2011.01.01 01:00 - The Nine Seconds

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

    Pema Pera: hi Korel!
    Pema Pera: (Korel seems to be afk)
    Korel Laloix: heya.
    Pema Pera: Hi Korel, welcome back :)
    Korel Laloix: Sorry.... taking some more drugs.... nasty cold I hame.
    Pema Pera: Have you been here before?
    Pema Pera: sorry to hear that!
    Korel Laloix: Hyquil is wonderful stuff.
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Korel Laloix: Nyquil even.
    Korel Laloix: Was not a festive New Year for me.
    Korel Laloix: How about you?
    Pema Pera: oh, I had a rather quiet time, here in Kyoto, Japan
    Korel Laloix: Oh ... so that was a while ago then?
    Korel Laloix: I am crap at timezones.
    Pema Pera: yes indeed, it's evening here now, 6 pm, on 1/1
    Korel Laloix: Oh OK.
    Pema Pera: we're 17 hours ahead of SLT
    Korel Laloix: 3 am here in Oklahoma.
    Pema Pera: speaking about SL, have you visited us here before, at this pavilion?
    Korel Laloix: Oh yes.... just a new AV.
    Pema Pera: ah, okay :-)
    Pema Pera: hard to keep track of who is who here
    Korel Laloix: Freud Jungsten is my proper AV name.

    Ah yes, while I had not yet met her new avatar, I was familiar with Freud as a relatively frequent visitor.

    Pema Pera: or even whose avatar is whose avatar :-)
    Korel Laloix: Freud is starting to act funny sorta like before I lost my previous two AVs... so juststartig agin.
    Pema Pera: eternal rejuvination . . . .
    Korel Laloix: Trying to keep realy smal this time to help with my Lag.
    Korel Laloix: Sort of..
    Korel Laloix: Ijoined SL back in 05 to do a paper on cybersex.... lol
    Korel Laloix: So was realy not into it.
    Korel Laloix: But later I made an AV I put some effort into.
    Pema Pera: wow, that's a long time ago!
    Pema Pera: how do you view the changes of SL over time?
    Korel Laloix: Was not my idea. One of the gradstudents suggested it as an idea.
    Korel Laloix: Very very different.
    Korel Laloix: Different people.
    Korel Laloix: A lot more diversity.
    Pema Pera: in what way?
    Pema Pera: ah!
    Korel Laloix: And it whole system is much more poweful and stable....
    Pema Pera: yes
    Korel Laloix: So the creativity is realy showing now vs back then.
    Korel Laloix: Sl has been great for me.... leaned a lot.
    Korel Laloix: learned
    Korel Laloix: Met some great people in RL as well.
    Korel Laloix: Really had the oportuity to work on my English as well.
    Pema Pera: what was most unexpected, of all the things you learned?
    Korel Laloix: THinking.
    Korel Laloix: I guess maybe self exploration.

    A testimony to the richness and potential of Second Life!

    Korel Laloix: Let me figure how to explain that.
    Korel Laloix: Well... since comming on SL I have figured out I am a lesbian and I have become a Christian.......
    Korel Laloix: And SL has introduced me to people that sorta helped me along with both those life paths.
    Korel Laloix: Does that make sense?
    Pema Pera: that sounds like two big changes!
    Korel Laloix: Complicated for sure.... smiles
    Pema Pera: and yes, communication in SL naturally can lead to self exploration
    Pema Pera: because it is so vivid and much more direct than, say, email, or telephone, or facebook
    Korel Laloix: I was on ADHD drugs for a long time and when I came off..... things started changing for sure..... lol
    Pema Pera: that must have been hard . . .
    Korel Laloix: I have met quite a few people RL from SL as well... mostly for good... some for disasters though....
    Korel Laloix: It was... on them from about 11 to 19.. . and went of without a gradual decrease.... so was doubly bad.
    Pema Pera: wow . . .
    Korel Laloix: HIstory. I survived.
    Korel Laloix: Just now not a fan of chemical parenting.
    Korel Laloix: But... they do have their legitimate medical uses...
    Korel Laloix: Astrophysics?
    oO0Oo Resident: hello everyone
    Korel Laloix: Physics was a course the my brain hit the delete button on the second I got my grades.... sorry.
    Korel Laloix: bozho
    Pema Pera: Hi O
    Pema Pera: and hi Kit!
    Kit Ciaco: Hey!
    oO0Oo Resident: this is a friend Kit
    Pema Pera: and yes, I'm an astrophysicist
    oO0Oo Resident: 1st time here
    Pema Pera: welcome, Kit!
    Pema Pera: we get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://wiki.playasbeing.org/ -- We record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
    Kit Ciaco: Thanks!
    oO0Oo Resident: kit may wish to be off the record, I'm not sure
    Kit Ciaco: Oh, heck, I don't mind!
    Kit Ciaco: If I'm embarrassed for what I say to be recorded I don't need to be saying it at all!!

