2010.07.20 07:00 - Trust of Falling into Being

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways.
    In which a topic does not settle in for a half hour.  Then gets really rolling and goes past how long I can stay.

        Riddle Sideways: good Morning, my Friend
        Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Riddle.
    Bruce Mowbray: Lovely red scarf your wearing this morning.
    Riddle Sideways: TY, I may have rez'd on the wrong side of the bed today
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, at least you've rezzed SOME where. . . I'm still waiting for that.
    Riddle Sideways: I really like your T-shirt statement
    Bruce Mowbray: I'll give you one for optional wear -- later and wherever. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Yaku.
    Riddle Sideways: hello, my friend
    Riddle Sideways: [as I was reminded Avastu use to say]
    Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Riddle. I felt his "friendship" in a visceral way - even though I'd never met Avastu before that night (2 nights ago).
    Riddle Sideways: was a hard person to chat with
    Riddle Sideways: said very little and repeated the same very deep statements
    Riddle Sideways: hard to argue any points with someone who is so right
         Riddle Sideways: morning, Alana
        Alana Genira: good moning
    Alana Genira: :)
        Alana Genira: may I join you?
        Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Alana.
        Riddle Sideways: yes, certainly
    Alana Genira: thank you
        Alana Genira: morning Bruce
        Riddle Sideways: there is a notecard that explains more about our group
        Alana Genira: thanks
         Riddle Sideways: on the rotating ball
    Bruce Mowbray: I'm a bit uncomfortable discussion another avi when he/she's not present but - I will say this about the style of communication:
    Bruce Mowbray: it seemed quite Q and A -- Almost like an interrogation. . .
    Bruce Mowbray: Like a guru questioning a disciple - with a pre-defined agenda and destination.
    Bruce Mowbray: I backed out of it and just listened (for a change) because that sort of discourse makes me quite uncomfortable,
    Riddle Sideways: yes, the normal chat here is more mutual colaboration
    Bruce Mowbray: precisely so, yes.
    Bruce Mowbray: as if we're all collaborating on a koan or -- if you'll excuse the metaphor - a Riddle.
    Bruce Mowbray: but with no set "right" answer.
    Bruce Mowbray: more a voyage of discovery that we take together
    Riddle Sideways: no excuse neccessary, I live my life that way
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Riddle Sideways: very few times that life, the universe and everything is not a riddle, mystery adventure
    Riddle Sideways: big happy ride
    Bruce Mowbray: can't think of one of those times at the moment, actually.
    Bruce Mowbray: [when it's NOT a mystery-adventure]
    Bruce Mowbray: This your first time at the fountain, Alana?
           Took me the longest time to find the PaB info postcard in my inventory.
    Alana Genira: Thank you, I already grabbed one tho
    Alana Genira: :)
    Alana Genira: yes, it is
    Riddle Sideways: sometimes it is a small fun play to think you know "something"/anything
    Bruce Mowbray: welcome, indeed.
    Alana Genira: thanks
    Riddle Sideways: I just have to do something about the mess my inventory is in
    Riddle Sideways: I can't find anything
    Bruce Mowbray: Is your inventory a koan, Riddle?
    Alana Genira: I had to do that myself
    Riddle Sideways: welcome.
    Alana Genira: took me 3 hours to sort everything
    Bruce Mowbray: You do "know" about the search function with the inventory, right?
    Riddle Sideways: we record our chats for the web log. Is it okay if we include your comments?
    Alana Genira: yes
    Riddle Sideways: ah, search works if you have a clue what it might be named :)
    Alana Genira: hehe
    Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
         Riddle Sideways: Hello, Eliza
    Bruce Mowbray: yes - - - when items come into my inventory, I always try to name them so I can remember them later.
        Eliza Madrigal: Hi Riddle :)
        Bruce Mowbray: Good morning, Eliza.
        Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce, Ya, Alana (nice to meet you)
        Alana Genira: Hello, nice to meet you too
        Alana Genira: :)
        Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Riddle Sideways: Eliza, where in the world are you today?
    Eliza Madrigal: A hot and humid Miami, Riddle :)
    Riddle Sideways: Ah, Miami in July !!!!!
    Alana Genira: Seems as tho it is hot and humid everywhere the past few weeks
    Eliza Madrigal: true...
    Bruce Mowbray: Yep -- it sure is here in Ohio.
    Alana Genira: as it is in NY
    Alana Genira: :p
    Eliza Madrigal: And yes, Miami in July... almost like Miami in August...
    Alana Genira: praise the a/c
    Riddle Sideways: Sorry, not here. It is high of 63 today
    Eliza Madrigal: sigh
    Eliza Madrigal: sounds wonderful
    Alana Genira: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: Do you live in a mountainous area Riddle?
    Riddle Sideways: no, by the coast and the fog comes in
    Eliza Madrigal: oh, how wonderful
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, I suppose it would be difficult to be a small elephant living in the mountains
    Riddle Sideways: small elephants can live anywhere
    Riddle Sideways: except shopping malls
    Alana Genira: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: too many mice
    Riddle Sideways: I am at a loss for a topic today
    Riddle Sideways: I read lots of Avastu stuff
    Riddle Sideways: and am full and empty now
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe

