2010.03.30 13:00 - The M-word

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

    A little chaotic start. When it settles down, Bleu, Bertram and his friend Fay are here with me to talk.

    Liza Deischer: hi bertram
    Bertram Jacobus: hy liza ! :-)
    Liza Deischer: leaving again I'm afraid :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: okay ... have a good time ! :-)
    Liza Deischer: thanks
    Bertram Jacobus: heyy storm ! ... :-)
    Storm Nordwind: Hi there Bertram

    Tempus fugit?
    Bertram Jacobus: long time no see ;-)
    Storm Nordwind: Yes it appears so, though maybe only 3 weeks!
    Bertram Jacobus: yes - sl time seems always to contain more fl time ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: why may that be so ?
    Storm Nordwind: I agree!
    Storm Nordwind: Hmm... not sure. Any ideas?
    Bertram Jacobus: no, was a serious question from an unknowing man ... (me)
    Storm Nordwind: Where we are and how we feel does seem to affect our comprehension of time
    Storm Nordwind: There is the English saying, "Time flies when you're enjoying yourself"
    Bertram Jacobus: understandable -
    Bertram Jacobus: and hey bleu :-)
    Storm Nordwind: Hi there Bleu
    Fay Yedmore: hey bleu
    Bleu Oleander: hey all

    We chat for a while about the art exhibits...
    Storm Nordwind: Any more artistic creations adorning the Plaza Bleu?
    Bleu Oleander: haven't seen any
    Bleu Oleander: perhaps the next round is taking more time
    Storm Nordwind: Ah perhaps... I still have one more piece to do - and I'll try to finish it by Friday
    Bertram Jacobus: i can´t do any art - sry ... am very untalented for such -
    Bleu Oleander: oh good
    Fay Yedmore: can i ask about that art?
    Bleu Oleander: maybe every month or so we could design a new art project
    Fay Yedmore: what is the meaning what was/is the plan?
    Storm Nordwind: Of course Fay, please do
    Bleu Oleander: with new parameters
    Bleu Oleander: the challenge was to create a work of art
    Fay Yedmore: oke
    Bleu Oleander: that fit certain parameters
    Fay Yedmore: and for what wich theme?
    Bleu Oleander: and illuminated a Play as Being theme
    Fay Yedmore: are there already some creations?
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Bleu Oleander: Storm has some wonderful ones
    Fay Yedmore: can the be watched?
    Bleu Oleander: sure take a look
    Fay Yedmore: where
    Fay Yedmore: am sorry am so new here
    Fay Yedmore looks a bit shy
    Bleu Oleander: in the play as being village square
    Storm Nordwind: It is to the north and slightly east of here
    Fay Yedmore: ah perhaps you can take me ones there hun?
    Bertram Jacobus: i can show you dear , then , if you like ...
    Storm Nordwind: About 200m away

    ...and who can creates them
    Fay Yedmore: i would like to make such too ones
    Fay Yedmore: or is there date?
    Fay Yedmore: or what is the plan
    Bleu Oleander: Bert, have you made one?
    Bertram Jacobus: no. i typed before : sry : i´m very untalented in such doings ...
    Fay Yedmore: or cant i because am not part of the group?
    Fay Yedmore: sorry of all my questions
    Storm Nordwind: Fay, you would have to give it to Bert to put there. It has to follow certain rules. And you have to be a group member to place it there
    Bleu Oleander: no one is untalented :)
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. i am. in that. i can do other thigs
    Fay Yedmore: smiles sure
    Bertram Jacobus: things*
    Bleu Oleander: maybe next project we could allow one texture and only a few prims
    Bertram Jacobus: so - to support fay´s questions : which are the actual parameters ? and which is the time table ? is there one ?
    Storm Nordwind: It's interesting to see though how creativity can be enhanced by constraints
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Storm Nordwind: The parameters are on the guardian email list
    Bleu Oleander: i sent you a notecard
    Bertram Jacobus: ty for the nc bleu
    Fay Yedmore: thanks
    Bleu Oleander: each piece has a notecard .... if you go look, take one from each one
    Fay Yedmore: yes i would love too