    I liked Kit already, just from that remark :-)

    Pema Pera: thank you -- it sure makes life easier for us, not to have to delete text from the records :)
    Pema Pera: Korel, during your previous visits, has there been any discussion about the 9-second breaks, by any chance?
    Korel Laloix: Yes.
    Korel Laloix: I am just lagged so my comment took a while to show up.
    Pema Pera: When we started, almost three years ago, we talked about that a lot, but less so these days -- since many people are familiar with it now
    Korel Laloix: BUt I did wait for my follow up.
    Kit Ciaco: Ummm - what is a 9 second break?
    Korel Laloix: 90 second
    Kit Ciaco: 90
    Kit Ciaco: ok
    Pema Pera: ah, two diferent things :-)
    Korel Laloix: Every 15 mins.. just to give folks a break.
    Korel Laloix: OH.
    Korel Laloix: Not heard this one yet then.
    Pema Pera: during our sessions here, we like to stay silent for 90 seconds, indeed every 15 minutes
    Pema Pera: just to give everyone a chance to reflect
    Pema Pera: and take some deep breaths and look around
    Pema Pera: to avoid getting into just one ongoing line of argument
    Pema Pera: during those 90 seconds the pond grows misty, there are bells before and after, and also green text showing up in the local chat log
    Pema Pera: (even so, many people manage to ignore all of those signs, hahah)
    Pema Pera: anyway
    Pema Pera: the 9 sec breaks are different
    Korel Laloix: Not heard of this yet.

    I realized that even frequent visitors to Play as Being may have never heard about our nine-second experiments, so I gave a short introduction, and also made it the title of this session's log.

    Pema Pera: the basic idea that we started with, three years ago, was to spend a few hours or more every day in RL taking short breaks, also every 15 minutes, but only 9 seconds
    Pema Pera: like mini-meditations
    Pema Pera: the idea being that many people think they don't have time to meditate
    Pema Pera: but if you take, say, 12 little breaks during three hours every day, it only takes you 12*9 seconds, about two minutes
    Pema Pera: about the time it takes to brush your teeth
    Pema Pera: so nobody can claim that they don't have the time to do so
    Pema Pera: remarkably, most people report that already during the first few days taking such breaks changes their life
    Pema Pera: it would be fun if you were to try that, just for two or three days, to see what happens
    Pema Pera: (the 90 second breaks are like an extension of that, for here in SL)
    Pema Pera: does that make sense, as a summary?
    Korel Laloix: It does.
    Korel Laloix: wado
    oO0Oo Resident: coming to PAB, without even this knowledge has been tremendously meaningful for me, and I am very glad to know more of the background
    Kit Ciaco: I'd say yes, but I'm waiting for 90 secs to pass....
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: actually, the "9 seconds" is like a pun: 15 minutes is 900 seconds, so waiting 9 seconds is like paying a 1% time tax . . . .
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!
    Pema Pera: and here in SL we are silent 10% of the time
    Kit Ciaco: well done!
    Pema Pera: thanks!
    Kit Ciaco: too much talk clouds the mind and the air
    Pema Pera: see also http://wiki.playasbeing.org/About_PlayAsBeing/Basic_Ideas
    Pema Pera: yes, and just shooting some tiny holes in the dome can clear the air :-)
    Pema Pera: (in the dome of our pent-up thinking)
    Korel Laloix: Thank you for explaining that.
    oO0Oo Resident winks at Kit (shooting)
    Korel Laloix: So many idiums in English I don't get.
    Pema Pera: such as?
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!
    Kit Ciaco: at Sam, I mean, not Korel
    Korel Laloix: Shoot holes in the dome.. smiles
    Pema Pera: oh, that's not an idiom -- I made that up :-)

    But I was happy to see my expression elevated to the status of idiom. (^_^)

    Korel Laloix: Oh.... lol... sorry.
    Pema Pera: and I'm not even native -- I was born in Holland, speaking Dutch :-)
    Korel Laloix: Metaphore then?
    Pema Pera: I like to shoot holes in languages too, I guess :-)
    Pema Pera: yes, metaphors
    Pema Pera: hi Yaku!
    Korel Laloix: English is not my first language either.. but I think I am very good at it.
    Kit Ciaco: hey, Yaku!
    oO0Oo Resident: hey yaku!
    Korel Laloix: Getting better though.
    Pema Pera: what is your first language, Korel?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning
    Korel Laloix: bozho Yaku
    oO0Oo Resident: happy new year (if it is in your ken)
    Korel Laloix: Tsalagi
    Pema Pera: is that a Native American language?
    Korel Laloix: Cherokee essentially.
    Kit Ciaco: what does it mean?
    Korel Laloix: Was my house lanaguage growning up.
    Korel Laloix: English at school.
    Pema Pera: nice to grow up bilingual!
    Korel Laloix: I guess.... grew up with some Potawatomi as well.
    Pema Pera: ah, trilingual, even better :)
    Pema Pera: I learned my first few foreign languages starting at 12
    Korel Laloix: I am not sure speaking three languages badly can earn you the title trilingual...
    Pema Pera: I doubt that you spoke all of them badly!

