2011.05.15 13:00 - On Dreaming

The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

stevenaia Michinaga: hi Maxine
stevenaia Michinaga: having stange weather here this week, sunny, rainy, thunder, sunny
Maxine Walden: ah, yes, Steve, how has it been. Lots of weather!!
stevenaia Michinaga: preparing for connection to be lost at random moments
Maxine Walden: ah! thanks will keep that in mind...; talking about connection...
Maxine Walden: I was just putting my email in the logger so as not to lose the link after the session...
Maxine Walden: are you in heavy weather right now, thunder storms or the like?
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, I usually open the browser link as soon as it appears so it remains in my browser history
stevenaia Michinaga: but if you relog your email address it whould get delivered
Maxine Walden: yes, a good idea
Maxine Walden: So, how have you been? I always have enjoyed our talks but have not seen you one to one for while?
stevenaia Michinaga: "/17+emailaddress"
Maxine Walden: yes, thanks did that/17 email address
stevenaia Michinaga: I 'm around but scheduled change :)
stevenaia Michinaga: interesting who's in sync schedule wise
stevenaia Michinaga: I will ahve to assemble some self watering pots for garden shortly, however (so I have been told)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: shuld only take a few minutes, perhaps at the bell
Maxine Walden: Is that because of always being on the go? :) the self-watering?
Maxine Walden: ah, need to do it now
Maxine Walden: or soon
stevenaia Michinaga: no, I am not the gardener, just the assember
stevenaia Michinaga: assembler
Maxine Walden: I see, just the architect of the watering system
Maxine Walden: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, I can follow indtructions
stevenaia Michinaga: instructions
stevenaia Michinaga: but I will be back shortly... the voice from outside beckens
Maxine Walden: You know I discovered some of those water absorbing crystals for pots etc, which I use all the time now; they hold water and slowly release it for 7-10 days it seems. Rather nifty for me
Maxine Walden: see you when you get back?
stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm, look them up if you have a moment
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: brb
Maxine Walden: sure
Wol Euler: hello maxine, steve
Maxine Walden: hi,Wol, sorry did not see you, there, was looking up slow release watering crystals for Steve who is constructing a watering system for indoor plants
Maxine Walden: :)
Wol Euler: cool :)
Maxine Walden: hmm, found them some time ago and they really work, giving water over 7-10 days in most cases.
Maxine Walden: but how are you?
Wol Euler: me? fine, thanks, tired but OK
Maxine Walden: end of the day your way I imagine
Wol Euler: after 10pm, yes
Maxine Walden: yes, I envision your time during these 1pm SLT sessions, end of day...a good weekend?
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: back
Wol Euler: wb
stevenaia Michinaga: crisis in assembly averted
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Wol
Maxine Walden: wb, Steve. Oh, good!
Wol Euler: saturday was great, found a wonderful new Japanese restaurant; the taste actually reminded me of Kyoto :)
stevenaia Michinaga: gtsy
Wol Euler: hiya
stevenaia Michinaga: mmm, love japanese
Maxine Walden: ah, what a nice memory for you, Wol!
stevenaia Michinaga: they seem to be springing up everywhere around here
Wol Euler: yeah, it really was :) reconstructed the visit for me as I sat there
Maxine Walden: Japanese restaurants, Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Wol Euler: so much so that I started thinking about going back ...
Maxine Walden: hmm, oh really Wol. Must have been a powerfully wonderful memory and time for you in Kyotot
Maxine Walden: Kyoto
stevenaia Michinaga: nice, I don't seem to travel much
Wol Euler: no single thing in particular, maxine, but it was a wonderful time and a lovely place
Maxine Walden: hmm
Maxine Walden: So nice when sensory things, smells, tastes, visuals bring memories so vividly to mind
Wol Euler nods.
stevenaia Michinaga: have your dreams been influenced by your travels to Japan, Wol?
Wol Euler: I should mention, actually, that I eat sushi once a week or so, and my usual place *never* triggered that memory cycle
Maxine Walden: :)
Wol Euler: mmmmm, I don't think so, steve
Wol Euler: not that I can identify
stevenaia Michinaga: was thinking of my recent dreams and how you I really have no idea where this stuff comes from
Wol Euler: I dream these days of locations in SL or in WoW as often as places I visited recently in the physical world
Wol Euler: though I dream of places I knew as a child most often, the great majority of dreams
Maxine Walden: listening to both of you with interest...
