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    I met Caledonia Heron in her cozy office, a big blue planet Neptune, tastefully furnished. I had spent many hours in PaB with Cal and I was eager to sit down with her and hear more about her story. I usually do not leave in our original chat but I loved Cal's comment. Thanks Cal :)

    I learned during this interview that Cal knew much about the pre-history of PaB and we spent a bit of time on this.

    Adams Rubble: Since I have explained everything, if you are ready to start I will get going :)
    Caledonia Heron: yes for sure, I hope I am ready
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: I am sure you'll be great. I am looking forward to it :)
    Caledonia Heron: dialing down smart alec brain section :)
    Adams Rubble: hehe

    I began by asking how Cal had met Pema and learn that Cal's experience bridges many world

    Caledonia Heron: gosh, I met Pema before I met him - in another virtual world; an Activeworld called Videoranch through Victoria and Nez,... they told me about some lectures there by Pema
    Caledonia Heron: that was fall 07 I think
    Caledonia Heron: then in Jan 08 I actually met him on a tour of the ISS one evening with Digiweaver and Ed Lu and Troy, a bunch of people really
    Adams Rubble: What is ISS?
    Caledonia Heron: ISS= International Space Station
    Caledonia Heron: we struck up a friendship, I was trying to be funny, he laughed, stuff like that :)
    Adams Rubble: Wow, I did not know you were in Videoranch
    Caledonia Heron: so we traded some one liners, hit it off and I got involved with QSL  - a meld of Qwaq and SL people trying out both of those virtual worlds
    Caledonia Heron: so I went to Qwaq for astronomy stuff and went to a few WoK things also
    Adams Rubble: This is the first time I heard of QSL
    Caledonia Heron: yeah, a group created for people bridging both worlds
    Caledonia Heron: that went on for a while and then some Qwaq people started coming to SL more, like Pema
    Adams Rubble: Were you in WoK too?
    Caledonia Heron: yes, I went a couple of times to WoK events in Qwaq
    Caledonia Heron: when Pema and I met he told me about WoK, at first I put my information science  spin on it, like ways of knowing information but it turns out it's a much bigger way of knowing :)
     Adams Rubble: please say more about WoK:)
     Caledonia Heron: lol, that phrase cracks me up... I see a professor with a pipe, scruffing his goatee offically; yes, can you please say more ... ha ha
    Adams Rubble: I'll try to refrain from funny questions. hehe
    Caledonia Heron: well, WoK was the perfect lead-in for the PaB. I was listening to Pema start trying out his ideas about pab in Feb, Mar 08 ... planting seeds, formulating the logic
    Adams Rubble: APAPB started there. Was that while you were there?
    Caledonia Heron: I don't remember the acronyms per se but the concepts were there, the acronyms came later I think when the discussions and group grew
    Adams Rubble: Who besides Stim, Pema, and Riddle and you among the later particpannts of PaB were in WoK?
    Caledonia Heron: I want to say Maxine, mostly I remember Pema and Stim plus Zenon, Davina, Bob M and a gal named Karen
    Adams Rubble: Do you think anything got lost going from WoK to PaB?
    Caledonia Heron: no, I don't think anything is or was lost, they are different formulations, groups of people comfortable in those environments (qwaq, sl) doing very similar sorts of things .... I personally gained from both although my qwaq experiences were limited compared to sl
    Adams Rubble: What were/are the advantages of Second Life for Play as Being?
    Caledonia Heron: as compared to qwaq or as a virtual world forum at large?
    Adams Rubble: I was thinking of QWAQ but if you want to answer it more broadly, that would be fine..maybe even wonderful :)
    Caledonia Heron: lol
    Caledonia Heron: lots of good reasons virtual worlds work for discussion groups; we can meet whenever, with whoever, say whatever, wherever we like ... :)
    Caledonia Heron: we have the veil of being anonymous if we like ... we share a lot of very personal things, ... things we might not share without knowing each other a very long time in real life
    Caledonia Heron: sharing deeply held personal beliefs and experiences is not easy for many people, maybe sl improves the chances of that :)
    Adams Rubble: You think SL is better than QWAQ for that?
    Caledonia Heron: they are two virtual worlds that are very different technically and visually ... for me Qwaq lacks the visual lushness available in sl so... for me, sl is the better venue ... however having typed that, Qwaq is very good at other things like sharing business data, applications and visualizations

    I moved on to Play as Being

    Adams Rubble: I understand that the 9 seconds is unique to PaB. What were your first impressions of the nine seconds?
    Caledonia Heron: let's see, when I first heard of it I got the "frequency not duration" thing right  away
     Caledonia Heron: trading frequency for duration works for me as I am so time-sliced
    Caledonia Heron: I had some experiences prior to PaB that were significantly Other, outside the  "regular" scope of daily experience
    Caledonia Heron: I was very interested to find out what other people had to say about their   experiences, how they described them, what that was like for them to compare to my own experience                                                                                                                      