    O then brought up a point that we would stay with for a while.

    oO0Oo Resident: communication is largely outside the realm of speaking anyway
    Kit Ciaco: true!
    Korel Laloix: You should have seen my trhing to pass freshman English.. at a comunity college.... grins... painful.
    oO0Oo Resident: IMHO
    Pema Pera: that's a very interesting point, O
    Pema Pera: I think so too, and yet there is a lot of interplay
    Pema Pera: like musicians playing freely in a jam session, but often after having learned to play through using notes on paper
    Pema Pera: hi Calvino
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Cal
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey cal
    Korel Laloix: bozho
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello 0, everyone, happy new year
    Kit Ciaco: Hey, Calvino!
    Pema Pera: happy new year to you too, Cal, an hour or so ago!
    oO0Oo Resident: nice flutes in the fountain
    Korel Laloix: Champagne is one drink that I just don't get.
    oO0Oo Resident: interplay Pema
    Pema Pera: Calvino, we just started talking about communication with and without language
    Kit Ciaco: I think I communicate best with my music
    Calvino Rabeni: That's a great topic
    Korel Laloix: And then there was silence... smiles
    Pema Pera: what do you play, Kit?
    Kit Ciaco: well, lots of things - badly - but mostly the Native American style flute
    Calvino Rabeni: The idea of language has been stretched pretty far hasn't it
    Korel Laloix: lol. badly maybe a trend today.
    Kit Ciaco: heck, it's my mantra - "badly"
    Pema Pera: :-)
    oO0Oo Resident: lol Korel
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Anything worth doing is worth doing badly!

    That also could have been a good title for this session :-)

    oO0Oo Resident: lolo
    Kit Ciaco: exacto!
    Korel Laloix: I think the idea of language is much broader than we think sometimes.
    Kit Ciaco: I love the notion of deliberate imperfection
    Korel Laloix: Becuase in most of the worlds languages, there is a culture stuck to it.
    oO0Oo Resident: problem is, you do it badly long enough, it ghas nowhere to go but... good
    Korel Laloix: English may not be that way.
    Kit Ciaco: I don't know, Korel
    oO0Oo Resident listens to Korel
    Kit Ciaco: Southernese has alot of culture attached to it
    Korel Laloix: They take up a special offereing at church to keep me out of the choir.... so lets just say music is not my strong suit.... grins
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!!!!!!
    Calvino Rabeni: hehe
    oO0Oo Resident: lol
    Korel Laloix: And maybe Redneckese as well
    Kit Ciaco: same thing
    Korel Laloix: I know some folks that would so hate on you for saying that...
    oO0Oo Resident: can humour be musical
    Calvino Rabeni: That has a lot of local dialects too
    Kit Ciaco: You understand, I'm speaking as a Southern redneck, of course
    Calvino Rabeni: (redneckese)
    oO0Oo Resident: yup
    Korel Laloix: lol
    Calvino Rabeni: Not just anywhere in the South, I wager
    Kit Ciaco: hehehehe
    Korel Laloix: And I am somewhere bettern rednceck and reservation trash.
    Korel Laloix: So dialects of English have an attached culture?
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm partial to East Texas for its sound quality

    Alas, we were now approaching the limits of text-based chat; perhaps something for Yaku's Friday afternoon voice sessions?

    Korel Laloix: Is that the idea?
    oO0Oo Resident: it's always the inbetween places and people who are the most interesting
    Kit Ciaco: Well, I am purebred redneck, I'm afraid....
    Korel Laloix: Me being the exception.
    Kit Ciaco: Yes, Sam, I agree!
    Calvino Rabeni: And I've heard a lot of choice phrases
    Pema Pera: yes, and in-between often looks like "fringe" from within a particular area
    oO0Oo Resident: mmm
    Pema Pera: but the fringes are where areas touch
    Pema Pera: and so they play a bridging role
    oO0Oo Resident: tendril
    Kit Ciaco: The fringes are the straps that connect!
    Pema Pera: much of popular music has its roots in one fringe or another
    Korel Laloix: Great.... I am a translator betten different clans of trailor trash.. I knew I had a place in life.. smiles
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!!!!
    oO0Oo Resident: we should start a fringe choir
    Calvino Rabeni: Most of the great idioms come from the South
    Pema Pera: hi Qt!
    Kit Ciaco: Yes, we are quite colorful, that's for sure
    Qt Core: Hi all!
    oO0Oo Resident: hi Qt
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm all over that like ugly on an Ape
    Kit Ciaco: hey, QT
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning qt
    Kit Ciaco: I'm fine as frog's hair!
    Korel Laloix: Not heard the frog hair one.. what does that mean?
    Kit Ciaco: I have no idea
    Calvino Rabeni: Hmm, this might need redaction in the log ... I'm so hungry I could eat the butt out of a skunk!