Wol Euler: what were your recent dreams, steve?
stevenaia Michinaga: people I met in RL ( and those I met in SL and RL) seems to appear in my dreams, but never someone I met only in SL
stevenaia Michinaga: the thing is I;ve stopped writing them down so I do not remember the particulars as thye dessove like smoke over time when they aren;t written down
stevenaia Michinaga: my dream book is dissentigrating , jsut like the memories of dreams do
Maxine Walden: :)
Wol Euler smiles.
stevenaia Michinaga: it;s from the late 70's and all the pages are falling out of the binfing, held in place by rubber bands
stevenaia Michinaga: thank goodness the pages are dated
Wol Euler: you could have it rebound ...
stevenaia Michinaga: it was never a book of good quality
Maxine Walden: know that feeling! sometimes my mind feels like that...
Wol Euler: that's not the point :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I should begin a new one
Wol Euler: do both :)
Wol Euler: its quality is an emergent process, you gave it quality
Maxine Walden: sometimes dreams seem so precious, at other times not so...or other things distract?
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, but it is amazing to re-read something like a dream from 30 years ago and be able to remember it
stevenaia Michinaga: hard to think of possessing the memories of a dream like a thing
stevenaia Michinaga: they are so etherial in content
Maxine Walden: perhaps possessing is not quite the word, for me re memories of dreams, but more as if the memory lilts over time
stevenaia Michinaga: why do memories of dreams dissappear, Maxine, what makes them different from other memories?
Wol Euler: do they?
Wol Euler: in greater propoirtion, I mean
stevenaia Michinaga: I find that to be true, yes
Maxine Walden: such an interesting question, Steve. Wol has thoughts about this..
stevenaia Michinaga: the dreams that remain with me are far between
Wol Euler: more so than waking life? I doubt if I have memories of more than say 2 seconds per day of my life, on average, from all my waking hours
Wol Euler: I certainly don't have a memory of each day I lived
stevenaia Michinaga: I can generally reconstruct a day from a week ago, but not a dream
Wol Euler: hmmm, interesting ...
stevenaia Michinaga: like what I did last weekend
Wol Euler: actually I think that's true, when I consider it, so scrub my objection
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
--BELL--
Wol Euler: the film "inception" is perhaps relevant here
Maxine Walden: Your question, Steve mkaes me think of the significant emergence of dreams from the unconscious regions that we only glimpse of now and then...that they may more easily recede 'beyong the horizo' but Wol is bringing up conscious memory as well, then rethinking...
stevenaia Michinaga: I really liked that movie
Wol Euler: with the hero's statement that you know you aren't dreaming if you know how you got to where you are now.
Maxine Walden: please say more, wol re Inception
Wol Euler: that connectedness of our days is perhaps what makes possible Steve's reconstruction; and the non-connectedness of dream scenes to anything else is what makes recovering them harder
stevenaia Michinaga: hmm
Maxine Walden: hi, Qt
Wol Euler: hello qt
Qt Core: Hi all!
stevenaia Michinaga: true dreams do start from their own begining, usually not from waking up from sleep
Maxine Walden: We are musing about dreams and remembering them (or not) as opposed to remembering daily waking things...
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Qt
Wol Euler smiles.
Qt Core: good, i'm musing about strange drerams (remembered or not) i had in past couple days
stevenaia Michinaga: ..listens
Maxine Walden: please say more, Qt
Qt Core: even if i'm rem,embering only one and traces of another i have the clear feeling i have dreamt quite a lot in past nights
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Gaya
Qt Core: hi Gaya
Maxine Walden: hi, Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello :) Sorry I'm late, RL.
Maxine Walden: join our 'dream team', Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: :D
Wol Euler: hello gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: PaB dream team - Maxine, Qt, stevenaia & Wol :))
Wol Euler: :)
Qt Core: the main weirdes of this dreams is that there was my mother in them, something that has'nt happened since lat say a couple decades if not more
Maxine Walden: :)) yes, but you as well, Gaya
Wol Euler nods.