    Fay's questions naturally lead the conversation into what guardians are and what the Play as Being practice is.
    Fay Yedmore: maybe i can perhaps ask one more thing
    Bleu Oleander: sure
    Fay Yedmore: how can u become a member of this group
    Fay Yedmore: are there some task to do or ?
    Storm Nordwind: The group is for Play as Being guardians
    Storm Nordwind: We invite people to become guardians if they've visited this place a lot and have taken up the Play as Being practice
    Fay Yedmore: practice?
    Fay Yedmore: please help me out ther
    Storm Nordwind: That's what these meetings are for
    Fay Yedmore: ah great
    Storm Nordwind: To talk about the Play as Being practice
    Storm Nordwind: If you look on http://playasbeing.wik.is you'll find out more about it
    Fay Yedmore: oh wow
    Fay Yedmore: yes i will do that
    Fay Yedmore: awesome
    Fay Yedmore: thanks storm
    Storm Nordwind: But the basic practice is a short meditation of only 9 seconds, but repeated at 15 minute intervals
    Fay Yedmore: oke
    Storm Nordwind: By the way... since you appeared with Bert, I may have made an assumption: all the conversations here are recorded and put on that website - including this conversation. Do you mind if your name and words are mentioned?
    Fay Yedmore: no storm i was here already a view times smiles
    Storm Nordwind: Good :)
    Bertram Jacobus: heyy cal :-)
    Storm Nordwind: Hello Cal
    Fay Yedmore: hey cal
    Bleu Oleander: hi Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello everyone :)
    Fay Yedmore: am reading the site but i will take some more time for it
    Fay Yedmore: to much to soon and to late for me now smiles
    Fay Yedmore: looks so intresting
    Storm Nordwind: Yes I can understand that!
    Storm Nordwind: The introductory bits will be the most useful at first
    Fay Yedmore: but what about those meditations
    Fay Yedmore: never dne such
    Fay Yedmore: done
    Bertram Jacobus: here, i could imagine, nobody will evangelize ...
    Bertram Jacobus: will be more the other way round : one has to question quite intense to get to know something about the practise ? what do all think about this ? ;-)

    The 9 second practice.
    Storm Nordwind: There are some introductory ideas on the website. But basically we stop for 9 seconds, just pause, and drop our associations and identifications that we carry with us most of the time, our baggage if you like, so that we can get a chance to see what we are behind that
    Storm Nordwind: It's called Play as Being, because we can play with what it might be like to 'be', or even to be Being
    Fay Yedmore nods

    Frequency is more important than regularity.
    Bertram Jacobus: i found it a very and really intense practise to do that all 15 minutes !
    Bertram Jacobus: over the whole day ...
    Storm Nordwind: The frequency is important yes
    Storm Nordwind: Many people are not exact in the timing
    Bertram Jacobus: was never able to do that i admit ...
    Storm Nordwind: But it's the frequency of poking holes in what we assume to be real that helps
    Bertram Jacobus: only partly
    Bertram Jacobus: and as i heard its so for most
    Bertram Jacobus: does anybody here practise like that ? stopping every 15 minutes for 9 seconds ? over the hole day ?
    Storm Nordwind: Many people record their impressions. There are several blogs out there with people's experiences. And some people find the time to come here and discuss them. Someone is here every 6 hours!
    Storm Nordwind: I have done Bert. My consistency varies a lot though!
    Bleu Oleander: I am not as regularly timed as every 15 min for 9 sec, but am noticing that I do it with more frequency than when I first started
    Bertram Jacobus: how long could you do it storm ? how many hours ? how many days ? or was it for weeks, even moth ? continiously ?
    Storm Nordwind: Certainly for a day at a time, yes
    Storm Nordwind: Each day is a new day! :)
    Storm Nordwind: I might not do it while driving though :)
    Bertram Jacobus: i installed reminders on my cellphone which reminded me for about 8 hours of the days every 15 minutes ...
    Storm Nordwind: Great!
    Calvino Rabeni: I find long drives an especially good time for awareness practice
    Calvino Rabeni: because there is nothing else to do
    Storm Nordwind has a 4 hour drive to Crestone ahead of him on Saturday...
    Calvino Rabeni: Good idea about the cell phone Bert

    I used the M-word before (meditation). Does that include or exclude people? What other words could we use?
    Bertram Jacobus: but i have a question in my mind : would this practise also be fine for somebody who didn´t do any meditation before ? sry - am very unsure about that ... hm - because my own access to it was and is quite different ...
    Storm Nordwind: I would say yes
    Bleu Oleander: I would agree
    Storm Nordwind: Especially as experienced meditators might not call it meditation! ;)
    Bertram Jacobus: ah - the naming it "micro meditation" is a quite smart way to help accept it as such ;o)
    Storm Nordwind: But the important thing is it's very accessible
    Calvino Rabeni: I think of it as "awareness" but not "meditation"
    Calvino Rabeni: There's no wrong way to do it
    Storm Nordwind: Cal's right - awareness is a better word, although it can sound wishy-washy to some people :)
    Bertram Jacobus: i find "micro meditation" quite clever as words for it :o)
    Bertram Jacobus: didn´t find that my self for sure
    Bertram Jacobus: heard it here
    Calvino Rabeni: But, when you "get" awareness, then it is possible to do with it various things, if you know meditation or other practices that can be done in a short time.
    Calvino Rabeni: I think of as "a meeting with myself" with an open agenda
    Bleu Oleander: nice to see you all ... bfn :)
    Storm Nordwind: Bye for now Bleu
    Calvino Rabeni: Whatever the things I do within that time, are not the definition of the practice
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye!
    Fay Yedmore: ppl thanks for those words
    Fay Yedmore: explaining
    Storm Nordwind: You are very welcome
    Fay Yedmore: right now i feel all is much info for me
    Fay Yedmore: so i will take some thime
    Bertram Jacobus: you know that i´m happy with all that fay - dear ...
    Storm Nordwind: Good idea
    Fay Yedmore: to get all clear to me
    Calvino Rabeni: That is a good use of attention too Fay :)
    Fay Yedmore: well thats just how i feel right now
    Bertram Jacobus: all VERY fine dear !
    Fay Yedmore: so i will leave you all a bit to go to my island
    Fay Yedmore: i wish you all a good evening
    Fay Yedmore: thanks again smiles
    Bertram Jacobus: am with you ...
    Storm Nordwind: Bye for now
    Calvino Rabeni: :) fare well
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Fay Yedmore: waves

