Here is the text of a dialogue held by Piet Hut (in SL: Pema Pera) and Steven Tainer (in SL: Stim Morane), in Second Life on September 2, 2009.
P: Yesterday we talked about the possibility to start "bottom-up"
with phenomenology, and in that way to rediscover something like what
Buddhists have found, independently
P: In constrast to such an approach, Buddhism starts with an overall
view, and within that context then advocates forms of practice
that effectively start through working with phenomena
P: and Play as Being puts even more of an emphasis on a kind of
"ultimate" view, by mentioning Being right from the start
P: so when I compare the three, phenomenology is bottom-up, whereas
Buddhism and PaB are top-down
P: yet I also feel that PaB is bottom-up, more than, say, Buddhism,
in the sense that the view is far more open and not defined in any
specific way
P: Am I making sense so far?
S: perhaps enuf to continue ...
P: So for me PaB is full of delightful paradoxes . . . .
P: it has in common with science a kind of bottom-up mentality: start
where you find yourself, play with it, see what you can discover,
without a priori buying into any "ism", any religion or philosophy
P: and yet PaB also has in common with some of the most radical forms
of spiritual practice, like Zen and Dzogchen, the notion that
nothing needs to be done, that Being already IS, and that we can
celebrate, starting from there as a resource or Ground
P: Perhaps PaB is a kind of bridge between science and spirituality
in that way: the play of science, the IS of spirituality
P: So when we come back to wu-wei, including its subtler aspects, it
will be interesting to see how we can view wu-wei from both sides
P: from the phenomenology/science side and from the contemplative
side
P: How about starting with a description of what you called the more
subtle side of wu-wei?
S: I don't remember ... I don't have the full log in front of me.
P: let me find the quotes
P: Here it is:
P: [2009/08/31 8:37] S: But I mean, it's very different manifesting
wu-wei in rl than in sl, given the reduced set of cues people can
get about your own presence
[2009/08/31 8:37] P: yes, and yet a lot of it still carries over
to SL
[2009/08/31 8:38] P: as does a lot of other stuff, re: discussions
you had with Storm and Corvi during the retreat
[2009/08/31 8:38] S: well I had that in mind
[2009/08/31 8:38] S: But this is an extreme case, a greater challenge,
in some ways
[2009/08/31 8:39] S: wu-wei is by its very nature quite subtle
S: so that's all I said?
S: :)
S: sorry to send you off to find that
P: I then went into a segue of "what contains what" -- so it was my
fault :-)
S: well, nice of you to put it that way.
S: Anyhow, you want me to comment on this "subtle" wu-wei?
P: for starters, can you say a bit more about it?
S: I suppose there is a lot of material concerning how the term is
used in rituals, martial arts, painting, etc.
S: Perhaps there is some about how to live too ... i don't know.
S: The contemplative version is "subtle" simply because it concerns
more subtle mind dynamics than the usual ... it's basically an
expression of emptiness.
S: There isn't a lot to say about this, it's mostly something to
learn about directly thru practice.
P: yes, I can see that, of course; it has to be lived, and to be
discovered by trying it out
P: and to be recognized that way
S: yes
P: however, if we want to suggest wu-wei as a specific topic to be
investigated by the PaB community, we will have to find ways to
talk about it, or at least about the kind of practice that will
explore it.
At this point SL crashed, and it would take more than an hour to come back
up again, so we postponed the rest of our discussion till the next day.
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