2010.04.06 01:00 - This will be a huge long log

The Guardian for this meeting was Wester Kiranov. The comments are by Wester Kiranov.

From the beginning Bertram Jacobus and Aztlan Foss joined me. A bit later Zon Quar and came in as well. Cosmicflower Ushimawa and Calvino Rabeni came in a bit later.

We started with the usual chitchat.

Bertram Jacobus: hello wester ! ty for being here ! ... :-)
Wester Kiranov: hi bert
Wester Kiranov: it's going to be bit on and off, rl is busy
Bertram Jacobus: np at all. hope it´s okay for you
Wester Kiranov: fine for me, just busy
Bertram Jacobus: hello atzlan :-)
Wester Kiranov: hi aztlan
Bertram Jacobus: and happy to hear / read that wester ! :-)
Aztlan Foss: hi everyone
Aztlan Foss: did the chat just end?
Bertram Jacobus: you´re still a little cloud to me atzlan ... ah ! now grey ... *smile* - no, began :-)
Wester Kiranov: no, i was just saying i'm a bit busy in rl so will be a bit on and off here
Aztlan Foss: i'm just a little cloud to me too
Bertram Jacobus: interesting, these new forms of being : this on and off, i know it too - we all may , right ? ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: now i see you completely rezzed atzlan
Bertram Jacobus: whaow - you´re also a very experienced sl being atzlan ! already since a loong time here ! ...
Wester Kiranov: hi zon
Bertram Jacobus: hy zon ! :-)
Aztlan Foss: I've been on and off here for a while
Aztlan Foss: I left for several years but then I ran the program again
Aztlan Foss: I don't make choices that do or don't commit me to something
Bertram Jacobus: i see. but you are member in many groups ! ? ... :-)
--BELL--
Aztlan Foss: yeah people offer to join groups so I do as a form of courtesy
Aztlan Foss: just click on accept
Wester Kiranov: (shh)
Aztlan Foss: that's the thing about groups, it's like wearing a shirt, you don't have to realy participate to be in one
Aztlan Foss: :-O
Bertram Jacobus giggles a bit ... ;-)
Wester Kiranov: I know it's a lot, 10% of time here is silence, but I think it's nice for a change
Bertram Jacobus: i love that
Bertram Jacobus: and btw : nice to meet you again - saw my notes now i made in your profile atzlan and so remembers me : it must be late in night where you are (!?) ;-)
Aztlan Foss: yeah it's 1am :-D
Aztlan Foss: it's early in the morning ;-D
Bertram Jacobus: ah. that´s not too late :-)
Aztlan Foss: I haven't been here for a while
Wester Kiranov: hi cal
Aztlan Foss: just finished installing linux on my machine and trying out SL
Bertram Jacobus: hy cal ! good morning to you ! :-)
Zon Quar: cal
Aztlan Foss: I was lucky to land here
Bertram Jacobus: yes. and so are we atzlan ! :-)
Calvino Rabeni: hello all
Bertram Jacobus: hello neela
Aztlan Foss: what did you guys do today?
Wester Kiranov: hi neela
Bertram Jacobus: here (in germany) it´s 10 am - so i did not do very much yet lol
Neela Blaisdale: Hi everyone!
Aztlan Foss: hi Neela
Wester Kiranov: i'm in the same time zone as bert - having breakfast
Wester Kiranov: and my sister is here as well, sorting through baby clothes my kids grew out of
Aztlan Foss: cool all you in Germany?
Neela Blaisdale: not me, East Coast US...
Bertram Jacobus: nice lazy morning here - has to do with my work : phone can ring every moment and then i have to start working. but can also stay quiet until around 14:30 (hope lol) :o)
Wester Kiranov: in the netherlands, me
Aztlan Foss: Los Angeles!
Aztlan Foss: :-D
Aztlan Foss: it's funny here we say the city we live in, everyone else talks about their country
Aztlan Foss: I hardly ever say "I'm from the USA" when they ask me where I'm from
Neela Blaisdale: what do you say?
Aztlan Foss: I'm from LA
Bertram Jacobus: may be LA style ?
