2009.03.16 19:00 - What makes fun fun

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Threedee Shepherd. The comments are by Threedee Shepherd.

    Pila Mulligan: hi Ade
    Adelene Dawner: hiyo ^.^
    Pila Mulligan: another lion approaches
    Adelene Dawner: Hiya, Luv. You ddin't miss anything. ^.^
    Pila Mulligan: hi threedee
    Threedee Shepherd: hi
    Pila Mulligan: howzit?
    Adelene Dawner: Pillow, Luv?
    Pila Mulligan: hi Eliza
    Pila Mulligan: howzit = Hawaii pidin for how are you?
    Eliza Madrigal: and gals
    Pila Mulligan: g*
    Pila Mulligan: how are you Eliza?
    Threedee Shepherd: long almost useful day
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, yourself?
    Adelene Dawner: hehe :)
    Pila Mulligan: fine thanks
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Almost useful hah
    Pila Mulligan: sounds pretty good
    Threedee Shepherd: well when the entire result of 5 hours of work is tracking down a defective cable from computer to pprojector, it feels useless
    Pila Mulligan: :) yes, it could seem so
    Pila Mulligan: but the problem was solved
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Can see that
    Threedee Shepherd: Yes, aso now I am where I intended to be when the day started
    Pila Mulligan: the law of conservation of energy requires that for every 5 hours saved by technology, it has to charge you an equal am ount of wasted time
    Threedee Shepherd: yes, that is one of many such laws, such as: You cab do almost perfectly with a computer in 30 hours what you could have done adequately by hand in 30 minutes
    Threedee Shepherd: *can do
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: ah, the price of perfection
    Eliza Madrigal: : )
    Adelene Dawner rolls her eyes a bit where Three can't see her.
    Threedee Shepherd: "just one more small change".......
    Eliza Madrigal: That would be by hand also though...prob?
    Pila Mulligan: could be
    Eliza Madrigal: Except I guess that the computer gives so many options...so many chances to go into a "new" direction
    Pila Mulligan: when I putzed around with coding, I was always polishing the appearance of the source code, as if it mattered
    Pila Mulligan: Eliza, may I ask where abouts you are in rl? maybe I have forgotten
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Florida
    Pila Mulligan: ah yes, I did forget
    Pila Mulligan: thanks
    Eliza Madrigal: No worries :) Not particularly exciting
    Pila Mulligan: well, I also forget things more easily than I'd like, and I rememebr talking about Florida with you before
    Eliza Madrigal: I seem to remember details about people here a little more clearly than in rl...
    Eliza Madrigal: people often know who I am and it takes me a bit
    Pila Mulligan: interesting, maybe because of the typing
    Eliza Madrigal: perhaps
    Pila Mulligan: do you guys have frangipangi?
    Pila Mulligan: plumeria we cal it here
    Pila Mulligan: a flowering tree
    Pila Mulligan: tropical
    Eliza Madrigal: yes....stick flower...
    Pila Mulligan: isn't it a cool plant
    Eliza Madrigal: Very
    Eliza Madrigal: well...sort of
    Pila Mulligan: sor of ...?
    Eliza Madrigal: lines switched again
    Pila Mulligan: t*
    Eliza Madrigal: the sort of came before the yes
    Pila Mulligan: :) lag confusion
    Pila Mulligan: they are used in making leis here, a lovely flower and nice fragrnace
    Threedee Shepherd: "lag confusion" -- seems like there should be a really wonderful definition for that having nothing to do with SL
    Eliza Madrigal: I remember hearing that
    Eliza Madrigal: haha...applies to memory gap too
    Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumeria
    Pila Mulligan: ahh, memory lag, sounds familiar
    Eliza Madrigal: these are lovely...yes, what I was picturing
    Pila Mulligan: I just learned they are not indigenous to Hawaii :)
    Pila Mulligan: from theat link
    Eliza Madrigal: My great-grandmother was a fantastic gardener....lots of surprises everywhere...
    Eliza Madrigal: I lived in her flowerbeds...seemed like she grew everything available
    Threedee Shepherd: Is anything really indigenous to anywhere if you go back far enuf?
