Page last modified 20:33, 5 May 2010 by wol

*The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden. This discussion seemed to creatively meander from empathy for Wol's not being able to get to the RL retreat in San Francisco because of the volcanic ash cloud to greater appreciation for frustration and disappointment being part of life and humbling to our 'controlling' selves, to appreciation of NOW as the only moment in time we have, to appreciation of each other in this NOW moment. Upon re-reading the log, it seems that once several of us left at the end of the hour, the remaining group resumed an ongoing topic of their mutual interest. *

Liza Deischer: hi Maxine

Maxine Walden: hi. Liza

Maxine Walden: how are you?

Liza Deischer: I'm fine, thanks

Liza Deischer: and you?

Maxine Walden: oh, fine, thanks, just sitting here enjoying the space

Liza Deischer: :-)

Maxine Walden: how are you enjoying PaB? That's an open question, I know...just wondering

Liza Deischer: well, I didn't expect this question any more :-)

Maxine Walden: ah, sorry.

Liza Deischer: oh, no problem, that's not what I mean

Liza Deischer: but I noticed that to Liza it means something different then to Darren

Maxine Walden: ah, I see. Interesting...

Maxine Walden: care to mention any of the differences? You may have elsewhere but I would be interested to hear

Maxine Walden: hi, Wol

Liza Deischer: well, Darren is more layed-back

Wol Euler: hello liza, maxine

Liza Deischer: he enjoys being here and is interested in people

Liza Deischer: Liza is more critical

Liza Deischer: hi Wol :-)

Maxine Walden: I see. Wol, just wanting to mention how sorry I am that you could not get to SF

Wol Euler: thank you, maxine, I appreciate that

Maxine Walden: Listening, Liza, just wanting to also empathize with Wol's situation, not being able due to the ash cloud to get to the retreat in SF

Liza Deischer: Oh, I understand, I'm very sorry for Wol too

Wol Euler smiles.

Wol Euler: I'm trying to take it calmly :)

Liza Deischer: well, there is nothing practical you can do about it

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Maxine Walden: calmly but perhaps with some disappointment as well, I imagine

Wol Euler: oh yes, of course.

Maxine Walden: Does it feel like the vulcan gods areout to frustrate a lot of people right now?

Wol Euler: :)

Liza Deischer: well, the strange thing is (and I'm not in Wol's poisition) but it makes you humble too

Liza Deischer: one volcano and suddenly we can't move from one place to another

Maxine Walden: ah, indeed! about the powers of nature?

Maxine Walden: and who is really in charge on this planet?

--BELL--

Liza Deischer: but I think it is better to feel the disappointment then to feel angry

Wol Euler nods

Wol Euler: hello yaku

Liza Deischer: it is somehow closer by

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone

Liza Deischer: Hey Yaku

Maxine Walden: in my experience as well, Liza, even though the disappointment can feel deep and very painful

Maxine Walden: hi Yaku

Liza Deischer: yes

Wol Euler: it would be completely pointless and somewhat silly to be angry about this

Maxine Walden: we are empathizing with Wol's not being able to get to SF and the disappointment that would engender

Liza Deischer: true, but some people react with anger

Liza Deischer: not understanding the situation

Maxine Walden: yes, and maybe anger gets the pain 'out' or 'away' in some way,

Liza Deischer: feeling a lot of discomfort

Liza Deischer: maybe because they lost control

Liza Deischer: yes, but the pain is still there

Wol Euler: yes but the "loss" is an illusion

Liza Deischer: there is more comfort in pain

Maxine Walden: say more, Wol?

Liza Deischer: yes, but that is the issue with 'control'

Wol Euler: well, it was never in their control really. Their "control" was predicated on the thing not actually existing :)

Wol Euler: but as soon as it appeared, it proved that they didn't control it

Maxine Walden: ah...

Liza Deischer: exactly

Maxine Walden: ah, that the event, SF in this case, was never a 'given' ?