Aztlan Foss: or California
Wester Kiranov: it would be a bit like me saying "i'm from europe" if you just said usa
Aztlan Foss: could be!
Aztlan Foss: hehehe very true
Aztlan Foss: I think of it like if someone said "I'm from Tokyo" I would know better what they're talking about than if they said Japan
Bertram Jacobus: galaxy milk street here ;o)
Aztlan Foss: lol

And then the subject of parallel universes came up.

Bertram Jacobus: don´t know for sure, whether there are "parallel universes" (?) ... ;-)
Aztlan Foss: parallel to what?
Bertram Jacobus: to ours
Bertram Jacobus: to our universe
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: there seem to be some theories about that
Bertram Jacobus: oops
Bertram Jacobus: and i find it a bit confusing, because "universe" means a bit like "all" to me ... hm - i understand it like this
Aztlan Foss: so how close to our universe would these parallel universes be?
Aztlan Foss: i hear if you change a single thing everything goes completely different
Bertram Jacobus: yes. i can imaging that very well with the changing aspect
Aztlan Foss: like if a single variable was different at the beginning that universe probably doesn't have life in ot or something
Wester Kiranov: They could be any distance away, but in a different dimension. not up/down, left/right/ or front/back but yet another direction we can't imagine
Bertram Jacobus: and the "universes" ... may be they could be very close ... also said in some of thoses theories if i don´t err. may be linked with a state of mind even ? (!) -
Neela Blaisdale: Nice to be here if only for a few... be well everyone...
Aztlan Foss: I want to live in a universe where people don't go hungry
Bertram Jacobus: i don´t see any "absolute beginning" - only relative ones ...
Aztlan Foss: not to be alltruist or anything but I think the fear of going hungry is the greatest destractor
Wester Kiranov: i think you'd have to go far away for that azt :(
Aztlan Foss: you could be having fun instead and not having to build a carreer
Bertram Jacobus: yess atzlan ! i would like to have that too please !
Bertram Jacobus: i think, there may be some tasks to solve, may be this evolution thing and then may be, freedom can be reached
Bertram Jacobus: with all those aspects we´re talkin about here
Bertram Jacobus: and on another hand it´s said that that was all illusion
Bertram Jacobus: but one has to see it, sort of "come through" i guess
Bertram Jacobus: but i see chances for all that ... :-)
Bertram Jacobus: and hello dear cosma - good morning ! :-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hello Dear Ones ;) and good morning / evening
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and all between
Calvino Rabeni: :)) Cosmic
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Cal **
Wester Kiranov: hi cosmic
Wester Kiranov: feel free to join the inner circle ;)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hello Wester _/!\_
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: aahhh, sure !

We moved on to heaven and hell.

Aztlan Foss: yeah I sometimes think the idea of heaven is just something that gest passed down, it might be genetic, as a model for what to aim for
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;) isn`t heaven here on Earth?? ;)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;) don`t they say " same down here than up there"
Bertram Jacobus: *agree* :-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: But hell, that kinda place I have not seen
Aztlan Foss: yea in "the moment" but not when you're hungry
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Heavens there must be looottsss of
Bertram Jacobus: hm - hells ... not easy ... but i think, i saw some too ...
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: wonder if people have created the opposite place only for scare others??
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: as a place
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: in religions
Wester Kiranov: i'm pretty sure being really hungry is a hell
Aztlan Foss: yeah and probably drowning and burning too
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm. but is it "hell" or "negative"
Bertram Jacobus: but i was very happy when i came to know that there is for example even a buddha who helps in those hells (!) ...
Aztlan Foss: it's negative maybe
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: as there need to be balance of energies, all is needed, I think
Calvino Rabeni: :) agree, cosmic
Aztlan Foss: I think the feeling of hell comes from the feeling of pending doom or feeling wrath
--BELL--
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: so that we can feel light too
Bertram Jacobus: yes. and so we can do and change and act and influence. cause and all that. and therefore i would suggest, we focus and stress and increase the positive aspects - why seems that to be so difficult sometimes ? i like to do it "nevertheless"
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ahh, well ;)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: In life I have found out
Bertram Jacobus: may be a question of training, of patterns

And fear versus love.

