2010.09.07 19:00 - Faith Hope Love Lab

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eos Amaterasu. The highlighting is by Eos Amaterasu.


    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Ewan!
    Ewan Bonham: hi Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: And hi Calvino!
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Cal
    Eos Amaterasu: and SophiaSharon!
    Ewan Bonham: hi sharon
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi, Eos and Ewan :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Eos, Calvino and Ewan :)

    long, long pause...

    Calvino Rabeni: Well, any reports from the "Lab" today ? :)
    Ewan Bonham: lab?
    Eos Amaterasu: an inquisitive dog
    Calvino Rabeni: PaB Lab - "We are a group of people who use our own lives as a Laboratory"
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Ewan Bonham: OIC
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Eliza and Bruce
    Calvino Rabeni: The inquisitive dog - had some lab results to report ? :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Bruce (and blub)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Stevenaia
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Eliza and Bruce
    Calvino Rabeni: And Eliza / Steve / SSL - good evening to you :)
    Eos Amaterasu: and Eliza and Stevenaia
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi Eos, Cal, Ewan, and Sharon. (I came along with steve and Eliza.)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Cal
    stevenaia Michinaga: eos
    Eliza Madrigal: Good Evening Cal, and Ewan, and Eos, and Sharon, and Bruce, and Steve, and... Blub...
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Steve

    Eliza Madrigal: my skirt works ike a magic carpet..haha
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it flies? :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Cal was wondering about "lab" results...
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Yes.. listening now :) Sorry
    Eos Amaterasu: contributing :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking how it would be if I could see Eos' inquisitive dog, and he could see my woman-in-the-cafe :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Then we'd have combined lab reports
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Tibet.
    Eos Amaterasu is puzzled but wagging his tail
    Calvino Rabeni: heheh
    Calvino Rabeni: So Eos is frisky tonight :)
    Ewan Bonham: I think maybe we are giving our reports
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello Tibet :)
    Tibet Enzo: hi bruce
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Tibet

    Calvino Rabeni: And I learned something about being a great educator
    Tibet Enzo: hiall
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Tibet
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Tibet, have you been here at Play as Being before?
    Tibet Enzo: no, my 1st time here
    Eos Amaterasu: Ah, I'll give u a notecard...
    Eliza Madrigal: Welcome :) Nice to meet you
    Tibet Enzo: thanks, nice meeting you all
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Our chat here is logged and sent to a wiki, http://wiki.playasbeing.org. Is that all right with you?
    Tibet Enzo: no problem
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)

    Ewan Bonham: A lab to me sounds like we are experimenting..
    Tibet Enzo: exploring...
    Eliza Madrigal: looking into something...
    Eos Amaterasu: which has playful aspects


    Ewan Bonham: Perhaps viewing our inner reflections as they show up outwardly from a new perspective..
    Calvino Rabeni: Experimenting - Pema's flavor as a scientist - I like to think we are studying our experiences intentionally and learning from them - both spontaneously and systematically.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Aphrodite, hi MarkAllen
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aphrodite, wonderful hair color
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mark :)
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Aphro..
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Jasmine..
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Jasmine
    Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you. hello
    Jasmine Lordenwych: hello
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Jasmine
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Jasmine :)
    Jasmine Lordenwych: :-)

    Outcomes and expectations...

    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes our experiments take on minds of their own...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, they do :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I think that is the point
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I am always amazed that the outcome comes without expectation
    Aphrodite Macbain: what is the point?
    stevenaia Michinaga: unexpected outcomes
    stevenaia Michinaga: dropping expectations
    Calvino Rabeni: You are allowed to have expectations and study those too :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: sorry just asked for an explanation!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Expectations - can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em ...