Liza Deischer: and pain is closer by

Liza Deischer: it is not something you need to fight against

Wol Euler: mmmm, I was actually thinking of "the other people", those who are reacting with anger - as many surely are

Maxine Walden: ah, sorry, let me listen

Liza Deischer: (so was I)

Wol Euler: the "control" in this case is their expectation that their desires *must* always be capable of fulfilment

Wol Euler: and that the world can never stand in their way

Wol Euler: which is a pretty foolish position, really.

Wol Euler: even leaving volcanoes out if it :)

Liza Deischer: people in general can think they can make the world work

Liza Deischer: like we are the ones that makes it go round

Liza Deischer: it is foolish, I agree

Wol Euler: the event in SF was "given", yes, but within the general context of life occasionally ignoring our desires

Wol Euler: hello steve

Maxine Walden: right

Wol Euler: we make plans, we take actions, we anticipate outcomes, sure. All that.

Wol Euler: But we also know that things might go wrong.

Yakuzza Lethecus: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: let me rezz a moment perhaps

Wol Euler: Almost everyone who dies in a car accident, for example, left the house that day thinking that they'd just drive to work as usual.

Liza Deischer: yes

Maxine Walden: hmm, yes...

Wol Euler: I'm trying to find something Alain de Botton wrote about this, about anger and frustration arising from unrealistic expectation, in particular the expectation of total control

Liza Deischer: there is this story of this monk that puts his only possesion his mug, upside down when he goes to sleep

Liza Deischer: in order to remember himself that he doesn't know if he is going to stand up the next day

Liza Deischer: control is a nasty thing

Liza Deischer: but we seemed to have build our world on it

Wol Euler nods

stevenaia Michinaga: and usually pointless

--BELL--

Liza Deischer: control and expectations

Liza Deischer: like we have rights according to our expectations

Maxine Walden: Found myself in these past 90 sec feeling once again, how important it is to appreciate every moment, every NOW moment, as we do not have control,and NOW is all we really 'have'

Wol Euler nods.

Liza Deischer: yes

stevenaia Michinaga: and what a simple place to be

stevenaia Michinaga: here, now

Maxine Walden: yes

Liza Deischer: and it is nice to be here among friends

Maxine Walden: indeed, Liza

Liza Deischer: right now

Wol Euler smiles

Wol Euler: "this is here, it is now, I have tea and cake and friends. Life is grand."

Liza Deischer: :-)

Maxine Walden: ah, beautiful, Wol

Wol Euler: I guess the people who get angry at volcanoes are perhaps those for whom that isn't enough.

Liza Deischer: I guess so

Maxine Walden: hmm, yes

Maxine Walden: maybe those who idealize the 'future' or 'what will be' or 'what MUST be'

Liza Deischer: there is always a goal to be reached of which they think it wil make them more happy

Liza Deischer: right Maxine

Maxine Walden: yes, Liza

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Maxine Walden: so easy to idealize the other-than-now

Yakuzza Lethecus: hi ara :)

arabella Ella: Hiya

Wol Euler: hello ara

Maxine Walden: I am feeling very appreciative of our sharig this 'now', among such good friends

Maxine Walden: hi, ara

Liza Deischer: yes and running away from diappointments they don't want to acnolige

Liza Deischer: hi Ara

Wol Euler: damn, I can't find anything today, my copy of "gatsby" has also gone missing. I wanted to quote that last paragraph, ending "and so we beat on, boats against the current, ceaselessly into the past"

Liza Deischer: acknowledge (?)

Wol Euler: relative to being made happy by things in the future

Wol Euler: "acknowledge", yes :)

Liza Deischer: thanks :-)

Maxine Walden: :), Liza

Maxine Walden: nice reference, Wol, I had forgotten that ending of the Great Gatsby

Wol Euler smiles.

Wol Euler: it's one of my favourite books, I read it at least once a year.

Wol Euler: found it online. "Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then, but that's no matter -- tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther. ... And one fine morning ---- So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past. "

Maxine Walden: hmm, the ceaseless 'quest' so dismissive of the 'now' and expressing the tragedy of such

Wol Euler nods.