Cosmicflower Ushimawa: for people it is more difficult to Love, than choose to fear
Bertram Jacobus: changing habits and such
Bertram Jacobus: may be a matter of time
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: the path of Love is challenging
Bertram Jacobus: yess :-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: its more easy to stay in fear, and all that "else" comes from fear, if its not from Love
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: But, perhaps one day****
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: people fall in love every second and stay there ;)
Bertram Jacobus: but "in the end" - "that does not work" ... yes. may be soon :-)
Bertram Jacobus: can always be even in the next moment (!) :-)
Bertram Jacobus: (may not work with eternal fear i meant) :o)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah no need to fear
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: need to be brave, but not stupid; need to honour own living/ life too
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but not need to fear
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: golden middle road is good to walk
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: or midle way
Bertram Jacobus: yes. nice aspects you state cosma
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Bertram Jacobus: btw : at least 3 brave persons here : have the 2.0 viewer ;o)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah not loaded that, what kind it is?
Bertram Jacobus: no idea. don´t have it lol :o)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: or should it be loaded?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah, okey
Bertram Jacobus: i use emerald - love it since i know it (!) :-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: well, I have the one what came with the program when I created my-Self here
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Do not know what that is..... ;D
Bertram Jacobus: don´t want to flood the local with it - write you IM ...
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: aahh, Simo is waiking up, He senses I am with special people now <3 perhaps wants to join
Aztlan Foss: bring him over
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah, yes ;)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: So, Simo says hi to You ;)
Wester Kiranov: hi Simo
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I am not sure if Aztlan and Wester knows, But Simo is my 4 weeks old baby
Bertram Jacobus: hey hoo simo ! *waave* :-)
--BELL--
Wester Kiranov: I wasn't sure whether it was a kid or a pet ;-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yeah ;)
Bertram Jacobus: and - may be better : namaste to simo please ... <3 - (not hey hoo) :o)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: _/!\_
Wester Kiranov: and of course I meant "him" not "it" :-P
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: aahhh ;)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: well, Wester, You never know what we are ;) lol
Bertram Jacobus: oops - what is THIS ? lol :-) - cool ! who is this alana ? :-))

Unfortunately, I had to leave (and os will not comment on the rest). But the others did turn out to have taken my advice to stay a bit longer to heart.

Wester Kiranov: But I am sorry, I do have to go. Feel free to stay a bit longer if you want
Wester Kiranov: namaste
Bertram Jacobus: bye wester - have a nice time
Wester Kiranov: bye
Bertram Jacobus: does she move to you atzlan ? ;-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Bye Wester, Nice to see You
Aztlan Foss: lol
Aztlan Foss: sorry
Aztlan Foss: nah, just sent me an invite
Aztlan Foss: she's going to marry some army guy that was based in germany
Bertram Jacobus: but sounds like a sl love which went real now (?) :-)
Bertram Jacobus: ah yes. i see
Bertram Jacobus: great
Aztlan Foss: have you guys heard of SL loves going real?
Bertram Jacobus: sure. lol. i had one already myself ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: i lasted around 2 years. was nice.
Bertram Jacobus: bit more
Bertram Jacobus: may have been two and a half
Bertram Jacobus: and i know it from others, too
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: well, why not. You never know where to find True Love ;)
Bertram Jacobus: and cal fell also in love i guess
Bertram Jacobus: with hats now :o)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ahh, and I have felt in love with all beautifull cowns and dresses
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and those are not eaven expensive here ;)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: lol
Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni has 2 hats, is that OK for love?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: nice shopping ;)
Bertram Jacobus: saw him with a cap some days ago, all new ... ;-)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah yes
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: of course ;)
Calvino Rabeni: Can love more than one - OK
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: One can fall in love for what ever ;)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;D
Bertram Jacobus: :-))
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I felt in love one morning to water drops
Bertram Jacobus: wonderful !
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: those were on the trees when snow has melted on water to trees
Bertram Jacobus: yes. beautyful ...
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and sun shined on them, I could see rainbows in little water drops
Bertram Jacobus: awwww how nice ! ...
