera: your watch is truly lilliputian compared to galaxies :-)
    Archmage Atlantis: Why do men argue, and women listen?,,,,,,,,perhaps it is the future of life
    Pema Pera: I've seen women arguing, Arch :-)
    Pila Mulligan: ok, I was misreading earlier then ... [19:25] Pila Mulligan: so is spoace getting biggger then locally? [19:25] Pila Mulligan: is it expanding around us? [19:25] Pema Pera: that would be a fair way of expressing it, yes
    Pema Pera: it is getting bigger, but locally only a bit
    Pila Mulligan: why doesn't space expand much locally?
    Pema Pera: if the universe gets one percent older (in a hundred million years, roughly) everything around us gets also roughly 1% more stretched, on large enough scales
    Pema Pera: and in a hundred years only one millionth of one percent
    Pila then brings up an interesting mythological image, which actually can be translated into modern astrophysics quite readily.
    Pila Mulligan: incidentally, one of the legends of Hawai`i is that the demi-god Maui lasooed the sun and caused it to slow down, making the days longer -- but this is probably not directly related to astrophysics :)
    Pema Pera: but given the enormous distances between galaxies, one millionth of one percent is still huge!
    Pila Mulligan: but locally it is not proportionately so great, that makes sense
    Pema Pera: the days are getting longer, because of the lasso of the Moon's tides, in my vocabulary :-)
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, unless it is time of a quantam jumt
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: well, thanks Pema, you are a fountain of knowledge for one curious about these things
    Pema Pera: my pleasure, Pila, it's my job after all :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: I have great respect for Pema
    Archmage Atlantis: He and Storm created this cente
    Pema Pera: Lucinda, I really enjoyed your discussion of dreams, yesterday. I have another question about your work in Montessori schools: do you talk with children there about dreams?
    Lucinda Lavender: Sometimes I do. They have much to say.
    Pema Pera: (thanks Arch, but there were many others involved too)
    Pema Pera: I bet they do!
    Lucinda Lavender: Some dreams they tell are very beautiful.
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pema Pera: do they like to talk about their dreams?
    Lucinda Lavender: I don't remember them tho
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Pema Pera: life must be quite dream like for them, every day so many new impressions . . . .
    Pila Mulligan: are you aware of the dream workshop at Kira on Tuesdays, Lucinda?
    Lucinda Lavender: yes.
    Lucinda Lavender: I have heard but do not remember the time.
    Pila Mulligan: 1 pm SLT
    Lucinda Lavender: I would be interested in visiting. Thanks.
    Pila Mulligan: it is an interesting workshop
    I point first to the Kira dream workshop page and later give the URL.
    Pema Pera: http://www.kira.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=106&Itemid=136
    Lucinda Lavender: I am kind of new to computers.
    Pila Mulligan: don't let them bully you :)
    Lucinda Lavender: ok! at the wiki place will I be able to copy the address mentioned?
    Pila Mulligan: the reference to bully was in regard to being new to computers -- people often seem to readily feel personal guilt for faults that result from computer technology -- ergo, computers as bullies
    Pila Mulligan: hi Ethen
    Susi Alcott: Hi Ethen
    Ethen Lane: Greetings
    Pema Pera: Lucinda, here is the slurl for the Kira Cafe: http://slurl.com/secondlife/BaikUn/226/96/251
    Pema Pera: do you know what a slurl is?
    Pema Pera: (a Second Life URL) ?
    Pema Pera: Hi Ethen!
    Lucinda Lavender: right, yes
    Lucinda Lavender: I would like to capture it...
    Ethen Lane: How is everyone
    Pema Pera: Fine, nice to meet you, Ethen
    Pila Mulligan: fine thanks Ethen, and you?
    Ethen Lane: I'm Well thank you :)
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi Ethen!
    Pema Pera: Have you been here before?
