2012.01.30 13:00 - Openness Can Be Alarming to People

Eliza posted this session from the auto-listener database...

[13:03] Wol Euler: hello mick
[13:03] Mickorod Renard: hi Wol
[13:04] Mickorod Renard: :))
[13:04] Wol Euler: how#s life?
[13:04] Mickorod Renard: not too bad thanks,,how bout you?
[13:04] Wol Euler: pretty good
[13:04] Mickorod Renard: great
[13:04] Wol Euler smiles.
[13:04] Wol Euler: yeah, can't complain
[13:04] Mickorod Renard: :)
[13:04] Wol Euler: january nearly over
[13:05] Wol Euler: survived another one :)
[13:05] Mickorod Renard: yes, and the weather has been pretty good over here
[13:06] Mickorod Renard: I had the notion that Aph was doing a talk at this time
[13:06] Mickorod Renard: hi alfie
[13:06] Wol Euler: oh, perhaps she is :)
[13:06] Wol Euler: hello boxy
[13:06] Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
[13:06] Alfred Kelberry: well landed!

[13:06] Wol Euler: hello naturespaw, nice to see you again
[13:06] Alfred Kelberry: in mick's lap
[13:06] Mickorod Renard: i am prob mixed up as usual
[13:07] Mickorod Renard: thats cool with me alf
[13:07] Naturespaw Bestijl: Hello :)
[13:07] Alfred Kelberry: hi, nature
[13:07] Mickorod Renard: bonsoir Nature
[13:07] Alfred Kelberry: um, queen of darkness today, woly? :)
[13:07] Wol Euler: something like that :)
[13:07] Lawrence Vyceratops: hello
[13:08] Wol Euler: I was in a roleplay place for a while on the weekend, didn't change clothes
[13:08] Alfred Kelberry: *notes a dagger*
[13:08] Mickorod Renard: hi Lawence
[13:08] Alfred Kelberry: ah
[13:08] Naturespaw Bestijl: Pretty neat, Wol
[13:08] Wol Euler: lawrence, hello
[13:08] Naturespaw Bestijl: Hey Lawrence
[13:08] Wol Euler: brb
[13:08] Mickorod Renard: kk

[13:08] Naturespaw Bestijl: what kind of role play, if I may ask?
[13:09] Mickorod Renard: are you new here Nature?
[13:09] Naturespaw Bestijl: Ah sorry, no. Just haven't been here that regularly lately.
[13:10] Alfred Kelberry: a rare guest :)
[13:10] Mickorod Renard: I wasnt sure as to what degree your question was set
[13:10] Wol Euler: I was just an observer, it was mediaeval period mildly odd village life :)
[13:10] Naturespaw Bestijl: Oh it was for Wol..
[13:10] Wol Euler: paragraph-RP
[13:10] Wol Euler: which is a very odd thing actually

[13:10] Mickorod Renard: we could say our role here is to be like God
[13:10] Wol Euler smiles.
[13:10] Mickorod Renard: :))
[13:10] Mickorod Renard: or Being
[13:11] Wol Euler: one might with some truth say that we are always roleplaying, everywhere
[13:11] Mickorod Renard: as such role play as Being
[13:11] Wol Euler: (or do you talk to your cat the same way you talk to your boss?)
[13:12] Alfred Kelberry: we're very good at playing roles
[13:12] Mickorod Renard: even our own lives are stories we play out
[13:13] Naturespaw Bestijl: we adopt different roles, in a sense to different circumstances
[13:13] Wol Euler nods.
[13:13] Mickorod Renard: yes

[13:14] Qt Core: Hi all
[13:14] Naturespaw Bestijl: Hello Qt
[13:14] Mickorod Renard: Hi Qt
[13:14] Wol Euler: buona sera qt
[13:14] Alfred Kelberry: qt :)
[13:14] Lawrence Vyceratops: h Qt