Qt Core: spelling error galore, sorry
Maxine Walden: np!
Gaya Ethaniel: What a team :)
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Maxine Walden: Yeah for the dream team!!
stevenaia Michinaga: suppose we would not get the same tv coverage as other dream teams
Maxine Walden: But, Qt, care to say anything more, not wanting to intrude, but it can be so interesting to suddenly begin to dream about something that has been 'out of the picture' moreless for some time
Qt Core: it wasn't pretty, we (as my mother and me) were witness of an accident in a station, remembering a sky station were there was a strange teleport mechanism and 97 people died for a malfunction
Wol Euler: O.O
Maxine Walden: Oh, my.
Qt Core: soem bus-like vehicle were dropped down a cliff and when they got to some specific speed the teleport would happen, but one of those just crashed
Maxine Walden: the film Inception comes to mind
Wol Euler: me too!
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Wol Euler: now, is that a natural association or was it planted? ;-)
Wol Euler: *implanted
Qt Core: didn't thought about that... the scenery reminded more the snow part than the bridge... and Inception was the only movie i saw last year
Maxine Walden: haha, me says looking around for evidence of 'dream-inceptors'
Wol Euler: well we were talking about the film moments ago ... perhaps the echoes of that triggered the association for us
stevenaia Michinaga: have you seen it Maxine?
Gaya Ethaniel: Interesting ... it's a bit similar to one of my dreams a while ago.
Gaya Ethaniel: Minus accident ...
Maxine Walden: yes, say Inception 3 or 4 times, which is very rare for me. I loved it and felt they 'got' some dream stuff right, from my view
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Maxine Walden: care to mention, Gaya?
--BELL--
Gaya Ethaniel: It's a dream I shared when Dreaming Quartz came to your Dream Workshop, Maxine.
Gaya Ethaniel: That I and 'father' were watching a train carrying people.
Maxine Walden: ah, yes, think I recall
Gaya Ethaniel: Dreaming made a few comments. One I remember particularly was on the fact that people were moving in different carriages.
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Like the buses Qt dreamt ...
Qt Core: in my dream i knew about the bus but i never saw them, it happen quite often that i know things but i don't see/experience them in my dreams
Qt Core: like some background
Maxine Walden: nods
Wol Euler: interesting...
Maxine Walden: as if out of sight but not out of dream-mind
Gaya Ethaniel: ah I see ...
Qt Core: as if my mimd tries to make sense of what happens creating "logical" explanation
Wol Euler: papering over the holes ...
Maxine Walden: stringing the beads or pearls...
Qt Core: i wonder if that happen when i dream or when i remember the dream while awake
Wol Euler nods at the questoin.
Maxine Walden: There is a phenomenon some people call 'secondary revision' which refers to the waking logical mind's attempt to put the dream in an 'order' which allows the waking self to 'think' about it. The assumption here is that the dream has its own 'logic' (primary not revision, but more primary vision)
Wol Euler onds
Wol Euler: *nods, even
Maxine Walden: I find that a useful concept, secondary revision, as there are different levels of thought, which are not always communicating
stevenaia Michinaga: layers of the dream, layers of remembering
Qt Core: i'm believing it happens while i dream as i often awoke when a dream become to weird, and starte being unconfortable, even if not nightmaris at all
Maxine Walden: and in my experience the dream images cannot really be expressed in 'language' of words, at least my language...
Maxine Walden: yes, steve
Maxine Walden: yes, Qt, that seems to be one of the protective functions, anxiety can waken us from dreams...good protection in many cases
stevenaia Michinaga: but no one jumps into a dream to escape reality
Maxine Walden: because, in my view, our unconscious minds does not really have a way to assess the danger, it just 'is' and so anxiety is a kind of sentinel
Wol Euler: not a sleeping dream :)
Wol Euler: but many people spend lots of energy and time escaping realities
Qt Core: not sure about anxiety, i just seem to be unable to stand too weird dreams... as if teleporting by dropping down a cliff is normal...
Maxine Walden: :) so true, Wol
Wol Euler: ((will there be a dream workshop this week?))