    Aphrodite Macbain: are expectations the same as hope?
    Ewan Bonham: looking at expectations...an interesting concept
    Eliza Madrigal: pointless without despair
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sometimes you may 'expect' something negative, hard to answer that Aphrodite



    Tibet Enzo: expectations come from reason and desire...hope comes from faith
    Jasmine Lordenwych: I've heard it said that expectations are disappointments waiting to happen
    Ewan Bonham: ã‹¡ tibet
    Calvino Rabeni: Hope - hmm, a nice flavor of expectations - different than fear it seems
    Aphrodite Macbain: expectations are born from habit
    Jasmine Lordenwych: habit and experience
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Ewan Bonham: And maybe habit of thoughts
    Calvino Rabeni: Personally I wouldn't want to live life protecting myself all the time from disappointment
    stevenaia Michinaga: when I "work" in RL, the result is never known, it is usually framed funtionally, but aestheically it is relatively free until a result emerges
    Aphrodite Macbain: it happened this way yesterday, therefore/.....
    Eliza Madrigal: just what makes that little ol ant.. (hehe sorry)
    Aphrodite Macbain: cant
    Jasmine Lordenwych: :-) Eliza
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Pila
    Tibet Enzo: i would say that we have objective expectations but hope...comes deeper from one's heart
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pila :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods at Tibet
    Aphrodite Macbain: bebut we o expet thins to work in preductable ways othesise it would be chaos
    Eliza Madrigal: otherwise we'd see the chaos
    stevenaia Michinaga: or beauty
    Aphrodite Macbain: like what I jst wroe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the beauty of chaos
    Aphrodite Macbain: like my typing
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: Hello Pila
    Pila Mulligan: ahh, bumping and rezzing -- hi everyone
    Ewan Bonham: Hi Pila
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe Pila

    Aphrodite Macbain: not beautifuljust messy
    Eos Amaterasu: pytos, yes, Aph
    Calvino Rabeni: Chaos - somehow has a bad name - but it's our friend - it is the place where Life actually lives - and seeks out that place
    Jasmine Lordenwych: I keep flashing back to the end of the original "Time Machine" movie - no expectations... no drive... nothing happens
    Pila Mulligan: laggy -- late hellos all
    Tibet Enzo: i tend to see expectations as goals...wishes...things or feelings you want to achieve...but hope drives your soul...
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe enough has happened already...
    Calvino Rabeni: Soul expresses itself through hope
    Jasmine Lordenwych: interesting, Eliza
    Ewan Bonham: Could i expect to have hope?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: what if there is no hope?
    stevenaia Michinaga: hope=creativity
    Jasmine Lordenwych: no hope is dispair
    Calvino Rabeni: No hope - you are dead
    Tibet Enzo: you may have "great expectations" but "huge", endless hope
    Aphrodite Macbain: I think wants and needs are different from expectations
    Eliza Madrigal: I think when hope runs out you stop darting back and forth in time... you stop where you are?
    Ewan Bonham: So maybe hope can get me out of chaos?
    Eos Amaterasu: stop where you are
    Aphrodite Macbain: I hope so
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Aphrodite
    Tibet Enzo: no one gives up hope even just a thin trace of it, while you live
    Aphrodite Macbain: I hope that my typing will mprovebut I don't expect it to
    Eos Amaterasu: yeah, hope has more fundamental ongoingness
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
    Jasmine Lordenwych: I agree, Tibet
    Ewan Bonham: I have hope that I will continue to breath...:)
    Jasmine Lordenwych: lol, Aphrodite
    Tibet Enzo: hope won't take you out of chaos, your actions will...hope drives you to lead your actions to take you out of it...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sees hills of hope rolling
    Eliza Madrigal: but do you need it to breathe, Ewan?
    Aphrodite Macbain: and live
    Jasmine Lordenwych: well said again Tibet
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hope is linked to desire
    Aphrodite Macbain: when I have been depresse I feel totally hopeless. Ther is nopresen, no fture, o meanngs
    Eliza Madrigal: I like hope... guess I'm looking at something... if we're in the lab, that is... can we factor out hope and then...
    Ewan Bonham: I don't actually think about breathing, yet in the end, each breath is based on hope of life in each moment..
    Aphrodite Macbain: present
    Tibet Enzo: hope is the last resource of human nature...
    Eos Amaterasu: so we should certainly play with it
    Ewan Bonham: Perhaps a better word is Faith
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Tibet Enzo: hope keeps you sane and balanced even in the most hard and painful moments...
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes play with hope?
    Aphrodite Macbain: to use a corny phrase, it is the air under our wings
    Eos Amaterasu: we can attend to that as well



