2010.04.20 13:00 - being grounded

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

    greetings and people leaving to go to kira

    Liza Deischer: hey Lia
    Lia Rikugun: hello liza and sartre
    Liza Deischer: en Sartre
    Sartre Placebo: hi and bye, i am yaku's alt on its way to the phil class
    Lia Rikugun: ok have fun
    Sartre Placebo: take care you both :)
    Liza Deischer: you look great Sartre
    Sartre Placebo: it was a gift
    Liza Deischer: ah
    Liza Deischer: have fun :-)
    Lia Rikugun: so its the two of us :)
    Liza Deischer: and that for the 13.00 pm session
    Liza Deischer: did I already gave you this one?
    Lia Rikugun: what do you mean
    Lia Rikugun: oh ok
    Lia Rikugun: is this a new notecard?
    Liza Deischer: I already gave you one?
    Liza Deischer: I can't remember who I gave it to?
    Lia Rikugun: I have PaB information
    Lia Rikugun: but thats prob a different one ;)
    Lia Rikugun: so for me the PaB meditation is new :) thank you!
    Lia Rikugun: hello zon
    Liza Deischer: ok, yw
    Zon Quar: heya
    Liza Deischer: if you're interested, just let me know
    Liza Deischer: hey Zon
    Zon Quar: quiet ?
    Zon Quar: is there a lecture at Kira ?
    Liza Deischer: you mean all those people around?
    Zon Quar: yup
    Liza Deischer: Oh, Zon, Thanks
    Liza Deischer: there is
    Liza Deischer: dream something
    Zon Quar: ah that expains
    Liza Deischer: sorry I'll be off
    Lia Rikugun: oh ok
    Lia Rikugun: take care
    Zon Quar: bye
    Liza Deischer: maybe see you later
    Zon Quar: i visit Kira
    Lia Rikugun: ok have fun
    Zon Quar: c u Lia ã‹¡
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Lia Rikugun: byebye

    everybody leaves me and I am sitting in the pavillion in silence for a while until Wol comes :)

    Lia Rikugun: hello wol!
    Wol Euler: hello lia
    Wol Euler: how are you today, lia?
    Lia Rikugun: well i am good but more importantly how are you?
    Lia Rikugun: stuck in germany?
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: stuck in germany, indeed.
    Wol Euler: there are worse places to be, I suppose.
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Lia Rikugun: maybe you can still use this week for meditation?
    Wol Euler: I'm trying :)
    Lia Rikugun: yes very good :)

    exploding work..

    Wol Euler: actually I'm wishing I had kept my mouth shut and pretended to have gone.
    Lia Rikugun: why?
    Wol Euler: Work has exploded in a frenzy of allegedly important, allegedly urgent stuff
    Lia Rikugun: oh wow
    Wol Euler: though much of the frenzy concerns things that have been in place, unchanged, for up to ten months.
    Lia Rikugun: haha
    Wol Euler: i.e. they are urgent now because nobody gave a damn to look at them at any time during the last year
    Lia Rikugun: maybe this opens up to new possibilities
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Lia Rikugun: change things that havent changed in a long time
    Lia Rikugun: ;)
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: sure, the changes are not unreasonable
    Lia Rikugun: i like change
    Wol Euler: I'm just amused at the (to my mind) dissonance between their alleged importance now, and the fact that they were not important enough to look at for a year
    Lia Rikugun: maybe because there is nothing else to do haha, people always find work somewhere
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: that is part of it, I think.
    Wol Euler: my bosses like to feel that they are working on the most important currently unsolved problem
    Lia Rikugun: like a lot of people
    Wol Euler: for them to have looked at this stuff eight months ago, *before* it became a crisis, would have felt to them like htey were wasting time
    Lia Rikugun: 'we are solving the world problem'
    Lia Rikugun: :)

    holiday at home.

