19 -21 - Being Dreaming

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    ""Well," said Pooh, "what I like best -- " and then he had to stop and think. Because although Eating Honey was a very good thing to do, there was a moment just before you began to eat it which was better than when you were, but he didn't know what it was called." - Winnie the Pooh

    We spend about a third of our lives asleep, it’s no wonder that so much conversation can circle around the idea of dreams and imagery. Rising and falling from ‘Silent’ sleep and where it seems ‘Not much happened’, we rise to play with the idea of the world as ‘An open source kind of thing’, seeing ’doors of perception’, we arise from 'Quiet' and imagine an ‘enlightenment button’… ‘knowing nothing (for sure)’, we wake up after ‘dreaming dying’ , and sink back into sleep as ‘another moment passes’. We wake up again to a ‘Sci Fi Breakfast with the Wild Things’ and blink away the sleep as ‘geography’ makes its self known to us...


    2009.10.19 01:00 - Silent

    2009.10.19 07:00 - Not much happened

    2009.10.19 13:00 - An open source kind of thing Sharing Approaches - science and religion

    Pema Pera: when science burst onto the scene in its present form, some four hundred years ago, there had been experiments in technology for thousands of years, and most of the knowledge there was sectarian, as with religious traditions, Gen.
    Pema Pera: the big revolution around Galileo's time was to make progress an "open source" kind of thing
    Pema Pera: sharing rather than hoarding and bickering

    Pema Pera: In my conversation with Stim today, I said that in a hundred years viable religions will respect and collaborate, much as scientist do today

    Stim Morane: Eclecticism is common now, and so are discussions amongst the traditions. But there are reasons for them to hold to their own central emphases.
    Hana Furlough: but is it possible that certain approaches used by certain traditions are best suited to certain people?
    Stim Morane: Yes, Hana
    Stim Morane: And that is one of the reasons why the differences will and should remain.

    genesis Zhangsun: and what about as people come to share a common culture and old ones are destroyed as it seems is currently happening with globalization
    Pema Pera: ah, but in physics different approaches suit different researchers too!

    Stim Morane: Different approaches in physics probably don't = different views, Pema ... not in any deep sense. It's not analogous to spirituality.

    Zon Muhindra: if there is oneness behind this diversity that binds it togeter,,the realisation of it is much similar
    Pema Pera: yes, that's a key question
    Pema Pera: to what extent such a oneness can be found, and then can be communicated, respected, agreed upon to a sufficient extent . . . .

    Pema Pera: but when differences are found, the first reaction of the scientific community is: wow, there are seemingly very different way to do this calculation, or this experiment, let's see how they are connected
    Pema Pera: and not: let's develop them in great detail separately
    Pema Pera: and independently
    Hana Furlough: so pema, how might this relate to different religious traditions?

    Pema Pera: there are jumps, paradigm shifts, but they are followed by a long integration period . . . . on a collective level somewhat like what contemplative approaches see happening on an individual level

    2009.10.19 19:00 - Sleep paralysis and doors of perception

    Pila Mulligan: I'm looking forward to hearing more about your dream work at Maxine's session tomorrow

    Fox Monacular: I think I'll talk about sleep paralysis
    Pila Mulligan: sounds interesting, what is it?
    Fox Monacular: it's a phenomenon that happens at sleep onset or upon awakening
    Fox Monacular: but more often at awakening in the morning
    Fox Monacular: and your whole body is paralyzed, but you're aware of your environment
    Fox Monacular: and then often start to hallucinate
    Pila Mulligan: hmm, like the body is not yet awake but perception is no longer asleep?
    Fox Monacular: and some of the hallucinations very real, very scary
    Fox Monacular: yes, seems so
    Fox Monacular: and so people talk about all sort of thing
    Fox Monacular: like hearing stuff, feeling touched, even sexually harrased by some supernatural evil entity
    Pila Mulligan: sounds like the stuff of myths
    Fox Monacular: and the weirdest thing (that I like the most) is that people talk about feeling 'presence'
    Pila Mulligan: what do they report hearing?
    Fox Monacular: yes, myths, definitely!
    Fox Monacular: they hear all sort of things
    Fox Monacular: they hear voices sometimes, or sounds of movement

