2010.11.06 13:00 - Being: in and out of SL

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Aphrodite Macbain. The comments are by Aphrodite Macbain.


    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Hokon
    Aphrodite Macbain: The discussion will start at 1pm
    Hokon Cazalet: oh ok cool =)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Have you been here before?
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Aphrodite Macbain: Great. So you know you will be recorded and what you say transcribed into a Wiki?
    Hokon Cazalet: yup
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Aphrodite Macbain: great.
    Aphrodite Macbain: where do you live, may I ask?
    Hokon Cazalet: near chicago usa
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm in Vancouver
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hey Frenchie
    Frenchie Riverstone: hi
    Aphrodite Macbain: Have you been here before?
    Frenchie Riverstone: i come here before
    Aphrodite Macbain: So you know what you say will be recorded?
    Frenchie Riverstone: no mic i have
    Frenchie Riverstone: not on my computer
    Aphrodite Macbain: The written chat will be recorded on the web
    Aphrodite Macbain: Is that OK with you?
    Frenchie Riverstone: oh you keep what I type?
    Frenchie Riverstone: yes i know...ok
    Aphrodite Macbain: see the fountain in the centre - it's recording everything that is written
    Aphrodite Macbain: Can you see that it says "recording"?
    Frenchie Riverstone: ok

    Drowning logos

    Hokon Cazalet: our logos returns to the primordial waters
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: our logos Hokon?
    Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Aph, Frenchie, and Hokon
    Frenchie Riverstone: hi
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe, i kinda misused the word; logos - ancient greek for word, speech, message, account,
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes. then absoultely. It all gets swallowed up and put on our chat log!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Be prepared to be quoted!
    Hokon Cazalet: !
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Sometimes we discuss issues around "being", philosophy and the meaning of life. Other times we chit chat about inconsequentials!
    Frenchie Riverstone: i desire to learn english better -to write
    Aphrodite Macbain: This will give you good practice. Good for you Frenchie!
    Frenchie Riverstone: :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: what is your main language?
    Aphrodite Macbain: french?
    Hokon Cazalet: brb need a drink
    Aphrodite Macbain: How are you Bruce? This morning I tried to make a little pond for my puffins and your Blub
    Frenchie Riverstone: yes, except please, we write english ok?
    Aphrodite Macbain: sure
    Aphrodite Macbain: Do you live in France? Quebec?
    Frenchie Riverstone: no
    Frenchie Riverstone: in US
    Aphrodite Macbain: ah!
    Frenchie Riverstone: I like the water here
    Aphrodite Macbain: the pool in the middle?
    Frenchie Riverstone: hear birds
    Frenchie Riverstone: is nice here before we talk
    Frenchie Riverstone: you talk?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Do I speak French? Mais oui!
    Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Lugh - Welcome back.
    Lugh Fehr: heyyz :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Lugh - Lugh was helping me this morning build my pool
    Frenchie Riverstone: :)
    Lugh Fehr: hehehe :D
    Aphrodite Macbain: Still wearing your great outfit I see
    Lugh Fehr: hehehehe :D   yes hehehe
    Hokon Cazalet: back, got more mountian dew =)
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)