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: on my backyard
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: need to get a bit more sun, so I can take a pic
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: now its gray weather here
Bertram Jacobus: ok
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: have anyone read the book of Elisabeth Haich
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Initiation
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think that is good, tells about egypt times back there
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: sry. was phone here
Bertram Jacobus: read that book - yeah (!)
Bertram Jacobus: veery special
Bertram Jacobus: (now all absent) :o)
Bertram Jacobus: only bodies here, no minds ;-)
Bertram Jacobus: as it seems
Bertram Jacobus: "so" i´ll leave - have a great time all - and may all beings be happy please ! *wave* ...
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: we are here
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: okey, Have Fun Bert
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and Enjoy
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: say hello to Fay
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
Bertram Jacobus: ty all !
Calvino Rabeni: The day is for talk ... the night is for ... ?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: love
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: no sleep
Calvino Rabeni: :) yes your first answer was on my mind
Calvino Rabeni: And then to take it into sleep
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes.
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm. but thinking how much people do deny their love from their Loved-One
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: it is much
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think
Calvino Rabeni: Is much?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and sometimes makes me wonder why
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: well, people who I do know, living in relationship
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: one is suffering from lack of love
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: because another do deny his/her love
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: at night time
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Perhaps just met the kind pair who have this kind of proplem
Calvino Rabeni: I have seen that of course with friends
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes, but thinking if love someone, how come can deny love then
--BELL--
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Do not understand
Calvino Rabeni: true
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and I think that is also very good healing method
Calvino Rabeni: :) agree
Calvino Rabeni: Do you ever ask them why?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Yes I have asked
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: answer is "i do not know"
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: or "have no energy"
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: or "hedeick"
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: or what ever
Calvino Rabeni: "tired"
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I use to think hedeick will fade a way with it
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: tired
Calvino Rabeni: or "it seems a duty"
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: is mostly
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: that is very sad if people feel it to be a duty
Calvino Rabeni: or "I have to be clear in the head for work tomorrow"
Calvino Rabeni: But when tired, it is possible to bring more energy?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes I think
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and also head can be clear
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: too
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think
Calvino Rabeni: It helps if they have the ability to leave their concerns and worries aside for a while
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: if not "travelled" very high or far
Calvino Rabeni: to let go the burden
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but if it is as a duty for people
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: what is the cure for that feeling?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: just let it be? not ask for, or wait for it?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: giving time?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: how to help those who feels so
Calvino Rabeni: A very good question
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and difficult
Calvino Rabeni: That person must deny themselves, in other ways also
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: without making them feel quilty
Calvino Rabeni: true
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: the one who feels duty or the one who do not "get"
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: or both?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I thnk its good to say "shall it happen your will"
Calvino Rabeni: good point!
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but how people learn to say so
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: as well if one do deny their love..
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: shoud then ajso say
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: shall it happen your will
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think it should, if not. isn`t it ruling over?
Calvino Rabeni: It seems tricky, sometimes the will may make wrong choices, but it must be honored anyway
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but how to awoid not denying one_self then?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah yes
--BELL--
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: life might be full of questions to solve
Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps there are times when one needs to contradict the will of one's loved one, but affirm the spirit? If so, how to make that understood....
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ahh well, of course there can also create an connection without physical
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but its not that complete then if not appeared on every distace
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: contradict, have another word?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, but the one who would not reach for physical love, would probably also not create a connection with good attention either
Calvino Rabeni: Welcome Star!
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hello Dear Star
Stargate Tone: Hello Dear Cos
Stargate Tone: ty Cal Hello
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: we are talking about how come people can deny their love
Stargate Tone: Hello Aztlan
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe on a phone call again....
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think its kind of puzzle
Stargate Tone: ah yes...got your (Cal) lines
Calvino Rabeni: The question - how to help the one who feels that love is a duty to their partner
Stargate Tone: well...as basicly nobody has any genuin reason to deny one's love, but that's that most of the people do for so many various 'reasons'
Calvino Rabeni: And they feel the need for distance
Calvino Rabeni: Yes they claim those 'reasons' sure, but it does not seem somehow genuine
Stargate Tone: well; think that the truth that each one has free will is the only help anybody can give; to remind of that
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah, just a moment; need to clean up little dear here
Stargate Tone: smiles to this little :)***
Calvino Rabeni: Yes they need to be reminded of having will, and I think also, how to use it well
Stargate Tone: (give's a kiss to him)
Stargate Tone: so...you mean the situation that one is partered but loves also other and denies one's love for the partner ?
