2010.04.30 07:00 - Sky Diamonds

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, who was joined by Yakuzza, Lucinda, SophiaSharon, Diamond Dao, and Zen.

    This day, we discussed working with dreaming, but really more ideas around non-ownership, interconnection, and holding space for one another. :)

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ya :))
    Eliza Madrigal: Where are you?
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't see you yet
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh... there you are
    Eliza Madrigal: (had to pan out)


    Yakuzza Lethecus: so how are you today ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Pretty well. Still getting over my cold, but feeling stronger
    Eliza Madrigal: You?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: weekend :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lucinda :))
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so i am fine, still figuring out what i do next :)
    Eliza Madrigal: That place of 'figuring out what to do next' can seem endless :)

    Eliza Madrigal: Lucinda, something that you shared about your dream circle has been really inspiring me...
    Lucinda Lavender: really?
    Eliza Madrigal: the idea of not 'owning' the dreams and stories you tell
    Lucinda Lavender: what might that be?
    Lucinda Lavender: can you say more?

    Narcissus easily gets 'caught' by his own reflection ( http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Narcissus.html )

    Eliza Madrigal: I've thought about it so much, because it is helpful in something I've worked with the last few months
    Eliza Madrigal: which is that its obvious that synchronicities, patterns, dreams, etc. are a hm...
    Eliza Madrigal: helpful way to to let life sort some things in ways 'beyond our means'....
    Eliza Madrigal: BUT its too easy to get sort of stuck there
    Eliza Madrigal: letting ego sort of see 'itself' everywhere
    Eliza Madrigal: So I've been really inspired by the model of sharing and letting go
    Eliza Madrigal: and yet working with, dreams
    Lucinda Lavender: ah!

    Eliza Madrigal: Hey Sharon :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi :)
    Lucinda Lavender: hi Sharon!
    Eliza Madrigal: We're 'sharing' creatures I think....
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, I thought I'd tell you that because it has resonances here, too...
    Lucinda Lavender: being and dreaming seem very connected to me.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry to interupt, but you said letting ego sort of see itself everywhere?
    Eliza Madrigal: Let me give you a note, Sharon... yes...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)

    Lucinda Lavender: In dream circle sometimes we read someone elses dream...so that there is less attachment...

    SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal nods... and a sense of really being involved with others, too
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Diamond :)
    Eliza Madrigal: that dreams are these gifts to unwrap that may say something to many
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Diamond, Nice to meet you :)
    Diamond Wyx: Hi, it's Dao Yheng actually -- my usual avatar is having log in troubles
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Dao! :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Dao
    Lucinda Lavender: HI Dao
    Eliza Madrigal: Did you try to upgrade the viewer?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi dao
    Diamond Wyx: I did -- and restart
    Diamond Wyx: will submit a ticket shortly
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, well its nice to see you Daimond Dao :)
    Eliza Madrigal: *diamond
    Diamond Wyx: Please go on, didn't mean to interrupt!
    Diamond Wyx: you too!
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, let me give you a notecard
    Diamond Wyx: thank you!
    Eliza Madrigal: Lucinda is part of a 'dream circle', and I was telling her how much the idea of it has inspired me personally, but I think also many of us
    Lucinda Lavender: for me it has been about learning to look for the most universal/on- beyond personal possibilities that are unfolding...as well as looking seeing the persaonal aspects...but that part is the easier part I think


    Eliza Madrigal: yes, how to hold *both*
    Lucinda Lavender: I have felt the unfolding as both personal and non personal
    Eliza Madrigal: fascinating
    Lucinda Lavender: one dream said these words...the universe advises but is not attached to the outcome
    Eliza Madrigal: When someone shares something about their life, whether a dream or what have you, there can be a kind of distance "Oh, that is 'their' story..."
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (brb)
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Ooooh Lucinda! Nice! that reminds me of Avatar!
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Lucinda Lavender: I have not seen that yet
    Lucinda Lavender: hope to
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, you must. I'll sit on my hands and not say more :)
    Lucinda Lavender: thank you!
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh

    Eliza Madrigal: The way I thought this dream circle model is fun for PaB is that we are always referring to "letting go", and there is sometimes confusion about that...
    Eliza Madrigal: It doesn't mean 'not caring' anymore :)
    Eliza Madrigal remembers Stim saying 'sometimes its holding in a different way'
    Lucinda Lavender: no it is more a holding and then letting go pattern it seems
    Eliza Madrigal: Can you say more?