[13:14] Wol Euler cheers!
[13:14] Wol Euler: figured it out :)
[13:17] Qt Core: Do we have a topic ?
[13:18] Wol Euler: atm we are talking about roleplay, that all of life is rp-ing
[13:18] Mickorod Renard: I thought it was Aph's wu wei session
[13:18] Wol Euler looks around and shrugs :)

[13:18] Naturespaw Bestijl: wu wei?
[13:19] Mickorod Renard: yes, but we had better let her do it based on my lack of knowledge
[13:19] Wol Euler: a concept that comes up here fairly regularly, nature
[13:19] Alfred Kelberry: it's woly's sexy skirts session :)
[13:19] Wol Euler: "do without doing"
[13:19] Wol Euler: :-P
[13:19] Wol Euler: trees grow, but they don't "do" growing

[13:19] Qt Core: i often switch between thinking that yes all is rp and that all is personality "slicing" as one can't or wont always expose all his/her personalities traits

[13:20] Mickorod Renard: I am doing it but call it syncronicity, I think
[13:20] Wol Euler: letting the moment happen (in taoist terms)
[13:20] Alfred Kelberry: ouch... brb

[13:21] Mickorod Renard: can you phrase that another way QT?
[13:22] Mickorod Renard: ok,,I think I got it now
[13:22] Qt Core: like the difference between the let say work persona, the home persona and the friday-at-the-pub persona
[13:22] Wol Euler: ah, apparehntly the wu wei session was *yesterday* at 1pm
[13:22] Wol Euler: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/index.php?title=Chat_Logs/2012/01/2012.01.29_13:00_%E2%80%93_Wherefore_Wu_Wei%3F
[13:22] Mickorod Renard: Darn,,it must be cos I am euro
[13:23] Mickorod Renard: thats life
[13:23] Wol Euler: :)

[13:23] Naturespaw Bestijl: you raise a good point, Qt. Can you guys think of situations where personality traits may clash if expressed at the same time?

[13:23] Naturespaw Bestijl: Hehe. Aww, wu wei sounds really cool
[13:23] Qt Core: and for me that i don't touch my phone on we, mostly, so i read about it only this morning, ;-)
[13:24] Wol Euler nods.
[13:24] Wol Euler: aspects of yourself, let out to play at certain times only

[13:25] Mickorod Renard: I am still un-conditioning myself from that personality that overcame me due to years of work that involved being someone else all the time
[13:25] Wol Euler nods.
[13:25] Wol Euler: like an actor being taken over by his role
[13:26] Mickorod Renard: the worst was I had to be many people,,and also not trust anyone
[13:26] Mickorod Renard: yes
[13:26] Wol Euler: that must be incredibly stressful
[13:26] Naturespaw Bestijl: that's tough...
[13:26] Lawrence Vyceratops: most people, i would venture to say, live that way daily, Wol
[13:26] Naturespaw Bestijl: you're a spy :P
[13:26] Wol Euler: I doubt it, lawrence
[13:26] Mickorod Renard: I realized it had gone too far when i suspected alterior reasons why my wife cooked me this or that
[13:27] Wol Euler: certainly not mistrusting everyone
[13:27] Wol Euler: IMHO YMMV
[13:27] Lawrence Vyceratops: i mean to say that, most people live out a persona
[13:27] Wol Euler: that's hard, mick.
[13:27] Alfred Kelberry: mick, i recall your saying on trust from berlin :)
[13:27] Wol Euler: ah, ok, we can definitely agree on that :)
[13:27] Mickorod Renard: it wasnt so much as not trusting it was the realisation that in my field there was no truth
[13:27] Lawrence Vyceratops: most people live out an ideal
[13:27] Qt Core: i've stopped reading at me, mick, wondering what those reasons could be ... ;-)
[13:28] Mickorod Renard: he he he