    Pila Mulligan: so how does this phenonmenon get explained?
    Fox Monacular: well, on the EEG level we know that a person experiencing sleep paralysis is actually in a sort of a state dissociation
    Pila Mulligan: is state dissociation another term for hallucination?
    Fox Monacular: so his body is still in REM (thus muscle paralysis, shallow breathing etc), he can still move his eyes
    Fox Monacular: but his mind is kind of awake
    Fox Monacular: it's like the opposite of lucid dreaming
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: lucid waking?
    Fox Monacular: actually people who have a lot of sleep paralysis often lucid dream too

    Fox Monacular: what's really striking to me is that the prevalence of SP is almost 40%

    Fox Monacular: I had many research participants tell me that just the fact that they talk to me about it an dthat I'm not surprised and tell them that there are many others is already helping cope with distress

    Pila Mulligan: unfortuantely the established boundary of academic dignity rejects a lot of things that deserve more dignity that they get
    Fox Monacular: I know, it's terrible:)
    Pila Mulligan: what the EEG is measuring then suggests similar organic conditions
    Pila Mulligan: booundary dissolving conditions
    Fox Monacular: or perhaps similar phenomanology?
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: so-called phenomena involve a distortion of ordinary perception -- rasining the quesiotn of how do we some to understand ordinary
    Pila Mulligan: come *
    Pila Mulligan: do we accept a pre-defined ordinary state?
    Fox Monacular: yes, and makes you wonder 'what else; are you missing?
    Pila Mulligan: :) yes

    doug Sosa: science is about curiosity, numbers is alimited vocaulary of reasonable representations.

    doug Sosa: OK i under stand it. Want my theory?
    Pila Mulligan: sure
    Fox Monacular: yes!
    doug Sosa: The mind is most active when asleep. On awakening there is new sensory input that forces the mind to reduce its activity to include a good impedance match with
    doug Sosa: the incoming. Sleep paralysis is because the mind, ehn in a good stable and active state ehn asleep takes a few moments to gear down to the lower level of activity when actually seeing part of the world.

    Fox Monacular: it's also a REM phenomenon - so REM psychophysiology - atonia and dreaming (hallucinations)
    Fox Monacular: intrude upon wake

    doug Sosa: the need to sleep - to be free and let things organize themselves - a kind of cleaning up - is very powerful.
    Fox Monacular: yes, sleep plays an important role in memory consolidation

    doug Sosa: If the brain needs cleaning out, perhaps the whole nervous system does.

    doug Sosa: but the switch from the free brain (mind) of sleep to the restricted brain of awakened percepton is, for many, exhausting.

    2009.10.20 01:00 - Quiet

    2009.10.20 07:00 - The enlightenment button

    Riddle Sideways: I had been thinking through the daily practices we do

    Riddle Sideways: the aerobic exercises I went through to get to this session only 3 minutes late

    Riddle Sideways: we get ourselves into states that others just say "why you do that"

    Riddle Sideways: was thinking about the self-imposed states we do
    Riddle Sideways: the hurry-up and rush so we have more time to relax
    Riddle Sideways: actually, it came about couple days ago while driving

    Riddle Sideways: I passed a car that had a mom and daugther
    Riddle Sideways: both looking the opposite direction
    Riddle Sideways: with looks on their faces of maybe disgust
    Riddle Sideways: the way a teenager and a parent can get

    Riddle Sideways: the very next car had a smiley happy singing with the radio person

    Riddle Sideways: well, a little 15 minute bell went off in my head

    Riddle Sideways: take a breath and think my my

    Riddle Sideways: there are the BIG practices that we do
    Riddle Sideways: the stop the car, the sit for an hour, etc

    Riddle Sideways: then there are the little 9-sec, 90 sec, a moment, a glimpse

    2009.10.20 13:00 - I Know Nothing(for sure)

    Zon Muhindra: ah..u have classes here ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, there are some event’s through www.kira.org
    Yakuzza Lethecus: pab is also part of kira ?!
    Mickorod Renard: does entropy relate to ones lifetime as well as expanding universes?
    Wol Euler: sorta kinda.
    Wol Euler: (to both :)
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Wol Euler: like your gut getting soft and your teeth and hair falling out
    Wol Euler: (the generic "you", not Mick )
    Wol Euler: that could be called entropy.
    Mickorod Renard: I am sure I havent posted a rl pick of myself
    Wol Euler: :)
    Mickorod Renard: I was thinking that the expanding universe of my life is now retracting and due to implode one day
    Mickorod Renard: well,,otherwise it will continue to expand until it breaks free and creates its own mini universe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles

    Mickorod Renard: lots of mini micks in fractal form
    Wol Euler: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: You have children, Mickorod?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: order in disorder?
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,
    Mickorod Renard: there is no order in this household

    Mickorod Renard: as they say,,there is only now

    SophiaSharon Larnia: how does the now relate to entropy?
    Archmage Atlantis: I say, for me there is now
    Zon Muhindra: entropy is past ?