    Tibet Enzo: faith reinforce hope...
    stevenaia Michinaga: fugures : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope
    Aphrodite Macbain: hope
    Ewan Bonham: Yes, Aphro
    Pila Mulligan notes that in aerodynamics it is the air above the wings that provides lift :) (with a smile to Aphrodite)
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes, faith hope and I guess charity
    SophiaSharon Larnia: lovely entry on hope actually :) thanks Stevenaia
    Eliza Madrigal: For me I suppose a certain kind of hope takes me into that place of looking at circumstances.. externals.. waiting for something I've already mapped...
    Aphrodite Macbain: f
    Eliza Madrigal: whereas recently becoming friendlier with the word 'faith'... that seems immediate
    Ewan Bonham: So, Eliza, is that connected for you with expectation?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I havetried o typesomethng thre e times
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I would say so... most of my 'depressions' I can trace to hope...
    Aphrodite Macbain: and now I giveup!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (sorry aph :( )
    Eos Amaterasu: Aphrodite is hopelessly afflicted with chaos
    Ewan Bonham: There is lag tonight..:)
    Pila Mulligan: have hope Aphro
    Aphrodite Macbain: typing not hope
    Eliza Madrigal: and seems to put distance between myself and action
    Eliza Madrigal: yes like lag. hah
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Aph
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'll practice listening
    Eos Amaterasu: give up everything, but keep typing!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
    Eliza Madrigal: typing away...
    Eos Amaterasu: heh heh
    Aphrodite Macbain: and enjoying Steve's red dess
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles, this was a gift
    Aphrodite Macbain: gowing in the gloaming
    Aphrodite Macbain: glowing
    Eos Amaterasu: "put on your red dress mama, we're going out tonite..."
    Ewan Bonham: Interesting concept...
    Aphrodite Macbain: grr
    Eos Amaterasu: :-=)

    Ewan Bonham: Back to faith for me...without it, I would find it hard to take the next step..:)
    Eos Amaterasu: how would you describe that faith?
    Eliza Madrigal listens
    Aphrodite Macbain too
    Ewan Bonham: Hmmm...a feeling of quiet certainty that all will be well..
    Ewan Bonham: It is not so much expectation..
    Ewan Bonham: But rather turning over for the universal good..
    Aphrodite Macbain: faith in what tho?
    Tibet Enzo: isn't that hope, too?
    Ewan Bonham: For mwe, it is a frame of mind..
    Ewan Bonham: yes, related to hope..
    Aphrodite Macbain: optimistic
    Eliza Madrigal: I suppose for some they are overlapped or similar
    Tibet Enzo: can we have hope but no faith?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: faith is easiest for me, which is odd i guess... it doesn't stop me from feeling despair sometimes.
    Eos Amaterasu listens
    Eliza Madrigal: one can 'work up' hope... but my sense is, not faith
    Aphrodite Macbain: I hope so Tibet
    Eliza Madrigal: that faith comes out

    Ewan Bonham: Can we have faith in despair?..
    SophiaSharon Larnia: like Ewan said, something steady,you trust tha you will be 'ok'
    Eos Amaterasu: faith can include despair
    Eos Amaterasu: (as in Mother Teresa)
    Ewan Bonham: Yes
    Aphrodite Macbain: we need to specify what we are having faith IN
    Tibet Enzo: no so sure...i have hope, need it, but have "faith" in a religious or philosophical way..it's a process i'm not sure i've reached yet...
    Pila Mulligan: faith could just be a lesson from expereince
    Pila Mulligan: rather than a dogma
    Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods... always find it astounding that Mother Teresa said she didn't feel God's presence at some point... yet continued to act from love
    Eos Amaterasu: these words almost certainly have different personal meanings for us (faith, hope)
    Aphrodite Macbain: a god? science? basic goodness of people?
    stevenaia Michinaga: a process
    Eos Amaterasu: faith in nowness
    Tibet Enzo: or result of painfull experiences or hard times...
    Aphrodite Macbain: faith in a process steve?
    stevenaia Michinaga: faith in a way
    stevenaia Michinaga: a way of doing something, like ..good
    Aphrodite Macbain: is that tust?
    Aphrodite Macbain: trust
    Ewan Bonham: hmmm...that sounds like having faith in myself for some reason..
    stevenaia Michinaga: faith in sciencem kindness
    Eos Amaterasu: faith that there is a way, to do such good, Stevenaia?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: trust and faith are wrapped pretty tightly together
    stevenaia Michinaga: *r
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, there's were things begin to overlap for me...
    stevenaia Michinaga: *or
    Eliza Madrigal: though to 'entrust' seems an act... a gift.. visa versa
    Tibet Enzo: i would say that doing good your becoming a better person is building your character...with or without faith, but surely with "hope"
    Eos Amaterasu: Okay: let's try to rest in faith or hope or trust (take your pick) in the next 90 sec break, and then report
    Eliza Madrigal: :) nice okay