[13:28] Alfred Kelberry: no truth in your field?
[13:28] Mickorod Renard: well,,I give an example
[13:29] Mickorod Renard: Tax evasion
[13:29] Alfred Kelberry: hmm
[13:29] Mickorod Renard: and things like that
[13:29] Lawrence Vyceratops: there is hardly truth in any field :)
[13:31] Alfred Kelberry: not sure i understand, mick
[13:32] Naturespaw Bestijl: You were in government, mick?
[13:32] Wol Euler: (I can take this out of the log, mick)
[13:32] Mickorod Renard: well,,things that need investigating are usually being investigated because they are irregular,,and as such lost in a fog of mystery
[13:33] Mickorod Renard: and so forth
[13:33] Mickorod Renard: simple questions are of no use
[13:33] Mickorod Renard: it gets very deep
[13:33] Alfred Kelberry: hmm
[13:34] Mickorod Renard: and very psycological
[13:34] Alfred Kelberry: it sounds like you describe wu wei :)
[13:34] Alfred Kelberry: vague and deep :)
[13:34] Mickorod Renard: he he
[13:35] Mickorod Renard: anyway,,its nice now to just be me
[13:35] Alfred Kelberry: *pats mick's back*
[13:35] Mickorod Renard: ty
[13:35] Mickorod Renard: the wierd thing is,,some folk find my openness odd
[13:35] Alfred Kelberry: it's good to have just you on this blue cushion :)

[13:36] Alfred Kelberry: openness can be alarming to people

[13:36] Mickorod Renard: I think you are right Alf
[13:36] Alfred Kelberry: there's a thin line
[13:36] Qt Core: that often is taken as a sign of an hidden agenda
[13:37] Alfred Kelberry: and also culture-dependant
[13:37] Naturespaw Bestijl: true, boxy
[13:37] Qt Core: as "it could not really be"
[13:37] Alfred Kelberry: yes... something's fishy going on :)
[13:37] Naturespaw Bestijl: Why can't we just accept people for who they are :P
[13:37] Wol Euler: 42
[13:37] Alfred Kelberry: we can
[13:37] Mickorod Renard: I see your point QT,,that was though how I was,,thinking that something too obvious was suspicious
[13:38] Alfred Kelberry: i on the contrary like openness
[13:38] Mickorod Renard: me too
[13:38] Alfred Kelberry: and i think most of the time you can sense if it's genuine
[13:39] Alfred Kelberry: unless it's a really good actor :)

[13:39] Mickorod Renard: I think I now accept all as ok,,even though I may think some things are wierd..its still someones story,,which is real to them so thats fine

[13:39] Alfred Kelberry: meryl streep could probably fool me :)
[13:40] Mickorod Renard: I often think about this,,in my attempt to understand the word I never remember

              [equanimity, Mick ;-)]

[13:40] Alfred Kelberry: question: what are least open/genuine places you've been to or visited?
[13:40] Qt Core: maybe most high school theatre clubs members too in my case ;-)
[13:40] Alfred Kelberry: :)
[13:41] Mickorod Renard: disney land paris
[13:41] Alfred Kelberry: ha! :)
[13:41] Mickorod Renard: he he
[13:41] Alfred Kelberry: it's a good one. explain yourself! :)
[13:41] Naturespaw Bestijl: lol!
[13:41] Mickorod Renard: everything was too small to be real
[13:41] Alfred Kelberry: ah, visual perception. interesting.
[13:42] Alfred Kelberry: to me it was high profile parties with important/famous people - total role play
[13:42] Wol Euler nods.
[13:43] Naturespaw Bestijl: *rolls eyes*

[13:43] Mickorod Renard: I always acted like an ass,,which was closer to the real me anyway
[13:43] Wol Euler: "cocktail parties" are almost intentionally totally worthless events
[13:44] Alfred Kelberry: yes, level of awarenss is 0 :)
[13:44] Alfred Kelberry: mick, if i'm right, i think i know what you mean
[13:44] Mickorod Renard: :))
[13:47] Mickorod Renard: if a party didnt involve swinging off the chandeliers and making rude suggestions to the sexiest ones it wasnt worth attending
[13:47] Qt Core: what about exended famili gathering ? over 20 people at least i mean.