    Archmage Atlantis: If something is dreamed, I will come later
    Zon Muhindra: now is all

    Mickorod Renard: its entropy all the way

    Mickorod Renard: in every direction

    Zon Muhindra: if its entropy..where does new things emerge ?
    Mickorod Renard: I think entropy is the direction of expansion
    Zon Muhindra: what is it that expands
    Mickorod Renard: in a silly non expert way

    2009.10.20 19:00 - Dreaming Dying (This session was very interesting and deserves to be read in its entirety, as Fox describes her experience of dying multiple times in dreams….)

    Eos Amaterasu thinks, 90 seconds over nowness

    Pila Mulligan: Fox gave some case studies from her lab that were difficult sounding
    Eos Amaterasu: I think that's often the case with experiences that are rare or strange or not often discussed, or not experienced frequently

    Eos Amaterasu: there's some parallels to PaB and "suspension"

    Paradise Tennant: well we are mixing rl and sl right now ..and it seems normal too ...does it not ?
    Eos Amaterasu: Hmm.... and during 90 secs PaB here it's also in both SL and RL
    Pila Mulligan: I've had dreams about SL people as RL people, but not dreams with an SL enviroment
    Eos Amaterasu: and mixing waking & dreaming, sometimes drifting off, coming back

    Eos Amaterasu: dreaming is another way appearance presents itself

    Paradise Tennant: i usually try to just relax into the present moment what ever it is .. and be in the flow ..I never find it overwhelming .. it seems when you trust and relax .. the support is there

    Eos Amaterasu: I think there's a relation between the disassociation from motor control in sleep paralysis and the letting go of controlling (body and mind) in PaB
    Fox Monacular: it's interesting how there are many dreams that are sort of mundane or not particularly special, and then there are periods when some theme imposes itself
    Eos Amaterasu listens
    Fox Monacular: like these past couple of weeks I was dying in my dreams every single night

    Fox Monacular: and dying got progressively more and more symbolic

    Fox Monacular: ok, so in the beginning of the death cycle, I dreamt that I just died... got killed randomly or something…and then I started to get captured for something that I did…at some point I was like Prometheus - I revealed some great secret to people…and I knew I had to get captured and be publicly executed but then got reborn…seriously J…and the last one I was watching myself die in place of someone else…I remember thinking that I should be mindful not to miss the moment of death.

    2009.10.21 01:00 - Another moment passes

    Tarmel sits in the Pavillion and contemplates the Big Bang... but what came before it?

    2009.10.21 07:00 - Sci Fi Breakfast with the Wild Things

    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes if I'm busy during the day I'll wake and watch a movie in the middle of the night... find them therapudic
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sometimes i wake up in the middle of the night and watch one
    Eliza Madrigal: !!
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah

    Eliza Madrigal: I was thinking of taking my kids to see Wild Things, and this morning the lines jumped out, she says to Paul "Never give your heart to a wild thing."

    SophiaSharon Larnia: if you never give your heart to a wild thing, then why give your heart at all

    2009.10.21 19:00 - Geography

    stevenaia Michinaga: well welcome to wednesday evening :)
    Benedizione Vita: thank you
    stevenaia Michinaga: our paths haven't crossed (that I remember)
    Benedizione Vita: a few times, I think, though not terribly often
    stevenaia Michinaga: it could be my memory too, there doesn't seem to be much of that lately
    Benedizione Vita: you might need to reboot
    stevenaia Michinaga: me?
    stevenaia Michinaga: why do you say that?
    Benedizione Vita: to reset your memory
    stevenaia Michinaga: grins, if only it was that easy
    Benedizione Vita: I wish
    Benedizione Vita: :)
    Benedizione Vita: though I think there is a role of sleep in memeory (if I remember correctly(
    stevenaia Michinaga: good point, that may be my problem, to beusy in Awake to be busy rebooting asleep
    stevenaia Michinaga: strange the way RL and sleep are forever in a struggle with each other

    Benedizione Vita: yes, I would like if sleep won more often ;)

    Paradise Tennant: how .. sometimes a vivid dream illustrates a kind of understanding that is not bound to our every day .. reality



    (minor spelling errors corrected)

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