    Bruce Mowbray: Has anyone attempted a voyage of "mere appearance" with the heat and humidity?
    Bruce Mowbray: Seems a bit curious to me that we give "thingness-existence" to a temperature and atmospheric condition.
    Eliza Madrigal: not much left to say after 'you're already everything and always have been' perhaps...
    Riddle Sideways agrees
    Riddle Sideways: Bruce, for me it is easier to do then with cold
    Bruce Mowbray wonders if "existence" is evoked by contrasts.
    Bruce Mowbray: hot-cold. . .
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: "not purple" is as much a label as "purple" you mean ?
    Bruce Mowbray: I give existence to the iced tea because it is cold - compared to the heat/humidity of the day.
    Riddle Sideways: as bad as thinking in opposing concepts is. It is how many ppl do the world.
    Riddle Sideways: and is a nice visit
    Riddle Sideways: but would not like to stay in the dualism for too long
    Bruce Mowbray: . . . . agreed about the dualism. . . But how nice it is to walk into a cool room after being outside in the heat/humidity - - -
    Riddle Sideways: maybe take a different point of view every 15 minutes

    Eliza Madrigal wonders if anyone has heard the story of the 'red shoes' but then fears she would not tell the story well enough to convey why she brings it up...

    Riddle Sideways: however, your mother says you'll catch a cold that way
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Bruce Mowbray thinks about going back outside for a different point of view. . . changes his mind. Decides to obey mother.
    Riddle Sideways: there was a book/movie Red Shoes
    Bruce Mowbray wants to hear the story about red shoes, no matter how garbled.
    Riddle Sideways: but, am intrigued about how it connects
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, the red shoes were never the problem... the girl desires the red shoes so much, but once she has them they won't let her go
    Eliza Madrigal: the story is told as though the shoes have power, that she wants to dance, and then cannot 'stop' dancing
    Eliza Madrigal: so a nice visit, but not great if you 'have' to stay...
    Riddle Sideways: like those anigokko
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehehe

    Riddle Sideways wonders how long a "stay" is
    Riddle Sideways: many think we have to "stay" in this life for a lifetime
    Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Riddle Sideways: then they get depressed
    Riddle Sideways: some think it is just a visit
    Riddle Sideways: and are happy visiting
    Riddle Sideways: this "your point of view" crap is so interesting
        Alana Genira: I have to go, I'm sorry.
        Eliza Madrigal: Bye Alana, see you again perhaps
        Bruce Mowbray: Do come back, Alana. Good to meet you.
        Alana Genira: It was very nice to meet you all.
        Alana Genira: I will :)
        Riddle Sideways: well thanks for visiting, ya'll come back soon
        Eliza Madrigal: You too :)
        Bruce Mowbray: bye.
        Alana Genira: Take care.
        Alana Genira: bye!

    Finally, a topic
    Eliza Madrigal: Riddle, what was your pov when diving from the sky? :))
    Eliza Madrigal: enjoyed reading about that :)
    Riddle Sideways: you mean besides the "ohhhhh, sh*****"
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe, yes... though that being part of it is certainly understandable!

    Riddle Sideways: actually got over that in couple seconds
    Riddle Sideways: flying/floating like you can do here
    Riddle Sideways: spin the world around if you like
    Eliza Madrigal: spin the world around... love that
    Riddle Sideways: see it from on high
    Riddle Sideways: actually being in one of those frontal baby carriers like I did to my kids was quite a POV
    Riddle Sideways: complete trust that new parent/carrier knows all/best
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, interesting connection... the way we carry them around, wow yes
        Yakuzza Lethecus: hi gaya
        Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gaya :)
    Riddle Sideways: they think we know/are all
    Bruce Mowbray didn't realize that elephants were marsupial.

