2009.03.30 19:00 - Patterns

The Guardian for this meeting was Threedee Shepherd. The comments are by Threedee Shepherd.

Threedee Shepherd: Good evening Pema
Pema Pera: Hi Three!
Pema Pera: Hi Kira!
Threedee Shepherd: Purrr, Kira
Pema Pera: Have you been here before, Kira?
Kira Pidgeon: Yea Pema.. I'm Korii.
Pema Pera: ah!!
Pema Pera: hehehe
Kira Pidgeon: I'm also laying in cypress lap wile he hosts WWC
Pema Pera: thought yuo looked famliar :)
Threedee Shepherd: Outnumbered already, Pema
Pema Pera: not multiple personalities but multiple bodies
Kira Pidgeon: hi threedee
Kira Pidgeon: may be a little of both pema ;)
Kira Pidgeon: purrrr
Kira Pidgeon: white lion ^.^
Threedee Shepherd: decorated leopard ??
Kira Pidgeon: you mean my collar?
Threedee Shepherd: no your non-spots
Kira Pidgeon: hee hee
Kira Pidgeon: i like to call them muted
Threedee Shepherd: good camo in certain modern art museums :D
Kira Pidgeon: :)
Kira Pidgeon: hi doug
Threedee Shepherd: actually, your decor leads to what I wanted to bring up tonight, the overall concept of patterns
Threedee Shepherd: hi doug
doug Sosa: hi all.
Pema Pera: Hi Doug, good seeing yuo again!
doug Sosa: thankyou. yes.
Pema Pera: patterns, Three?
Threedee Shepherd: OK, I'll start with a question. How would you you start to define the concept PATTERN
Pema Pera: me? no idea, I generally don't try to define general things, rather work with them
Threedee Shepherd: ok, how do you recognize a pattern?, say as in, I perceive a pattern in all that activity?
Pema Pera: (for Doug: a new feature: 90 seconds silence in SL, as opposed to 9 sec stopping in RL)
Pema Pera: (Storm implemented the visuals of the fountain growing mysty, and the beginning and ending bell)
Pema Pera: (as well as the green text in the communicate window)
doug Sosa: interesting to think about pattern. 90 sec every 15 is a pattern.
Pema Pera: I just recognize patterns, Three, don't know how I do it
Threedee Shepherd: yes, a very regular one!
Threedee Shepherd: Pema, If I set up a random spatial collection, would you see a pattern
Pema Pera: perhaps
Threedee Shepherd: hi steve
Pema Pera: would depend on the exact details -- I can see patterns in clouds
Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: waves, Hi Doug, three, Pema, Kira
doug Sosa: :)
Threedee Shepherd: steve, I asked, what are "patterns", such as a pattern of behavior
stevenaia Michinaga: and so much more
doug Sosa: Oriental rugs feature "mistakes" to highten sense of livliness that comes with pattern.
Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm
Kira Pidgeon: hi steve
stevenaia Michinaga: interesting topic, hello Kira
Threedee Shepherd: There is another sense--as follows. I can watch a group of interacting individuals and try to figure out what each one is doing, and perhaps in response to what. An atomistic view. alternatively I can look to see if I can discern an overall pattern to what is going on.
stevenaia Michinaga: you named for the cafe, Kira?
Pema Pera: yes, Three
Threedee Shepherd: Interestingly, novices tend to start atomistically to recognize, whereas experts perceive thge patterns, based on intense experience
Pema Pera: yes, like playing chess for example
Threedee Shepherd: exactly!
Kira Pidgeon: no
Kira Pidgeon: i made this avitsr long befor i knew about kira cafee
Threedee Shepherd: patterns are somewhat like a higher level of perception
Pema Pera: great foresight, Kira!
stevenaia Michinaga: lol
doug Sosa: Humans attribute pattern to random events.
Threedee Shepherd: yes, the brain does that as a way of trying to "force" sense onto the chaos around us.
Kira Pidgeon: i think my kira is older then Pema's kira
Pema Pera: Pema's Kira just had its 12th birthday in RL
Threedee Shepherd: And if none is there the brain will often/usually ionvent one.
Pema Pera: but only half a year in SL
Kira Pidgeon: oh nm
Kira Pidgeon: ^.^
Kira Pidgeon: i thoughtiut wa sjsut ayear.. or may be a year in SL.
Pema Pera: PaB started a year ago, on April 1.
Pema Pera: Kira came into SL half a year later
Kira Pidgeon: ah.