    Lucinda Lavender: letting attention rest in the idea and as in breathing...and then breathing it back out
    Eliza Madrigal: Ahhh
    SophiaSharon Larnia: is listening :)
    Eliza Madrigal: ::::breathes::::
    Lucinda Lavender: listening to the heart brain and the head brain connected also
    Eliza Madrigal: Interesting! Indeed giving both attention
    Lucinda Lavender: allowing for connection on both levels
    Lucinda Lavender: we become super sensing in dream circle too...

    Eliza Madrigal: We've been working with koans a little in the Ways of Knowing workshop, and surely then you see your logical mind and your heart mind, darting back and forth... friction

    Eliza Madrigal: Super sensing?
    Lucinda Lavender: settling in to the body
    Lucinda Lavender: listening with it
    Lucinda Lavender: a sharp noise would startle
    Lucinda Lavender: we listen ing dreaming too
    Lucinda Lavender: but we are horozontal and can be like the skin of the earth
    Eliza Madrigal smiles and considers
    Lucinda Lavender: listening as part of the earth
    Eliza Madrigal: that's beautiful, Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: I have to say it is the teaching of my teacher connie Kaplan
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Thank you
    SophiaSharon Larnia: we are horizontal, as in where our thinking arises, or are your bodies literally horizontal, listening to the earth?
    Eliza Madrigal: 'teachings' can be like dreams too... maybe come through one person but not owned by anyone
    Lucinda Lavender: I attended her workshop many years ago and it was the beauty of the ideas that really struck me as well
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm, picturing everyone laying around in the grass, wondering if we could do that here :)
    Lucinda Lavender: horizontal ...like lying down and listening through the body
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods thank you
    Eliza Madrigal: Pila sometimes talks about breathing through one's feet :)
    Lucinda Lavender: yes!
    Lucinda Lavender: and perhaps there are eyes there too
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Eliza Madrigal puzzles and pictures


    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: places to recieve information?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: both consciously and not
    Diamond Wyx: It's funny how much of life is a dream -- sitting during the 90 second pauses, I'm really aware of being a boy avatar!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: Do you feel more 'awake' because you are out of your normal form in this context?
    Diamond Wyx: body feels heavier, more dense (maybe mind too :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, heheh
    Eliza Madrigal: an empathy tool :)
    Diamond Wyx: possibly a tool for discovering my prejudices too :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: noticing what we don't notice

    Diamond Wyx: yes -- maybe reading another person's dreams is a similar tool?
    Lucinda Lavender: listening for what is being said about the masculine and feminine...