    Probably a good time to explain (without the photos).  My Av today is a small grey elephant with spots and a red scarf.  Been wondering/reading about different AVs and Alts and presentation.  Many of the rest of you do this.  I had not really ever been anybody else, but this guy in a dress.
        Gaya Ethaniel: Hello everyone :)
        Riddle Sideways: Hello Gayaaaaaa
        Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Gaya.
            Gaya Ethaniel: oh Lord Ganesha!
            Gaya Ethaniel bows.
            Eliza Madrigal smiles @ Ganesha
    Riddle Sideways: sorry.am  not Ganesha
    Riddle Sideways: bad imposter
    Gaya Ethaniel: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: :) wondering about the symbolism of the scarf...
    Riddle Sideways: just a mis-guided heffilump
    Eliza Madrigal: naked awareness can be cold? hheheh
    Gaya Ethaniel: rofl

    Eliza Madrigal: truthfully though, when I think of sky-diving... it must be like diving straight into a fear...
    Gaya Ethaniel: or freedom ...
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
    Riddle Sideways: it can be both (and more) at the same time
    Riddle Sideways: probably should be both
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Probably 'both' makes the experience.
    Gaya Ethaniel: makes it if you know what I mean ...
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Riddle Sideways: did not really feel like earth rushing at me
    Riddle Sideways: until the last 50 feet
    Gaya Ethaniel: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: haha, oh my
    Gaya Ethaniel: So fear got bigger as you fell further?
    Riddle Sideways: no, not really

    OK, 2 things I wish/need to address here:    [Soapbox mode on]
    1. "Fear" is talked about a lot in PaB sessions.  If you do a search on "fear" you'll see a lot of great discussions.  It is one of the largest and most needed subjects when we adventurers come together.  It is all important that we talk our companions through it.  It is a blockage the stops not only that person, but all the rest of us.  However, please forgive me... I do not want to dwell on it today.  There are some other topic, issues and revolations just past fear.
    2. There is Fear, Worry, Anticipation, Doubts, Dread, etc. before a thing, activity, adventure, performance.  Then there is the real "During", Doing, Being, Engagement, etc. which went by sooo fast, was surprisingly thrilling, left memories of your lifetime
    And finally there is then the "After".  You're heard to say "That wasn't so bad"
    How often has the event been what you feared?
    Was it really worth the worry.
    What have you done to your-SELF by doubting, dismissing, skipping?  When it happened and not only was it good, but it made you grow.

    Riddle Sideways: but heights are not one of my fears
    Eliza Madrigal: and a guide/instructor supported your 'no support' ...
    Riddle Sideways: sudden stops are not so much a fear either
    Riddle Sideways: yes, going to a place of complete trust
    Riddle Sideways: just let somebody else 'support'
    Gaya Ethaniel: ?
    Eliza Madrigal: yup, that's scary :)
    Riddle Sideways: I was not in control
    Riddle Sideways: I did not have the parachute
    Riddle Sideways: nor the pull chord
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah
    Riddle Sideways: trust somebody
    Riddle Sideways: be the child
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel ponders.
    Taking away all our "in control".  There's the thing, isn't it !
    Join a PaB group and talk.
    Or actually "Drop", Step outside, join all, loosen, start now.
    But, please to remember it does not mean "out of control" just means joining. 

    Riddle Sideways: I have never lept off a stage into the arms of my adoring audience.
    Riddle Sideways wonders if it would work?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Difficulties with trusting for me isn't really me or someone else though ...
    Riddle Sideways thinks my 2 fans could not hold me up
    Eliza Madrigal giggles

    Riddle Sideways: Gaya, what is it?
    Gaya Ethaniel: But handing over complete control to someone else sounds like an interesting experience.
       Experiment?     Extension?    Existence?
    Gaya Ethaniel: lol you talk like me Riddle.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: "What is 'it'?" is one of my frequent question ... ^^;;;
    Riddle Sideways: ah
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well I will have to think more about it. Gaining trust and letting go of control ... both important though.
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... gaining isn't quite the right word but you know you what I mean.
    Riddle Sideways: yes, think so
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Gaya Ethaniel: Do you think the sky diving experience helped you with trusting in general then?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i often wonder, i think i would have trust in a tandem jump, but there are many aspects of reality where i don´t even trust myself 
    Riddle Sideways: in a little way... I have few issues with trust, control, etc.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think it's natural for us to have issues with trust ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: I doubt there is someone who never had any issues with it.
    Riddle Sideways: how big those issues become is ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: That is true ...