[13:47] Naturespaw Bestijl: isn't family where we're supposed, to be able to be ourselves the most?
[13:47] Alfred Kelberry: sounds like fun :)
[13:48] Wol Euler wonders about "supposed"
[13:48] Mickorod Renard: there are cultural diferences Nature
[13:48] Alfred Kelberry: "supposed"... not sure
[13:48] Wol Euler: snap
[13:48] Alfred Kelberry: boom boom
[13:48] Wol Euler: it's an ideal, I guess, something that the culture at large thinks we should have
[13:48] Alfred Kelberry: yes
[13:48] Naturespaw Bestijl: agreed

[13:50] Mickorod Renard: I think I may have been an extrovert,,externally,,but like qt may hae suggested earlier,,that may have been a cover up for my insecurities
[13:50] Naturespaw Bestijl: sometimes it's so weird though, when other people around you are really fake, you almost seem to need to be fake too
[13:50] Qt Core: hi Zon
[13:50] Mickorod Renard: Hi Zon
[13:51] Qt Core: it become less tiring that trying to explaining yourself each time, mick
[13:51] Wol Euler: hello zon
[13:51] Naturespaw Bestijl: hey zon
[13:51] Zon Kwan: hey all
[13:51] Lawrence Vyceratops: what does it mean to be yourself?
[13:51] Lawrence Vyceratops: hi Zon

[13:51] Mickorod Renard: I pondered that once Nature,,like my more succesful mates who pulled more women seemed better at telling better tales about their non existant wealth and so forth
[13:51] Wol Euler: I'm not sure, Lawrence. What do you think it means?
[13:52] Qt Core: how many century we have ? or nanoseconds ?
[13:53] Lawrence Vyceratops: i ask because it's said so often. why do we say it?

[13:53] Zon Kwan: to be as itegrated as possible
[13:53] Zon Kwan: integrated
[13:53] Wol Euler: perhaps to encourage each other?
[13:53] Lawrence Vyceratops: encourage what?

[13:54] Mickorod Renard: I thought I was beginning to relearn who I was,,but then sometimes I get the feeling i should re join the rat race again in case that is the real world
[13:54] Zon Kwan: according to who is that the real world ?
[13:54] Mickorod Renard: :))

[13:55] Mickorod Renard: well,,I meant the regular world

[13:55] Qt Core: why set for the regular when you have your own special one ? ;-)

[13:56] Zon Kwan: regular means defined by others

[13:56] Mickorod Renard: I like the special one I have found,,that mainly involves you guys,,but I fear that it may not be the regular one for most of the planet and this goes against logic
[13:57] Alfred Kelberry: why?
[13:57] Zon Kwan: hm
[13:57] Zon Kwan: what logic
[13:57] Wol Euler: on the other hand, looking at the rest of the planet, I don't think logic plays any large part
[13:57] Alfred Kelberry: we're one place of many

[13:57] Wol Euler: our illogic is at least harmless and well-intentioned

[13:57] Qt Core: so the regular one is the point of contact of ours specials ones, where we have to agree on common procedures to keep ourself alive ?
[13:57] Wol Euler: and occasionally amusing
[13:57] Alfred Kelberry: from our pov, woly :)
[13:57] Mickorod Renard: yes, thats why i like it
[13:58] Zon Kwan: if millions of flies like shit. i still dont
[13:58] Wol Euler: of course ours, boxy, whose else can we have?
[13:58] Mickorod Renard: thats a good point Zon
[13:59] Naturespaw Bestijl: Hehe why be the sheep who walk around blindly running into walls

