22-24 - There is a True Master Like That Within Each of Us

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    Fefonz is the scriber here.
    From that session what caught my eye was the way Moon decribes PaB to a newbie :)
    Moon Fargis: everyone is welcome here :)
    Moon Fargis: mostly we babble about everything
    Moon Fargis: from high phylosopical stuff to normal weather pheomenas :)
    Moon Fargis: ahyes and we log every of our babble talks and put them at our homepage
    Cooking or programming? - sounds delicious...
    Qt Core: many human activities reqiore planning and programming is just one of them, even cooking has the same issues
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Qt Core: (i had to choose between programming and cooking as a study path and career)
    Adams Rubble: interesting choice :)
    And towards the PaB birthday celebrations, some ideas are discussed, among them Adams' Chronicles project,
    and a beautiful image of Adams writing chronicles:
    One of my favorite issues of all, mainly since it is so far out, so out of reach, yet so fascinating in it's span,
    it's subtlety, it's infinite options to look at:
    Pema Pera: The great difficulty of talking about timeless time, or 0th time, is that it is something that is beyond the usual world picture . . . . and that is so hard to indicate . . ..
    Pema Pera: at the same time it is so totally different from anything we can put words on or point to
    Pema Pera: and at the same time it is also so mundane, since we're already living in it, living it
    Pema Pera: that paradox has to be seen through, not by words, but by, well, actual seeing . . . . .
    Pema Pera: indeed, Adelene, there is no possibility to leave timeless time, so strictly speaking no possibility to swith to it or away from it
    Pema Pera: but we can learn to see it
    Pema Pera: to open ourselves up for it
    Pema Pera: which means to strop trying to close ourselves off from it

    Solobill Laville: I personally cannot separate the experiential aspect of zeroth time
    Solobill Laville: from the experience of non-separation...that are part of the same
    Solobill Laville: So it is confusing, to me, to try and parse it out separately, if that makes any sense
    Solobill Laville: In other words...
    Solobill Laville: non-time is really a function of being "within" boundlessness
    Pema Pera: (the question is what to do with the "crack" that Aurel's profile quotes from Lenneard Cohen: "There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.")
    interestingly, this conversation became a little confrontal, after discussion of post-modernism was on the table.
    Since personally, though i know little aobut post-modernism, and already have some things to say against some of its conclusions (typical :)), i found in intersting.
    Threedee Shepherd: I know this sounds confrontational, and it is not meant to be: Given the meaning resides in the interaction of the object and the "viewer", do you do "art criticism" or " aurel's Art Criticism"?
    aurel Miles: it is confrontational
    aurel Miles: you know that
    aurel Miles: and you can keep it for yourself
    Threedee Shepherd: I am a retired scientist. I am post-modern, and then embodied. Science is a way of knowing. I will not be offended if it is said I did "threedee's science"
    aurel Miles: i never suggested you would
    aurel Miles: i simply declined to engage with your way of framing an issue
    aurel Miles: politely, i hope
    and more on the link.
    GOC all alone.
    At this conversation, Fael brings up a finnish (swedish) book he is reading lately, talking about big changes to come and 'the end of times'.
    Fael Illyar: "This generation, that now lives on earth, will see my return. It will not happen as you think and many will not recognise me. but listen to my speech and you'll understand who I am. That I will journey among you again means that the time for end times has began. Now is the time to sort weeds from plants. Know this and reform." My free translation from this book I have here in Finnish."
    For me it raised all my anti-religious/messiah genes, having bumped into so much of that stuff in the past, but those of you who wants to know more - follow the link :)
    And back to themes much closer to my heart - appereciation, appearances, and simply being 'lost' in the moment. Words that simple me can understand, and moreover feel, sympathize, and most important - practice!
    Solo starts with:
    Solobill Laville: Here's a though I had recently that I'd like to share
    Solobill Laville: It seems to really maximize any kind of "appreciative" experience
    Solobill Laville: is to try to transcend any "I" appreciate "that" type of thing
    Solobill Laville: So, perhaps, just letting the verb-side of appreciate fully become cultivated
    Solobill Laville: Just - appreciate, without any "I" or "it"
    Pema Pera: yes, Solo, definitely! Can you also give a concrete example (or more than one :-) ?
    Following Pema's lead to more concrete experiences, Solo finally comes to Music, Mid eighties, and Birds - at least two of tehm are on my favorite list too :) 
    Can you hear me as i smile inmy heart reading these lines? Solo - I hear you loud and clear Bro :)

    Solobill Laville: Here's one, then
    Solobill Laville: I was at an outdoor jazz festival in the mid 1980s
    Solobill Laville: Beautiful sunny day, great music, with a great friend
    Solobill Laville: the music was very ephemeral, and incorporated birds, and other natural sounds
    Solobill Laville: I was very "lost" in it
    Solobill Laville: When I looked up, there were dozens of birds flying over head
    Solobill Laville: I could not distinguish between them and the music, and it was very joyful
    Solobill Laville: (cliff notes summary)
    Solobill Laville: I imagine that is a not-so uncommon occurence, really :)
    And another gem from that session - A song from a zen maser, which i can't help but quote here in full:
    As Rinzai said:

          ``In this five-foot lump of red flesh there is a true
            person of no rank always coming in and going out;
            if you have not seen it yet, see it now!''

       . . .  It is always coming and going in and out of our body.
       When it goes out, if we see a flower, we become a flower;
       when we hear a beautiful bird's song, we become a singing bird.
       When we go within, we are hungry, sleepy, hot, and cold.
       There is a true master like that within each of us.

              We see a river and we are flowing without pause.
       We see the sky full of stars and we become it all.
       We dive into the suffering of all people, into society's miseries.
       Within this is a true person of no rank.

                                              Shodo Harada (1940 -- )
    And that's just the beginning of this long and insightful session. even i had the honor to contribute to it later... So as you probably know by now - a whole hearted recommendation for this link.

    A very interesting conversation about 'transhumanism' is going on here.

    Metafire Horsley: I think we are discussion about the term transhumanism.
    stevenaia Michinaga: it means my cat came between me and the keyboard
    Metafire Horsley: And what it implies and where the borders are to just "humanism" or so.
    Though i really liked the next observation:

    Metafire Horsley: It's so silent now. Are all people thinking deeply? :)
    Other augmentations of the human body follows, which brings the next comments that strongly drew my attention
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yet..some of the whys make me wince and some do not...
    aurel Miles: the physical idea - the process, the insult to the body, that's what makes me wince
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. yet some of the actual whys make ME wince.
    aurel Miles: such as?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: looking beautiful for someone..looking for approval.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: like an athelete.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: suffering for approval makes me wince.
    And i second that big times!

    two short meetings follow, one of them toatlly silent

    The changing times are shifting our thoughts and consciousness:
    arabella Ella: well what worked in the past may not work as well in the future
    arabella Ella: as we are living in changing times
    arabella Ella: shifting sands
    arabella Ella: and our practice of seeing things as arising
    arabella Ella: reflects these foresight methods

    it develops to interesting ideas about giving people more sunshine, and even balancing postures are discussed.
    So many issues color this conversation, i can only point you to read it.
    it jumps from avatars shapes and aura's to communism, politics, chat records, prizes, hugs (!) and more. so take a look at the zoo if you want to see the animals :)


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