    Lia Rikugun: i was stuck in germany too :)
    Lia Rikugun: well not as bad
    Wol Euler: where were you hoping to go?
    Lia Rikugun: i wanted to make a trip to madrid
    Wol Euler: ah
    Lia Rikugun: for 3 days
    Wol Euler: nice
    Lia Rikugun: and well it didnt happen
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Lia Rikugun: but on the other hand, we decided early enough to not even go to the airport
    Wol Euler nods
    Lia Rikugun: and deal with the chaos there but instead stay in aachen and just enjoy being here
    Wol Euler: I am so thankful that the volcano erupted when it did, early in the week!
    Lia Rikugun: and it was great
    Wol Euler: I might have been one of the thousands stuck in an airport for days on end
    Lia Rikugun: yes i agree
    Lia Rikugun: i dont want to imagine myself sitting in madridd still and waiting for the airplane
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Wol Euler: did you take a "holiday at home"?
    Lia Rikugun: so what kind of meditation did you do during the 2 days now if I may ask?
    Lia Rikugun: yes
    Wol Euler: good :)
    Lia Rikugun: unplanned holiday at home but just one day, yesterday
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: it takes an effort to see our home city as though we were visitors to it
    Wol Euler: breaking habits of not-looking and not-going-to-see
    Lia Rikugun: it is crazy what you can suddenly see, things you are so accustomed to
    Wol Euler nods.
    Lia Rikugun: i live in a city from the middle ages and I dont even see it anymore, it is crazy
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Lia Rikugun: only if i remind myself
    Lia Rikugun: and then it is beautiful
    Wol Euler: we lose sight of that so easily
    Wol Euler: pardon the pun

    small sallies and what I learned from them

    Lia Rikugun: before the PaB session i did a meditation or well sally
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Lia Rikugun: which was very energizing
    Wol Euler: I should try that again, it was a wonderful exercise when we did that togehter in Malta
    Lia Rikugun: yes i think so too
    Lia Rikugun: i need to be in the right mood
    Lia Rikugun: and now I just do it like once a week or even less
    Lia Rikugun: but i think i learned a lot
    Lia Rikugun: about myself i guess
    Wol Euler: from the sallies?
    Lia Rikugun: yes
    Lia Rikugun: how i can handle scary situations
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Wol Euler: worth knowing!
    Lia Rikugun: well i dont know
    Lia Rikugun: at least its fun
    Wol Euler: that too, sure :)
    Wol Euler: but building up a history of Erfolgserlebnisse, and being aware of them, is a very good thing
    Wol Euler: it helps ground you, reduces your susceptibility to fear
    Lia Rikugun: yes, and seeing what arises
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Lia Rikugun: hello arabella
    Wol Euler: hello ara
    arabella Ella: Hiya Wol, Lia

    how to get grounded?

    Lia Rikugun: we are talking about meditation and fear and how to get grounded
    arabella Ella: ah interesting
    Lia Rikugun: but we dont have a solution :)
    arabella Ella: hope i am not disturbing you
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: ach, don't be silly :)
    arabella Ella: :)
    Lia Rikugun: maybe you have some insights :)
    arabella Ella: what exactly are you looking for a solution to?
    Lia Rikugun: to get grounded, the exact formula
    arabella Ella: mmmmmmmm
    arabella Ella: something like H = BC squared?
    arabella Ella: (only joking)
    Lia Rikugun: something like tkae one hint of confidence mix it carefully with strength and then ...
    Wol Euler: exactly, we just need to fill in the variables with real values :)
    arabella Ella: let's reflect on that a bit
    arabella Ella: IMHO you first need motivation to move ahead with grounding
    arabella Ella: no motivation, nothing happens
    arabella Ella: next step i guess could be 'focus' followed by 'self-discipline'
    arabella Ella: but i may be wrong?

    what would be a correct definition of "being grounded"?