[13:59] Alfred Kelberry: i mean, it's good to ack that some may think of us as a satanic cult of mayhem for what it's worth :)
[13:59] Wol Euler: sure
[13:59] Mickorod Renard: we aught to have a session,,related to Zons statement,,which is actually profound
[13:59] Qt Core: but then there are other common worlkds where we contact others by choice and not by need
[13:59] Wol Euler: but I don't see that we need to assign any value to that belief
[13:59] Wol Euler: not necessary even to try to contradict it
[13:59] Zon Kwan: but i thinks its balancing
[14:01] Alfred Kelberry: er
[14:01] Zon Kwan: bringing our own perception to others in away that is creative and contributing
[14:01] Alfred Kelberry: :)
[14:01] Zon Kwan: and responding
[14:01] Alfred Kelberry: decieving click-walk feature :)
[14:02] Wol Euler smiles.
[14:02] Zon Kwan: not imitating
[14:02] Lawrence Vyceratops: what is not imitating?

[14:02] Alfred Kelberry: woly, and no, we don't have to. just to ack - that's it :)
[14:03] Mickorod Renard: this relates to a long standing thought I have had,,,,,,like we determine our to one side of the ax (centre of balance) based on a shifted acceptance of what presently is accepted as ok
[14:03] Zon Kwan: by imitating i mean taking others opinions as granted
[14:03] Zon Kwan: cause they represent majority
[14:04] Lawrence Vyceratops: like when we follow a religion or a practice, a tradition?
[14:04] Zon Kwan: yup
[14:04] Zon Kwan: conditioning
[14:04] Zon Kwan: by what we have been taught
[14:04] Mickorod Renard: are we as a general world populus more moraly correct than those who existed a 1000 years ago?
[14:04] Alfred Kelberry: it's conformity. we're all susceptible to this.
[14:04] Lawrence Vyceratops: what is not conditioning?
[14:05] Zon Kwan: no
[14:05] Zon Kwan: morality is dedendent on current envirinment
[14:05] Mickorod Renard: but isnt that risky?
[14:05] Zon Kwan: no
[14:06] Zon Kwan: thas the way it is, lol
[14:06] Mickorod Renard: if that is the case why base laws on those written 2000 years ago?

[14:06] Wol Euler: not necessarily, Zon. Apartheid ended in South Africa, slavery ended in the US
[14:06] Wol Euler: etc
[14:06] Alfred Kelberry: zon, are you familiar with the asch experiment?
[14:06] Zon Kwan: no
[14:07] Wol Euler: people do notice when the social norm is abhorrent, eventually
[14:07] Zon Kwan: yes
[14:07] Zon Kwan: thats what i mean
[14:07] Alfred Kelberry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B738X-ibz2o [2:14]
[14:07] Zon Kwan: depends o n time
[14:07] Zon Kwan: in greece
[14:07] Zon Kwan: slavery was ok
[14:07] Wol Euler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd85SK7dESU
[14:07] Zon Kwan: not anymore
[14:07] Wol Euler: exactly

[14:08] Mickorod Renard: I saw a programm on indonesia the other day,,many live in such poverty while next to them is great wealth
[14:08] Zon Kwan: thas ok now for majority, perhaps not in future when humanity becomes more aware

[14:09] Naturespaw Bestijl: Hmm. Sorry guys, have to head back to the other world. Thanks for a great meeting again :)
[14:09] Alfred Kelberry: mick, you can see the same in the u.s. :)
[14:09] Wol Euler: bye nature, take care
[14:09] Mickorod Renard: as populations grow out of control I suspect more selfishness
[14:09] Mickorod Renard: bye Nature
[14:09] Qt Core: bye nature
[14:10] Mickorod Renard: yes Alf
[14:10] Mickorod Renard: and the divide widens here in the uk too
[14:10] Alfred Kelberry: nature :)
[14:10] Lawrence Vyceratops: gotta go. see you guys later
[14:10] Mickorod Renard: bye Lawrence
[14:10] Zon Kwan: eventually awarenes will grow but it takes time
[14:10] Qt Core: bye LAwrence

[14:10] Wol Euler: bye lawrence, be authentic
[14:10] Lawrence Vyceratops: haha ok