    This editor saw no reason for censorship here :-)

    Kit Ciaco: except that frogs really do have a thin little set of follicles
    Calvino Rabeni: I THINK that's self-evident
    Kit Ciaco: sorry
    Kit Ciaco: I hate saying self evident things.....
    oO0Oo Resident: frog's hair. That's scarce as chickens teeth and rocking horse manure
    Qt Core: and flying pig
    Kit Ciaco: Oh, I loe the flying pig!
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: I meant the meaning of the skunk metaphor, not what you said about follicles
    Kit Ciaco: heheheheh
    Calvino Rabeni: that was nicely puzzling
    Kit Ciaco: II realized that seconds later.....
    oO0Oo Resident: the flying pig is well on its way to concreteness
    Kit Ciaco: blushing.....
    Kit Ciaco: so is the fuzzy frog
    Calvino Rabeni: That's just jim-dandy
    Kit Ciaco: concreteness, I mean - not blushing
    Korel Laloix: We had a skunk in the yard the other day.. pretty animals really.
    oO0Oo Resident: ayup
    Korel Laloix: THey don't look freindly though.
    Kit Ciaco: And very sweet when they're domesticated!
    Calvino Rabeni: but sometimes I'm just dumb as a bucket of rocks
    oO0Oo Resident: lol
    Korel Laloix: THey say box of rocks here.
    Kit Ciaco: Well, I'm so homely my parents beat me with an ugly stick
    Calvino Rabeni: heheh
    Pema Pera: :-)
    oO0Oo Resident: your all in the choir, automatic
    Kit Ciaco: LOL!!!!!!
    Korel Laloix: wow... they Nyquil just hit.
    Calvino Rabeni: yep, I fell out of the ugly tree and hit all the branches on the way down
    Kit Ciaco: But the language thing - our words really do tell alot about who we are
    Korel Laloix: I am off before I fall asleep on the key board.
    Kit Ciaco: the words we select, the way we use them
    Korel Laloix: Good night al.. have a great new year.
    Qt Core: bye O, sleep well then
    Korel Laloix: do na da go hv i
    Kit Ciaco: g'night!
    Pema Pera: night, Korel!
    Calvino Rabeni: Dream mighty
    oO0Oo Resident: bye Korel ty
    Qt Core: ops, JKorel, not O

    Kit and O were on a roll:

    oO0Oo Resident: yes Kit the words we select
    Kit Ciaco: exactly
    Kit Ciaco: And them's that we do NOT select tell alot about us as well
    Pema Pera: :)
    oO0Oo Resident notes group selecting not to select
    Kit Ciaco: LOLLLLLL
    Kit Ciaco: What is it that is most important for us to communicate?
    Calvino Rabeni: Reading a magazine today ... a cartoon shows Little Socrates at the table with his parents ... sulking... his father is admonishing him -
    Calvino Rabeni: Say something profound or don't say anything at all
    Calvino Rabeni: One issue with communication is that it tends to be about things that are broken
    Kit Ciaco: hmmmmmmmm
    Qt Core: that's prove you need god parenting for greatness :-)
    oO0Oo Resident: that's profound
    Qt Core: good
    Pema Pera: so language is corrective, you think, Calvino?
    Kit Ciaco: you mean good parenting or god parenting?
    Qt Core: the 2nd
    Calvino Rabeni: I think the higher mental functions are essentially corrective
    Calvino Rabeni: and suppressive
    Kit Ciaco: you mean, like ego and super ego?
    Kit Ciaco: but not so much id??
    oO0Oo Resident: agree good parenting very imporatant, but maybe not totally determinate
    Kit Ciaco: I agree, Sam
    Kit Ciaco: good parenting gives us a leg up but it is not necessary
    Calvino Rabeni: Well we have a layered architecture, the higher layers having evolved later to control, refine, and repurpose the lower
    Qt Core: (it was mostly a joke about young socrates strip
    Qt Core: )
    oO0Oo Resident: get it now Qt
    Kit Ciaco: I agree - parenting, whether by adults when we're kids, or by ourselves as older people, is corrective and somewhat restrictive in nature
    Kit Ciaco: not bad in and of itself, but can be dangerous when not balanced
    Qt Core: i find that my way of communication is mostly suppressive, i feel i block most of what i think to say... that i see especially about humor
    Kit Ciaco: what do you mean, Qt?
    Qt Core: that 90% of the jokes i think aren't good or appropriate
    Calvino Rabeni: I heard one recently
    Calvino Rabeni: darn, it's not appropriate
    Calvino Rabeni: you're right Qt

    Time for me to say goodbye, after the first hour of this session; again the session would continue for well more than another hour!