Stargate Tone: or ?
Calvino Rabeni: Well yes, "claims" to love, but will not express it
Calvino Rabeni: as at night, when 'tired' or when having various worries
Stargate Tone: and that indeed makes so much suffering between people that I donno anything else to do so
Calvino Rabeni: Then that partner seems to be in a suffering state
Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps the love could have an healing effect, but they cannot accept it
Calvino Rabeni: When people suffer then they raise barriers to others
Stargate Tone: yes
Stargate Tone: Hi Zon
Calvino Rabeni: Why is that?
Calvino Rabeni: It makes harder for them
Stargate Tone: cuz they try to sheald to loved one not to feel there suffering
Calvino Rabeni: I can see that as one reason
--BELL--
Stargate Tone: so; that is never for other people to know if that is the genuin reason or not...
Calvino Rabeni: But if they want to spare the partner from suffering more, it seems, the disconnection causes suffering also
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: reading them lines..
Stargate Tone: when the partner would be able to share; yes
Stargate Tone: and that indeed makes the partner to feel him/herself as the outsider
Stargate Tone: so...there's no solution but to try ...
Stargate Tone: think we all know that one who do suffer, has the pain that can make one to be completely blind to other world
Stargate Tone: so that would imo be the 'job' to the other to try to help
Stargate Tone: sometimes it's must 'just' to honour the other's suffering if it's his/her way to deal with it and get better
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah, yes, and also by saying straight
Stargate Tone: indeed
Stargate Tone: not speaking with riddles
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, when I was at the end of my pregnancy, I did said to my partner why he wont a bit ease my being
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: cos he can not hurt me or child at any ways
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: it did help
Calvino Rabeni: I was asking earlier - if a partner says "no" but it is not a positive will, are there times to help them turn it into "yes" or is it better to accept the "no" that comes from a choice that is unclear due to suffering
Stargate Tone: _/!\_ to Cos
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: well, I have accepted this no many times
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: because can not rule over others will
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: there have been only way to wait
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: or
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: speak straight
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but in a way, not going over other one
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: or rule over
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: difficult situations I think
Calvino Rabeni: But there are times when one can assert will, and might it sometimes be a good thing to do?
Calvino Rabeni: You want to respect a partner, but sometimes people are not thinking well
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I can not deny my love
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I do not know
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: or understand
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: why some do so
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: only know that I am allowed to say what I want or need
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: in loud
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and I know that I must also respect partners will
Calvino Rabeni: What if it is false will, can that happen?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: as well I know there is no life if there is no love
Stargate Tone: sure
Stargate Tone: for fears
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: is it so
Calvino Rabeni: Or, suppose it is the other way around, suppose I am confused and say something stupid to a lover - then I will secretly hope they do not believe or accept it
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: many people do live in relationship one have totally open heart and another have not
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: so to helping situation?
Calvino Rabeni: I think better if they respond to my higher nature, even if it is not the one I speak
Stargate Tone: well Cal...at least I think that words are needed; truthfull words
Stargate Tone: specially if relate is not so 'old' that the other can understand even the opposite words ...
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but soul can not deny love, right?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: mind can?
Stargate Tone: well...mind is the limit to all what human does or not...
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah, yes, so may it be how close we are our souls, if we do look at this life by our soul`s eyes, we also act by that
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: But if we are very far from our-Selves, we act against our highest will?
Stargate Tone: yes
Stargate Tone: and that happenes immediately if one denies one's love
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: thats it is about
Calvino Rabeni: I think, in a love relationship, to keep in mind the soul is the best thing if possible, and it can take courage not to go along with the choices of a mind when it is confused.
--BELL--
Stargate Tone: but yes; that's the prob, that one dont always understand that one behaves based on some fear
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: fear to love
Calvino Rabeni: yes indeed that's the prob :)
Stargate Tone: that's one prob peole have so much
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: what is it to be afraid of, in love?