Liza Deischer: yes

Maxine Walden: Wol, I am so sorry for your note getting to SF, but very grateful for our conversation here today, which in part embraces your situation

Wol Euler smiles.

Liza Deischer: :-)

Maxine Walden: for your not getting to SF

Wol Euler: thank you, maxine.

--BELL--

Maxine Walden: thank you, Wol, for your openness which has allowed us this

Liza Deischer: you have a great way of approaching these kind of things Maxine, so thank you too

Wol Euler: agreed

Liza Deischer: it turns out to be an embracing for all of us :-)

Maxine Walden: ah, we are thanking each other appropriately it seems as we all have 'created' this lovely sharing experience.

Wol Euler smiles.

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

Liza Deischer: I start to sound like Darren heheh

Wol Euler: heheheheheh

Wol Euler: better be careful of that cross-over :)

arabella Ella: :)

Maxine Walden: Would that be OK, Liza, to begin to sound like Darren?

Liza Deischer: well, I'm wondering about that

Liza Deischer: I actually don't know

Maxine Walden: hi, Mick

Mickorod Renard: Hiya guys

Yakuzza Lethecus: mick :)

Liza Deischer: because I don't know yet what kind of effect it has on other 'parts' of me

Mickorod Renard: Hi Yaku :)

Wol Euler: I suppose that depends on what the majority "you" thinks he sounds like.

Wol Euler: whether "you" think he is a good model to follow (or be lead by :)

Liza Deischer: well I guess Darren is a big softy :-)

Wol Euler: yes, but is that good or bad? :)

Liza Deischer: and Liza thinkgs she is the 'strong' one

Liza Deischer: it feels good

Wol Euler: :)

Liza Deischer: but I'm not going to take of my shoes!!

Wol Euler: perhaps laying down that strength might feel like a moment of relief?

Liza Deischer: hmmmm, I guess so

Liza Deischer: it feels more like fluid

Mickorod Renard: what is the topic?

Wol Euler nods.

Liza Deischer: eh.... good question :-)

Wol Euler: hard to say, mick :)

Mickorod Renard: :)

Wol Euler: that notecard is the last ten minutes or so, mick

Mickorod Renard: thankyou,,,to you both

Wol Euler grins.

Liza Deischer: :-)

arabella Ella: :)

Mickorod Renard: thanks

Maxine Walden: our wending conversation today, meandering through several topics...with openness and trust

Wol Euler: and keeping our expectations on a leash

Maxine Walden: :), yes, Wol

Liza Deischer: :-)

Mickorod Renard: yes, I remember as a newcomer,,the expectations I had were outlandish

Maxine Walden: so we could truly appreciate the now moment with one another

Wol Euler nods.

--BELL--

Maxine Walden: I need to go. Am wondering whether this chatlog might be titled 'Embracing the moment' but will see when the whole chatlog is reviewed

Wol Euler: :)

Yakuzza Lethecus: take care maxine

Wol Euler: bye maxine, enjoy your sunday

Liza Deischer: bye Maxine

arabella Ella: bye Maxine

Maxine Walden: very nice dicsussion, thanks so much everyone

Maxine Walden: bye

stevenaia Michinaga: time to go as well

Wol Euler: bye steve, take care

Liza Deischer: bye Steve

arabella Ella: bye Steve

Liza Deischer is smiling about Wol bringing back symmetrie

arabella Ella: :)

Wol Euler: :)

arabella Ella: looks perfect Wol

arabella Ella: Liza ... could you tell us more about your new project it sounds exciting

Liza Deischer: the science project

Mickorod Renard: yes it does

arabella Ella: yes

Liza Deischer: well, it was just fun to be part of it

Liza Deischer: and enjoyed making the lab

Liza Deischer: the idea is of a friend of mine

Liza Deischer: and it is fun working together with people with different skills

Mickorod Renard: have you any corroborated info to be presented?

Liza Deischer: in a way I'm sad that it is finisched :-)

Liza Deischer: what is corroborated?

arabella Ella: it is an end and it could be seen as a beginning too Liza

Liza Deischer: true

Liza Deischer: the land is part of a Sim, with quite some technical people around

Mickorod Renard: sorry,,i meant any insider knowledge being presented?

arabella Ella: did you build too?