    Lucinda Lavender: I had a conversation with kids at school about this topic of tools in dreams
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, definitely... loosening attachment to our agendas and really connecting with others.. seeing that there are none maybe :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh?
    Eliza Madrigal loves to hear the children's take
    Lucinda Lavender: they are afraid sometimes...but I told them it is an unfolding story unlike a movie or book
    Lucinda Lavender: and that they could go back in a redream the story with ideas for transforming the images
    Yakuzza Lethecus: welcome zen
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm, nice
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Zen
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen! (preparing notecard)
    Zen Arado: Hi all
    SophiaSharon Larnia: how interesting ... so young to realize this
    Lucinda Lavender: There is tho the possibility that what we see in the dream is what we understand and not so personal tho
    Zen Arado: ty Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: yw Zen :)
    Lucinda Lavender: having learned abpout this as an adult I feel it is really a wonderful opportunity for the children...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh yes
    Eliza Madrigal: It definitely seems a 'practice'... getting used to thinking in not just 'me' or 'you' terms
    Lucinda Lavender: yes!
    Eliza Madrigal: not reading into everything, but also not ignoring
    SophiaSharon Larnia: that early, before they are long seperated
    Eliza Madrigal: hmmm yes Sharon
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: maybe closer to the memory
    Eliza Madrigal: My son always dreams about these 'two guys'... one with green hair and one with purple
    Diamond Wyx: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: but just like in 2L they are building the world
    Lucinda Lavender: cool!
    Eliza Madrigal: they're his collaborators for making games on the computer sometimes... like an ongoing comic book
    Lucinda Lavender: have you written them down?
    Lucinda Lavender: great!
    Eliza Madrigal: he draws them
    Diamond Wyx: wonderful!
    Lucinda Lavender: so I think children really get it
    Lucinda Lavender: great
    Eliza Madrigal: Sharon, more you can say about memory? that's an interesting idea and wow could mine use help :)
    Lucinda Lavender: great
    Lucinda Lavender: hi zen!

    SophiaSharon Larnia: i just meant we learn we are seperate from an another as we get older, as children
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Lucinda must've crashed, the sim is bad right now, alpha textures are a mess for me, and the sims around seem to be gone, the day/night cycle seems off too
    Eliza Madrigal: sigh... SL has been screwy for days
    Eliza Madrigal: wb Lucinda :)
    Lucinda Lavender: ty
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wb :)
    Zen Arado: wb Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: strange huh?
    Zen Arado: wonders what alpha textures are
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i relogged because i thought it would help, it didn't
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the transperencies
    Eliza Madrigal: youre right though Sharon... few children have the kinds of walls between others adults have... they'll just reach over and pick the other one's nose...
    Eliza Madrigal: hehhehe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (sp) sorry fingers are cold :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha true
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: with their cold fingers :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: grins

    Zen Arado: so we put barriers up as we get older
    Zen Arado: protection
    Zen Arado: protecting self image
    Zen Arado: that we created
    Zen Arado: ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: protection, yes, but maybe establishing your own place in the world too?
    Eliza Madrigal: seems so... or group image
    Eliza Madrigal nods @ Sharon
    Zen Arado: our own independence?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: as a self
    Lucinda Lavender: pain tho can open one up to the not being in control of things
    Zen Arado: ego wants to control
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: the implications for healing of trauma seem significant
    Eliza Madrigal: in sharing our 'stories', too... holding with others what one can't hold on one's 'own'
    Eliza Madrigal: and not dismissing the personal
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: while still cherishing the 'collective'
    Zen Arado: just on that...
    Zen Arado: was talkingto that movie actor the other day....
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :) Zen
    Zen Arado: not name dropping I assure you :)
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Eliza Madrigal: 'the actor' la te da
    Zen Arado: but he casually mentioned his 'shrink
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah
    Zen Arado: I often find Americans have psychiatrists and psychotherapists
    Lucinda Lavender: Lucinda is smiling and thinking about shrinking the ego
    Zen Arado: and think nothing of it
    Diamond Wyx: it's tradition!
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i dont think we do :)
    Zen Arado: wonder how you know you need one?
    Diamond Wyx: :)
    Zen Arado: drat caps

    SophiaSharon Larnia: we're told its not ok to be unhappy
    Eliza Madrigal: It is a bit of a luxury I think, actually... when a nation's base is prosperous enough to be able to pay attention to the subtleties of psyche....
    SophiaSharon Larnia: or something
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh! That's a great point Sharon
    Eliza Madrigal nodding
    Zen Arado: agree with Sharon
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and yes, Eliza, what a luxury, really, to be unhappy
    Diamond Wyx: perhaps the two go hand in hand --
    Eliza Madrigal: also, we're disconnected from practices like the dream circle
    Zen Arado: we should be happy with being unhappy then?
    Eliza Madrigal: where village acts as layers of support for both obvious workings and hidden?
    Lucinda Lavender: maybe so in a sense...
    Eliza Madrigal nods @ Diamond (who I keep wanting to call Dao anyway)
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh

