2008.08.17 19:00 - Now is Timeless

I(Pia Iger, the guardian on call)  was 2 min late. Seems they were already talking about me?

stevenaia Michinaga: should be falling from the sky any moment
doug Sosa: good. it is a role i don't feel ready for.
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Pia
Pia Iger: Hi, Steve and Doug
doug Sosa: hi Pia :)
Pia Iger: what role are you talking about?
doug Sosa: of guardian taking responsibility for the session.
Pia Iger: not much responsibility at all:) just be here
doug Sosa: well, the record...
stevenaia Michinaga: I have only done 2 sessions aftera long abstention
Pia Iger: record is automatic if you set up right. Or you can just copy all from Local Chat box.
stevenaia Michinaga: one is not bad
doug Sosa: i come to the sessin as a world aprt. i don't yet have the organization to take a piece of it with me as something i need to do.
stevenaia Michinaga: `soon they will be recorded automaticalled
doug Sosa: then..
stevenaia Michinaga: and posted to the wiki I assume
doug Sosa: I might..
stevenaia Michinaga: the subtle hand of pema at work
doug Sosa: I am so grateful for all the work others are doing.
Pia Iger: if everyone does a little, it won't be too much work
stevenaia Michinaga: it is a remarkable assembledge of people
Pia Iger: yes, Steve
Pia Iger: I have not met this kind of group in RL.
doug Sosa: I went to a concert last night in a nearby redwood grove. Beautiful, but i wished the people were as attractive as here.
Pia Iger: hehe
Pia Iger: don't ppl all dressed up to concerts?
stevenaia Michinaga: I have met 5 guardians this week in RL, all amazing
tevenaia Michinaga: hello Avastu
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
doug Sosa: at the concert? No. too rural..
Pia Iger: ah, in what way, Steve.
Pia Iger: Hi, Avastu
Pia Iger: ok, Doug
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
doug Sosa: :)

Recent RL meetings brought new interest of comparison between RL and SL.

stevenaia Michinaga: dinner with Pema in Princeton with adams, Sylectra and genesis, with my wife joining is stevenaia Michinaga: and met freidrick in NYC on Saturday at a cafe stevenaia Michinaga: we go to the city monthly or so stevenaia Michinaga: talk and food is a wonderful thing doug Sosa: it is wonderful to meet some face to face.
Raises for me the question of the role of illusion and truth, the difficulty of accepting the surface doug Sosa: of the avatar, or being open to the person doug Sosa: behind, inside, o wherever they are.
doug Sosa: I find this raises lots of questions for me.
Pia Iger: I can guess there is quite difference or distance from RL person to SL avater
doug Sosa: One has to guess.
doug Sosa: then, is the avatar a hoped for self, an ideal self, or a real mask hiding even that intent?
stevenaia Michinaga: some transform their avitar to be what they wnat to be, others have their avitar transform them
doug Sosa: to what the avatar wants them to be. I can see it, even feel it. It has for me
doug Sosa: it is easier here to make contact with strangers, walk into the water, .. it has affected my RL actions.
Pia Iger: how? You tried walking to water in RL?^.^
doug Sosa: Oh I knew that would come! :) not quite, but i would be less timid about doing so. Actualy maybe yes. I live on the edge of a river and have been more casual about slipping in a bit.
Pia Iger: smiles
doug Sosa: or swimming in a friend's cold pool.
stevenaia Michinaga: many people work long and hard on their avatar, mine was a gift from someone so it is another's impression of what I am in avatar form
Pia Iger: I am satisfied that as long as my avatar is presentable, do not want to spend much time on her.
doug Sosa: i actually tried to be more me, but got stuck on the skin color which i can't seem to change.
doug Sosa: More than presentable..
Pia Iger: very cute, Doug, actually.
Pia Iger: 'snow White" sort of
stevenaia Michinaga: haha, i was asking someone who met you if you were that color in RL
doug Sosa: or dead.
Pia Iger: not dead at all.
doug Sosa: What did s(he) say?
stevenaia Michinaga: no
doug Sosa: relief.
Pia Iger: Avatar is a tool for me, as long as I can learn someting through it, it is fine. of cause, if it adds some fun, better.
doug Sosa: stirs pixel lust.
stevenaia Michinaga: I sometimes spend time at a cafe and there was this very large and not presentable woman who was there, everyone reacted strangely to her because she wasn't the typical SL "look" I think they would reacted better to a dragon than to a human in non-beautiful form
Pia Iger: how cruel is real life judgement we have on people!
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, actually she was very funny if you took the time
doug Sosa: I think from SL I am more tolerant, curious, in RL.
Pia Iger: I remember once Doug said everyone is beauty in his opion
doug Sosa: Much more likelty to treat the RL person as if they were an avatar, and the real person hidden, but ready for conversation.
stevenaia Michinaga: I am open and accepting here
stevenaia Michinaga: even to dragons
doug Sosa: does it afect your outside openness?
Peregrine Luik: hi i hope im not interrupting
Pia Iger: Hi, Peregrine, welcome
doug Sosa: not at all.
stevenaia Michinaga: does what affect it?
Peregrine Luik: ty :)
doug Sosa: Like adding a new instrument to the quartet.
doug Sosa: SL and the PaB.
stevenaia Michinaga: no, there is very little difference that I note between the two
stevenaia Michinaga: SL/Rl