    Ethen Lane: I haven't
    Pema Pera: we get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- We record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
    Archmage Atlantis: Ethen is my brother-in-lwa
    Ethen Lane: indeed I am
    Ethen Lane: proudly
    Archmage Atlantis: And worth while as a person
    Ethen Lane: and You are as well Archmage
    Archmage Atlantis: Pema need to know if you are willingto be recorded Ethen
    Pila Mulligan: his lawyer makes him askthat question for copyright purposes
    Pema Pera: :)
    Ethen Lane: Im ok with that ineed...a wise Man holds no bounds
    Ethen Lane: :)
    Pema Pera: thanks, Ethen!
    Ethen Lane: yw
    I wanted to make sure Ethen knew what we are doing.
    Pema Pera: Did Arch tell you about our 9-sec explorations?
    Ethen Lane: We havent hadthe chance o go into detail, however Im open to learn
    Pema Pera: we take a kind of shot gun approach to exploring the nature of reality . . . .
    Archmage Atlantis: Teach Pema
    Pema Pera: shooting a little hole into our habits once every fifteen minutes
    Pema Pera: letting in some space
    Pema Pera: and openness
    Ethen Lane: nods
    Pema Pera: nanomeditations you could say
    Ethen Lane: very alluring
    Pema Pera: or a 1 % time tax
    Pema Pera: (15 minutes = 900 seconds)
    Ethen Lane: nods
    Pema Pera: so four times a day we give ourselves a break
    Pema Pera: I mean, four times an hour
    Pema Pera: and four times a day we come together, to compare the breaks, I meant to say
    Ethen Lane: ahhh ok makes scense
    Pema Pera: so we trade duration for frequency, compared to most approaches
    Pema Pera: usually when people practice yoga or tai chi or whatever, they first train for a few years and then more and more integrate what they learn into their life -- but here we start with integration
    Pema Pera: even before knowing what it is we are integrating :-)
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Ethen Lane: nods
    Ethen Lane: :)
    Pema Pera: like children learning by doing
    Pema Pera: boldly
    Ethen Lane: I think that sounds good for the soul
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: cures the blues :)
    Ethen Lane: indeed
    Pema Pera: Lucinda, have you played with the short breaks a bit, already?
    Lucinda Lavender: I think so. My repoonse has been to breathe and connect to a place within and without
    Pema Pera: that sounds very nice!
    Lucinda Lavender: shedding stories as well
    Ethen Lane: smiles
    Pema Pera: one of the fun aspects of Play as Being is that everyone has a different approach
    Pema Pera: to sum up, Ethen, we meditate like a bat out of hell :-)
    I couldn't help myself, with Ethen looking like a veritable hellish creature, with bat like wings (^_^)
    Ethen Lane: ya know...I think if that were done alot more...people wouldnt be so unhappy in life
    Pema Pera: (in RL that is, here we take a more leisurly approach: 90 seconds)
    Pila Mulligan must be going -- nice to see/meet everyone -- bye for now
    Pema Pera: bye Pila!
    Pema Pera: thanks for stopping bye
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Pila
    Lucinda Lavender: bye Pila!
    Pila Mulligan: aloha
    Archmage Atlantis: Carwling off all the floor
    Pema Pera: I must be going too, it's getting late here at the East Coast
    Pema Pera: nice talking with you all
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ Pema
    Pema Pera: bfn
    Lucinda Lavender: yes! bye Pema
    Archmage Atlantis: I no longer have forgiveness
    Susi Alcott: then you have got quite lost of yourself
    Susi Alcott: off
    Susi Alcott: from
    Archmage Atlantis: The seas shall rise.....the earth will exlplode with fire......it will bre a reboot
    Lucinda Lavender: each moment then becomes a gift?
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Lucida, each moment is at gift........and a recognition we are created in the image
    Susi Alcott: Hi Carey
    Carey Tamalyn: Hi
    Archmage Atlantis: susi, may I and Ethen talk alone?
    Susi Alcott: well; remember that all here is recorded, so...might it be possible only in IM
    Archmage Atlantis: I do not fear recording
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
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