    What is Second Life?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Is there any subject anyone would like to discuss in the next little while?
    Lugh Fehr: heh anything hehehee
    Frenchie Riverstone: what is second life?
    Aphrodite Macbain: wow! good question
    Bruce Mowbray: Really like your clothes today, Lugh.
    Lugh Fehr: tnx
    Lugh Fehr: :D
    Frenchie Riverstone: people here from all over world
    Aphrodite Macbain: Do we dresss differently in 2nd life?
    Hokon Cazalet: i do
    Lugh Fehr: than in rl?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes Lugh
    Aphrodite Macbain: Really Hokon?
    Frenchie Riverstone: some femmes are men
    Hokon Cazalet: i dress diff in sl than i do in rl
    Bruce Mowbray: me too!
    Lugh Fehr: heheh unfortunatly i dont have hofes in rl :(
    Aphrodite Macbain: why do you dress differently?
    Aphrodite Macbain wonders what hofes are
    Lugh Fehr: hoofes -the legs of a goat or something
    Bruce Mowbray: hoofs -- or hooves.
    Frenchie Riverstone: i like apparel here
    Lugh Fehr: ohhh yeah -what he said heheh
    Aphrodite Macbain: ohhh thanks Bruce.
    Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    Lugh Fehr: if people dress in RL like they dress in sl the will get stoned by rocks!!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes, it's more than putting on different clothes. Also turning into mythological beasts. I didn't notice you had hooves Lugh
    Lugh Fehr: heheh
    Aphrodite Macbain: I notice Bruce and I wear clothes we would normally wear in RL
    Frenchie Riverstone: why not feet?
    Aphrodite Macbain: why not indeed
    Lugh Fehr: heheh hooves are nice
    Aphrodite Macbain: I have come in my Snoopy costume occasionally
    Lugh Fehr: hehehe
    Frenchie Riverstone: oh costume!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce- are you putting on a hoof?
    Lugh Fehr: . - - - - .
    Lugh Fehr: _ . ' __ ` .
    Lugh Fehr: . - - (#) (##)- - -/#\
    Lugh Fehr: . ' @ /###\
    Lugh Fehr: : , #####
    Lugh Fehr: ` - . .__ . - ' _ . - \###/
    Lugh Fehr: ` ; _ : ` " '
    Lugh Fehr: . ' " " " " " ` .
    Lugh Fehr: / , REGGAE , \
    Lugh Fehr: / / MUSIC \ \
    Lugh Fehr: ` - . _______ . - '
    Lugh Fehr: ___` . | . '___
    Lugh Fehr: (______|______)

    Frenchie Riverstone: i like reggae music
    Frenchie Riverstone: i like to dance
    Aphrodite Macbain: There are probably reggae dance sites in SL
    Lugh Fehr: yeah their are alot of reggae places in sl if you want i give you IM

    A big grey ball appears on Bruce's hand
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh - no, I wondered what was happening to your hand
    Aphrodite Macbain: something oval and beige is floating in front of you
    Lugh Fehr: will we have surgery to make us into mythological creatures in the future?
    Lugh Fehr: hehhehe
    Aphrodite Macbain: mythology and surgery don't seem to go together
    Lugh Fehr: somehow
    Aphrodite Macbain: a donut for a hat Bruce?
    Frenchie Riverstone: frankenstein?
    Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps an apple. I'll call William Tell
    Aphrodite Macbain: Lugh- where did you find your costume?
    Frenchie Riverstone: surgery like frankenstein?
    Lugh Fehr: surgery like tit jobs
    Lugh Fehr: mixed and matched from alot of stuff depends which thing you mean
    Aphrodite Macbain: your headgear, your staff,
    Lugh Fehr: well the hair someone gave it to me. i think i can copy the horns from jewllery set and the neckless from shaman something
    Frenchie Riverstone: ok, was fun, i go now
    Lugh Fehr: bye
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Frenchie!
    Aphrodite Macbain: OK Frenchie. Take care, Come back soon
    Lugh Fehr: hahaha look at his face (points at Bruce)
    Lugh Fehr: i know i'm the noobe but we really need to find somthing to talk about
    Bruce Mowbray: Well, Aph was asking why folks don't wear their RL clothes in SL -- so I thought I'd trying wearing my RL head in SL.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Good grief Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray: Does it work for you?
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe bruce
    Hokon Cazalet: the problem is my rl clothing is boring
    Aphrodite Macbain: how cool (to Bruce)