    Aphrodite Macbain: My lag is so bad, I won return I'm afraid. I hve no aith i my server
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Dao :))
    Dao Yheng: Hi :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Dao
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Dao (have you been here to Play as Being before?)
    Dao Yheng: (almost managed to sneak in this time)
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Dao Yheng: very occassionally, thanks Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)

    Eos Amaterasu: Any labs reporting?
    Dao Yheng: Found a bit of faith in scepticism just now :)
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: thoughts on trust... personally... 'only possible in faith'... whereas faith arises... a spontaneous virtue
    Tibet Enzo: don't know but surely find some...hope...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: found myself resistant to hope
    Tibet Enzo: hope is my "driver"
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
    Jasmine Lordenwych: loss of faith can come from disappointed expectations

    Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods Jasmine... there seem different kinds of faith too...
    Jasmine Lordenwych: where does faith arise to begin with?
    Ewan Bonham: Good consideration,. Jasmine
    Jasmine Lordenwych: met expectations?
    Tibet Enzo: i would consider faith as the next level of hope...
    Eliza Madrigal: only speaking personally... no, I don't trust my expectations.. hahha
    Dao Yheng: met expectations can create a loss as well?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ha! yes Jasmine, I suspect it may arise in hope?
    Jasmine Lordenwych: how so, Dao?
    Jasmine Lordenwych: lol, Eliza
    Ewan Bonham: ã‹¡ Eliza
    Pila Mulligan: "three things will last forever--faith, hope, and love--and the greatest of these is love"
    Dao Yheng: just remembering the times expectations didn't quite live up to expectations!
    Calvino Rabeni: Hmm, I guess I trust the expectations of mine that are trustworthy
    Ewan Bonham: ã‹¡ Dao
    Pila Mulligan: expectations are risky business
    Eliza Madrigal: interesting point Dao... yes, or they do and 'then what'... hope has one moving on to the 'next thing'
    Tibet Enzo: if your expectations are too tangible...you may think that there's no need of hope, faith or trust...
    Ewan Bonham: So, perhaps for me this is a full circle..
    Ewan Bonham: Faith, Hope, Expectations, Faith, hope..
    Tibet Enzo: rise your expectations and hope /faith will come forward...
    stevenaia Michinaga: getting dizzy
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe Steve
    Jasmine Lordenwych: lol, Steve
    Ewan Bonham: lofty..
    Eos Amaterasu: sometimes you get what you need, & then you meet your world
    stevenaia Michinaga: the gullible continue to be so, trust is to great to let go of
    Jasmine Lordenwych: ouch, eos - a learning opportunity?
    Ewan Bonham: making friends with my world..
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :) Ewan
    Eos Amaterasu: something bounces back at you
    Eos Amaterasu: (another lab :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: I heard faith described lately as a willingness to fully live, along with an existential condition that life is utimately unknowable, and to come to terms with that not-knowing
    Jasmine Lordenwych: :-)
    Jasmine Lordenwych: I like that def, Calvino
    Pila Mulligan: sounds complex but accurate Cal
    Ewan Bonham: Fullylive with Unknowing?
    Eos Amaterasu: yeah, there's no choice anyway, Cal :-)
    Dao Yheng: beautiful, cal!
    Calvino Rabeni: @eos, indeed
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Eliza Madrigal: "Not knowing is most intimate"
    Eos Amaterasu: ummmmm