    Caledonia Heron: so I got the 9sec idea - I wanted to see what was true for others, and could I replicate the experiences I had in any way that was comparable were some of my reasonings :)
    Adams Rubble: Has your experience of the nine seconds changed over time?
    Caledonia Heron: yes, it has changed over time
    Caledonia Heron: I have never been very disciplined with 9sec .... I know, ridiculous, but it has been hugely beneficial imo and has changed bit by bit over time
    Adams Rubble: I have never thought of you as undisciplined :)
    Caledonia Heron: LOL
    Adams Rubble: How has PaB affected your life?
    Caledonia Heron: I am disciplined about that :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Caledonia Heron: oh gosh
    Caledonia Heron: I am more tapped in to our shared experience.... still me but more us
    Caledonia Heron: does that make sense?
    Caledonia Heron: the "us" is more accessible
    Adams Rubble: It would be fine if you want to talk about that. I'll change the question to fit the answer :)
    Caledonia Heron: ah, I didn't type it right then.... what I mean is that pab has affected my life in that I am more aware, more tapped into the shared experience of people at the group level, I'm still a lot about me but there's a lot more going on that's about "us", the human us.
    Caledonia Heron: did that come through?
    Adams Rubble: ah, I see, thanks for clarifying
    Caledonia Heron: yeah, still clunky but more descriptive :)
    Caledonia Heron: things are smoother, sometimes without time, without self, it comes and goes :)
    Adams Rubble nods
    Caledonia Heron: I am more calm, less roller coaster-y
    Adams Rubble: When you talk about "us" are referring to "us" outside PaB too?
    Caledonia Heron: yes, the big us
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    Caledonia Heron: the all of us
    Caledonia Heron: living dead ancient newborn
    Adams Rubble: That is wonderful...I am still working on that one :)
    Adams Rubble: Oh what a great phrase
    Adams Rubble: I have been saying it as all the humans whoever lived or will live
    Caledonia Heron: yes, that us :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: How have you perceived all the changes on PaB over the year
    Caledonia Heron: I was thinking about that... how it started, the small group, the grappling to find the common vocabulary .... now we have acronyms and goc's and it's all wrapped up in a session timetable and notecards ... and yet with the small group of people I've come to know it's still very much the essence of what I recall it starting as ...
    Caledonia Heron: I might* know 10-15% of the guardians .... there are so many people now :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: You have touched on Being and Zeroith time in you answers. Would you care to say more about either? Either you current view or how your view has changed?
    Caledonia Heron: I had a little tiny taste of those things before PaB.... like, what the heck was that? ... :) and it happened a few times so I knew it was *something* but I didn't really know what
    Caledonia Heron: I never really studied any philosophy or religion or structured thing,... my knowledge comes from my direct experience
    Caledonia Heron: so the thing about pab - a way to access that kind of experience plus a discussion group has made "it" more know-able ... not like (hands on hips) I know this data, but more at your core, that you can truly know something is real and that everything is ok
    Caledonia Heron: does that make sense?
    Adams Rubble pondering
    Caledonia Heron: lol, uh-oh
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: Yes, got it
    Adams Rubble: What did I not ask that I should have asked?
    Caledonia Heron: mmm, who's better, stones or beatles?
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Adams Rubble: OK
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    Caledonia Heron: you know, the first day of pab I went to the teahouse I didn't know what to expect
    Caledonia Heron: I was a little nervous, I was still getting to know Pema but was curious
    Caledonia Heron: who knew we would be here today? :)
    Adams Rubble: yes, isn't that the truth
    Adams Rubble: I didn't meet Pema until the second week
    Caledonia Heron: lol, turns out to be a big truth :)
    Adams Rubble: of my attendance
    Caledonia Heron: yes, I remember the day I met you :)
    Adams Rubble: I was so confused then I am afraid I don't remember
    Adams Rubble: so many new people
    Caledonia Heron: it's ok :) you were involved with a play I believe
    Adams Rubble: a play?
    Caledonia Heron: or a play group
    Caledonia Heron: shakespeare?
    Adams Rubble: Oh, maybe I was wearing the Shakespeare tag :)
    Caledonia Heron: yes, that's it
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Adams Rubble: I haven;t gone to a single performance yet :)
    Adams Rubble: too busy with PaB
    Caledonia Heron: :) you know Prospero does a Shakespearean thing now and again, very fun :)
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Adams Rubble: I don't have time for that either :(
    Caledonia Heron: maybe the next go round
    Adams Rubble: Third Life :)
    Caledonia Heron: lol
    Caledonia Heron: I hear you
    Adams Rubble: Thanks again, I won't keep you.
    Caledonia Heron: it was fun :) thanks for including me :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: No way we could do it without you :)
    Caledonia Heron: and thanks for doing the project!
    Caledonia Heron: ha ha, sure ........ I'm a little grasshopper :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Caledonia Heron: bye :)
    Adams Rubble: bye and thanks :)

    Next: Genesis

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