A new visitor, Peregrine took the stage. I felt a bit relieved that both Doug and Steve were helping me out and giving introduction to him.

Peregrine Luik: mind if i listen for a bit?
doug Sosa: Please do. and speak when you want. been here before?
stevenaia Michinaga: have you been here before pere?
Peregrine Luik: no
stevenaia Michinaga: welcome
doug Sosa: we are a kind of meditation group..
Pia Iger:
http://playasbeing.wik.is/ is our website, if you want to know more.
doug Sosa: but we really do the meditations outside (for 9 seconds!), and then report here on our experience, and what ever else..
stevenaia Michinaga: and our conversations are posted on a blog, is that ok with you?
Peregrine Luik: thanks
Peregrine Luik: ok with me
Peregrine Luik: nice here
doug Sosa: Peregrine is such a beautiful name. Why was a falcon named that way?
stevenaia Michinaga: my PaB moments are not regular, but usually interesting when I do them Peregrine Luik: "wanderer"
doug Sosa: ah, pere.. but grine?
stevenaia Michinaga: you are still appearing as a cloud to me Peregrine Luik: can you make the cloud disappear?
Pia Iger: "Peregrine" (from the Latin peregrinus) is a given (first or Christian) name which means "wanderer". from wiki stevenaia Michinaga: it;s part of your arrival and my Rezz problems I was jsut complaining to SL about Peregrine Luik: they will tell you it's your fault doug Sosa: ah, genesis arrives.
doug Sosa: Gen, we have a new wanderer. Peregrine.
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Geeisis
stevenaia Michinaga: genesis
genesis Zhangsun: Hi!
Pia Iger: Hi, Gen
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Peregrine welcome
Peregrine Luik: thanks, friendly group !

It's the first time Genesis and I met in a same meeting.  We already heard(or read) so much about each other :)

Pia Iger: I've never been with Gen in the same session before.
genesis Zhangsun: this is true Pia
stevenaia Michinaga: how did you find this group Peregrine
Peregrine Luik: just wandering around
Pia Iger: but your story of eternity is very impressive.
Pia Iger: (was talking to Gen)
genesis Zhangsun: ty
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Peregrine Luik: nicer here than where i landed
Pia Iger: I really hope I can have that kind of clarity when I face the crucial choices in RL
genesis Zhangsun: your dish washing experience was quite nice too
Pia Iger: wow, that was such a tiny experience, mine
Pia Iger: I am surprised for your remembering

While Genesis and I were catching up, the others felt lost.