Maxine Walden: yes, Wol, there is, :) Tuesday 1pm SLT
Wol Euler: ((((thinking about how I'd have done that in a face-to-face conversation, interjecting a question that is irrelevant to the discussion, to get an answer and then return to it ))))
Wol Euler: ty
Wol Euler: then I'll hold on to my dream until then :)
Maxine Walden: weird dreams can be a bit disturbing, and it may not seem to help to say that often the dream is trying to work something out....
Wol Euler nods.
Maxine Walden: ah, Wol! Sorry
Wol Euler: not at all :) but it's nearly 2pm and you always have to leave punctually :)
Maxine Walden: yes, sad to say. And it is particularly difficult when the conversation is so rich
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps next week (or Tuesday)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Maxine Walden: Yes!
--BELL--
Maxine Walden: Will leave after the break, just being here with such good company is a pleasure
Alfred Kelberry: wuff!
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Maxine Walden: 90 sec underway
Wol Euler: hello boxy
Maxine Walden: Hi, boxy
Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy the rest of your weekend :)
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Maxine hi Boxy
Qt Core: bye Maxine and hi ALf
Maxine Walden: Lovely conversation, best to all. Bye
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks MAxine
Wol Euler: goodngiht maxine, take care
stevenaia Michinaga: I must go too, dinner required ginger
stevenaia Michinaga: bye all, see you soon
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Alfred :)
Qt Core: bye stevenaia
Wol Euler: bye steve, be gingery
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Alfred Kelberry: bunny :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye stevenaia :)
Gaya Ethaniel: I have to get offline for a bit. Nice seeing you all :)
Wol Euler: bye gaya, take care
Alfred Kelberry: um
Alfred Kelberry: everyone's leaving
Wol Euler: well, you are an hour late :)
Alfred Kelberry: touchy girl :)
Alfred Kelberry: qt is still here :)
Alfred Kelberry: and woly
Wol Euler: but I too will leave, I'm afraid; it's been a long day and I am tired.
Wol Euler: goodnight, take care
Alfred Kelberry: aww
Qt Core: bye wol, sleep well
Alfred Kelberry: fold well, woly
Qt Core: tomorrow it will be fun... all the three different road i use to go to work will be closed for some work... for weeks
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: work from home? :)
Qt Core: i will have to improvise
Qt Core: tried a bit when i had a broken hand... unproductive ( and not for the broken hand)
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: then take a bike
Qt Core: and it is sad as i would love it
Alfred Kelberry: why do you think it wasn't productive for you?
Qt Core: too many distractions at home
Alfred Kelberry: that's up to you to have them or not
Qt Core: never been strong enough :-)
Alfred Kelberry: maybe it'll help you to set up a separate "work space" at home
Qt Core: yes, that may be an option,
Alfred Kelberry: to me the whole commute and endless meetings are what unproductive :)
Qt Core: maybe just a laptop with only the software needed for work.... sadly that include a browser and there is a whole web of distraction in thatt
Alfred Kelberry: qt, well, web is like air nowadays :)
Qt Core: i have to go to very few meetings, but stil 20/40 min of driving to from work
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: i'd like to see this silly 9-5 work schedule go away
Alfred Kelberry: a lot of people think that if they're present at work during those hours then they work, despite the fact that they may not do a single productive thing duringthe whole day
Qt Core: my mother when had the choice (and before she had a husband and children) loved to do the 6am 14am shift, especially in the summer
Qt Core: she often said me that from 6am to 9am she worked more than the rest of the day as there was no one around
Alfred Kelberry: exactly
Alfred Kelberry: early morning or late evening are the most productive hours
Alfred Kelberry: i think it shoudn't matter where people work
Alfred Kelberry: of course it's hard to accept with generations that are used to 9-5 schedule
Qt Core: especially if you don't need to touch the things you work with, like servers (if you aren't the server admin)
Alfred Kelberry: it should be about actual problem at hand, not imaginary "work place" and "work hours"
Alfred Kelberry: well, yes... if you're a baker you can't exactly apply this concept
Alfred Kelberry: service industry has to abide by the hours
Alfred Kelberry: i hope you'll tell us tomorrow how your commute went :)
Qt Core: :-)
Qt Core: i'm going to sleep now, i'l have to be on my way a little earlier tomorrow to have the tome to get lost and find a way
Alfred Kelberry: ok, ciao :)
Qt Core: ciao