    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes yakuzza... it is a little like in ethics, where it is somehow possible to talk about 'big' scenarios as if there is a logical way to know what to do and that would cause one to do the 'right thing'... but then it is really more a matter of intricate day-to-day intentions... "being" even trustful... daring, perhaps
    Eliza Madrigal: (oh, sorry, longer than it looked) :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think it's easy to eat away certain trust.
        Gaya Ethaniel: Hi coRvus :)
        Yakuzza Lethecus: hey corvus
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for me it´s right now about to understand what seems to influence me in what way
    Yakuzza Lethecus: who to change habits and routines and see how that affects my thinking and new actions
        Bruce Mowbray wonders: "Corvus"??
        Riddle Sideways: brb, afk
        Gaya Ethaniel: ok

    Bruce Mowbray: "Control" issues rise for me when I am with someone who tries to 'control' me because of his/her own phobias.
    Bruce Mowbray: I spent yesterday with an extremely homophobic persons - -
    Bruce Mowbray: but he seemed obsessed with the topic of sexual orientation.
    Bruce Mowbray: So I listened to him.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the problem to circle in thoughts on the phobia and not being able to let them go
    Bruce Mowbray: BUT - every time is used the word "gay" he SHUSHED me! -- as I i'd just upset his universe in some threatening way.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i mean the problems before they become a kind of phobia
    Bruce Mowbray: So. . . I insisted we change the topic to one he was more comfortable with.
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's easy to give too much credit to those thoughts ...
    Eliza Madrigal: changing habits, routines, furniture... we are intertwined with our settings perhaps... which is why it is fun to think of no settings... like 'sky'...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: even sky can be a trigger :)
    Eliza Madrigal: and yes, people can be silly about guarding their pet fears ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: blue sky, thunderstorm on the sky, the sunhine after the rain
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: true :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: right now it´s for me an issue to see what´s a trigger and when
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s kind of habituated
    Yakuzza Lethecus: is it me or is it learned
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's not always possible to find those out ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: I wonder if those investigations can turn into yet another round of chasing thoughts.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, it can :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes interesting point Gaya... our best intentions
    Gaya Ethaniel: Stim would probably say "just stop" :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal misses Stim
    Gaya Ethaniel: Me too ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    Yakuzza Lethecus: but letting go implicates for me to have trust into my environment
    Eliza Madrigal: world as friend not foe
    Gaya Ethaniel: So yes ... we are back to trust :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: So I ask what are we to trust?

    Bruce Mowbray: Is it possible to fall out of Being?
    Eliza Madrigal: !
    Eliza Madrigal: O.o
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i can :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: One may think that ... one can give into those thoughts I'm sure, give too much credits.

    Bruce Mowbray: You can fall out of Being?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think so, everytime when i get kind of depressed and suspicous about what have i done wrong, how would i have done things better
    Yakuzza Lethecus: when i circle negative thoughts in an unhealty way
    Bruce Mowbray: I see.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and can´t get out of these structures at all
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think i would describe that as not being
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or is it ,,being pain" ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: can we leave being ß
    Gaya Ethaniel: Surely you are not just those thoughts?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Are you?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no it depends on the situation
    Eliza Madrigal: It is some help to notice that things can seem so totally one way, one second, and so totally another way, another...
    Gaya Ethaniel: That's the funny part, isn't it?
    Bruce Mowbray: But with just a shift, you might fall back INTO Being - - -
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, and to have a kind of memory of that, on either side... yes, like subject/object/both/neither...
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think even with sudden insights, however many, it would take some time and efforts to build up confidence ... and trust.

    Eliza Madrigal: yes, stability in the instability :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: So easy to keep eating away at one's confidence ...
        Riddle Sideways: this is such good chat... am going to just let it go, but I RL must go
        Eliza Madrigal smiles
        Eliza Madrigal: me too actually
    Bruce Mowbray: The "loss of trust in Being" seems to me like riding on the outer edge of a wheel. . .
        Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your day Riddle :)
        Eliza Madrigal: thank you Riddle
    Bruce Mowbray: and "falling back into Being" would be like returning to the hub of that wheel.
        Yakuzza Lethecus: bye riddle
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, nice Bruce
        Bruce Mowbray: Bye Riddle. Thank you.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes ... going home ... :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice, falling home!
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Bruce Mowbray: perhaps like Riddle's falling to earth again.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
        Eliza Madrigal: Thank you everyone, such a nice way to restart the day
        Yakuzza Lethecus: bye eliza
        Gaya Ethaniel: Time for me to go I'm afraid.
        Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
        Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks and enjoy your day :)
        Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Gaya.
        Eliza Madrigal: Thank you :) Namaste'
        Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Eliza.
        Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Yaku.
    Bruce Mowbray: Time to take the dog for a RL walk.
        Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, Riddle.
        Bruce Mowbray: Have an excellent day, and see you later.

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