    Bruce Mowbray: The problem is my RL head is also boring.
    Aphrodite Macbain: maybe if you keep your RL head and change everything else?
    Lugh Fehr: heheh
    Bruce Mowbray: Lugh taught me how to attach an object to my avi -- and I just couldn't wait to try out what he said -- So, blame it on Lugh (I accept no responsibility whatsoever.)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Are you looking for something that keeps you from being bored?
    Lugh Fehr: hehehe
    Lugh Fehr: :(
    Aphrodite Macbain: Do you just say "attach to" then "head"?
    Lugh Fehr: yep
    Aphrodite Macbain: ie click on head or neck when it asks you where you want to attach it to?
    Bruce Mowbray: No -- you find the object in your inventory, then "wear" that object, then move it around until it's where you want it to be (like surrounding my head.)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Right now Bruce's head is in a grey fishbowl
    Lugh Fehr: from inventory "wear" and pick the place
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hokon. How would you like to change your appearance if you could?
    Hokon Cazalet: in rl?
    Hokon Cazalet: dunno how to explain in words
    Aphrodite Macbain: uh oh you're turning in to a tree (to Bruce)
    Aphrodite Macbain: a dancing tree
    Hokon Cazalet: be less fat :

    Lugh Fehr: that's an easy one at least
    Aphrodite Macbain: thank you Bruce! I'll wait till you rezz
    Lugh Fehr: i once met an av from before sl opened to the public i thinck he was 8 years or something
    Aphrodite Macbain: where did you meet this avi?
    Lugh Fehr: at Gaia Rising he was chillin. He lives there, he said

    Changing our avi to become who we truly are

    Aphrodite Macbain: Hokon have you tried changing your avi's body?
    Hokon Cazalet: oh yes i have
    Hokon Cazalet: early on in sl, i spent a month or two altering my shape from its noob state
    Aphrodite Macbain: Did you like what you created?
    Hokon Cazalet: yup =)
    Aphrodite Macbain: excellent! Do you feel like a different person in SL because of your new appearance?
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe yup
    Hokon Cazalet: for me i feel like i uncovered hokon
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Hokon Cazalet: i shaved off the noob bits to uncover the hokon hidden inside
    Aphrodite Macbain: The real you is in SL?
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe, well
    Hokon Cazalet: Hokon was originally created as a sort of projection of my rl essential self
    Aphrodite Macbain: carving down to the real you? or the real hokon?
    Hokon Cazalet: the real hokon
    Hokon Cazalet: and the real hokon is a projection of my essential rl self
    Aphrodite Macbain: Oh OK now I understand.
    Hokon Cazalet: or was, i kinda dropped that project a year ago after it stopped helping me
    Lugh Fehr: heheh coool
    Aphrodite Macbain: Has it allowed you to do things you haven't done before Hokon?
    Aphrodite Macbain wonders whether she's asking too many personal questions of Hokon
    Hokon Cazalet: it inspired me to do things i hadn't done in a long time; basically yes
    Qt Core: Hi all
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe if it goes too far I'll opt out of answering =)
    Hokon Cazalet: so far, i havent given any specifics, so i feel ok
    Aphrodite Macbain: Salve Qt
    Lugh Fehr: heyy
    Bruce Mowbray, while Hokon answers Aph's question, is wondering how to get his SL head substituted for his RL head.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Qt. We were discussing how our ability to change our appearance in SL has affected us
    Bruce Mowbray: Viva Milano!
    Qt Core: :-) Bruce
    Aphrodite Macbain: viva!
    Aphrodite Macbain: Lugh, Hokon- Qt lives in Milan, Italy
    Bruce Mowbray: Just before you arrived, Qt, I was asking how to wear my SL head in RL.
    Hokon Cazalet: cool
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce has turned into an egg-head
    Qt Core: i think that since i got in sl i thought a couple times if other would like what i would wear in rl, never bothered before (i have to like it)
    Bruce Mowbray: Why doesn't anyone appreciate me for my roots!(Bruce has roots extending from his legs and is exploring the notion of being a tree))
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe bruce
    Hokon Cazalet: brb need to tend to an oven
    Aphrodite Macbain: Qt. Have you changed your RL appearance in SL ?