    Pema Pera: time for dinner here, good seeing you all, and till next time!
    Kit Ciaco: Humor is one of the most finely tuned human functions
    Kit Ciaco: rather complex
    Pema Pera: bfn
    Calvino Rabeni: TC Pema
    Qt Core: bye Pema
    oO0Oo Resident: ty Pema
    Kit Ciaco: bye
    Qt Core: brb
    Calvino Rabeni: What seems peculiar to me .. is that for a lot of the very basic human functions there's no well-accepted explanation
    Calvino Rabeni: like yawning
    Calvino Rabeni: or crying
    Calvino Rabeni: or blushing
    Kit Ciaco: I wonder - is explanation essential?
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, we live without it pretty well
    Kit Ciaco: That's what makes humor so basic
    Kit Ciaco: like laughter
    Kit Ciaco: if we analyzed it it wouldn't be funny at all
    Kit Ciaco: I'm speaking as an analyst, understand
    Calvino Rabeni: with no definition of humor, it's hard to decide if any animals have it or do things like laugh
    Kit Ciaco: Oh, I think many animals have a sense of humor
    Kit Ciaco: either that or I'm a very bad influence on mine!
    Kit Ciaco: which is a possibility
    Calvino Rabeni: but analysis is not for the purposes of appreciating the humor
    Calvino Rabeni: things don't work when taken apart
    Kit Ciaco: Analysis may be over-rated
    Kit Ciaco: I know, I speak as a heathen to the intellect....
    Calvino Rabeni: well, analysis is great when coupled with synthesis, then you get a nice reciprocating engine out of it
    Kit Ciaco: yes.... I used to live by that code
    Calvino Rabeni: values change over time
    Kit Ciaco: As I've become older I've made peace with my vast array of ignorance
    Kit Ciaco: exactly, Calvin!
    Calvino Rabeni: but it's dicey to talk about that
    Kit Ciaco: Agreed - some of the most important things to discuss are dicey
    Kit Ciaco: Some of the most important things to discuss should never be discussed....
    Calvino Rabeni: communicated but not discussed
    Kit Ciaco: perhaps
    Calvino Rabeni: Stereotypes are crucial but unpopular
    Calvino Rabeni: which seems interesting
    Kit Ciaco: ?
    Calvino Rabeni: because its the opposite of logic
    Calvino Rabeni: which is popular but fairly useless
    Kit Ciaco: I don't think stereotypes are crucial....
    Calvino Rabeni: Stereotypes like, common patterns or archetypes that look at a general trend
    Kit Ciaco: Nor logic entirely useless, though I don't use it much personally
    Calvino Rabeni: I mean generalities about people as types
    Qt Core: they are a way to think less as in din't have to redo long analysis
    Kit Ciaco: still - I do like archetypal thinking, but I've never seen it as stereotyping - I must htink on this some more
    Calvino Rabeni: But basically any concept is either a stereotype or so specifically focused as to be brittle or inapplicable to much
    Kit Ciaco: If we pigeonhole another based, even on archetypes, we miss alot of the stuff of the individual, though
    Calvino Rabeni: For example ... the idea that values shift over the lifetime of an individual, or that older people have different values than younger ...
    Calvino Rabeni: may be broadly true
    Qt Core: it's a statistical thing, you miss a wonderful 1% but you are ok 99% of the times
    Calvino Rabeni: Yeah
    Kit Ciaco: Yes, but that 1 percent may be just the one percent I most need!
    Calvino Rabeni: You can't go around always alert for the 1% exceptions
    Kit Ciaco: Well, I am probably out of my league
    Qt Core: so instead of spending say 10 thinking power units we use a preconceived idea and spend say 2 but we must spend another 2 to verify that it is really so, still saving 6 units!
    Qt Core: greating seat choice, O
    Kit Ciaco: LOL! Yes. I am definitely out of my leage.
    Kit Ciaco: no good at math
    Qt Core: ;)
    oO0Oo Resident: sorry I crashed
    Yakuzza Lethecus: wb
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think it´s only important to stay thinking about the own perceptions and what we are screening out of our perceptional range
    Kit Ciaco: I have no idea what that means
    Qt Core: why that remind me about the 9 sec, Yaku ?
    Calvino Rabeni: I think he means notice more than what we're focused on
    Calvino Rabeni: that is sort of gestalt sounding
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, but also what we leave out
    Yakuzza Lethecus: like going to sl, i try to stay around places with more propability for a focused discussion
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t go to party places even tho of course there is a likelyhood to learn something from partyppl too
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i sacrefice that for me considerered less propable moment of staying connected to a good debate on a party
    oO0Oo Resident: in a way, it sounds like you are saying, it is worthwhile to be aware of our preferences, or aversions, and leave room, knowing we are almost always ignoring or oblivious of some things
    Calvino Rabeni: I's like to say, focus is not the same as scope, if you know what I mean
    Calvino Rabeni: But O's point is important
    oO0Oo Resident: if not clearly put
    Calvino Rabeni: It's clearly put from my point of view
    Qt Core: after all, being mortal beings we mist choose what to focus on, we don't have so much time ;-)
    Qt Core: must
    oO0Oo Resident: agreed
    Qt Core: (what do you feel when you realize you will never be able to read all the wikipedia pages ?)
    Kit Ciaco: relieved!
    Qt Core: or listen to all the music ever composed
    Kit Ciaco: same
    oO0Oo Resident: have felt that sort of thing in my life
    Calvino Rabeni: I feel jubilant, QT
    oO0Oo Resident: there is a surrender quality for me
    Qt Core: ok, so i'm the weird one ;-)
    Kit Ciaco: When I was young I wanted to know EVERYTHING!
    Kit Ciaco: I was relieved to discover today's knowledge is sufficient unto itself
    Kit Ciaco: no, not wierd at all!!!
    Calvino Rabeni: That's the value change trajectory I was stereotyping earlier
    Kit Ciaco: I think our values do shift as we get older!
    oO0Oo Resident: people have different capacities for things and ambitions, the texture chajnges with age
    Qt Core: i have mixed feeling, sometimes i'm happy to be able to know everything (i can read whichever wikipedia page i want) sometime else i'm sad as i can't read them all
    Calvino Rabeni: Well there's also the cost of lost opportunity
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for me problems often appear when i have a thought and don´t feel able to communicate a thought into text and find an answer for this kind of issue online or in books