    Diamond Wyx: I think about those 19th century poets and 20th century hipsters, where being a little depressed is fashionable
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i think they do too Diamond
    Zen Arado: you think I should start analysing my dreams?
    Eliza Madrigal: Why not, Zen :)
    Lucinda Lavender: just listening...writing them helps to call them out
    SophiaSharon Larnia: 'call them out', yes
    Zen Arado: most are just wish fulfilment
    Diamond Wyx: I liked the notion of drawing the dreams too!
    Lucinda Lavender: yes!
    Eliza Madrigal learns much from her kids :)
    Zen Arado: in my case that is
    SophiaSharon Larnia: coming here i slike a dream, when im logged off
    SophiaSharon Larnia: is*
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Zen, maybe that's a way to get beyond that... to dig deeper into them
    Eliza Madrigal: I think so too Sharon, SL definitely 'ramped up' the vividness of dreaming for me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care everyone
    Diamond Wyx: interesting!
    Zen Arado: bye Yaku
    Eliza Madrigal: and more meditation... because its like one allows many different kinds of 'places'
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Ya :)
    Lucinda Lavender: take care Yakuzzaa...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Yakuzza :)
    Zen Arado: I find SL pretty real
    Eliza Madrigal: it is real, in its particular way?
    Zen Arado: it's my friends who tell me it isn't
    Diamond Wyx: that's thefunny thing about it, no?
    Eliza Madrigal nods

    Lucinda Lavender: every 15 minutes tho we get to let go of how things were appearing?

    SophiaSharon Larnia: seriously, i had a moment were everything felt unreal, for several moments, and i thought of this pavilion
    Zen Arado: and not to spend so much time in it
    Zen Arado: I get that in RL
    Eliza Madrigal: a moment in RL, Sharon?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: interesting, like a touchstone?
    Zen Arado: RL is full of illusions and delusions
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i dont know
    Zen Arado: we are learning to see them
    Eliza Madrigal: we make 'most' of it up I'm learning :)
    Diamond Wyx: thanks for the chat -- I'll need to be off as well
    Diamond Wyx: bye all!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Diamond
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Diamond :)) So nice to see you
    Zen Arado: bye Diamond
    Lucinda Lavender: I look forward to reading and need to go...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: lucy in the sky with diamond
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Lucinda :) Thanks :))
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal grins at Sharon
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: bye :)
    Eliza Madrigal: tangerine trees and marmalade skies...
    Zen Arado: bye Lucinda
    SophiaSharon Larnia: which looks like bieup atm
    SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
    Zen Arado: sounds like SL :)
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Zen Arado: but we don't need LSD
    Zen Arado: or do we ?
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Eliza Madrigal wonders how many people find SL so easy to get into due to teen adventures
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
    Eliza Madrigal: ahem
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: teen adventures.....could be a story there:)
    Eliza Madrigal: Lennon insisted that 'lucy sky diamonds' was not about LCD
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ahem
    Eliza Madrigal: in fact the girl it was written about, died last year
    Zen Arado: nobody believed him though ....:)
    Eliza Madrigal: but I think it was about that whether he meant it to be or not...
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe unconscious seeping through :)
    Zen Arado: Yoko is still going strong?
    Eliza Madrigal: seems so
    Eliza Madrigal: Do you know the story of how they met?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i have to go too, bye for now Eliza and Zen :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I think I told you actually...
    Zen Arado: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Sharon :) See you soon
    Zen Arado: ok I better go too
    Eliza Madrigal: sigh, yes
    Eliza Madrigal: I slept late this morning and am still not caught up
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice talk this am though
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now
    Zen Arado: hope you feel better soon
    Zen Arado: bye
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks so much :)

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