    Qt Core: to be honest i'd like to find a pullover like the one i'm wearing now, the rest of my outfit (shape and glasses apart is much i i look)
    Lugh Fehr: hehee
    Aphrodite Macbain: Now Hokon is doing something to her appearance. An egg head and a square!
    Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Hokon. Thanks for you patience with me today.
    Lugh Fehr: bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: Is Hokon leaving?
    Bruce Mowbray: very nice pull-over, Qt.
    Lugh Fehr: donno i just hear "bye ." I was fiddlin with somthing
    Aphrodite Macbain: You mean you want to match your RL with your SL Qt?
    Bruce Mowbray: She said she was going to the oven.
    Lugh Fehr: syncronize
    Qt Core: almost, people usually do the opposite, i know ;-)
    Lugh Fehr: hehehhe every body is big and shiny in sl heheh

    Aphrodite Macbain: I love the fact that you ar trying to find a sweater in RL to match the one in SL!
    Aphrodite Macbain: do we have more choices in SL?
    Qt Core: and the trek commbadge too ;-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: ??
    Aphrodite Macbain: that's neither Italian or English!
    Qt Core: i have a Trek communicator on my chest
    Lugh Fehr: so isnt that being the av of your av? hehe
    Aphrodite Macbain: what is that?
    Aphrodite Macbain: a computer?
    Qt Core: the radio/cellphone they use in star trek next generation/voyager/ deep space nine
    Bruce Mowbray: Aph is apparently not a Trekkie.
    Aphrodite Macbain: oh. No I'm not, tho I enjoy it when I see it
    Aphrodite Macbain: Beam me up scottie...etc
    Bruce Mowbray: brb. . .
    Aphrodite Macbain: I am in SL much the same in spirit as I am in RL - but my hair isn't red, I'm 20 lbs fatter and I don't have a cowboy hat
    Lugh Fehr: i have claws instead of hooves
    Bruce Mowbray: Lugh's hooves are really cool.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Do you behave differently when you are wearing a costume Lugh?
    Aphrodite Macbain: I notice Bruce often wants to get up and dance
    Lugh Fehr: nahh not really. the other way round. I behave the way i dress
    Aphrodite Macbain: You dress to match your behaviour you mean?
    Lugh Fehr: when im drunk i usally find my av naked in some wierd place in the morrning hehe
    Aphrodite Macbain: Are you back yet Hokon?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Guess not. It is dinner time for her in Chicago
    Bruce Mowbray: Does her avatar also eat?
    Lugh Fehr: what about rl?  Do you behave like you dress or dress like you behave?
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes. I think I do both  - just a little. although my behavior also changes according to the people I'm with and the surroundings for instance I'm different when I'm with my family than with my friends
    Bruce Mowbray: Hokon is still wear her REALLY cool brb hovering text.
    Lugh Fehr: yes i agree very much hehh behavior is a language
    Bruce Mowbray: Everyone is different with their family than with their friends - - I would think.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Some more than others.
    Lugh Fehr: im diff when with my father than with my mother and from friend to friend hehe
    Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm... Tis 5 p.m. in Ohio -- Must be off to RL duties. . . THANKS Aph, Qt, Lugh, and Hokon (when she gets back).
    Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....
    Qt Core: Bye Bruce
    Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....
    Lugh Fehr: bye bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: hopes Bruce gets better soon
    Lugh Fehr: even the way you think changes when in diff places
    Lugh Fehr: so which one is the real you?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Indeed! That's what were often trying to figure out here in Play as Being
    Lugh Fehr: hehehe