doug Sosa: Peregrine, sometimes some of us have no idea what others are talking about :)
genesis Zhangsun: oh yes it was a marvelous description because it was so real
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
genesis Zhangsun: no experience is tiny
Peregrine Luik: i can relate :)
genesis Zhangsun: sorry doug
genesis Zhangsun: Pia once talked about an experience of being
genesis Zhangsun: which occurred while she felt the water rushing over her hands while washing dishes
doug Sosa: washing dishes with you two would be very good.
Peregrine Luik: can you have an experience of not being?
genesis Zhangsun: good question Peregrine
genesis Zhangsun: what do u think?
doug Sosa: Water on the hand was what got Hellen Keller connected
genesis Zhangsun: ah yes nice doug :)
Pia Iger: Hellen Keller, a great example!
doug Sosa: not being...
doug Sosa: my first feeling is that there is no notbeing.
Pia Iger: no, she is a good example of Being, though she could not see, speak
Peregrine Luik: doug i thought so too
Pia Iger: She had marvelous vitality inside, even before Ann Sullivan started to teach her.
doug Sosa: Extremely vital person. She because a dedicated socialist ( the progessive of the time.)
doug Sosa: Peregrine, did ou change your mind about not being?
Peregrine Luik: no
doug Sosa: ou-you
doug Sosa: ah.
Pia Iger: (btw, Peregrine, The group meets for discussion four times per day, every day at 1 a.m., 7 a.m., 1 p.m., and 7 p.m. (SL time). welcome back anytime) Peregrine Luik: i think i better listen for a while doug Sosa: Ther are a numberof us, just a portion comes to each session, and you never know who.
doug Sosa: This week I've been with three new people, and they all talk to us very easily it seems.
Pia Iger: It is surprising the connection we can make right away with strangers here.
Peregrine Luik: SL seems to be like that

From not being, the focus turned to Peregrine's cloudy look.

genesis Zhangsun: Nice avatar Peregrine
Peregrine Luik: am i still a cloud?
stevenaia Michinaga: you are to me...still
genesis Zhangsun: yes it seems very fitting for Play as Being :)
Peregrine Luik: i look normal to me :)
Peregrine Luik: but fuzzy
genesis Zhangsun: hmmm ok I thought this was intentional
doug Sosa: a nice cloud, kind of a cross between a block of dry ice and a child inside a sleeping bag. :)
doug Sosa: And full of light!
stevenaia Michinaga: reminds me of a star trek episode
Peregrine Luik: may need to relog
genesis Zhangsun: or a butterfly in a cocoon
doug Sosa: o beautiful!

I had more to say about Hellen Keller, while Peregine turned into a human avatar.

Pia Iger: just want to make a connection here. Last Fri, Pema present the questions from Avastu
'Pema Pera:[2008/08/06 12:34] Avastu Maruti: #1 What if you were born with no senses - totally blind, deaf, no sense of smell, touch or taste. What would you know of the world? What would you take yourself to be?
Pema Pera: [2008/08/06 12:35] Avastu Maruti: #2 What if you had never learned a language? What thoughts can arise without words? Can you have a thought that isn't a word? What if you didn't have language?"
Pia Iger: At the time, I immediately thought of Hellen Keller.
genesis Zhangsun: ah yes nice connection Pia
genesis Zhangsun: great memory
doug Sosa: Peregine just changed!! sort of mock 1930"s elegance.
Peregrine Luik: am i no longer a cloud?
doug Sosa: no, just a real person like the rest of us
(chuckle)
doug Sosa: "chuckle"
Peregrine Luik: feels better somehow
stevenaia Michinaga: no you have form for me now, thank you

A period of silence here. I was in thought of how amazed I was when I read the first time that Hellen keller already had a strong character before her teacher came. She was already a 'stubborn' girl! But as usual, I had little idea of how to express my thoughts in text.
Not sure what other people were thinking.

Peregrine Luik: are you meditating?
Peregrine Luik: avastu looks like sleep meditation
Pia Iger: Peregrine, strictly say, we are not just practicing any traditional meditaion.
doug Sosa: we play here with the freedom that comes from practicing the 9 sec meditations..
Pia Iger: We are here to explore reality with some experiments.
Peregrine Luik: oh i thought you were meditation or i crashed
Peregrine Luik: *meditating
Pia Iger: oh. sometimes we are just being quiet, maybe thinking what to say.

Gen asked me a question, to which I did have something in my mind.

genesis Zhangsun: Pia have you experienced eternity?
Pia Iger: recently I start to recall some memory I had when I was child, sort of eternity.
Pia Iger: like one sunday afternoon, at home, I was reading some fascinating juvenile literature, with my mom nearby doing some housework. I have such clear memory of it, it feels like yesterfday, the harmony and peace I felt at that afternoon.
Pia Iger: I would connect it to eternity in some way.
stevenaia Michinaga: did it come back to you at any particular moment?
Pia Iger: maybe when I think of "what I am", or dropping identities,
Pia Iger: not particular any moment. I would say, the momery opens up after doing PaB for a while
doug Sosa: i must excuse myself so bye.
Pia Iger: Bye, Doug
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
genesis Zhangsun: bye doug!