[14:10] Alfred Kelberry: how's germany doing in this regard, woly?
[14:11] Wol Euler: still pretty good. We have relatively high taxes, whcih people are happy to pay because they perceive that they are getting value for money
[14:11] Qt Core: that appens a lot in some milan subway when you don't know if the doors are going to open on the right or on the left... you just hope others known ;-)
[14:11] Wol Euler: including social stability as a received value
[14:11] Qt Core: h
[14:12] Alfred Kelberry: see, mick? learn from germans and you'll be fine :)
[14:12] Wol Euler smiles.
[14:12] Mickorod Renard: grin
[14:12] Zon Kwan: hm
[14:12] Wol Euler: oh mick, let me recommend a book to you, I think you'd like it. just a mo.
[14:12] Alfred Kelberry: qt, yes :)
[14:12] Mickorod Renard: I am very grateful to live in the uk
[14:12] Zon Kwan: no imitation...
[14:13] Mickorod Renard: and I am very fortunate too
[14:13] Wol Euler: Simon Winder "The man who saved Britain"
[14:13] Wol Euler: about the post-war period and James Bond :)
[14:13] Mickorod Renard: ok cool,,I seem to recognise his name
[14:13] Wol Euler: insightful and amusing
[14:13] Alfred Kelberry: hmm
[14:13] Alfred Kelberry: fiction?
[14:14] Alfred Kelberry: it's a relief mick knows who james bond is :)
[14:14] Wol Euler: mix of history, sociology, biography
[14:14] Wol Euler: and auto-bio

[14:14] Alfred Kelberry: i'll wait for a movie

[14:14] Mickorod Renard: I never think of Britain as being saved,,it sort of rampages on relentlesly in some mad fashion
[14:15] Alfred Kelberry: probably the empire complex
[14:16] Alfred Kelberry: france still can't get over it
[14:16] Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
[14:16] Mickorod Renard: its funny that
[14:16] Qt Core: now i have in my mind this image of the queen on a horse trained carriege on a bumpy road...
[14:16] Mickorod Renard: ok,,I will look that book up Wol,,thanks
[14:17] Mickorod Renard: Qt she still does that
[14:17] Alfred Kelberry: i'll watch iron lady instead
[14:17] Qt Core: with a trumpet guiding soldiers on battle...
[14:17] Alfred Kelberry: qt :)
[14:17] Mickorod Renard: in fact her husband is a world class horse drawn cart driver
[14:18] Alfred Kelberry: traditions
[14:18] Wol Euler: oh, so he's *not* a worthless and bone-idle parasite?
[14:18] Wol Euler looks around in shock. Who said that?
[14:18] Mickorod Renard: a back up plan in case he needs to go around collecting old scrap metal

[14:19] Mickorod Renard: ok,,I had better go and consider some sleep,,before I say something treasonish
[14:20] Wol Euler: heheheh
[14:20] Mickorod Renard: :))
[14:20] Wol Euler: goodngiht mick, have republican dreams
[14:20] Alfred Kelberry: do say it!
[14:20] Wol Euler: I shold move on too actually
[14:20] Wol Euler: quite tired
[14:20] Mickorod Renard: nite nite all,,take care
[14:20] Qt Core: 'night mick

[14:20] Alfred Kelberry: i like breaching conformity :)
[14:20] Wol Euler: goodnight all, be happy and non-conformist

[14:20] Alfred Kelberry: no, woly should stay
[14:20] Alfred Kelberry: not! going
[14:21] Wol Euler: hheheheheh
[14:21] Alfred Kelberry: :)
[14:21] Qt Core: sleeptime for me too, bye all
[14:21] Wol Euler: charming puppy
[14:21] Wol Euler: go
[14:21] Wol Euler: goodnight qt, take care
[14:21] Alfred Kelberry: ok...
[14:21] Alfred Kelberry: you win
[14:21] Wol Euler: sorry :)
[14:21] Alfred Kelberry: night :)
[14:21] Wol Euler: goodnight :)
[14:21] Zon Kwan: nite all