    Essential selves, essential beings

    Aphrodite Macbain: do we even have one essential being?
    Hokon Cazalet: back
    Hokon Cazalet: i think so
    Aphrodite Macbain: or are we a matrix?
    Hokon Cazalet: i think we are both
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes?
    Hokon Cazalet likes Heraclitus
    Aphrodite Macbain wonders why
    Hokon Cazalet: i think i have an essential self, but am always changing
    Lugh Fehr: well i think we are none
    Hokon Cazalet: well, my properties come and go, but a process, a way of being, endures
    Aphrodite Macbain: Does the essential self stay the same? When is it formed?
    Hokon Cazalet: i'd say its being formed all the time
    Lugh Fehr: well i think we got three essential selves
    Aphrodite Macbain: three?
    Lugh Fehr: yep
    Hokon Cazalet: who are the three?
    Lugh Fehr: the body and the surroundings, consciousness, and the state of being
    Qt Core: are we like the dance balls in discos, with so many sides that answers/reflect in different ways depending on what hit them ?
    Aphrodite Macbain smiles at Qt
    Aphrodite Macbain: hmm interesting
    Aphrodite Macbain: all entwined?
    Lugh Fehr: hehhe
    Lugh Fehr: i suck at spelling
    Hokon Cazalet: =) i make so many typos, im good at knowing what a typo means =P
    Lugh Fehr: donno why
    Lugh Fehr: hehhe
    Aphrodite Macbain: Someone said that when Prozac was invented, those taking it felt they had finally become "themselves."
    Lugh Fehr: the consciousness,  light (body and surroundings) are separate and can only be intertwined by the state of being
    Aphrodite Macbain: I am not clear what you mean by the state of being
    Lugh Fehr: well you and me are differente states of being
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi folks :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Eliza!
    Hokon Cazalet: hellos =)
    Qt Core: Hi Eliza
    Lugh Fehr: a tree and a dog are diff
    Aphrodite Macbain: we are different consciousnesses too
    Aphrodite Macbain: and genetic makeup

    Lugh Fehr: no i think we're not
    Aphrodite Macbain: ?
    Eliza Madrigal: thought I'd take a chance to see if anyone was here still, nice to see you all
    Hokon Cazalet likes her blue genes
    Lugh Fehr: heyyz
    Eliza Madrigal: listens to both Qt and Hokon
    Aphrodite Macbain: Glad you came Eliza. We are disentangling who we are
    Eliza Madrigal: interesting... I'll watch closely :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Aphrodite Macbain: what we are made up of. Lugh thinks we are divided into three states
    Hokon Cazalet: or three selves
    Lugh Fehr: yes they are different.  Yet a 4th state makes them all the same
    Lugh Fehr: heheh
    Eliza Madrigal: 4th state like 0 time?
    Lugh Fehr: as i see it any way
    Lugh Fehr: yes 0 - complete emptyness. No law to neither create nor to hold creation. So we are and we are not
    Aphrodite Macbain: Now I must go everyone. Been good talking with you all!
    Eliza Madrigal: like your hat Aphrodite :)
    Hokon Cazalet: awwww byebyes
    Lugh Fehr: byebye
    Eliza Madrigal: the 4th state idea is interesting because sometimes when people consider contemplation they think it sounds like going backwards or escaping or regressing in some way..
    Eliza Madrigal: to go beyond 'thinking'
    Eliza Madrigal: or something like that
    Eliza Madrigal: not sure if it is what you mean of course
    Lugh Fehr: yes exactly