    Lia Rikugun: what does grounded mean for you?
    Lia Rikugun: what does it mean for me hm?
    arabella Ella: it reminds me a bit of when i did Tai Chi
    Wol Euler: perhaps that's the best place to start
    Lia Rikugun: find the middle, get the energy from there and trust it
    arabella Ella: for Tai Chi you need to feel physically grounded yet ... cant remember the word ... let the chakras flow?
    Lia Rikugun: maybe
    arabella Ella: and grounded could also be psychological ... or practice

    examples for not being grounded

    Wol Euler: "out of the head, into the body" is part of it for me, I tend to retreat into my head if I don't watch myself
    Lia Rikugun: i can relate to that image wol
    arabella Ella nods
    Lia Rikugun: i call it being too much myself :)
    Wol Euler: being in my head is very non-grounded, very loose and wobbly and weak
    Lia Rikugun: going with every thought and feeling

    examples for being grounded

    Lia Rikugun: ok so we have some exaples for not being grounded
    Lia Rikugun: grounded: doing tai-chi? meditating?
    Lia Rikugun: wu-wei?
    arabella Ella: perhaps we could attempt to formulate some examples of grounding?
    Lia Rikugun: following your intuition?
    Lia Rikugun: (just throwing things in :)
    Wol Euler: cooking :)
    Wol Euler: when I'm in a good mood and not in a hurry
    arabella Ella: somehow 'knowing' things are in the right balance
    Wol Euler: (actually, "not being in a hurry" is essential to grounding)
    Lia Rikugun: yes i agree completely :)

    can you be in a hurry and be grounded? can there be tension when you are grounded?

    Lia Rikugun: can you be in a hurry and be grounded at the same time?
    Lia Rikugun: whenever you need to do something fast
    Wol Euler: I'm inclined to doubt it, Lia
    Lia Rikugun: i am not sure
    Wol Euler: oh, wait, "fast" is not the same as "hurry"
    Lia Rikugun: hm ok
    Wol Euler: hurry implies tension and unease and pressure
    Lia Rikugun: then it is a word-thing
    arabella Ella: depends on how much of a hurry one is in ... if it is 'normal' hurrying then maybe it is possible?
    Wol Euler: fast is just a state
    Lia Rikugun: ok then i can agree
    Lia Rikugun: or
    Lia Rikugun: i am not sure
    Lia Rikugun: can there never be tension when you are grounded
    Lia Rikugun: ?
    Wol Euler: I can be working very fast when I am in "flow", but I am not hurrying hten.
    Wol Euler: and if somebody makes me hurry, I cannot get into flow
    Wol Euler: flow is grounded.
    arabella Ella nods
    Lia Rikugun: yes
    Wol Euler: concentration is grounded

    can pressure be understood as consequence from not being grounded?

    arabella Ella: yes pressure from others to do things as they think best goes against grounding
    Lia Rikugun: for me it seems much more difficult now to define this grounded
    arabella Ella: an example Lia ... like when you are writing the results of your research in such a comfortable way and it all flows quite easily
    arabella Ella: and it comes out right too
    Lia Rikugun: it seems as if you just need to switch somethign inside you and any situation is then grounded with pressure or without
    Wol Euler: "just" is a very tricky word :)
    Lia Rikugun: yes yes
    arabella Ella: if only it were that easy!
    Lia Rikugun: but is this switch really related to the pressure itself
    arabella Ella: switch on or switch off
    Lia Rikugun: or is the pressure only a consequence of not being switched?
    arabella Ella: could easily be i guess yes
    Wol Euler: good question
    Lia Rikugun: so pressure is maybe a consequence comes after not being grounded
    arabella Ella: but i suggest we could look at grounding as a skill which one can practise and learn and improve
    Lia Rikugun: i am confused
    Lia Rikugun: maybe taking circles here :)
    arabella Ella: in what way do you see us going in circles Lia?
    Lia Rikugun: no i thought i was :) with my thinking
    arabella Ella: yes ... how?
    arabella Ella: please say more
    Lia Rikugun: because we already stated that pressure is a sign of not being grounded and now i came back to that point
    Wol Euler: well, that may be true :)
    Lia Rikugun: but i thought that pressure can also be experience being grounded
    Wol Euler: being under pressure prevents you becoming grounded, but had you been able to become grounded you might not have been under pressure
    Wol Euler: a self-reinforcing cycle

    Wol tells us about how she used to become grounded a few years back: through dropping! :)