Liza Deischer: yes, I made the lab

Liza Deischer: and I made a big mess of it

Liza Deischer: :-))))))

arabella Ella: wow i am impressed :)

Mickorod Renard: he he

Liza Deischer: that was one of the funparts

Wol Euler: :))

Mickorod Renard: learning from mistakes is often the best

Liza Deischer: oh, no, this is an organized mess

arabella Ella: i was gonna say ... who says there were mistakes? a mess may look cool ...

Liza Deischer: it is an abandoned lab and something happened there

Liza Deischer: yes, that is why I liked to build it

Liza Deischer: experimenting with mess :-)

Mickorod Renard: do we have to walk around and work out what,,a bit like the game cludo?

arabella Ella: now you make me more curious

Liza Deischer: well all things are different things

Liza Deischer: no real story behind it

Liza Deischer: there are some gadgets

Liza Deischer: and it is just fun to try them

Wol Euler smiles.

Liza Deischer: and besiedes the gadgets there is some blood and there are some body's

Mickorod Renard: wow,,sounds fun

arabella Ella: oh ... vampire stuff?

Liza Deischer: no, not vampire, think more alien

Mickorod Renard: vampire aliens

Liza Deischer: heheheh

Wol Euler laughs.

arabella Ella: well i was thinking romantic ... edward cullen

Mickorod Renard: is he an alien?

arabella Ella: :)

Liza Deischer: I don't know Ara

arabella Ella: depends on your point of view mick

Mickorod Renard: :)

--BELL--

Liza Deischer: and I dressed up an alien avatar yesterday, the owner having no clue about anyghin that involves clothing

Liza Deischer: it was real fun to do that :-)

Mickorod Renard: where did you find your inspiration from Liza?

Liza Deischer: actually, I don't know, I just start

Mickorod Renard: have you been interested in area 51 before?

Liza Deischer: no

Liza Deischer: not at all

Mickorod Renard: :)

Liza Deischer: it was a theme that suits the rest of the Sim well

arabella Ella: what sort of an alien l|iza - ET style?

Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone

Liza Deischer: no not really ET

Mickorod Renard: nite Yaku

arabella Ella: nite Yaku

Liza Deischer: bye Yaku

arabella Ella: Wol symmetry

Wol Euler: gah

Wol Euler: you broke it.

Liza Deischer: and different people working on it, you get different ways of looking at it

Liza Deischer: :-)

arabella Ella: did i?

Wol Euler: mmhmm, it was correct before when you and mick were together

Wol Euler: correct = symmetrical

Wol Euler: there!

Wol Euler: ty, liza

Mickorod Renard: yeaaa

arabella Ella: ok i thought Yaku broke it ...

Wol Euler: oh, he may have done, I didn'T notice.

Liza Deischer: correct = symmetrical

arabella Ella: this is better thanks Liza

Liza Deischer: I suppose we could spend several session on that

Wol Euler: heheheh

arabella Ella: :)

Wol Euler: well, there's no need to impose my fetishes on the group to that extent

Liza Deischer: I'm afraid it already happened :-)

arabella Ella: your influence exhudes beyond language or chat Wol it is amazing

Wol Euler: :)))))

Liza Deischer: I for one cannot look at this circle anymore without looking for symmetrie

arabella Ella: meeee toooo

Wol Euler: :)

Wol Euler: my work is done.

Liza Deischer: hahahah

Liza Deischer: a friend of mine came on line

Liza Deischer: that's my cue

Mickorod Renard: bye Liza

Wol Euler: goodnight liza, take care

Liza Deischer: cy :-)

arabella Ella: nite Liza

Wol Euler: I shall move on too, actually, time for my beauty sleep

Wol Euler: goodnight ara, 'night mick

Mickorod Renard: ok Wol,,nice to see you

arabella Ella: nite Wol take care

arabella Ella: and go easy on all that influence :)

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