Pema Pera: Yes, Three, we understand the world through categories
Pema Pera: what you call patterns, perhaps?
Kira Pidgeon: my birthday is the 7th.
Pema Pera: I never see something really unique
Pema Pera: I see a table or a chair
Pema Pera: or a non-specific "thing" but still a thing
Pema Pera: never a "no-idea-at-all" object
Pema Pera: always a member of a categorie
Pema Pera: normally speaking
Pema Pera: I'm curious to see what Threeded is crafting here :)
Pema Pera: but I also am getting quite sleepy
Pema Pera: haven't slept much the last few days
Threedee Shepherd: other than the fact that the surface is bounded, do you discern a pattern in it's "design"
Pema Pera: so I think I'll return to a RL bed . . . .
stevenaia Michinaga: understandable
Pema Pera: sure, Threedee
Pema Pera: lines and such
Threedee Shepherd: do you think that is how I made it
Pema Pera: it doesn't look completely random to me
Pema Pera: but we can easily be fooled
Threedee Shepherd: It is a close to a 2D random noise figure as can be displayed in SL, actually
Pema Pera: yes, the eye has evolved to recognize features
Pema Pera: for good reasons, with tigers around for example, hehehe
Threedee Shepherd: I made and use it to "tile" surfaces when I want them to not look at all repeating
Pema Pera: and lions
Threedee Shepherd: Did the eye so eveolve, or the /eye/brain
Threedee Shepherd: *evolve
Pema Pera: well, I'm happy to pick up the topic again next time!
Threedee Shepherd: goodnight Pema
Pema Pera: maybe I'll first have some random dreams :)
Pema Pera: be well, y'all !
stevenaia Michinaga: write them down
Pema Pera: randomly?
Threedee Shepherd: using random numbers as symbols, of course
Pema Pera: (some dreams do repeat!)
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: bfn!
Threedee Shepherd: Interestingly, a random surface such as that looks less random to the typical viewer than does a pseudo random one.
stevenaia Michinaga: Doud, I sent you an email a few weks ago, did you happen to see it?
Threedee Shepherd: that's because clumps happen in a random surface, but people trying to "make" random surfaces tend not to point points very close together.
Threedee Shepherd: *put points
Threedee Shepherd: In a throw or a "perfect" coin a million times, runs of 100 heads will occur. Locally that would look very non-random
Threedee Shepherd: I bring this up because I am interested in the relationships between pattern (and pattern making) and the perception of relaity
stevenaia Michinaga: bit if they occure in a row
Threedee Shepherd: *reality
stevenaia Michinaga: reality is a pattern? Three
Threedee Shepherd: No, tenuous patterns (or even more stable ones) emerge out of, OR become a local reality
Threedee Shepherd: I suggest
stevenaia Michinaga: is reality a perception or what "is" or either?
stevenaia Michinaga: what was that quote, abotu it's what;s left when you stop beliveing?
Threedee Shepherd: I am avoiding that explicit question--tonight--by approaching the perception of pattern as a way of THEN exploring "reality"
stevenaia Michinaga: is a pattern a pattern if it not perceived?
stevenaia Michinaga: are we substtuting patter for "reality"
Threedee Shepherd: no, we are saying that there seams to be value in patterns as a way of conceptualizing perception, and seeing where that leads
Threedee Shepherd: *seems although seams might fit too
stevenaia Michinaga: lol
stevenaia Michinaga: can you give me an example of it's value
stevenaia Michinaga: to you
stevenaia Michinaga: you can see the groups people belong to
stevenaia Michinaga: opps, wrong window
Threedee Shepherd: steve, patterns and you aia-ness are highly related, are they not
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, but I was looking for your "value in patterns as a way of conceptualizing perception"
Threedee Shepherd: are football running around aimlessly, or is their a pattern to their play. That pattern suggests something besides running around is going on. That then leads to looking at the scene differently and focusing perception
Threedee Shepherd: *football players
Threedee Shepherd: *there
Threedee Shepherd: So, I am suggesting that "perception" do not "just happen"
stevenaia Michinaga: they are constructed
Threedee Shepherd: and that patterns are a major part of perceiving, which thus already structures/skews reality
stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, an interesting begining
Threedee Shepherd: g'nite
stevenaia Michinaga: night Kira
Threedee Shepherd: Well, I guess tonight's PaB pattern might be names "Tentative beginnings, maybe....."
Threedee Shepherd: bye all