    Kit Ciaco: I spent years trying to record in some fashion or another my thoughts
    Calvino Rabeni: In fact, over time I found the answers getting less important and the questions more important
    Qt Core: yes, having limited time there is the choice problem, which page to read... and then committing it to memory or not ?
    Kit Ciaco: which is why I mostly write only instrumental music now
    Qt Core: it's better to know the elemet table or all the pokemon names ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: like one of the very childish questiions of mine is still the aspect that i can´t bring in check that i am against any form of communism in the past but i would like to see a kind of ressource egalitarianism
    Kit Ciaco: I vote Pokemon
    Kit Ciaco: It's more relevant to the masses
    Yakuzza Lethecus: whom i vote for pikachu!
    Qt Core: but there are masses in the element table ;-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: pika pi
    Kit Ciaco: LOL, Qt!!!!!
    Kit Ciaco: true!
    Calvino Rabeni: An interesting question is - What's the mode of this conversation?
    Calvino Rabeni: And another is - to what degree do we think about it
    Calvino Rabeni: and / or have an intention to shift it
    Kit Ciaco: Wonderful discussion and company
    Qt Core: and /or try to demonstrate how cool/knowledgable we are ?
    Kit Ciaco: thanks for having me here!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care kit
    Calvino Rabeni: See you again Kit, I hope
    Kit Ciaco: I must go check on my horse and then off to bed in a bit
    Kit Ciaco: Thanks, guys!
    Calvino Rabeni: Sunday 7pm is a good time
    Qt Core: np Kit, it was nice to talk to you
    oO0Oo Resident: happy new year kit
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so what was ur exact mode of the conversation before cal ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and in which way did you see it shifting ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and to what extend are conversations are allowed and supposed to shift in order to stay healty and dynamic
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, discussions have two common modes around here, speculative abstractions and concrete / impressionistic
    Calvino Rabeni: which are both a little different than what you may be seeking
    Qt Core: they should shift when (almost) everyone agree on one topic before they become boring
    Calvino Rabeni: if you want to have a topical discussion, e.g. of resource egalitarianism
    Calvino Rabeni: Or something that's grounded in a specific time / place / community
    Yakuzza Lethecus: what are you talking about, what was an example of an issue that appeared in my mind but isn´t solvable
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it was not about that subject it was about appearance of thought
    Calvino Rabeni: what's the nature of the issue?
    Qt Core: wow, just 4 lines and i lost you :-) but i was distracted by impeeding cooking, have to go
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye qt
    oO0Oo Resident: bye qt
    Qt Core: bye all!
    Calvino Rabeni: Bon Apetit Qt
    Calvino Rabeni: Suppose the mode is that the conversation isn't very grounded in time / place / social context
    Calvino Rabeni: its a logic of generalities
    Calvino Rabeni: that's ok, but it's impressionistic, even if it sounds logical
    Calvino Rabeni: On the other hand, the mode could be quite grounded
    Yakuzza Lethecus: For me i feel discomfort when i have the feeling that i can´t communicate thoughts that appear that is one trigger for being in a state of arousal.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Pab is for me about appearances, awareness and mediation
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so appearance of ,,any real thought" can´t be wrongly placed because that is what brings me out of a mediative, aware state
    Yakuzza Lethecus: even into confusion if i elaborate on subjects for a while without any ability of solving
    Calvino Rabeni: Are you defining confusion as "the state of subjects that are not solved"?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: unsolvable not unsolved
    Yakuzza Lethecus: without any possible clear feeling that it would be solvable, if they are just unsolved then it´s never confusing then it´s just the next step to go
    Calvino Rabeni: hmmm
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey mick
    Yakuzza Lethecus: happy new year
    Mickorod Renard: hiyaaa,,happy new year
    Calvino Rabeni: having a "clear feeling" seems important
    oO0Oo Resident: Hi Mick, Thor
    Calvino Rabeni: Good evening
    Calvino Rabeni: So can you particularize this, Yaku?
    Thor Lumet: _/!\_ Namaste
    Mickorod Renard: I just wanted to pass by and send my best wishes
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Calvino Rabeni: Thor
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello thor
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Thor
    oO0Oo Resident: ty Mick
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks Mick :) Same to you and yours
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Mickorod Renard: I am having to do stuff in rl so please excuse my ,,distance
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: np
    Calvino Rabeni: Thor, do you know about the chat log recorder here?
    Mickorod Renard: so Cal..what time is it with you now?
    Calvino Rabeni: I live in the Second Life time zone
    Thor Lumet: no - don't think so - this is my first time here
    Calvino Rabeni: thanks
    Calvino Rabeni: the sessions chat is recorded and published on the group's web site at http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
    Calvino Rabeni: So we need to advise visitors and ask for their consent
    oO0Oo Resident: there's mental grounding, and then there is bodily grounding
    Thor Lumet: ok - I'm fine with that
    Calvino Rabeni: True 0
    oO0Oo Resident: sorry ~ timing
    Calvino Rabeni: and there's world grounding
    oO0Oo Resident: world as in?
    Calvino Rabeni: as in matching reality
    oO0Oo Resident: I don't follow
    Calvino Rabeni: like if I'm talking about a particular person who exists
    Calvino Rabeni: that's grounded in the world
    Calvino Rabeni: if I'm speculating about people in general, that's not
    oO0Oo Resident: i see
    Calvino Rabeni: it may be meaningful in other ways
    Calvino Rabeni: perhaps by being more a statement about myself than about the world
    oO0Oo Resident: Yaku?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes ?
    oO0Oo Resident: find myself wanting to give space for you to express yourself