    Bertram is touched by his friend's reaction. Meanwhile I have to leave, and there is another brief chaotic coming and going.
    Bertram Jacobus: it touched her extremly intense ...
    Bertram Jacobus: ty for all here ...
    Storm Nordwind: You're welcome Bert.
    Storm Nordwind: Would you please excuse me guys. I have to be away in a moment for another meeting
    Calvino Rabeni: Sure, thanks Storm, BFN
    Storm Nordwind: Namaste
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Bertram Jacobus: bye storm
    Bertram Jacobus: so this was ... special to me ... did you feel it too cal ?
    Calvino Rabeni: Not as much as some late night sessions, but I'd like to know what quality you experienced?
    Calvino Rabeni: Your friend being here, had the effect for you that I couldn't really see
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey you both
    Calvino Rabeni: Greetings Yakusan
    Bertram Jacobus: hi yaku ...
    Bertram Jacobus: the quality is ... feeling cal ... quite intense ... somebody new got beings impressions ... such ... and sry - have to leave now - may need help (!) ...
    Calvino Rabeni: :) thanks, good to meet with you Bert
    Bertram Jacobus: sry yaku for leaving so fast after your coming here and bye cal - may be all beings be ghappy please (!) ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye
    Calvino Rabeni: namaste Bert
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi pila
    Yakuzza Lethecus: wb
    Pila Mulligan: hi Yak
    Pila Mulligan: hi Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: GTSY, Pila
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but actually i am about to allow the gravity to drop myself into my fluffy,warm and comfy bed
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and practice a little for the dream workshop :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: gute nacht ihr beiden
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye!
    Calvino Rabeni: Heh, good night :)