Calvino Rabeni: A false will
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: its not away from us if we do love
Stargate Tone: the most common fear people have
Stargate Tone: there is no reason, but people imagine such reasons so much
Stargate Tone: people are also afraid to been loved
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ahh
Stargate Tone: Hello Moon **
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: how to help in that kinda situation?
Moon Fargis: greetings my friends
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hello Dear Moon
Calvino Rabeni: Hi, greetings Moon!
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: if one can not accept or take to one-self , being loved?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: tell them they are lovable?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes often enough
Stargate Tone: hmm
Stargate Tone: dont U feel 'alone' sitting now there far Cal ?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, came thought to me
Stargate Tone: having distance *
Stargate Tone: smiles *
Stargate Tone: thank you :)***
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: what do we love in our partner, isn`t it divine thing, their god nature?
Calvino Rabeni: :)) of course
Stargate Tone: we'd also love to heal their fears
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: cant we love that same God-personality without physical too?
Stargate Tone: indeed we can :)*
Stargate Tone: sure
Calvino Rabeni: I am enjoying the blossoms, Moon !
Moon Fargis: ^^
Stargate Tone: but ...well Cos...might that question be needed to ask without this 'we'....and I think that the answer is not anymore so simple
Calvino Rabeni: Especially this pink one
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmmh
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes, You are right
Calvino Rabeni: For some partners, the "we" is not so strong
Stargate Tone: so; to love; that's always bad thing if it's denied
Stargate Tone: but if we speak about to make love; there's sure one thing that people have must to say much 'no', and that's the time limit which sure is the reason
Stargate Tone: so; sure that is also the genuin reason when 'it's time to suffer'
Stargate Tone: and then the main question is, that if the suffering cannot be healed with making love
Stargate Tone: so; if the reason is irrelevant fear; then the truth helps
Stargate Tone: and to speak out is that resolt
Stargate Tone: hm...well...think that to speak could be the resolt always
Stargate Tone: to wait can be needed for learning, if this waiting is observing if has fears to speak
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ahh, well
Stargate Tone: as that's truly so often that one who's got them fears donno that; only feels need to have distance
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: not denying ones love when speaking of making love - it came to my mind also self-control
Stargate Tone: and yes; speaking with good friend can also help to see and understand
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: I always think it is good to wait to see if the learning can happen - but sometimes you find it does not change
Stargate Tone: ah yes; the other's learning dont change, but ment that this waiting may bring the learning, or speaking with a friend or so, and the learning leads to the solution
Stargate Tone: and when there's been not noitced fear as the 'reason', there comes the change
Stargate Tone: think it's mostly needed to speak
Calvino Rabeni: It helps to find a wise man, or a wise woman, to present the matter with
Stargate Tone: _/!\_
Calvino Rabeni: one who is not within the fear
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, but if one is not withing the fear, what if it start to walk with fear?
Stargate Tone: and yes; the more the couple honours each other, the more necessary it's to speak with some 'third' one who knows the coouple
Calvino Rabeni: And friends can help friends become these wise men and women, true?
Stargate Tone: *yes* CAl
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: sharing
Calvino Rabeni: I have the honor of doing this with a fine number of brothers / sisters
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: <3
Stargate Tone: ah yes Cos; that's when we 'come back' to that one denies one's love; fears does that...
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and remember again there is no need to fear
Stargate Tone: sometimes even the fear to lost the partner may mix human mind to be so huge crazy that the one starts to behave that it'll happen....
Calvino Rabeni: I had this experience today - and many of those "imaginary" fears can be let go
Calvino Rabeni: And the brothers had the same experience, so it was good all around :)
Stargate Tone: that's so true, but most of the people needs much help to do that
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, but these people make it a value and an intention to do so :)
Stargate Tone: _/!\_
Calvino Rabeni: "Wanting" to do it and having some success can only open the positive desire to do more
Stargate Tone: but there is also such phenomena, which also is very natural, and which is not so much spoken ...maybe cuz it's not so known....
Stargate Tone: that is the living the partnerhip fully, as that means also coming together, but also 'departing'
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: alone, but together
Stargate Tone: in a way yes
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: sometimes I have that kind of feeling
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: being "we" but still "me"
Moon Fargis: hmm its natural to depart ?