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the tricky thing with confusing elements is that if i could bring them fully to paper in particular then those are already easier so solve and less confusing
    Mickorod Renard: wow Yaku, that was complex
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i am not concrete
    Calvino Rabeni: How I interpret this Yaku, is that the concept of solving is important to you because you mention more than once, and it seems like a generalized kind of notion
    Calvino Rabeni: and in addition it looks like you hope to be less confused
    Calvino Rabeni: and that has something to do with solving
    Calvino Rabeni: and maybe an implicit idea of the nature of knowledge
    Calvino Rabeni: but for now, that's what I "get" from what you've been saying
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Yes, i am for example confused when i say that ,,i wanted to study" and spend sufficiant time into it but i failed by the time.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Since i have had no success towards my performance other ppl tell that i was lazy by the time while i fully remember when i was sad and depressed
    Mickorod Renard: I have a similar issue, and it does get caught in a loop sometimes. The endless questions that often are absent of answers can cloud the mind
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and didn´t even go to any rl party´s and anything in real life
    Calvino Rabeni: So I get curious - what are the criteria by which you can actualy discriminate "success" and "failure" or maybe, more on track and less on track with respect to your objectives
    Yakuzza Lethecus: still this negative emotions where my focus by that time and i still have a rought time to bring ,,internal vs external perception together"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so my subject is ,,internal vs external perception" in conflicts
    Yakuzza Lethecus: less performance let´s other ppl stereoype in the direction of stupidity and lazyness
    oO0Oo Resident feels tender heart
    Calvino Rabeni smiles at oO0Oo
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i did for exampl a job training as a metal worker while having had a concept of wanting to study computerscience
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i have experiences that i even had to redo a year at middleschool because of english and german language subjects during my schooltime
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and never performed in english betten then 4 -> which is a barely sufficent mark here
    Yakuzza Lethecus: while accpeting my stupidity for a while i made the experience that under the right conditions i actually can learn better
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and now i am very much confused in ,,what i can do" ,,what i can change"
    Mickorod Renard: from my perspective your english is better than mine,,and I am english
    Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes I suspect, learning has a trajectory from simple to complex, and then turns around and eventually becomes simple again
    Calvino Rabeni: Agreed, Yaku's command of language seems extraordianary
    oO0Oo Resident: agreed
    Calvino Rabeni: And your spelling quality and typing speed is better than mine
    Calvino Rabeni: in my native tongue
    oO0Oo Resident: and your value and measure to me is way beyond these kinds of scales
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yesterday evening for instance, i went to a real life party, i would have stayed in secondlife since i barely knew anyone there but even secondlife is for close relatives ,,just being around the computer" all the time and i can´t brng the issue of ,,internal vs external perception" in check there either
    Mickorod Renard: not wishing you to fall into complacency Yaku, but sometimes things happen in life at a certain pace and in a certain way..the control angle can be an obstacle
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello quendrida
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Quen
    oO0Oo Resident: hi quendrida
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks for the conversation everyone...
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm called away
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care cal
    Mickorod Renard: bye for now Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Mickorod Renard: HNY
    Calvino Rabeni: Good meeting you Thor
    Thor Lumet: likewise - wont be the last time
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good conversation
    quendrida Skytower: hello all brb im on the phone sorry
    quendrida Skytower: it rang just as i logged in
    Mickorod Renard: I think I may have missed some of the discussion Yaku, but I would like to be clear in my understanding of the issue
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the issue before as i understood it was when i came to the point of mentioning how thoughts appear which i have a rough time to elaborate upon
    Mickorod Renard: ahh I see
    Mickorod Renard: well, even I struggle there, it is a frustration for me as I do not command a high academic level even in my native language
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i mentioned an example where i thought about ressource agalitarinanism as an example while only wanted to make that as an example of the 1000 things i am talking about all day while being unable to solve and elaborat further
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so it wasn´t that clear as an example and i didn´t intend to bring the subject to that subject but of appearing thoughts that create discomfort
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well it came over to a ground thing of what i really mean
    Mickorod Renard: well, I think that it helps to immerse oneself in appropriate literature and groups that deal with the area's of interest
    Mickorod Renard: I too went into philo groups here only to find myself frustrated by the words used
    oO0Oo Resident nods
    Mickorod Renard: but patience helps
    oO0Oo Resident: gentleness toward self if possible
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    quendrida Skytower: show yourself somw compassion
    Mickorod Renard: for sure,
    quendrida Skytower: keep a dictionary handy , and i agree lots op patience and compassion
    Mickorod Renard: also Yaku, one can learn the definition of a word, but it takes time to understand its full meaning in diferent contexts
    Mickorod Renard: these can change in diferent groups and subjects,,even an old timer like me is still a novice