    Calvino and Pila settle down to a new conversation. They talk about the US civil rights movement and how WWII brought change for New World inhabitants through intimate contact with Old World attitudes. I'll leave you with them...
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, Pila, are there things whereof to speak would be meet?
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: well let's see ...
    Pila Mulligan: do you have an interest in sociological-political history
    Pila Mulligan: ?
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't know yet :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Do you have something specific in mind?
    Pila Mulligan: yes, how WWII affected the civil rights movement
    Pila Mulligan: it is a simple matter, but one I only gained insight to somewhat recently
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm interested in the sociology of "current" history, I believe....
    Calvino Rabeni: Do say
    Calvino Rabeni: And I'll BRB :)
    Pila Mulligan: ok
    Calvino Rabeni: Back
    Pila Mulligan: wb
    Pila Mulligan: 90 secs :)
    Pila Mulligan: in 2002 I got involved in helping make a website for a World War II veterans association -- it was the first African-American tank battalion to enter the war -- I was involved somewhat with the civil rights movement in previous decades, but the expereince with the veterans opened my eyes to something new
    Pila Mulligan: when they first joined the army in the early 1940's they came from very diverse social and political situations -- some from the deep south immersed in the Jim Crow culutre there, some from the west and north where discrimination was less brutal but just as prevalent (one member of the batttalion was Jackie Robinson, who became the first black major league basball player later in his life)
    Pila Mulligan: when they got to Europe, and before while they were staged in England, they found culutres that were much less prejudiced
    Pila Mulligan: they were not treated badly and indeed were welcomed in situations where they would be treated badly in the US
    Pila Mulligan: then they went into combat and succeeded, despite being treated with less support than similar white units
    Pila Mulligan: so they considered they were fighting WWII on two fronts -- against Germany in the fireld and against racial discrimnation in the army
    Pila Mulligan: when they returned to the US after that expereince, they had a different view of things, and many of them, and their children became leaders of the civil right smovement
    Calvino Rabeni: Ok, so that was one of the factors instigating "consciousness raising".
    Pila Mulligan: like Jackie Robinson, they were willing to take heat to amke advances
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: A positive side effect of warfare
    Pila Mulligan: a few actually chose ot stay in England and Europe
    Pila Mulligan: after the war
    Pila Mulligan: it was interesting to hear first hand stories of how the war changed them
    Calvino Rabeni: indeed
    Calvino Rabeni: ...
    Calvino Rabeni: There are several streams in the history - which haven't cohered yet for me -
    Pila Mulligan: can you elaborate some?
    Calvino Rabeni: For instance, I'd like to know more about how the civil rights movement became the cause celebre of social liberalism in the USA
    Calvino Rabeni: And in doing so, what was lost / obscured
    Pila Mulligan: i think it was simply an extension of the cause of slavery
    Calvino Rabeni: Nothing is simple.
    Pila Mulligan: did you know the Founding Fathers agreed to take slavery off the table as a politcal issue for 50 years, to see if the new republic could get on its feet before facing it
    Pila Mulligan: ?
    Calvino Rabeni: No
    Pila Mulligan: then, when the 50 years was up, the same agreement was extended again by Congress
    Calvino Rabeni: Anyway, the thinking is too simplistic, IMHO, to consider that the civil rights movement is an extension of a natural social progression of some kind, without looking at whose interests specifically, were served by having it be foregrounded
    Pila Mulligan: slavery was the deepest controversy around during the first years of American history, and it was consciously set aside for that reason -- it was seen as too heavy, too likely to shake apart the new Republic, to take on in the normal course of politics at the start
    Pila Mulligan: and sure enough, whe they finally got around to it, it did shake apart the Republic, in the civil war
    Pila Mulligan: the interets at stake in the issue were the fuindamental conflict between an agrarian society (the couth) and anindustrializing society (the north)
    Calvino Rabeni: And what was lost in that practice. The focusing of liberalism on "civil rights" narrowly construed as white/black race relations, diverted attention from and therefore annulled other social justice movements, such as a struggle against classism.
    Calvino Rabeni: I believe you can find the "race" card being played - in a negative way - as a distraction technique from those other issues
    Calvino Rabeni: In a way the liberals were manipulated by that strategem
    Calvino Rabeni: And it has resulted in quite a "blind spot" of the liberal progressive movements
    Pila Mulligan: I thing slavery antedates Marx
    Calvino Rabeni: I think it's something that needs to be left behind, or updated
    Pila Mulligan: well, there are many ways to see the cotroversy
    Pila Mulligan: but as an event, the civil rights movement was probably the greatest contribution the US has made to world history
    Calvino Rabeni: Slavery per se, is a class issue nowadays, and is as big as ever, and is no longer centered around race relations per se. Especially WRT black / white race relations
    Pila Mulligan: yes, slavery continues
    Calvino Rabeni: To consider it so, I think, is too narrow a focus by far
    Pila Mulligan: hmmm
    Pila Mulligan: I'll accept the criticism without changing my opinion :)
    Calvino Rabeni: And is diversionary from what seem to be truer causes of social injustice and oppression
    Pila Mulligan: there are indeed many causes to advocate terms of social injustice and oppression
    Pila Mulligan: in terms of*
    Calvino Rabeni: It's not a criticism, it's just suggesting to look at the big picture, fight the war and forget the recent skirmishes (to get back to the earlier war metaphor)
    Pila Mulligan: I have a somewhat different historical view, however, Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: Could you state it briefly, and I'll think about it?
    Pila Mulligan: I did
    Pila Mulligan: see above
    Pila Mulligan: rather than being a skirmish that distracted from other issues, the civil rights movement was the culmination of the most fndamental controverysies in American history
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't see it as a specifically american issue
    Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964
    Pila Mulligan: in most of the rest of the Western world, legalized discrimination was not as bad as in the US
    Pila Mulligan: it was brutal in the US
    Pila Mulligan: by dealing with the issue, in law, the Us opened the door to social justice issues such as those you are concerned with, througout the world
    Calvino Rabeni: I guess I see american slavery as particular form of a more general issue of economic power and oppression, not specifically defined by race
    Pila Mulligan: that is true
    Pila Mulligan: ut in the US it all fell on the slavery issue
    Pila Mulligan: but*
    Calvino Rabeni: And the social justice issues are still too much (in my opinion) defined by social identity factors (race, gender, etc.) rather than class and power
    Pila Mulligan: it takes time to undo the tribal structure of genetic memory
    Calvino Rabeni: True, and that is important too
    Pila Mulligan: most violent oppression arises in conflicts between groups, overshadowing the oippression within groups
    Calvino Rabeni: That is something worth looking at carefully
    Calvino Rabeni: I actually have to leave soon but we can pick this up again later
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks for the discussion, Pila
    Pila Mulligan: ok, see you later Cal
    Pila Mulligan: bye for now
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