    Pila Mulligan: not much -- lava maybe :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Of course...didn't *live* there, but did spend a LOT of time in there
    Pila Mulligan: gardens and greenthumbs, I have the first and envy the second
    Threedee Shepherd: toxic-thumb, for me :(
    Eliza Madrigal: Here people get very irritated about so many plants not being indigenous and therefore not thriving, having to pay to re-do things over and over
    Pila Mulligan: mine is kinf of olive drab
    Eliza Madrigal: I can't say I have her gift either ::sigh::: but I do appreciate it
    Eliza Madrigal: or do in others I mean
    Pila Mulligan: the non-indigenous plants here are numerous, but only the invasive ones a re a problem
    Threedee Shepherd: so, a question: Why do we react so positively to perfusions of flowers, on a Being level?
    Threedee Shepherd: profusions
    Pila Mulligan: I would never have built where I am now were it not for an invasive plant having ruined the forest in this area
    Pila Mulligan: flowers are symbolic, Threedee, is my answer
    Pila Mulligan: they are almost the perfect representations of maya
    Threedee Shepherd: flowers are. where does the symbolism come from?
    Pila Mulligan: good question
    Pila Mulligan: why does a bee floy to a flower
    Pila Mulligan: fly*
    Eliza Madrigal: they are startling, yet not intrusive...
    Threedee Shepherd: nectar
    Pila Mulligan: and insticnt
    Pila Mulligan: maybe we have some similar instcint
    Pila Mulligan: typos x 2
    Pila Mulligan: instinct
    Threedee Shepherd: natrural selection. Bees that were mildly attracted to color and scent...etc.
    Pila Mulligan: colors seem to play a big role in many aspects of nature
    Threedee Shepherd: few of us could survive on flower nectar--not enuf of it
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: absolutely :)
    Pila Mulligan: in a meditation I once had the sense that flowers were the orignal inspiration for mandalas
    Threedee Shepherd: could be
    Pila Mulligan: mandalas = symetric colorful spirtual art
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm...unfolding
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pila Mulligan: and attractiing :)
    Threedee Shepherd: So, to expand the exploration, is shit beautiful to a dung betle?
    Pila Mulligan: of course
    Eliza Madrigal: Certainly not repulsive...compelling in some way
    Pila Mulligan: and flys
    Eliza Madrigal: out of need....
    Pila Mulligan: a veritable maggot heaven
    Adelene Dawner: http://www.psychologicalscience.org/...r-ripeness.cfm
    Threedee Shepherd: this goes sideways into a conversation Ade and I started a bit ago. Why are thinds that are fun, fun?
    Threedee Shepherd: *things
    Pila Mulligan: interesting question
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmmm....
    Pila Mulligan: there probably would need to be a subjective reason taken on a case by vcase basis
    Threedee Shepherd: why subjective rather than objective
    Pila Mulligan: as to a generalization, it must relate to happiness somehow, the abstraction of self realization
    Pila Mulligan: well, so many different things make different people happy
    Eliza Madrigal: Kasyapa
    Pila Mulligan: Kasyapa?
    Threedee Shepherd: kas-what-pa???
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm not great with the story...gimme a moment
    Pila Mulligan: ya :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Mahākāśyapa
    Eliza Madrigal: Often told story...the flower being the entire message of the "sermon" though only one person was believed to have understood and simply smiled in response
    Pila Mulligan: very Zen :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Three, the idea of asking why is fun, fun...great. Why is play, play, and not work...aside from that we call it that
    Threedee Shepherd: perhaps the same question
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Threedee Shepherd: Work apprently needs to accomplish something as a result. Play does not, although it can.
    Pila Mulligan: but work can be fun
    Eliza Madrigal: I sometimes set out to do something fun and turn it into work...most people do I think :)
    Threedee Shepherd: yer, and fun can be work--too many meanings in those simple words
    Threedee Shepherd: *yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm..and fun is so different from person to person
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: This is fun : )
    Threedee Shepherd: I wonder if it is SO different, and/or if there are common themes or elements
    Pila Mulligan: so is it some aspcet of being burdensome that takes the fun out of work?
    Pila Mulligan: doing something freely and being compelled to do it may make the difference between its being fun and work
    Threedee Shepherd: perhaps. When I look at videos of a "lineworker" in a factory, fun does not seem an apt description.