    quendrida Skytower: we struggle with philosophy withinn the limits of language
    Yakuzza Lethecus: well, it´s not about those ,,big subjects" it´s more about what i need to do in order to mention and communicate issues appearing in my head
    Mickorod Renard: maybe they are not ready to be released yet
    oO0Oo Resident: or they want respectful space to emerge into
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, but some thoughts are in my head for many years and then i feel i have them ,,habitually unsolved"
    oO0Oo Resident: just good listening perhaps
    Mickorod Renard: I have some like that too Yaku, from years ago, the fact I still recall them is evidence to me that they are important yet I need to resolve them in my own time
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, here in play as being i often feel that when somebody is sometims talking about a real issue then sometimes issues solve themselves in my head too
    oO0Oo Resident: like beer fermenting, or a forest growing, the thoughts are bubbling, and compose themselves in the background over time. Give them room, they will approach you one day with a hearty complete grin.
    Mickorod Renard: this thing we talk about in PaB,,dropping,,is quite a good tool for some of these issues
    Mickorod Renard: very true oOOOo :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sounds like a natural form of mediation for me sam :)
    Mickorod Renard: this is a good platform,,PaB...for preparing a sound ground,,
    oO0Oo Resident: :)
    Mickorod Renard: what we learn here can often be the tools of expansion
    oO0Oo Resident: bubbly anyone?
    Mickorod Renard: when you think Yaku,,of those first weeks here on sl
    oO0Oo Resident: another name for champaigne (expansion)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think somehow everyone creates his own forms of mediation naturally but when i saw buddists and other mediating ppl in the past i was decieved by the notion that mediation means to ,,sit on the pillow and do an ohm" still 2 years back
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    Thor Lumet: I find that writing my thoughts down and go back to read them later provide an answer or one step closer to an answer
    Yakuzza Lethecus: pls go on mick, you didn´t finish ur question
    Mickorod Renard: well, Yaku,,I was thinking,,as I have known you some time now,,of how we have both developed over this time
    Mickorod Renard: and of how positive that developement has been
    Mickorod Renard: this is what I mean about it being a tool or basis or grounding,,for the expansion to express our thoughts
    Yakuzza Lethecus: thor: yes, sometimes i just feel that i can´t write it properly then i blurryly search in the direction of mindmaps to just flash all thoughts to paper because i can´t bring my thoughts in check
    Yakuzza Lethecus: mick: yes i think it is a great development
    Yakuzza Lethecus: even tho that i am still a bit unpatient and unfocused i often feel more confident in the engagement with new ppl as well
    Mickorod Renard: me too, i was so shy when I first arrived
    Mickorod Renard: so unsure of myself
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the aspect of dropping is still very hard for me and calvino´s asking into the details is also a good step too
    Thor Lumet: think we all beeen there Mick
    Mickorod Renard: yes, there is something very useful in the dropping
    oO0Oo Resident: indeed
    quendrida Skytower: what does dropping mean
    quendrida Skytower: or what is 'dropping'
    Yakuzza Lethecus: dropping aspects whom are bothering us i´d say
    Mickorod Renard: dropping can be described in many ways
    oO0Oo Resident: so... not strictly in the 9 or 90 sec drop yaku?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: getting rid of little monkeys that are making us confused and unfocuses is a bit more methaphorically
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think the 90 sec are a reminder
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i am still a learner
    Mickorod Renard: one such way would be to think of holding onto a crumpled map, all tense and feeling lost,,then if one drops the map and spreads it out, one see's the clarity of where one is
    quendrida Skytower: dropping . . . letting go
    oO0Oo Resident: gap in cognition
    Mickorod Renard: but often we are too conditioned to let things drop,,we are too controlling
    Mickorod Renard: attachments can be dropped too
    Mickorod Renard: oops
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i´d see pab as a melting point for ppl with contemplative knowledge where ppl with a general interest are also welcome i am here for 1 1/2 years now and had no knowledge back then to melt while i am influenced by everyone so many newcommers are more experienced then some of the ppl like me whom are in pab for a year
    Mickorod Renard: sometimes we are so attached to our possesions that we get all stressed out at the thought of loosing our job,,or whatever, yet if we let go of these attachments, the freedom provides a diferent sort of comfort and clarity
    Thor Lumet: soo true
    Thor Lumet: mick
    oO0Oo Resident: I was first invited here by you Yaku, and I am so very greatful, and just today I invited a guest, and in describing this place, I said to that person all the things you said to me.
    oO0Oo Resident: Your spirit spreads in this way
    Mickorod Renard: You are very special Yaku, and dont forget your influence in dreams and Wok too
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am usually just around here and just reading
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    oO0Oo Resident: how wonderful
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sometimes i hope for ppl like calvino the question the focus again
    Yakuzza Lethecus: because it´s not supposed to be general chat as i often fall into
    Yakuzza Lethecus: today was really great
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or is :)
    Thor Lumet: yes it is
    Mickorod Renard: I was suggesting the other day, that perhaps we should dig out the old logs and revisit some of Pema's earlier lessons
    oO0Oo Resident: I feel the same
    oO0Oo Resident: re: today being great
    Mickorod Renard: yes, I have enjoyed it,,but on that note I need to log of for a while
    Mickorod Renard: rl demands
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i also have to go it´s 1 pm
    Mickorod Renard: I will see u later,,Happy new year
    oO0Oo Resident: that's me too then. best wishes all!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care everyone, happy new year again

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