Stargate Tone: as when two persons comes quite 'one', there comes the natural need to depart that wouldnt' truly come to be one
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but might it be also if partners are much different
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: meaning interest in physical level
Stargate Tone: when that is not understood, that feeling can also misslead to depart more than would be the true need
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: the feeling of alone-together
Stargate Tone: but that's something that happens by nature, and that is no fear or illusion
Stargate Tone: and THAT is the phrase when love is the 'main role player' indeed
Stargate Tone: ah no; I mean truly the feeling of the need to deapart to stay as oneself
--BELL--
Stargate Tone: that often comes as the feeling to been stepped into the trap
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes, stay as one-Self as spirit
Stargate Tone: yes
Moon Fargis: well 2 legs run better than one
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: lol
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;)
Moon Fargis: but each for itself
Stargate Tone: ah yes; Your those words brings to my mind the very common fear to love
Stargate Tone: that one is afraid to lost one's own will....
Stargate Tone: that closes sooooooooo many people's heart specially these days
Moon Fargis: well i think most are also afraid to love someone cus of the high time invest in it , people are focused to work
Moon Fargis: and job
Moon Fargis: business, carrier
Stargate Tone: that's based on the fear that shelter or food supplies would end ...
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: But it can be said "I am Yours" without it means "you own me" ??
Stargate Tone: yes Cos
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I have said that "I am Yours"
Stargate Tone: so well said
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and I think it do not mean someone do own a person
Stargate Tone: exactly
Stargate Tone: well; I have called one person in SL as my Master, and he asked; but your not my slave
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: So there should not be a reason for fear to loose, right?
Stargate Tone: as he just wanted to conferm what he understood from my tone, as he could read that too, and sure he was/is right
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: <3
Stargate Tone: well; nobody can loose anything one has never even owned...
Stargate Tone: and nobody can genuinly own an other person
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes
Calvino Rabeni: I feel, for a partnership to work there must also be the sense of serving something greater, either together, or if separately, in a way that is honored by the other partner
Stargate Tone: and to me that something greater can always be love itself
Calvino Rabeni: yes could be that
Calvino Rabeni: or some kind of "good works"
Stargate Tone: _/!+_
Moon Fargis: *mews*
Moon Fargis: you sit here since 1 am ?
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I came 1,30
Stargate Tone: I didnt...
Calvino Rabeni: Same with me
Moon Fargis: wil be a huge long log :)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I was glad yesterday
Stargate Tone: *
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Sami (my son) wanted to come with me on gym , on bodybalance
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: of course I took him with me
Stargate Tone: *
Moon Fargis: ^^
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: "they" said they should not take as young people,
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but he can stay if he is in my responsibility
Stargate Tone: ah...
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Sami enjoyed very much, he was youngest person there and he did all the same than adults did (he is 8 year old)
Stargate Tone: Hi evangileena
Calvino Rabeni: I'm happy you came to join, Star, and also later Moon, to have this talk - sweet -
Calvino Rabeni: But anyway dear Ones, I musst go since it is about 4AM
Stargate Tone: thank you for invitation
Calvino Rabeni: YVW
Calvino Rabeni: See you all later :)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: after class, the person who did kept it, said she have never seen that little great person ;)
Stargate Tone: Have Good Night love *
Calvino Rabeni: be well
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Ah, be well Dear Cal
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: sweet dreams
Moon Fargis: ^^/
Stargate Tone: so might they have no doubts if Sami wanna follow you the next time too
--BELL--
Moon Fargis: hmm i theoretically should also make sport when i amable to make it
Moon Fargis: hehe
Moon Fargis: maybe ill buy a bicycle again and drive this summer with it
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think he might want to come with me next time too
Stargate Tone: _/!\_
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: He loved it , somekind of mixture of Yoga and TajChi
Stargate Tone: _/!\_
Moon Fargis: *streches* well it was a niclelittletalk even i was too late , but i should retreat now too
Moon Fargis: tea should be prepared and stuff :)
Stargate Tone: **
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: <3
Moon Fargis: see you son my friends ^^
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: See You soon, rest well