    Pila Mulligan: true
    Eliza Madrigal: absolutely, and yet there are people who even in a line can make fun of it
    Eliza Madrigal: out of it
    Pila Mulligan: maybe by adaptation it eventually becomes les buerdesome
    Threedee Shepherd: Here is a clear example: Being at PaB is fun. Posting the log of a session is work.
    Pila Mulligan: ahh, just the person to ask materialziong to theEast
    Pila Mulligan: what makes fun fun oh Pema?
    Pema Pera: hi everybody
    Eliza Madrigal: Pema/Puma, Hello
    Threedee Shepherd: hi
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pema Pera is puzzled
    Eliza Madrigal: For some, posting the log is fun...adding comments ...what you're incline to?
    Pila Mulligan: [19:41] Threedee Shepherd: this goes sideways into a conversation Ade and I started a bit ago. Why are thinds that are fun, fun?
    Pila Mulligan: what makes fun fun?
    Pila Mulligan: why is play not work?
    Pema Pera: (sorry, am showing SL to a friend and explaining what's going on)
    Pila Mulligan: is it fun?
    Threedee Shepherd: np
    Pema Pera: ((and how much fun we have here :-))
    Eliza Madrigal: well....the imposition of something can take away from fun of something...like "imposing" beauty...trying to "make" something beautiful rather than seeing beauty already there
    Pema Pera: perhaps not-doing is fun ?
    Eliza Madrigal: so yes...the "have to"
    Eliza Madrigal: Certainly
    Pila Mulligan: a child's play seems full of abandon
    Threedee Shepherd: child's play is actually serious work not seen by them as such--then comes school
    Pila Mulligan: so it is the perception that makes it work?
    Eliza Madrigal: And yet if you sit them down and say "Play" they often can't, until they forget that you told them to :)
    Pila Mulligan: or if you play with them :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I read a book years ago..."The Book of Learning and Forgetting"...was about
    Pema Pera: (sorry, leaving again -- part of an introductory tour of SL :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: how people learn as a result of following interests and networks...remember things forever, etc.
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pema
    Pema Pera: see you all next time!
    Pila Mulligan: greeting to Pema's fellows -- have a nice tour
    Pila Mulligan: bye
    Eliza Madrigal: ::waves:::
    Pema Pera: ty!
    Threedee Shepherd: Interesting, when 3-4 (now 5.5) my grandaughter would come overto me and ask "Wily0ou play with me?" NJo adult has ever done so, as I recall. although I have been invited to just go somewhere and "hang out"
    Pila Mulligan: yes, I've noticed that too, threedee -- when did we stop asking freinds to come over and play?
    Threedee Shepherd: wow, this keyboard makes lots of misteaks tonight;>
    Eliza Madrigal: : ) That's true...adults are hesitant to be "silly"
    Eliza Madrigal: I have a few friends who enjoy games and such...not too many
    Pila Mulligan: but then it is play a gasme, not just play :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah...sigh...true
    Pila Mulligan: maybe so-called adults have following interests and networks to the point where play is not part of the game
    Pila Mulligan: just plain play
    Eliza Madrigal: Always an objective to it, yes
    Threedee Shepherd: oh, when grandaughter is playing, she is pointedly doing "something"
    Pila Mulligan: yep, an intent or goal
    Eliza Madrigal: But then maybe we like and need that objective...layers
    Pila Mulligan: maybe you shouold ask her what makes fun fun Threedee
    Threedee Shepherd: good idea, I will
    Eliza Madrigal: : ) She'll know
    Pila Mulligan: I bet she has an answer :)
    Threedee Shepherd: she ALWAYS has an answer ;>
    Eliza Madrigal: : )
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: 'children are the voice of god' Sufi Sam
    Threedee Shepherd: I would go with "children are A voice of god"
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Threedee Shepherd: Well, folks, it's been *fun* and I need to go, so I'll end the log here.
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay Three...didn't see that it was after 11.
    Pila Mulligan: ok, thanks Threedee -- let us know what fun is, please
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Thanks..yes, we'll be waiting
    Eliza Madrigal: :D
    Threedee Shepherd: ok

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