    Wol Euler: actually,I've just realized something.
    Lia Rikugun: yes?
    Wol Euler: I learned a way of becoming grounded some years back, it was partly breathing and also partly a kind of visualization
    Wol Euler: but ... how to say this? visualizing action rather than creating an image before my eyes
    Wol Euler: what I was doing to become grounded was: dropping :)
    Wol Euler: as we do here.
    Wol Euler chuckles
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Wol Euler: I'd say to myself "put that down"
    arabella Ella: :)
    Wol Euler: and feel the weight leaving my hands, my shoulders
    Lia Rikugun: so you visualized the action of droping the images?
    Wol Euler: visualize is not quite right, but I can't find a better word
    Lia Rikugun: ok but in this sense, ok nice
    Wol Euler: when you visualize, you imagine something as though you were seeing it
    Wol Euler: you create an image, and respond to it as though it came in through your eyes
    arabella Ella: but did you actually do the action?
    Wol Euler: what I was doing was like that except with imagining physical actions and reactions
    Wol Euler: I'd imagine opening my hand, feeling the weight leave it
    Wol Euler: (I did sometimes do the actions, ara, yes :)
    arabella Ella: ah now i think i understand
    Wol Euler: hello yaku
    Lia Rikugun: hello yaku
    arabella Ella: Hiya Yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Wol Euler: like visualization, but with a different sense
    Lia Rikugun: i am sorry will leave you and go to bed soon :) take care you all
    Wol Euler: goodnight lia, take care.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: night lia
    Lia Rikugun: good night
    Wol Euler: enjoy your holiday city tomorrow
    arabella Ella: goodnite Lia!
    arabella Ella: holiday?
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Wol Euler: Aachen is just as good as Madrid :)
    arabella Ella: yes it is
    Wol Euler: holiday is a feeling, not a place
    Lia Rikugun: haha, but i am back to work ;)
    arabella Ella: fantastic idea!
    Wol Euler: ah well :)
    Lia Rikugun: since today
    Yakuzza Lethecus: feel at work like at holiday ?
    arabella Ella: oh wish u best of luck then
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Lia Rikugun: but i will try to keep the holiday eyes to see it as if..

    I left at this moment and wont try to comment the following

    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Lia Rikugun: :D byebye
    arabella Ella: :)
    Wol Euler grins
    Wol Euler: I've taught my boss's kid to say "byebye", it's the only english he knows :)
    Wol Euler: he is 30 months
    arabella Ella: he he
    arabella Ella: how sweet
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Wol Euler: it is, really :)
    arabella Ella: 30 months ... must be a darling too
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how old is he ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah
    Wol Euler: he knows it's special, because he only says it to me
    Wol Euler: but he also knows that it means the same as "tschuss"
    arabella Ella: ah ... he knows you are a special person then clever child!
    Wol Euler: because he uses it at the right time and place
    arabella Ella: brilliant
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    arabella Ella: what's next for him to learn then?
    Wol Euler: it's amazing to watch children learning to think
    Wol Euler: to see them begin to use abstract concepts
    arabella Ella: oh yes it certainly is a wonder
    Wol Euler: I remember when he started to see in colour, at about five months
    arabella Ella: wow
    Wol Euler: he suddenly started saying "ooh!" and grabbing at specific things
    arabella Ella smiles
    Wol Euler: we couldn't figure out what was up, until I noticed that everything he grabbed at was red
    arabella Ella: ah ha ... interesting observation ... and a sign he is not colour blind too!
    Wol Euler: that was amazing, I had no idea that vision happened that way
    arabella Ella: also perhaps the power of the colour red?
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Wol Euler: there's probably an evolutionary-biological explanation why that would be the first colour to see
    arabella Ella: and what do you reckon that could be?
    Wol Euler: many red berries are poisonous, perhaps ...
    arabella Ella: ah maybe
    arabella Ella: i must go now
    arabella Ella: nite Wol nite Yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sleep well ara
    Wol Euler: goodngiht ara, take care
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think i also better fall asleep
    Yakuzza Lethecus: t- 5 hrs
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sleep well wol
    Wol Euler: before what, yaku?
    Wol Euler: hello liza
    Yakuzza Lethecus: preparing for work
    Wol Euler: oh wow
    Wol Euler: go to bed! now!!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus rushes to bed
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: gute nacht, yaku
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