    Calvino Rabeni: Another version - Can one fully live without insisting on safe pre-knowledge of everything
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you for a very nice session Eos, everyone
    Calvino Rabeni: The pre-knowledge tends to be boring anyway
    Eos Amaterasu: one may keep insisting till the cows come home
    Jasmine Lordenwych: Yes, time for me to leave also. Goodnight.
    Tibet Enzo: lol, that's our nature...
    Pila Mulligan: bye Eliza
    Eos Amaterasu: thnx, Eliza & co
    Eliza Madrigal: Night :) zzzz
    Pila Mulligan: ... and Jasmine
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Eliza
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm on my way too .. thanks everyone :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Jasmine
    Calvino Rabeni: Take care, be well :)
    Ewan Bonham: Night all...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Calvino :)
    Pila Mulligan: and Ewan and Cal
    Dao Yheng: night all, thank you!
    Eos Amaterasu: good night, dearest pavilon guests
    Pila Mulligan: and Dao

    Ewan Bonham: Very interesting and applicable tonight..
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks so much, G'night. Glad you came Dao! (and all of course)
    Calvino Rabeni: <3 Eos
    SophiaSharon Larnia: great, yes Ewan :)
    Tibet Enzo: good night nad have a safe path...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm off as well, good night evryone :))

    Eos Amaterasu: midnight bell here :-)
    Pila Mulligan: bye Sharon
    Eos Amaterasu: spooky effects
    Pila Mulligan: any recommendations for a browser to replace Emerald?
    Eos Amaterasu: Not much personal knowledge there - im on v2


    Pila Mulligan: bye Tibet
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Pila Mulligan: V2 has not played well iwht me so far
    Pila Mulligan: after trying a few donwloads each time I get the German version :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: that will change tomarrow when you will ahve no choice
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: yah
    stevenaia Michinaga: there is something call the Pheonix viewer
    Pila Mulligan: it wouldnot insatll :|
    stevenaia Michinaga: I may try it, has a new team from the Emerald team working on it
    Pila Mulligan: ah well, time will tell
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods

    stevenaia Michinaga: nice crowd tonight eos
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes, surprising!
    Pila Mulligan: yes, lively
    Pila Mulligan: and nice topics
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: always amazed what arises here
    stevenaia Michinaga: must be the water
    Eos Amaterasu: yeah, it was really rapid-fire tonight
    Pila Mulligan: the expectations - disppointment equation is a tough lesson -- Eos touched on it in his 'what you need' lyric
    Eos Amaterasu: couldn't keep up with it, plus my chat window was turning black :-)
    Pila Mulligan: optimmism and enthusiasm get such good press and such often worrisome results
    Pila Mulligan: never heard of a chat window fading
    Eos Amaterasu: yeah, it's like which trees get downed by a hurricane:
    Eos Amaterasu: the dead or old ones, or the young ones that are topheavy with green, and not enough trunk
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: initial enthusiasm needs to root
    Eos Amaterasu: but initial enthusiasm finds the light
    Pila Mulligan: as a vehicle for harmony enthusiasm is valuable, but there is also the risk of delusion
    Eos Amaterasu: "The Fool" in the tarot deck
    stevenaia Michinaga: isn't deslusion a person choice
    Eos Amaterasu: Blake's "innocence and experience" speaks to that
    Eos Amaterasu: innocence itself has to be let go
    Eos Amaterasu: otherwise you sink into delusion
    stevenaia Michinaga: delusion is what is left when truth, faith are set aside
    Eos Amaterasu: refusal to see
    Eos Amaterasu: close your eyes
    Pila Mulligan: 'loss of light'
    Eos Amaterasu: freeze frame
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods, a dificult thing to change once it sets in
    stevenaia Michinaga: right.... time stands still
    Eos Amaterasu: so then you need to let go,and the universe will do its thing...pop your bubble
    Eos Amaterasu: one way or another
    Eos Amaterasu: (Blondie?)
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: I guess that's a kind of faith
    Eos Amaterasu: that you can let go of everything, and listen for the response of the universe
    Eos Amaterasu: or that you can play and probe, and watch for the response
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods

    Eos Amaterasu: that "life as a lab" has buddha nature :-)



    Pila Mulligan: well, darkness has begun to arrive earlier these days, so I'll go out for a walk as the dusk dettles here
    Pila Mulligan: settles :) *
    stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy Pila
    Eos Amaterasu: ~~
    stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
    Pila Mulligan: nice to see you all -- bye foronw
    stevenaia Michinaga: I'll be off now, thanks Eos

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