I asked for response, which rolled into a dynamic discourse, and brought out Avastu's smiles.

Pia Iger: Does what I said ring any bell to you guys?
genesis Zhangsun: yes well indeed an experience of eternity is peaceful in some ways cozy like curling up as a child with one's mother around :)
genesis Zhangsun: at least it was for me
stevenaia Michinaga: my experiences w/PaB have never generated any early memories
Pia Iger: Actually I did not analyze the concept of eternity. When I recall that memory, I just immediately associate it with eternity.
Pia Iger: 'feel' it is eternity.
Peregrine Luik: do you use the word eternity in the normal way?
Pia Iger: I did not think of what is normal way? My heart just said it is eternity right away.
Peregrine Luik: timeless? outside of time? no feeling of past, present and future?
genesis Zhangsun: yes Peregrine
genesis Zhangsun: have u had any experiences with this?
Peregrine Luik: i just sat down here
Peregrine Luik: so no experience with your meditation practice
stevenaia Michinaga: love, joy, existence, all seem timeless
stevenaia Michinaga: they exist without time
Peregrine Luik: now is timeless
genesis Zhangsun: oh no problem Peregrine didn't mean to put u on the spot
Pia Iger: brilliant!
Avastu Maruti smiles
genesis Zhangsun: yes?
genesis Zhangsun: now?
Peregrine Luik: and now
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Peregrine Luik: Avastu smiled
Peregrine Luik: did you wake up, Avastu?
Avastu Maruti: from the dream?
genesis Zhangsun: are u sure you haven't been here before? ;)
Pia Iger: Can you expand more, Peregine about Now? (yes, Avastu rarely smiles, only when he heard something
brilliant:)
Peregrine Luik: that would be big waking up
Avastu Maruti: this appearance is the dream
Peregrine Luik: yes
Peregrine Luik: and this one here too
Avastu Maruti smiles
Peregrine Luik: you asked me to expand on now?
Pia Iger: yes, on "now is timeless" you said.
Peregrine Luik: yes
Peregrine Luik: the eternal Now
Peregrine Luik: when you are present Now, what is time?
Avastu Maruti: Who is present?
Peregrine Luik: a convention, my friend
Avastu Maruti smiles
Peregrine Luik: being present
Pia Iger: so what is past and future to you, Peregrine?
Peregrine Luik: pretty much the same as for you, i imagine
Peregrine Luik: sitting in the eternal now gives way to plans for golf
genesis Zhangsun: :)
genesis Zhangsun: how do you stay in the eternal now Peregrine?
Peregrine Luik: stay?
genesis Zhangsun: yes how do you integrate this into your life every moment
Peregrine Luik: who is not in the eternal now?
Avastu Maruti smiles widely
Peregrine Luik: integrating every moment would be big
genesis Zhangsun: Yes true but so many forget
Peregrine Luik: is that why you meditate?
genesis Zhangsun: including myself
genesis Zhangsun: yes maybe
genesis Zhangsun: a reminder
genesis Zhangsun: a gap
Peregrine Luik: to remember
genesis Zhangsun: yes
Pia Iger: so often I caught myself looking away from now...
Peregrine Luik: it's ok to look away from now, there are times for remembering past and planning for future
genesis Zhangsun: yes Pia I know the feeling
genesis Zhangsun: good point Peregrine
Pia Iger: I like Gen's question, how to integrate the sense of Now in daily life, while we still do memory of past and planning of future.
Pia Iger: that is essential question for me .
Peregrine Luik: just keep practicing i guess
Pia Iger: nods.
Pia Iger: and hope to see you again, Peregrine. I need to leave and take the log with me.
Pia Iger: see you all next time.
Peregrine Luik: thank you
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
genesis Zhangsun: bye Pia
Peregrine Luik: goodbye friends
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
genesis Zhangsun: nice to be in the same session
Pia Iger: I agree:)
genesis Zhangsun: I am out of here too,  nice to meet you
Peregrine Peregrine Luik: likewise
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
genesis Zhangsun: and a pleasure as always avastu :)
Avastu Maruti: good bye Gen
genesis Zhangsun: seems like u have a lot to contribute Peregrine genesis Zhangsun: I do hope u will come back :)
Pia Iger: bye, all.