    Eliza Madrigal: and also perhaps that it disappreciates all the thinking
    Lugh Fehr: but that's still not zero
    Lugh Fehr: because they're still in the realm of the creation. hehhe
    Hokon Cazalet: brb my pizza is done
    Qt Core: Enjoy it
    Lugh Fehr: the side of non creation. well its not created. it cant be
    Lugh Fehr: bon appetit
    Qt Core: Hi Zon
    Eliza Madrigal: (hi Zon)
    Lugh Fehr: bbye
    Zon Kwan: hi there all
    Lugh Fehr: upps hey
    Eliza Madrigal: oops... text from my daughter, seems I've forgotten to pick her up
    Eliza Madrigal: haha, sorry, bye everyone :)
    Qt Core: really oops ;-)!!
    Qt Core: Bye eliza
    Lugh Fehr: hehehehe byebye
    Hokon Cazalet: back, pizza is a bit burnt, but its ok =)
    Lugh Fehr: hehehhe
    Lugh Fehr: :)
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Lugh Fehr: so what ideas you have about who we are?
    Hokon Cazalet: at me or Qt?
    Lugh Fehr: heheh donno anyone that feels like answering
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Qt Core: when I think about that I start going up and down meta levels
    Hokon Cazalet: i just have a general sense on who we are, but nothing formalized; i know personally who i am, but sadly i cant express it in words (yet)
    Qt Core: i am what i am, what i think i am what others think i am, what i think others think i am, and then what i think i should be...
    Hokon Cazalet: hehe
    Lugh Fehr: heheheh coool hehe
    Qt Core: and in the end you even discover that you can be without knowing how to ;-)
    Hokon Cazalet: yup

    Thingness; Being used and ready-to-hand or I'd rather be a hammer than a nail
    Lugh Fehr: so do you think there is some fundamental separation of any kind -between things and people?
    Hokon Cazalet: i think so, but there's also an inter-connection between them
    Qt Core: yes, to Lugh
    Hokon Cazalet: i guess, the kind of Being a person has, I'd say is different from the kind of Being a 'thing' has
    Lugh Fehr: in what way?
    Hokon Cazalet: is that to both of us?
    Lugh Fehr: actually more to you Hokon hehhe but still to anyone who feel to answer hehe
    Hokon Cazalet: well, the kind of Being a 'thing' has, i would say, primordially, is being-ready-to-hand by us as equipment
    Hokon Cazalet: whereas a person's kind of Being, is constituting a world and context (I'm not so sure about the type of Being a person has tbh, but its not ready-to-hand)
    Lugh Fehr: what's tbh?
    Hokon Cazalet: to be honest
    Hokon Cazalet: i guess, with the Being of a person, all i know is, its not merely being ready-to-hand
    Lugh Fehr: what exectly do you mean by ready to hand
    Lugh Fehr: ?
    Hokon Cazalet: something that is grasped, used, taken up to perform a task
    Hokon Cazalet: the mindset of taking something ready-to-hand, a hammer is a good example: as I hammer down a nail, i am unconcerned with the geometric, or scientific properties of the hammer, but i simply use it and move
    Lugh Fehr: is our body part of the things? as in all matter?
    Hokon Cazalet: i would say with our body (that's a good question), it is and isnt: our bodies have an extra feature that we directly live-in, or "dwell" in our body
    Qt Core: it may (or should) be, but we are so interconnected to it that it has really an in-between statusb

    Hokon Cazalet: i would say the body is somewhat ready-to-hand, but has another feature added, we live-in our body, always
    Lugh Fehr: so hokon you are saying that there are two: those that  are using and those that are used and you happen to be that which is using ? heheh
    Hokon Cazalet: yes the person "uses" the hammer, but the relationship is not one of taking a hammer merely in its bare presence and thinking "i am hammering this nail down", but of total absorbtion into the activity
    Hokon Cazalet: so my existence and that of the hammer, and that of the activity, now are interwined
    Hokon Cazalet: my consciousness has leaped outside of itself
    Lugh Fehr: cool- interesting way to put it
    Hokon Cazalet: =)
    Hokon Cazalet: Heidegger is a cool philosopher =)
    Lugh Fehr: and which part of you exactly is the mind, for example?
    Qt Core: time to go, bye all
    Hokon Cazalet: bye Qt
    Lugh Fehr: byebye
    Hokon Cazalet: can you rephrase that lugh?

    End of recording

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