2010.07.03 01:00 - Intelligence and animals

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    Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database.


    Bertrum Quan: Good morning, Scath.

    Scathach Rhiadra: good morning Bertrum, Zaldaan

    Scathach Rhiadra: how are you today?

    Bertrum Quan: Fine thanks, ANd you?

    Scathach Rhiadra: I'm fine thank you

    Scathach Rhiadra: have you any practice topics (or anything else) you want to discuss?

    Bertrum Quan: I'm open to suggestions.

    Scathach Rhiadra: :) the best way to be

    Bertrum Quan: Have you participated in the Time dicussions?

    Scathach Rhiadra: no, unfortunately the time it is held is during the working day in Europe

    Bertrum Quan: And it is very early in the morning PDT. Too early for me.

    Scathach Rhiadra: oh well, it can never suit everyone with the different timezones

    Bertrum Quan: But the illusion of Time passes nonetheless.

    Scathach Rhiadra: true

    Bertrum Quan: Is it a subject that interests you?

    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, time is a facinating subject:)

    Scathach Rhiadra: but very easy to get tied up in knots trying to discuss it

    Bertrum Quan: Like most concepts that attempt to frame our existence...

    Scathach Rhiadra nods

    Bertrum Quan: Is time passing or are we?

    Scathach Rhiadra: or neither?

    Bertrum Quan: There's that knot again!


    Scathach Rhiadra: maybe it is all illusion, and some sy there is only timeless presence

    Bertrum Quan: An illusion to follow change?

    Scathach Rhiadra: a illusion to get lost in?

    Bertrum Quan: or an illusion in which to try to root oneself?

    Scathach Rhiadra: do you mean to root oneself in the illusion or ....?

    Bertrum Quan: We like to think we exist in a universe we understand--to root ourselves in time, in history , may be an illusion.

    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, I understand:)

    Bertrum Quan: Impermance is perhaps a bit easier to take that way...

    Bertrum Quan: if there is chronology and cause and effect that we think we can explain...

    Bertrum Quan: Does that make sense?

    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, I think so

    Bertrum Quan: It seems to me a everyday concept of Time provides a "reason" for things that happen or do not happen. Aside from the practical--pragmatic need if might serve--- it also may frame a larger sense of the "Why" of events of our lives.


    Scathach Rhiadra nods

    Scathach Rhiadra: I agree, and in reality it can just be trapping us in the cycle of cause and effect...

    Scathach Rhiadra: "an artist once a picture painted, of such a monster that he fainted..."

    Bertrum Quan: Exactly that. Attachment to cause and effect (in a larger sense) creates a great deal of suffering.

    Scathach Rhiadra: good morning Zen

    Zen Arado: Hi Scath

    Scathach Rhiadra: I will give you a notecard

    Zen Arado: Hi Zal,Bert

    Zen Arado: thanks Scath

    Bertrum Quan: I've fopund it interesting how when something tragic happens, there is an enormous push to find out "why." As if understaning the cause on effect changes anything. The space shuttle disintegrates upon return to earth but is we find out why--damaged heat tiles--then we feel we have control somehow, and we feel a bit better in the short term. But the control is an illusion--which for me in this sense is related to cause and effect and to our sense of time.

    Zen Arado: Hi Yaku

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone

    Scathach Rhiadra: good morning Yakuzza

    Bertrum Quan: Hi Yakuzza

    Zen Arado: you are onigokkoing!

    Scathach Rhiadra: :))

    Yakuzza Lethecus: stop

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i left when they did that

    Yakuzza Lethecus: didn't know it saved that state

    Zen Arado: I suppose attempting to understand things is a form of control then

    Zen Arado: an attempt to 'solidify' things in a way

    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, Bertrum, if we can explain or understand the 'past' or think we can control the future we never have to be really present


    Bertrum Quan: I agree with that Scath. And what Zen just observed speaks to me as well.

    Scathach Rhiadra nods

    Zen Arado: but by thinking about 'time' maybe we can also get past our usual conventional illusions that trap us into always thinking about the past and future and notice that the present is all there really is

    Bertrum Quan: That is cetrainly the challenge!

    Bertrum Quan: certainly

    Scathach Rhiadra nods

    Zen Arado: but we will always wonder about these things anyway cos that's what humans do ?

    Scathach Rhiadra: :) yes

    Bertrum Quan: indeed.

    Zen Arado: that' what distinguishes us from the other animals on this planet

    Bertrum Quan: Do we know that?

    Zen Arado: we elevate intelligence and reasoning power anyway

    Zen Arado: and downgrade the abilities of other animals

    Zen Arado: I think

    Bertrum Quan: Yes, and that is also that sense of control that we mentioned earlier.

    Scathach Rhiadra nods

    Zen Arado: yes maybe

    Zen Arado: it allows us to treat them badly too

    Zen Arado: because we think we are so superior

    Zen Arado: ?

    Yakuzza Lethecus: when i see a moskito it's not an animal it's just an annoying thing that needs my blood, steals my sleep and hurts me

    Yakuzza Lethecus: me rational brains is totally gone then

    Zen Arado: yet it has a little life of it's own Yaku and sees you as an essential food supply :)

    Bertrum Quan: The sentient beings that make up the world as we know it are really key to many aspects of the mystery.

    Bertrum Quan: I agree with you there is a tendancy to place a control element in to the equation.

    Zen Arado: I don't think other animals have a sense of time do you?

    Bertrum Quan: I don't know.

    Zen Arado: from living with a dog I suspect they live veru much in the present

    Zen Arado: though we can never know for sure I guess

    Bertrum Quan: I'm not so sure having seen a pet clearly mourn the passing of one of his human pack. To me it suggested a reflection and sense of what was "past" as well as living in the present.


    Zen Arado: ah yes what was the name of that dog that went to his dead owners grave every day?

    Scathach Rhiadra: well its time for me to go:)

    Scathach Rhiadra: have a good weekend everyone

    Zen Arado: bye Scath

    Zen Arado: you too

    Bertrum Quan: You too, Sacth. Take care.

    Scathach Rhiadra: Namasté

    Zen Arado: Greyfriars Bobby

    Zen Arado: http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK...yfriarsBob.htm

    Zen Arado: I have to go too

    Zen Arado: bye

    Bertrum Quan: bye Zen

    Bertrum Quan: I ought to be signing off well. Have a great day, Yakuzza.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye bert

    Yakuzza Lethecus: and dzen

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